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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Need another mag drive pump (Kent Fletcher)
  Leaking Propane Tank (RBoland)
  Blue Rhino propane (Kent Fletcher)
  re: beer descriptions, blue rhino propane exchange ("Mark Tumarkin")
  HBD SLAMDOWN! is ON For NHC Dallas! ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Canada Wins World Beer Cup ("Alan McKay")
  Propane leak-check ("Michael Maag")
  RE: C?CA (Ed Jones)
  Chimay on draft (Nancy & George)
  Hop growth and Bickering Brewers (Brewmiker)
  Beer descriptions (gremake)
  Re: Good brew in the Big Easy (Pt 1) (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Good brew in the Big Easy (Part 2) (Jeff Renner)
  Re: C?CA (Jeff Renner)
  Sparge Water Chemistry (Martin_Brungard)
  Re: Blow off (Jeff Renner)
  death of a refrigerator ("Chuck Dougherty")
  Schoenling Cream Ale (David Harsh)
  I Owe Dave Dixon a Beer ("Paul Gatza")
  Re: blue rhino propane exchange ("phil sides jr")
  Re: C?CA ("phil sides jr")
  AHA National Homebrewers Conference - hotel reservations ("AOB Moderator")
  Tom Moench ("Dave Burley")
  mrkoala at mac.com (LJ Vitt)
  RE:  Adding water after fermentation ("dunno me")
  Re: A Call to Arms:  Another (Great???) Idea ("Pete Calinski")


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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 21:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Need another mag drive pump

McMaster-Carr has a unit good for 190 degree liquids,
pumps over 6 gpm at 5 ft head, should be more than
adequate, matches your description of materials. About
$100. Actually, the MoreBeer guys have the same pump
(#H300) for $99, and I'd rather give my money to them,
wouldn't you? When's the last time McMaster-Carr
donated anything to a hombrew fest?
The truly high-temp (250 deg) pumps have bronze
volutes. MoreBeer #H310 at $119.
Personally, I use a Teel pump that's only rate to 160
degrees, been using it over a year with no ill
effects, including pumping wort from kettle through
the chiller.

Kent Fletcher
brews in Southern California




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:15:00 EDT
From: RBoland at aol.com
Subject: Leaking Propane Tank

Lara is concerned that her Blue Rhino propane tank may be leaking at the hose 
connection.  First, make sure there is no foreign matter in/on either 
fitting.  Then make the connection and spray iodophor, star san, or a soap 
and water solution onto it after opening the valve.  Look for bubbles.  No 
bubbles, no leak.  Tighten the connection to stop the bubbles.  If it still 
leaks, replace the gasket and smooth out any burrs on hose coupling.  If all 
else fails, return the tank to your vendor.

Here in St. Louis, a Blue Rhino exchange is now $18.  The local U-Haul center 
will fill a tank for about $7, and even less if multiple tanks are filled at 
the same time.  They fill Blue Rhino tanks also.  

Bob Boland  


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:16:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: Blue Rhino propane 

Laura,
The Blue Rhino should be fine. I just had to run up to
Home Depot on Sunday night and buy one when my old
tank started to run dry with 20 minutes left to go on
the boil!
If you're concerned, take a solution of a little bit
of dish soap in a cup of water and spray, brush or
drip it on the tightened connection and open the
valve. If you have any leaks, you will see bubbles.
This is the industry standard test method. Your
(left-hand) threaded connector should turn almost all
the way in by hand, then take about a quarter-turn
with a wrench to tighten. If it takes more wrenching,
the threads are probably dirty or even damaged. In
that case, clean both male and feamle threads and try
again. If it still binds you may need to replace the
male connector on your regulator.
Hope that helps,
Kent




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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 05:10:06 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: beer descriptions, blue rhino propane exchange

Dave's tasting description of Purkmistr, a dark Czech lager, is excellent. I'd
had just a taste of it a while back and he brings back the flavors clearly to
my mind. He shows us that beer description/evaluation language doesn't have to
be fancy or complex - simple and descriptive works fine.We all need to aim for
this kind of language usage, both when we judge & fill out score sheets and
also anytime we discuss beers and their flavors.

Laura writes about possible leaky connection on a new Blue Rhino propane tank.
I don't know about the Blue Rhino tanks, but my tank with the new valve seems
to connect easily and without leaking. A simple test will end your worries
about leaking gas. Just mix a little bit of dish soap and water and brush it
on the connection. You'll see bubbles if you've got a leak.


Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL





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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 05:10:15 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: HBD SLAMDOWN! is ON For NHC Dallas! 

Mark,

The NHC is starting to seem like a Prohibition era speakeasy that keeps moving
to stay one step ahead of the cops. It'd be funny it it wasn't so surreal. So
you're turning into a fight promoter, huh? Well, Steve A is an obvious
contender, people'll be lining up to take a pop at him.

I want to invite you, Steve, and any other HBDers,  to take part in another
slamdown, though I've never thought of it that way before. The last several
years (since the KC conf) a small but growing group of folks have been
bringing bottles of singlemalt along. We don't exactly slam 'em, but it's fun
never the less. I'll be rooming with Jeff Renner, so I'd imagine we'll have an
HBD meeting or two in our room.

see y'all in Dallas,

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL






Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 07:32:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: Canada Wins World Beer Cup


Proving themselves the worlds greatest beer drinking nation,
Canada - with home-court advantage - has won the first annual
World Beer Cup.  The US placed second, and Poland 3rd.
Teams from 15 countries competed in a series of games which
include many popular beer-drinking games.

http://www.canoe.ca/Television/jun13_beer-cp.html

- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
The Beer Site&#153;






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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 07:54:29 -0400
From: "Michael Maag" <MichaelMaag at doli.state.va.us>
Subject: Propane leak-check

Laura in NC is concerned about the connection between the cajun cooker
and the new tank.  Since they seem to connect ok, the thing to do is to
position the tank as far away from the cooker as the line will allow,
then light the burner.  Have some liquid soap and water solution handy,
and spray, pour, or brush, the soap over all connections.  Any leaks
will make bubbles.  No bubbles, no problem.

Hope this helps,
Mike Maag, Industrial Safety Inspector, Va OSHA



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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 08:15:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ed Jones <ejones at ironacres.com>
Subject: RE: C?CA

How about NACA (North American Creme Ale)? CCCA looks too much like an old
Soviet acronym to me. :-)

- --
Ed Jones - Columbus, Ohio U.S.A - [163.8, 159.4] [B, D] Rennerian

"When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment,
I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am
confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery."
  - written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815



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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 08:15:13 -0400
From: Nancy & George <homsweet at voicenet.com>
Subject: Chimay on draft

Chimay Cinq Cents (aka White or Triple) is pouring on draft in its US debut
at Monk's Cafe in Philly. Premired at Tuesday night's fabulous beer dinner.
I believe it's 6 bucks a glass at the back bar. Yummy! After years of
badgering the good monks of Chimay, Monk's owner Tom Peters and local
importer Eddy Friedland recieved the first kegs in America. Next week it may
appear at other Philly area watering holes. Later this month in NYC. It's a
good time to be a beer lover!

George Hummel
MABN Phila/DE/HB News



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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:18:40 EDT
From: Brewmiker at aol.com
Subject: Hop growth and Bickering Brewers

Mike Schrempp writes, 
I have three hop plants in my yard. One each of Halertau, Saaz, and
Tetnanger. This is their second season in the ground...
 The Saaz hops are lagging behind in growth.
While I haven't grown Saaz before, I do no that it is beneficial to prune to 
only one or two hop bines, for maximum growth per plant. At this time my 
Fuggles, Willamette
, and Nugget are neck and neck at about 13 feet.

Troy Hager suggests a call to action on more accurate 
and descriptive beer flavor terms. Sounds like a great project and I'm sure 
it would be a welcome reprieve from the HSA holy war...

Mike Mullins
Brewing up a storm in Lapeer, Michigan


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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 08:25:20 -0500 (CDT)
From: gremake at gsb.uchicago.edu
Subject: Beer descriptions

Hello all,

The web page at http://www.ratebeer.com/Articles.asp has a link titled 
Aroma/Flavor Checklist that offers some very good descriptors for beer flavor, 
aroma and appearance.  The suggested scoring is not per BJCP guidelines, but I 
found the checklist to be very useful and informative, and I hope to implement 
it in rating my own recipes.  Perhaps you'll find it useful too.

Cheers,

Greg
Chicago, IL


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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:50:08 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Good brew in the Big Easy (Pt 1)

"Ed Dorn" <edorn at dukes-stein.com> writes:

>My wife and I will be in the New Orleans area next week for a few days

A few years ago my wife and I went to N.O. and among other things, 
inspired by Roger Deschner's tour report (below), we toured the Dixie 
Brewery.  We found the brewmaster, Kevin Stuart, extremely 
hospitable.  He took us all over the brewery and gave us (well, me, 
Nancy listened politely) some really good technical information.  A 
letter or phone call ahead saying that you are a homebrewer might get 
you a personalized tour too.

