---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Siebel Response-Last One-Yeast Intro-Tobias/Forbes ("Rob Moline")
  RE:Cheap but good pH meter? ("Parker Dutro")
  Re: pump speed/mag drive ("the freeman's")
  re:Mini Kegs ("Jim Yeagley")
  Methanol: why am I not worried? ("Groenigen,  J.W. van")
  Chinese wok burners (David Harsh)
  Re: Basic questions from a newbie (Kelly Grigg)
  widget (Alan Meeker)
  Minikegs ("Dan Listermann")
  hefeweissen (Alan Meeker)
  Re: Saccharification: 1 step or 2? (Jeff Renner)
  Where to find good brew in Dallas/Plano area? ("Tray Bourgoyne")
  Drinking in San Diego (Roger & Roxy Whyman)


*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 00:17:41 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: Siebel Response-Last One-Yeast Intro-Tobias/Forbes


From: "Mike Kilian"
Subject: Seibel Week
I there a preferred method for introducing yeast into the cooled wort? Is it
preferable to pitch the whole mass into the fermentor or introduce
it slowly inline? If it is introduced inline, would the process work better
closer or further downline from the fermentor? Thanks for this great
opportunity!
Mike Kilian

Forbes: I think anything that avoids over-stressing the yeast is probably
best. When we do lager fermentations we normally pitch the yeast into room
temp wort then start cooling the wort to 10C.
This allows a better attemperation of the yeast/wort rather than throwing it
in at 10C and let it get on with it. I have no real data to back up the off
flavour part but lag phase is normally shorter when the yeast/wort is cooled
together rather than yeast pitched into cool wort.
If the wort is already cooled then slowly inline might be a good
alternative. Under good conditions we have removed some of the cool wort and
added it slowly to the yeast before then pitching the yeast into the wort.
Of course if your yeast is coming from the fridge then introducing it to the
cold wort should be much simpler.

Tobias: In addition to Forbes........
In my opinion the best way to pitch lager yeast is to pitch  at cold
temperatures. That means the yeast should be adapted to cold temperatures
previous to pitching to avoid stress.  The temperature difference should be
not greater than 10C. In the ideal case the yeast has the same temperature
as the wort.

If you are using crop yeast, it is already refrigerated during storage or if
you repitch direct the yeast is at fermentation/lagering temperature.

If you propagate your own yeast, it would be best to cool the yeast down to
fermentation temperature one day before pitching.

Dry Yeast is an exception. It is recommended to rehydrate the yeast at
higher temperatures and pitch it soon after rehydration. So in this case the
yeast has to be used at higher temperatures. The first option is to pitch
the yeast into the wort and cool both down to fermentation temperature. This
has to be done carefully and gradually to avoid to stress/shock the yeast.
This might not always be possible depending on your cooling equipment. The
second option is to use wort already at fermentation temperature to
gradually cool down the yeast. This should be done in steps no greater than
10C.

The advantage of pitching cold is that it is easier to handle and less
risky. A good lager yeast pitched at cold temperature should start
fermenting after 12-18 hours. If you cool your yeast with the wort there is
a chance that you do it too fast, which results in long lag-phase, or you do
it too slow, which can result in undesirable flavours.

When to start cooling, if you pitch at high temperatures? As soon as
possible but gradually.

To introduce the yeast slowly inline is resulting in a better mixing of wort
and yeast than just dumping the yeast into the fermenter. A common practice
with fermenters that hold more than one brew is to introduce the whole
amount of yeast inline with the first brew and than add the following brews
(drauflassen). The inline introduction of the yeast can be done close to the
fermenter.

Sorry for the tardiness of this reply it may have been appeared partially
in one of the other responses but perhaps not clearly.



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 23:56:21 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: RE:Cheap but good pH meter?

Mike,
Good call on the need for pH consistancy.  I just made the same decision to
purchase test strips and incorporate pH monitering into my process.  A lot
of guys told me not to worry about my pH, that the water in my area was
probably fine.  Well, my beers are good but I can't justify ignoring the
issue on the supposition of other brewers.  And yes, I also found the only
consistent meters to be far out of my hobby-budget.  Hope you and I both
experience positive results, getting smrater in the meantime!
Cheers,
Parker Dutro
P-town OR




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 07:05:40 -0500
From: "the freeman's" <potsus at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: pump speed/mag drive

Controlling the pump speed of a mag drive is not the way to go, IMHO.
These pumps should run at the maximum rpm they are designed for at all
times.  Flow control should be undertaken by throttling the OUTPUT side
of the pump with a valve.

Bill Freeman aka Elder Rat
K P Brewery - home of "the perfesser"
Birmingham, AL



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 07:58:49 -0400
From: "Jim Yeagley" <jyeag at core.com>
Subject: re:Mini Kegs

Hi Bill (and group)

New poster here.

