HOMEBREW Digest #3963 Fri 14 June 2002

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  Re: Adding Water After Fermentation ("Steve Alexander")
  NHC 2002 (blutick)
  beer descriptions ("Dave Sapsis")
  * * * HBD SLAMDOWN! is ON For NHC Dallas! * * * (mohrstrom)
  Change in hotels again ("Jim")
  Conical Height Woes (Richard Foote)
  RE:  Adding water after fermentation (KC Sare)
  Re: beer descriptions (Pat Babcock)
  AHA National Homebrewers Conference ("AOB Moderator")
  C?CA ("Drew Avis")
  Hop growing question (Bill Wible)
  RE: NHC Hotel Change ("Sweeney, David")
  Re: AHA in Dallas-moving again but still no need to worry!!! ("Dan Dewberry")
  Good brew in the Big Easy ("Ed Dorn")
  blue rhino propane exchange ("Laura Barrowman")
  Weihenstephan & Wissenschaftliche (Jeff Renner)
  Orlando Beer Scene - the Real Story (Don Lake)
  Blow off (John Maylone)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 04:16:42 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Adding Water After Fermentation I'm with JeffR re the dilution of beer post fermentation, but KC Sare (Jones?) from Heriot-Watt posted all the practical information re diluting water. The water should be soft (distilled is great) O2 free and carbonated. pH should also be observed. Producing the hi-grav wort may involve either an extract addition or mashing more grist and sparging less. Of course you have to calculate IBUs needed in the final beer, multiply to figure IBUs in the concentrated beer, then chose a formula to get those. The hardest part of high gravity brewing is (I think) fermenting a brew with a flavor profile that will withstand dilution. Fermenting hi-grav beers is likely to show up as increased fusels and esters. You absolutely should pitch more yeast (proportional to the gravity increase) and also add proportionally more oxygen early in the fermentation to support the larger pitching. There are a long list of other things that you might try to hold the fusels and esters in check. Narziss has suggested reducing hi-grav wort pH to 4.9 to assist the yeast and also add around 0.15ppm of zinc. I agree with Jeff's suggestion to keep the fermentation cool, high temps always increase fusels & esters. [I understand Dean Fikar is presenting at the AHA NHC in Texas this month on the topic of controlling these despite high temps - should be interesting]. Yeast selection may be the most effective means of control - selecting a yeast with a profile of lower fusels & esters. There are also a lot more exotic techniques that are probably unnecessary when making a 16P wort for dilution to 12P, but your tongue will tell you. One other catch - fermenting 15+P wort takes a toll on the yeast so you really shouldn't reuse yeast after the ordeal without regrowing these. I think I'd find $16 for an additional carboy fermenter rather than deal with the more difficult fermentation, the careful dilution and the loss of the resulting yeast - but that's me. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 06:52:34 -0500 From: blutick at juno.com Subject: NHC 2002 There have been several posts in the digest regarding the hotel accommodations for the upcoming AHA National Homebrew Conference in Irving, Texas. Unfortunately, the situation has been fluid and has changed again. The event is now planned to take place at the Dallas Marriot in Las Colinas. I hope that this plan sticks. You can read about it for yourself at Please accept our apologies for the confusion. Jim Layton Judge Coordinator, NHC 2002 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 05:15:51 -0700 From: "Dave Sapsis" <dsapsis at earthlink.net> Subject: beer descriptions Here's an excerpt from a piece I wrote on some beers I had in Barcelona last fall: Dark Lager - Purkmistr. This was somewhat different than any beer I have previously encountered. It was very rich and toasty in the nose - some toasted light cereal-like graininess mixed with strong, faintly burnt caramel tones above a backdrop of sweet, dark candy. The toastiness was not like the typical Munich malt toastiness of Fests and Bocks, but somewhat lighter yet richer, with a toffee-like sweet angle. The rich malt-toast carried into the early palate flavor, followed by a rich, sweet, light-brown molasses flavor. There were only traces (and significantly less presence than the Damm negra) of chocolate tones, and the mid-palate was round, fat, and syrupy. The maltiness was somewhat unlike anything I had ever had before, in that the toastiness and sugary-molasses notes combined to make a very rich caramel middle, not unlike Bract's dark caramel chews, but with the two combining features still as easily distinct elements. Overall the beer finished well past the off-dry point on the sweetness spectrum, coating the mouth with a medium-brown, rummy and toasty sweetness with a caramel back. This beer was eminently rich. It was a bit too much sweetness for me given the mood I was in, but was a beer of strong, intriguing complexity. It seems to me to form just one of many vertices of beer hyperspace that one could view as black lagerdome. - --dave sapsis, sacramento Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:34:14 -0400 From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com Subject: * * * HBD SLAMDOWN! is ON For NHC