Blackened Voodoo, a really nice dark lager, is the beer that saved 
the brewery.  It seems that the religious right got all upset over 
the satanic name and campaigned against it, and that made it a cult 
favorite.  But the main brand, Dixie, is a fine, light American lager 
(no, not a CAP, but a fine crisp beer).  When it's fresh, you can 
taste the malt, light as it is.  Goes great with local cuisine.

Roger's report is below in two mparts to come in under the HBD 8k 
limit.  Since it was posted publicly (the old ATIB list), I think I 
don't need permission to repost it.  There is also another review at 
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m3469/48_51/68160016/p1/article.jhtml

Jeff

- --------

Date:    Sat, 15 Jun 1996 14:26:47 CDT
From:    Roger Deschner <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Dixie Brewery Tour Report (long)

                  Tour report - Dixie Brewery, New Orleans
                          Roger Deschner, 6/7/96

Now HERE is a working museum piece! The Dixie Brewery is truly one of 
the most amazing, miraculous, sights in the brewing world. It was 
built in 1907, and is still owned by the same family. Everything here 
is old and decrepit. Motors turn on and off, valves hiss, and there 
is the aroma of ammonia all over the place. Only a few of the lights 
work. And somehow, beer is brewed.

A group of about six of us took the afternoon off from sessions at 
the American Homebrewer's Association Conference. Our tour guide was 
Kevin Stuart, the head brewer. Kevin was educated at UC Davis, and 
has been brewmaster at Dixie for ten years. he says that, despite the 
hard work involved in making beer at Dixie, the place gets under your 
skin. Maximum capacity in the 1960's was 300,000 barrels/year, but 
now they produce only a fraction of that. As a result of the lower 
production levels, some parts of the plant are simply closed off, 
such as a relatively new fully jacketed set of ageing vessels.

Brewing is done in a relatively new (but still old) stainless mash 
tun and brew kettle, which were hauled in from the old Jax brewery 
when it was closed. Their original copper brew kettle is no longer 
used, but they had polished it nicely to show off to the homebrewers. 
Grain mills, wort chillers, etc. all appear to be in pretty good 
working condition, although everything is very inconveniently 
located, involving lots of stair climbing. The brewers are in 
tremendous physical condition as a result. Brewing Blackened Voodoo 
presents a problem, because the place was built to make adjunct 
beers, and they have trouble handling the volume of barley malt 
required for an all-malt beer.

All beers are made with "Dixie Super Yeast", a strain which they have 
been using continuously for 20 years. They just keep repitching it. 
They do wash it, and periodically send a sample off to a lab for 
analysis, but they continue to reuse the same yeast, over and over. 
The local homebrewers have used it to brew lagers, with good success. 
The origins of this durable strain are a company secret. Just another 
part of the mystique.

Primary fermentation is in relatively new stainless tanks, in an 
addition to the building that lost much of its insulation during a 
recent hurricane. A door which the storm had pried off its hinges was 
left there to rust, bent and twisted, and the open doorway was simply 
boarded up. Before that addition was built, primary fermentation was 
done in open cypress vats. The gems here are the lagering tanks, 
which are made entirely of Louisiana swamp cypress wood. These 
original beauties are lovingly tended, and require quite a bit of 
maintenance. They are presently experimenting with a new type of wood 
treatment which may greatly increase the time between required 
periodic retreatments. There is only one other set of wooden beer 
vessels still in use in the U.S. (Where? Dubuque? Yeungling?) The 
lagering cellars, in the middle of the brewery, are constantly damp 
and dripping, like a cave, with the pervasive aroma of ammonia. A 
fitting place for a beer called Blackened Voodoo to be made!

- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 09:51:27 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Good brew in the Big Easy (Part 2)

Continuing Roger Deschner's 1996 report on the Dixie Brewery tour:

We climbed up to the roof of the five-story building, for a nice cool 
breeze, and to inspect the rice silos up there which have been 
painted to look like cans of Dixie beer. The view of Downtown, the 
Mississippi River, and the abandoned neighboring Falstaff brewery, 
with King Gambrinus still perched on a high balcony, is impressive. 
(Kevin confessed to a desire to "borrow" the King and move him over 
to Dixie's roof.) One does wonder, though, after climbing the wobbly 
ladders and such to get up there, if the whole pile of loose bricks 
and rusting pipes might someday simply fall down. The real miracle is 
that they make good, uninfected beer in this chaotic mess.