I have a set of the mini-kegs, but only used them until the included
cartridges were used up.  They tended to empty a cartridge in 1 or 2 days of
sitting in the fridge, which was a pain since you can't just run out to
Kmart to pick up another box of the 12 grammers.  Leaky once they're tapped,
first complaint.

Filling them is MUCH easier than bottling, hands down.

Getting the #$&*%$ bungs in took all my weight, and some well-placed
cursing.  Second complaint.

I now have a corny setup and couldn't be happier.

Jim Yeagley



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 15:23:20 +0200
From: "Groenigen, J.W. van" <J.W.vanGroenigen at Alterra.wag-ur.nl>
Subject: Methanol: why am I not worried?

Hi all,

a friend of mine asked me recently if I wasn't worried about methanol in my
home-brewed beer. Actually, I was not, for the intellectually very
unsatisfying reason that I was never warned by either the brewing literature
or on-line homebrew forums. I know that methanol is poisonous, and I have
been warned never to drink local homebrewed stuff in developing countries
where I worked, since people there sometimes actually get blind by methanol.
I think this was not because they added methanol, but because it was
produced during the fermentation process. So why isn't this a problem with
our homebrewed beer? Marc Sedam suggested that wild yeasts and high
fermentation temps might be to blame, but why aren't our Belgian friends all
blind then?

Thanks for any light on this subject!

Jan Willem van Groenigen
Wageningen, the Netherlands, 
some 150 km north of the REAL center of the brewing universe: Brasserie
D'Achouffe in the Ardennes.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 09:33:38 -0400
From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
Subject: Chinese wok burners

B Morey <bernardmorey at optushome.com.au> asks:
> I notice Chinese supermarkets sell a variety of LPG burners for
> barbeque gas -- they're quite cheap and some are quite hefty (double
> or triple circle of flame). They're intended for larger scale rice
> cooking or woks.  Why not consider one of those?

I have a friend that brews over wok burners at his family's chinese
restaurant.  They do a great job.  While relatively cheap, he told me
that they are rather brittle and don't last forever - the ones at the
restaurant need to be replaced about once a year, but that's with a lot
more use than we would probably put it through.  

I just noticed the ".au" in your e-mail address - I'm assuming that
barbecue gas is methane and not propane...  If its propane, I have no
standing to address the burners and their utility.

Dave Harsh
Bloatarian Brewing League			Cincinnati, OH

P.S.  Is Beer and Sweat on your calendar?



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 08:51:48 -0500
From: Kelly Grigg <kgrigg at diamonddata.com>
Subject: Re: Basic questions from a newbie

I'll second this suggestion. Down here in New Orleans, we tend to boil
a lot of crawfish and crabs...and use the large propane burners for this.
So, we also use them for our large batches of beer...works like a charm, fast,
and cheap...

My $0.02,

Kelly

On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 12:14:24AM -0400, after pounding the keys randomly, 
B Morey came up with....
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 15:33:15 +1000
> From: "B Morey" <bernardmorey at optushome.com.au>
> Subject: Re: Basic questions from a newbie
<snip>
> 
> I notice Chinese supermarkets sell a variety of LPG burners for
> barbeque gas -- they're quite cheap and some are quite hefty (double
> or triple circle of flame). They're intended for larger scale rice
> cooking or woks.  Why not consider one of those?
> 
> 


- ------------------

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak.

- ------------------


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 09:57:14 -0400
From: Alan Meeker <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: widget

Jake Isaacs relays a nice description of the Guinness widget:

"...This system comes to an
equilibruim, until the cap is popped.  Now, the nitrogen, which is at high
pressure, comes gushing out since it is exposed to atmospheric pressure.
This results in a cascade effect in the bottle."

Sounds good, but then:

"Everytime the bottle is
lifted to the consumer's mouth (i.e. inverted), residual N2 in the widget is
released through the tiny hole in the bottom, resulting in the fresh draught
mouthfeel."

Hmmm, what's keeping this "residual nitrogen" in the widget. Why didn't it
come out with the rest when the cap was popped and the pressure relieved?

 -Alan Meeker



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:25:11 -0400
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Minikegs

 Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> asks about minikegs.  I make the Philtap.

<I like to do English pale ales, IPA's and Mild
<Ales.  These seem ideal for these styles if
<done correctly.  And they fit in a regular
<fridge.

Just my style!

<What is the correct amount of priming for these?

I prime with 1.5 tbs of corn sugar per keg right down the hole at filling.
There is no real need to boil the sugar for these kegs.  The sugar should be
clean and each keg is getting a controlled amount of sugar.