Dallas! * * * Troy Hager laments: >>> Just yesterday I wrote a note Jeff Renner lamenting that the HBD seems to have lost some of its spark for me. It seems that many of the old voices are not around much any more, most topics have been discussed and rediscussed ad nausea, and then with all the fighting, name calling, "I said this, no you said that" that has been going on, I feel our little community needs something to bring it all together again. <<< Troy, we have a means of settling this. The HBD SLAMDOWN! is just the place to settle these long-term, on-going debates. Originally conceived as a fund-raiser for the HBD server fund, we have been forced to repeatedly cancel the event, as the rancor always seems to die off before the NHC. Let's see if we can keep it stoked and hot this time, OK? Now is the time to nominate the contenders. Seating will be limited, and ring-side boxes will be sold at a premium. After all, it's for a great cause! Mark in Kalamazoo (alright, it's Indy, but I can dream ...) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 07:39:29 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: "Jim" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> Subject: Change in hotels again Oops! The AHA National Conference has changed hotels once again. No longer at the Wilson World, no longer at the Holiday Inn Select, but now at the Dallas Marriott Las Colinas. Getting to sound more and more like a Texas Chili Cook-off. Bring your motor homes, campers and tents and we will set up in a Wall-Mart parking lot. No mater where we will be on the 20th of June hope to see you there. Jim Bermingham Millsap, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:49:29 -0400 From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com> Subject: Conical Height Woes Don writes: >I would really like to have a conical fermentator. Unfortunately, this >one is too tall for my needs in a chest freezer. I need something >29inches or less which I have yet to find. A member of our club got one of the cc's from Beer, Beer and More Beer. He contacted them by phone in advance of placing an order to see if they'd be willing to do a custon cc for him. He went with the 12.2 gal. model and had them make the support legs in two sections (one fitting inside the other). This gives him the option of removing the bottom section so that he is able to get it to fit in his fridge. Not sure of the height, but you could call B3 to see what they might be able to do for you. http://www.morebeer.com/ Hope this helps. Rick ("I'm Going to Disney World!") Foote Whistle Pig Brewing Murrayville, GA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 06:04:37 -0700 (PDT) From: KC Sare <beerbeer95648 at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Adding water after fermentation Besides the ingress of O2 into your beer, you may notice an increase of esters (namely ethyl acetate and iso-amyl acetate). Research suggests that by altering the maltose:glucose ratio of the wort, the ester levels can be somewhat controlled in high gravity situations. This is especially evident with the use of syrups, where very high maltose syrup shows a 25% reduction in esters over that of glucose syrup. However, this is not usually relevant to home brewers, due to the low availabity and use of such syrups. You may also notice a decrease in head retention. This is normally thought to be caused by proteolytic enzymes (Proteinase A) which are released by the yeast due to the increase of various stresses imposed due to the higher gravity fermentations. Additionally, it is thought that some hydrophobic polypeptides are lost due to excessive foaming during higher gravity fermentations(adhere to the fermenter). Also re-pitching can be problematic with yeast harvested from a high gravity fermentation. KC Sare Heriot-Watt Edinburgh Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:57:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Re: beer descriptions On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, "Dave Sapsis" <dsapsis at earthlink.net> of beer descriptions: > Here's an excerpt from a piece I wrote on some beers I had in Barcelona last > fall: > > Dark Lager - Purkmistr. This was somewhat different than > any beer I have previously encountered. It was very rich > and toasty in the nose - some... That is an excellent description. With the exception of the Damm brew, the reader at least has access to all of the sensory descriptors you provide, and should be able to build a "model" for the beer's profile in their mind. (This is FAR better than the attempts of description our "friend" has made...). More! I want more of this! - -- - God bless America! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock [18, 92.1] Rennerian "I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle" - Arlo Guthrie Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:45:11 -0600 From: "AOB Moderator" <moderator at aob.org> Subject: AHA National Homebrewers Conference Association of Brewers presents the AHA National Homebrewers Conference June 20-22, 2002 Two weeks before the Conference commencement, Wilson World Hotel, Irving TX, unexpectedly closed it's doors for renovations. The AHA staff and local Texas committee have been working very hard to find another location, close by, that is suitable for the needs of the National Homebrewers Conference and 2nd Round Judging of the National Homebrew Competition. The new location of the 2002 AHA National Homebrewers Conference is: Dallas Marriott Las Colinas 223 West Las Colinas Blvd Irving, TX 75039 972-831-0000 http://www.marriotthotels.com/dpp/PropertyPage.asp?MarshaCode=DALCL (copy and paste this link) The Dallas Marriott Las Colinas will honor all hotel reservations previously made at the Wilson World Hotel. If you have made reservations already with Wilson World, the AHA will ensure your reservation is transferred to the new site. The $59 room rate will only be honored until June 19, so if you have not reserved a room - do so today! Please remember to mention the conference when you register your room. Should you need car rental service in Irving, please check out this link: https://www.avis.com/AvisWeb/html/meetings/webpage.html?1446, Avis has offered special rates; so don't forget to mention you are with the AHA National Homebrewers Conference. Also, if you are looking for a shuttle from Dallas/Fort Worth Airport to Dallas Marriott Las Colinas, contact Super Shuttle at 1-817-329-2000. If you have any questions regarding the event, please check www.beertown.org for updates or call the Association of Brewers, 888-U-CAN-BREW. Sincerely, Kate Porter 2002 HBC Event Registrar AHA Administrator kate at aob.org 303-447-0816 x 123 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:25:32 -0400 From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com> Subject: C?CA Brewers, in today's HBD I again see the acronym CACA, or Classic American Cream Ale - an unfortunate term that seems to be gaining currency in these parts. Now, I'm no beer historian but I am a wee bit of a nationalist, and would like to carve out a bit of Canadian territory on the beer style map, or at least claim that territory back from our encroaching neighbours. Perhaps a real beer historian has better information, but I always had heard that the style and name "cream ale" was a Canadian invention - first brewed by the Sleeman Brewing company in Guelph, Ontario. The brewery was founded in 1851 (Sleeman had been brewing w/ others since 1834), and their cream ale was their flagship brew by the turn of the century. (This is a synopsis lifted from sleeman.com). >From the Genesee web site, it appears that their cream ale didn't show up until the 1960's. I can't seem to find an introduction date for "Little Kings" (the only other commercial cream ale mentioned by the BJCP) - but I don't think it predates this century. So I make the humble request that we refer to Canada's only truly native style as the Classic Canadian Cream Ale, or CCCA. Cheers! Drew Avis ~ http://www.strangebrew.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:49:18 -0400 From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> Subject: Hop growing question This is my second year growing hops. I have a Perle, a Cascade, and a Nugget. They are growing Philadelphia, or a suburb of Phila called Downingtown. It's out near Victory Brewing Company, for those of you fortunate enough to know about them and to have tried their beer! These plants must really love where they are. At this point, the Perle are the most robust and biggest vine. The vine is over 14 feet high, and actually has fully formed cones on it already. The Nugget and Cascade are a foot or two shorter, and the vines seem thinner and just not as hardy. >From what I've read, Perle is an early bloomer, or an early harvest. When do you take down the cones? How do you know when they're ready? Again, this is my second year growing hops, and I got about zero harvest from these plants last year, being the first year they were grown from little tiny rhizomes. Thanks. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:38:28 -0500 From: "Sweeney, David" <David at studentlife.tamu.edu> Subject: RE: NHC Hotel Change Dan Dewberry writes: >>>The Wilson World Hotel is being closed for renovations but all the hotel rooms & the whole conference has been moved to the Holiday Inn Select DFW/South Airport Hotel. Check it out: http://hbd.org/nhc2002/hotel.htm <<< I received email confirmation of my registration today. The new hotel is NOT the Holiday Inn Select, but rather the Dallas Marriott Las Colinas. The link above lists the hotel correctly. David Sweeney Texas Aggie Brew Club (TABC) Millican, Texas david at studentlife.tamu.edu [1067.2 mi, 219.8 deg] (Apparent) Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:51:00 -0500 From: "Dan Dewberry" <dandew at ev1.net> Subject: Re: AHA in Dallas-moving again but still no need to worry!!! Amazingly the AHA National Convention has been moved again. I'm sure this is driving the organizers crazy & I sympathize with them. The Wilson World Hotel was been closed unexpectedly & then it looked like the convention would be at the Holiday Inn Select....however it has been changed to: Dallas Marriott Las Colinas 223 West Las Colinas Blvd Irving, TX 75039 972-831-0000 http://www.marriotthotels.com/dpp/PropertyPage.asp?MarshaCode=DALCL Again, you won't need to make reservations if you already had. See ya there, Dan in Austin Austin Zealots Homebrew Club Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:35:31 -0400 From: "Ed Dorn" <edorn at dukes-stein.com> Subject: Good brew in the Big Easy My wife and I will be in the New Orleans area next week for a few days, and we'll also spend some time in casino country on the Miss. coast. Would love to know where to find good beer in those areas, and maybe some restaurants serving really good Cajun food and (dare I ask it?) Zydeco music in house? That's a tall order, I know, but one never knows until one tries. I don't mind going off the beaten path if necessary. Thanks in advance. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 19:42:04 -0400 From: "Laura Barrowman" <llbarrowman at hotmail.com> Subject: blue rhino propane exchange I am finally exchanging my old propane tanks, w/o the overflow thing the gov. says we must have. I tried Blue Rhino but am not confident that they won't leak. The inside of the valve is a different shape than on my old tanks. Yeah, the threads match & I can get it tightened. It just feels feels funny when I get the fitting tight like the connection is only metal to metal, not the squishy feel, I'm used to, when the O-ring is compressing. I can't tell if it is leaking, there is no smell or sound when I open the valve. I tried calling Blue Rhino but I talked to a serious maroon who told me to start up my grill (he didn't know what a cajun cooker was) and if it lit, the connection to the tank was probably fine. I guess I was supposed to wait for the big KaBoom! After trying to state my comcerns for ~10 minutes I finally hung up on him. I'm sure someone else has been in my boat. I couldn't find anything via the HBD search engines. I tried the one that really works and the one that doesn't. BTW, my cookers have a threadded male fitting ~3/4" dia. TIA, Laura in NC Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:28:32 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net> Subject: Weihenstephan & Wissenschaftliche Brewers I promised to report back on what I found out from an expert on the subject. He wrote: >Weihenstephan is the name of the University ... Wissenschaftliche >means the scientific part of that, including the yeast bank. ... >W34/70 is one of the oldest bottom fermenting (lager) yeast that I >know. So that clears that up. He has told me in the past that W34/70 is perhaps the most commonly used lager yeast in Germany. Wyeast 2124 Bohemian and WhiteLabs WLP830 German Lager are reputedly W34/70. SafLager sells a dried version as well http://www.dclyeast.co.uk/DCL_Main/main_brewing/craftbrew/craftbrew_prorange.htm Hope this helps. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:06:33 -0400 From: Don Lake <debil at sunnyorlando.com> Subject: Orlando Beer Scene - the Real Story Although I was a confidential informant to Rick Foote's original inquiry, I feel compelled to speak out. While the real beer scene here is nowhere near the smorgasbord of say, Colorado, the availability of good beer has come a long way in Orlando. The bad news is that Shipyard Brewery lost their sweetheart lease at the Orlando International Airport. They are looking for a new building, but for right now the brewery is in storage and their fine ales are currently being brewed and shipped down from the original brewery in Maine. The good news is that we have a new distributor and beer in town. Since he is too modest to brag, I'll do it for him. Homebrewer and semi-regular HBD poster, Tom Moench, has recently started a beer distributorship named "Unique Brews." Tom has acquired the distribution rights to all of Shipyard's products(draft & bottles)plus the lines of several other fine breweries. And if that's not enough, Tom is having his own award-winning Coconut Porter recipe brewed under contract and it is now on tap at several locations in the Orlando market. Here are some places in Orlando for fine beverages: *Rossi's Pizza - Local hangout with great food & great beer *Back Booth - Downtown with over 30 tap handles *Bodhisattva - Downtown great taps and "the shine of your Japan, the sparkle of your China ...." *Jax 5th Ave - Downtown & College Park - lot of good taps *Cricketeer Arms - Great Brit Tap selection in tourist area *Orlando Ale House - Chain w/ avg food & above-average beer *Big River Brewpub - At Disney's Boardwalk - cool locale So, the next time you come to blow all your savings on vacation at Wally World, check out the beer scene and specifically ask for Unique Brew's Coconut Porter. Don Lake Orlando, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:45:29 -0700 From: John Maylone <mrkoala at mac.com> Subject: Blow off This is a rookie question, but what is the accepted/best way to deal with blow off? I have a batch of Belgian Dubbel in my 6.5 carboy and it gushed out through the air lock big time yesterday afternoon. I popped the airlock out, then took a carboy cap and jammed a 3/8 plastic tube over the small outlet with the large outlet capped, then coiled the end of the tube into a jar of water, but there must be an easier/better way. This is only the second time this has happened and the first time was a very benign episode; short lived and not very messy. This one was was more of a "gusher" and I'd like to at least FEEL more prepared next time....... Thanks for any input, John in Tollhouse Return to table of contents
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