Things look worse than they really are. You see a totally rusted-out 
pipe or piece of equipment, but then you realize that they don't use 
that one anymore; the one that they do use is in pretty good shape. 
Since there is no shortage of floor space inside the convoluted, 
hulking building, there is no incentive to haul out the old 
nonworking stuff. It's easier, and cheaper, to simply leave it. Two 
members of our group got lost, and it took a while for them to find 
their way out. It's somewhat reminiscent of Europe, where something 
called "new" is actually quite old, and the "old" one is really 
ancient.

Back down the wobbly ladders, and another trip across the Larry Bell 
Memorial Trick Board (I think Larry still has the bruise), and past 
the elegant wrought iron front gate, brought us back into the very 
plain tasting room for The Reward At The End Of The Brewery Tour. The 
bar was made from one of the old cypress tanks. The regular Dixie 
Beer, fresh from the brewery tap, is a very pleasant example of a 
Classic American Pilsner - a style that starts to look better and 
better as the major breweries lighten up their "regular" beers. Dixie 
is made with rice adjunct, all grown in Louisiana of course. 
Blackened Voodoo is an all-malt beer, medium brown in color, with a 
pleasant, dry toastiness. We did not try the new Crimson Voodoo. But 
we did taste the new White Chocolate Moose, which is sticky sweet. It 
is called a "dessert beer". (I have a feeling this experiment will 
languish for lack of a niche.) But we all had to shake our heads in 
amazement that such pleasant, clean beers could come out of the 
rusting jumble we had just toured. That is, as much as anything, a 
compliment to the skill and the really hard work of the brewers.

We also toured the Acadian Brewery, a brand-new micro that has been 
brewing for only six months. It's shiny, compact, all-new equipment 
was in stark contrast to Dixie. Their best beer is a nice, aromatic, 
Pilsner.

My Scale for the financial health of a brewery is the condition of 
the tuckpointing of its brickwork. Dixie's tuckpointing is bad - all 
the bricks are loose. There are lots of broken windows. In fact, 
everything here is rusting and falling apart. Dixie was on the verge 
of declaring bankruptcy when Blackened Voodoo Beer was banned by the 
State of Texas due to its satanic label. The preposterousness of this 
action generated so much publicity for Dixie that it literally saved 
the company and the brewery. Within days, they couldn't make enough 
Blackened Voodoo to meet the demand. The Louisiana Legislature 
threatened to ban Lone Star Beer in retaliation, so finally Texas 
backed down. Since then, Blackened Voodoo has been very popular in 
the Lone Star State, and elsewhere.

The brewery, despite its high maintenance and labor costs, is at 
least marginally profitable. We had to ponder, how long can they keep 
going on like this? Probably forever. The plant, rust, loose bricks 
and all, is fully paid for. The tax assessor can't be very hard on 
such a decaying relic. The portion of the equipment that is used 
presently for production works well enough. So the higher maintenance 
and labor costs are offset by lower capital costs. (In contrast, 
Acadian forks a large part of their income over to the bank, but has 
lower operating costs.) As long as they continue to produce clean 
beer, and occasionally innovate with things like Crimson Voodoo, this 
creaking, hissing, rusting relic can probably remain viable in the 
long term.

At any rate, this incredible tour certainly gives me a different 
perspective, when I come across a six-pack of a Dixie product in a 
store. Despite thoughts of all those rusting pipes and crumbling 
bricks, I'll be more likely to buy it (if it's fresh), since it's 
good, clean, reasonably interesting beer, and I'll be supporting a 
real working museum of brewing history.

Roger Deschner      University of Illinois at Chicago     rogerd at uic.edu
Aliases: u52983 at uicvm.uic.edu    R.Deschner at uic.edu     USUICZ3P at IBMMAIL
=============== "Civilization was CAUSED by beer." =====================
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 11:03:23 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: C?CA

From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com> wrote from Ontario:

>Brewers, in today's HBD I again see the acronym CACA, or Classic American
>Cream Ale - an unfortunate term that seems to be gaining currency in these
>parts.  Now, I'm no beer historian but I am a wee bit of a nationalist, and
>would like to carve out a bit of Canadian territory on the beer style map,
>or at least claim that territory back from our encroaching neighbours.
>
>Perhaps a real beer historian has better information, but I always had heard
>that the style and name "cream ale" was a Canadian invention - first brewed
>by the Sleeman Brewing company in Guelph, Ontario.  The brewery was founded
>in 1851 (Sleeman had been brewing w/ others since 1834), and their cream ale
>was their flagship brew by the turn of the century.  (This is a synopsis
>lifted from sleeman.com).
>
>>From the Genesee web site, it appears that their cream ale didn't show up
>until the 1960's.  I can't seem to find an introduction date for "Little
>Kings" (the only other commercial cream ale mentioned by the BJCP) - but I
>don't think it predates this century.
>
>So I make the humble request that we refer to Canada's only truly native
>style as the Classic Canadian Cream Ale, or CCCA.