<How easily do they bulge or get damaged by
<over-carbonation?  That seems to be the number one
<complaint I've seen.

<I also picked up 4 of the Phil's Relief Bungs for
<these. Anybody used these, had any luck?

Your "Phil's Relieph Bungs" will totally prevent the kegs from bulging.
They are designed to vent at about 30 psi and bleed off to about 20 psi.  It
takes about 60 psi to bulge a keg.

<Do these take in air once tapped, or is the air
<totally replaced by the CO2 cartridge?

The only air exposure that may be seen is the air that is trapped inside the
dip tube.  This is minimal and does not seem to effect the flavor.

 <How long can an untapped 5 liter minikeg be stored,
<refrigerated or otherwise?

They can be stored as long as any bottle conditioned beer can.

< How long is a 5 liter mini keg good once tapped?

I have had minikegs tapped for months on end with no noticeable problems.

As an interesting aside, I have been using the Philtap on three liter pop
bottles and round one gallon juice jugs a bit lately.  All that is needed to
use the tap is to drill a 7/8" hole in the caps with a spade bit or hole saw
and install a minikeg bung.  They work just like minikegs.  I prime the
three liters with one Tbs of corn sugar and 1.5 for the gallon  jugs.  The
gallon jugs need extra sugar to allow for vertical expansion due to pressure
build up.  I buy the three liters full of pop for a buck and the gallon
juice jugs with orange drink cost less than $2.

Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com






Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 10:26:00 -0400
From: Alan Meeker <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: hefeweissen

Tom asks about remaning viable yeast for priming his batch that got a tad
bit warm during fermentation:

Tom, you will probably have plenty of viable yeast still in suspension for
bottle conditioning/carbonation. While 85 degrees is pretty high, it
probably didn't result in too much yeast killing, unless these temperatures
persisted for several days, or you were much warmer than this. Even then,
I'd expect plenty of live yeast left for bottling purposes. Remember, the
/optimal/ growth temperature for typical S. cerevisiae ale strains is around
30 deg C (86 deg F). Most brewers shun such high temperatures, however, as
the changes in yeast physiology in this range results in the formation of
higher levels of esters and fusel alcohols. There are exceptions to this,
notably many Belgian yeasts are often run at elevated temperatures because
these flavor elements are usually desirable in Belgian beers. Likewise,
elevated temps are also often employed in brewing the Bavarian Weiss style
to encourage the formation of the esters that in large part, define this
beer's flavor profile. One caveat is that elevated temperatures aggravate
the toxic effects of ethanol, thus, for high (>1.060) or very high (>1.080)
gravity beer it is possible that you could get higher than anticipated
levels of cell killing.

All in all, I'd say you're good to go. If you can easily generate a small
yeast starter for use as addition for bottling yeast this wouldn't hurt
anything either.

Hope this was helpful

Alan Meeker
Lazy Eight Nanobrewery
"Where the possibilities are infinite"



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 08:35:04 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Saccharification: 1 step or 2?

"Paul Stutzman" <Paul.Stutzman at airborne.com> writes:

>I've noticed that some brewers use 2 rests in the Saccharification
>range - one rest in the mid to high 140's (F), and another in the
>high 150's.  Most recently I read about this technique when
>brewing a CAP.  Is this method only used when cereal is added to
>the mash?  Is there any benefit to employing a similar mash
>schedule when brewing all malt beers?

Here's a quick answer.  More details available if wanted.

A mid 140's F rest seems to produce maximum fermentables, which makes 
a good, crisp, dry lager (IMO), and the upper 150's rest finishes up 
the conversion and, according to the late George Fix (I'm sure he'd 
have hated to think of himself as being referred to as such) enhances 
foam stand as well (check the archives).  It is my SOP with both CAPs 
and all-malt lagers of all sorts.  I like 75-80% apparent 
attenuation, especially in a CAP.  But it also works well in maltier 
brews such as Vienna and Dunkel.

I believe that this is more or less what Anheuser-Busch uses.  At 
least, that's what I took away from the MCAB-2 tour of their pilot 
brewery.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:49:42 -0500
From: "Tray Bourgoyne" <tray at netdoor.com>
Subject: Where to find good brew in Dallas/Plano area?

Hello all,

I will be working in the Plano, Tx area for the next 6-8 weeks. Where can I
find good brew?

Thanks!

Tray



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 12:24:29 -0600
From: Roger & Roxy Whyman <rwhyman at mho.com>
Subject: Drinking in San Diego

Hello all,
I'll be going to San Diego June 20 - 23rd. What are the can't miss brew 
pubs and/or tap houses.
Maybe a home brewing event?
Thanks,
Roger Whyman
Parker, CO




Return to table of contents

---