As I recently posted, I can trace my beer epiphany to tasting 
Canadian ale in 1970, although it was the copper colored Molson Stock 
Ale, not a cream ale.  That, as well as living 50 miles from Ontario, 
makes me sympathetic to your cause.

I think that 1970 Molson Export Ale, also an eye-opener for me, could 
fairly be called a species of cream ale.  Canadian ales, even dumbed 
down as many are today, are, IMO, still closer to what we have been 
calling a Classic American/Canadian Cream Ale than Genny or Little 
Kings.  They don't have the sugary sweetness of LK, at least.

The history of ale in North America is a fascinating subject for a 
book, and one I may write after I finish a book on CAP (you're not 
holding your collective breaths, are you?).  Here is the quick 
version.

Before lagers arrived in N.A. and displaced them, one author 
described ales as something like "dark, muddy and intoxicating."  No 
wonder lagers were preferred by so many.  Ales did hold on in 
popularity in the east, specifically in the more English areas of the 
US, such as New England and New York down to Baltimore, and is 
eastern Canada (supposedly east of Yonge St. in Toronto).

However, lager sales in most of the continent were severely cutting 
into the sales of ale.  To fight this, ale brewers (who had their own 
separate professional association for years until they joined the 
lager brewers after they began to conduct meetings meetings in 
English instead of German in 1875) hit upon the idea of competing 
with "present use" or "cream" ale.  This was a pale, effervescent, 
refreshing ale brewed much like a lager (with corn or rice) but 
fermented as an ale.

Wahl and Henius refer to it by these names in 1902.  Ben Jankowski, 
in his Brewing Techniques article "Cream Ale - An American Classic," 
writes "As to who coined the phrase "cream ale," no evidence points 
to any one individual.  I believe the phrase was used by various 
breweries at the fairs and expositions that occurred in various 
cities in the late nineteenth century."

If I have some time, I will dig in my library and try to find more 
details, but I think it is safe to say that the style predated the 
name, and was probably as varied as other styles.  No doubt the 
Canadians were brewing more characterful very pale, effervescent ales 
in the 1970s when I starting noticing than were the Americans.  One 
of my preferred yeasts for the style is the Molson yeast sold by 
Yeast Culture Kit Co. as Canadian ale yeast.

How about CACCA?

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 11:24:44 -0400
From: Martin_Brungard at URSCorp.com
Subject: Sparge Water Chemistry

pH adjustment for sparge water is used to supposedly reduce tannin leaching
during the sparge.  I wonder about the merit of the practice when hardness
minerals are added to the water.

Kolbach's Residual Alkalinity (RA) is an important indicator of a water's
suitability for brewing.  It correlates alkalinity and hardness to creating
acceptable pH ranges for mashing.  Adjusting either the alkalinity or
hardness of the water may shift the water's RA.

I routinely adjust the mineral content of my local water to mimic the water
styles for various beer styles.  Along with that adjustment, I usually
adjust the water's pH.

After brewing many beer batches that had "something" wrong with their
flavor profile, I realized that my combination of mineral addition
(increased hardness) and pH adjustment (reduced alkalinity) was possibly
dropping the RA of my brewing water too low.  This may be particularly
critical with my sparge water, where I was adjusting the pH down into the
5.4 to 5.7 range.

Let me tell you what water I'm starting with and some of the water styles I
use.  Tallahassee water is a very good brewing water.  Alkalinity is about
125 ppm and Hardness is about 140 ppm.  That puts the RA at about 75, just
slightly too high.  The calcium concentration is about 41 ppm and the
magnesium is about 12 ppm.  About 6 to 7 drops of 88% Lactic will drop the
pH to 7.  I figure that nearly wipes out the alkalinity.  I was
neutralizing all my mash water this way.  So just that acid addition may be
dropping my mash RA into the -25 to -50 range.  One problem I deduced was
that I was still adding the acid when I was adjusting the mineral content
for particular water styles.  For instance, for a pale ale profile, I was
adjusting the hardness into the 350 ppm range with a mixture of gypsum,
epsom, and CaCL.  This combination of neutralization and mineral addition
was probably dropping my RA into the -100 range.  This probably isn't a big
deal, but when I took that same mineral profile and lowered the pH into the
5.4 to 5.7 range, the RA is easily down into the -175 to -200 range.  That
can't be good!  I can attest that the attenuation and hop utilization for
these beers is affected adversely.

I now realize that no neutralization is needed for my mash water if I'm
doing a darker grist or if I'm increasing the water hardness by more than
about 150 ppm with minerals.  Just the hardness addition or darker grist
gets my mash into an acceptable range for mashing.  I think this resolves
issues with mash water adjustments.

This still leaves the question, does the RA of the sparge water matter?  I
say it only makes sense to adjust all of my brewing water (mash and sparge)
to the mineral profile appropriate for the style.  But this adjustment
along with a pH adjustment will drop the RA into really low ranges.  Is
that wise?  Does this matter, since the mash chemistry should only be
important during conversion?  If I'm adjusting the hardness way on up
there, is there still a need for pH adjustment of the sparge water.

Could there be an alternative to adjusting the mineral profile of the
sparge water?  I could just leave out the minerals from the sparge water
and add them directly into the boil.  That way, the overall water profile
will still meet the target.  This is just a thought.  Does this really
matter?

I think a discussion about the RA of sparge water is appropriate here.
There are plenty of experts here.  There are also plenty of seasoned
brewers that can add there observations and brewing practices regarding
this issue.  I hope you will all pipe up on the issue.

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL




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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 11:27:09 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Blow off

John Maylone <mrkoala at mac.com> in Tollhouse

>This is a rookie question, but what is the accepted/best way to deal with
>blow off? 
>
>I have a batch of Belgian Dubbel in my 6.5 carboy and it gushed out through
>the air lock big time yesterday afternoon.  I popped the airlock out, then
>took a carboy cap and jammed a 3/8 plastic tube over the small outlet with
>the large outlet capped, then coiled the end of the tube into a jar of
>water, but there must be an easier/better way.

I never do a blowoff anymore, preferring to use a covered open 
fermenter with lots of head space for foamy ales, and an airlocked 
carboy or Sankey keg for low foaming lagers.

However, the way I used to do this was with a 36 inch length of 1" 
diameter clear vinyl hose jammed into the neck of the carboy and the 
other end in a small bucket of water.  Works great.  You can clean 
out the tube when it gets gunky with a carboy brush.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 11:48:29 -0500
From: "Chuck Dougherty" <jdougherty at wlj.com>
Subject: death of a refrigerator

Last weekend I brewed an O'fest, or so I had planned.  It wasn't until
after I had wort in the fermenters that I figured out my brewing
refrigerator had gone to that great appliance shop in the sky.  There
wasn't much to do at that point except put the fermenters in the coolest
room in the house (at a bone-chilling 70 F.) and call it steam beer.
Now I had originally intended to repitch this yeast, and I will shortly
have my refrigerator replaced so that I can get back to brewing real
lager.  So my question to the collective is whether repitching a lager
yeast that has been used to ferment a beer at room temperature is a bad
idea, and if so why?  If it matters, the yeast strain in question is
White Labs WLP820 Octoberfest/Marzen.

Also, it occurs to me that while the compressor on the refrigerator may
be dead, I still have a perfectly good metal box.  Does anybody have any
creative ideas for how to use a dead refrigerator for something beer
related?  At worst it seems I now have a two-compartment, mouse-proof
storage bin.

Chuck Dougherty
Little Rock, Arkansas


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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 13:24:35 -0400
From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
Subject: Schoenling Cream Ale

Drew Avis <andrew_avis at hotmail.com> asks about CCCA vs. CACA:
> ... the style and name "cream ale" was a Canadian invention - first brewed
> by the Sleeman Brewing company in Guelph, Ontario.  The brewery was founded
> in 1851 (Sleeman had been brewing w/ others since 1834), and their cream ale
> was their flagship brew by the turn of the century.  (This is a synopsis
> lifted from sleeman.com).

Schoenling (pronounced "shane' ling") Cream Ale was introduced in 1958. 
(See "Over the Barrel - The Brewing History and Beer Culture of
Cincinati, Volume Two, Prohibition - 2001" by Timothy J. Holian, p. 269,
Sudhaus Press.)  Volume 1, 1800 - Prohibition is well worth reading
also.  Schoenling Cream Ale was best known for its packaging in 8 packs
of 7 oz green bottles; selling for around $1.75 in campus area carryouts
in the late 70s.  Locally, it was referred to as "chinese beer" (think
about it); long time Cincinnatians will also remember their Sir Edward
Stout a.k.a. "fat eddies" and the 64 oz. bottles of some kind of
unpasteurized beer under the name "Big Jugs" - and I'm not kidding. 
Schoenling also made a cut rate beer called Top Hat.  More information
than you wanted, I know.

So while Canada may be the point of origin of the style, I would suggest
that "America" actually includes Canada...  maybe Classic North American
Cream Ale?  CaNACA sounds better than CACA anyway and I don't know how
to pronounce CCCA.  

Makes no difference to me, I just thought I'd give the scoop on Little Kings.

Dave Harsh						Cincinnati, OH
Bloatarian Brewing League


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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 12:41:36 -0600
From: "Paul Gatza" <paul at aob.org>
Subject: I Owe Dave Dixon a Beer

Hi everyone. Kate posted the site change for the National Homebrewers
Conference yesterday. Here is the background. Radisson bought the Wilson
World on June 3. In order to honor the contract, their hotel management
company worked with us on the possibility of moving the event to one of two
Holiday Inn Select properties they oversee. We thought we had a deal with
one, but the deal fell through when they reversed the plan and determined
they could not accommodate the number of people already registered for the
banquet where the National Homebrew Competition awards are announced. (It
had to do with the inability to switch rooms with the Sweet Adelines group
because they needed the high ceilings for jumping. I am still trying to
figure out what this means.) Rather than shut out attendees, we kept
searching. We finally agreed on a final contract on Wednesday evening.

Dave Dixon is weary of me calling him at all hours on his cell phone about
the latest in negotiations and the next place to do a site visit at. Dave
has run his butt off to find us a new home, and I and all attendees really
owe him one. He has stepped up big time.

For those of you thinking of attending, this event is loads of fun with
great information and awesome camaraderie for days. Visit www.beertown.org
for the link to the confeernce site. Registrations will be taken onsite.

Thanks.

Paul Gatza
Director--American Homebrewers Association
Director--Institute for Brewing Studies
Association of Brewers
736 Pearl St., Boulder, CO, USA 80302
+1.303.447.0816 ext. 122
mailto:paul at aob.org
www.beertown.org



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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:24:40 -0400
From: "phil sides jr" <phil at brewingnews.com>
Subject: Re: blue rhino propane exchange

Laura Barrowman" <llbarrowman at hotmail.com> writes:
>gov. says we must have. I tried Blue Rhino but am not confident that they
won't leak. The >inside of the valve is a different shape than on my old
tanks. Yeah, the threads match & I can >get it tightened.  It just feels
feels funny when I get the fitting tight like the connection is only
>metal to metal, not the squishy feel, I'm used to,  when the O-ring is
compressing. I can't tell >if it is leaking, there is no smell or sound when
I open the valve. I tried calling Blue Rhino but >I talked to a serious

Mix up a small amount of liquid dish soap in an old spray bottle filled with
water and spray some around the connection --  no bubbles, no leak.

Phil Sides, Jr.
Silver Spring, MD

- ----
I don't have an attitude problem...  You have a perception problem.







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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 15:30:03 -0400
From: "phil sides jr" <phil at brewingnews.com>
Subject: Re: C?CA

"Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com> requests:
>So I make the humble request that we refer to Canada's only truly native
>style as the Classic Canadian Cream Ale, or CCCA.

But Molson (established 1786) seems to want us *not* making that
distinction.  They are the brewery who calls themselves "North America's
Oldest Brewery" and fought Yuengling (established 1829) in 1993 when they
applied for federal trademark protection for the "America's Oldest Brewery"
mark.  The PTO awarded Yuengling the trademark but had they not, wouldn't
CACA refer to a Cream Ale brewed in Canada or the U.S.?  ;-)

OK... I should be working, not reading the HBD, huh?

Phil Sides, Jr.
Silver Spring, MD


- ----
I don't have an attitude problem...  You have a perception problem.







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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 17:19:39 -0600
From: "AOB Moderator" <moderator at aob.org>
Subject: AHA National Homebrewers Conference - hotel reservations

Howdy Homebrewers:

Just a quick note regarding the hotel change for the AHA National
Homebrewers Conference, June 20-22, 2002.

The new site is:

Dallas Marriott Las Colinas
223 West Las Colinas Blvd
Irving, TX 75039
972-831-0000

http://reservations.lodging.com/servlet/PropertyInformation/MC_DALCL/

As mentioned before, the AHA is taking care of all room reservations
previously made at the Wilson World Hotel. Furthermore, any hotel
reservation made at the Holiday Inn Select, should be canceled!

Please do not call the Dallas Marriott Las Colinas to make reservations, if
you made them with Wilson World Hotel. I have personally hand-checked the
reservations made at Wilson World and faxed them to Dallas Marriott Las
Colinas. Because we are taking such efforts to assure everyone has a room,
the final reservations may not be registered until Monday at the earliest.
If you call Dallas Marriott Las Colinas to check on your reservation, they
may not be aware of it yet. Please wait until Tuesday, June 18, 2002, to
check on your reservations - just to give them time to process everything!

All rooms have been registered as two double beds, with the base rate of
$60. More than likely, everyone will be able to upgrade to two queens or a
king with a pull-out couch. If you made specific arrangements (other than
basic reservations) with Wilson World Hotel please contact Amy Lucia,
972-831-0000 to settle on your room status at Dallas Marriott Las Colinas.

Thanks for all your patience - and contact me with any questions you may
have!

Kate Porter
2002 HBC Registrar
AHA Administrator
kate at aob.org
303-447-0816 x 123




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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 19:23:12 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Tom Moench

Brewsters:

I was so pleased to hear Tom Moench is involved with distributing Shipyard
and other products in Orlando and that his Coconut Porter ( which I tasted
before it went public) is now available commercially. Way to go Tom!!!!

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 17:06:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: mrkoala at mac.com


In HBD#3963, John asked about blow off tubes:

>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 20:45:29 -0700
>From: John Maylone <mrkoala at mac.com>
>Subject: Blow off
 
    
>This is a rookie question, but what is the accepted/best way to deal with
Lblow off?  
 
>I have a batch of Belgian Dubbel in my 6.5 carboy and it gushed out through
>the air lock big time yesterday afternoon.  I popped the airlock out, then
>took a carboy cap and jammed a 3/8 plastic tube over the small outlet with
>the large outlet capped, then coiled the end of the tube into a jar of
>water, but there must be an easier/better way.
 
>This is only the second time this has happened and the first time was a very
>benign episode; short lived and not very messy.  This one was was more of a
>"gusher" and I'd like to at least FEEL more prepared next time.......
 
I sometimes need a blow off tube also.  I find out I need it when I see the
airlock is full of yeast.

My blow off tube has a 1 inch inside diameter. OD is 1.25 inch.
That snugly fits into the carboy opening.
The other end of the tube goes into a tub of sanitizer.
The length of the tube is 3.5 feet.



=====
Leo Vitt
Rochester MN



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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 18:08:15 -0600
From: "dunno me" <nicklebender at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE:  Adding water after fermentation

I was extremely lucky this spring to get a 4 hour private toour of Molson 
this spring in Toronto. Thinning high gravity beers is done commonly 
there(as well as some blending as needed). I think it safe to say its a 
matter of perspective, the purist will say "no", but as far as I could tell 
fermenting a little thick and then thinning by about 15%-20% is fine, if you 
like the taste of your brew to begin with F.G. is adjustable...

Doug Craftchick
Sudbury, Canada

GHB (Good HomeBrewing Internet Club)
http://forums.delphiforums.com/homebrew007/start






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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 21:27:25 -0400
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: A Call to Arms:  Another (Great???) Idea

What a coincidence.   I was just on a trip and ran into a bartender (at a
bar with 12 or so very unusual beers).  He was very knowledgeable about beer
styles, tastes, and descriptions.  We got into a discussion about the lack
of a good way to describe the other contributions from hops.  Contributions
such as flavor and aroma.  Many people can relate to hop bittering on the
IBU scale but how about IFU and IAU for flavoring units and aroma(ing??)
units?  Then you could describe a beer as 45 IBUs, 20 IFUs and 20 IAUs.

Neither of us had ever heard of anything like this.  We commented that
bitterness can be measured chemically where as we didn't know of any way to
get a quantitative measurement of flavor or aroma.

Anybody know of any way these other contributions could be standardized and
then quoted to help describe a particular beer?

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


***********************************************************
*My goal:
*      Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
*     (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************



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---