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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  San Diego brewpubs. (Marc Donnelly)
  Free Kegging Equipment & Fridge ("Thomas Barnett")
  sparge water (Marc Sedam)
  Re: Spoiled Results - Argh! (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Spoiled Results - Argh! (Demonick)
  Re:propane tank xchg ("Goll, Christopher M [SFAE-GCS-CR]")
  Re: mash tun design/propane thanks (Martin_Brungard)
  Alt Bier ("Partner")
  Malted Oat Stout (Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY)
  Re: Spoiled Results - Argh! ("Chad Gould")


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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 00:02:30 -0500
From: Marc Donnelly <marc at targetadv.com>
Subject: San Diego brewpubs.

I'm going to be in San Diego for a week and would like some 
recommendations of brew pubs in the downtown area (no car - mass 
transit and foot). thanks
- -- 


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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 07:19:27 -0400
From: "Thomas Barnett" <tbarnet at us.ibm.com>
Subject: Free Kegging Equipment & Fridge

All,

I have recently relocated and have decided to leave behind some kegging
equipment.  I have 5 Pepsi kegs, two 5 lb. CO2 tanks and a refrigerator
with 2 taps attached.  All in good condition.  The catch is you'll have to
pick them up in Auburn, Alabama this weekend, either Saturday 6/22/02 or
Sunday 6/23/02.  Those interested should send me email at
barnets at eng.auburn.edu.

Thanks,

Tom Barnett




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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 07:53:52 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: sparge water

Martin asks about adjusting sparge water, and is it
required...

For a few years, I was pretty anal about checking pH and
adjusting the mineral content of my waters to match the
style of whatever I was brewing.  I used two separate
methods, both of which will work but one of which is far
easier:

1)  Measure out all required water and make the mineral
adjustment to all brewing liquor.  Requires a very large
container, but adding mineral salts and acid to adjust the
pH is easier in a larger volume of water.  Problem is that
adding carbonates is tough--AJ suggests bubbling CO2 through
the treated water to get them to dissolve.

2)  Add all mineral salts to the mash.  This is much easier,
quicker, and solves the problem of some mineral salts not
dissolving in water.  The low pH of the mash will help
here.  Use untreated sparge water and most/all of the salts
will come through into the kettle.

Your call.  I still add a few tablespoons of gypsum to my
IPAs.

Cheers!
Marc

- --

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:28:02 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Spoiled Results - Argh!

"Greg Smith" <barnbrew at ix.netcom.com> of "BarnBrew Brewing Co." has a 
problem with infected beers.

Hope you aren't brewing in the barn.  That would be a considerable 
challenge to keep clean.  I assume that off flavors are indeed of a 
biological origin, but you might want to have someone else taste it 
for confirmation.  I think we are orten blind to the precise problems 
in our own beers.  I've know brewers who have the opposite problem 
you are describing - their beer was bad (infected or badly oxidized) 
and they didn't know it.

Several hints in your post:

>my last two fermentations started rather slowly ... I used a brand new yeast
>(Wyeast pitchable tube) ... 10-gallon batch

A pitchable tube is underpitching for ten gallons, which would lead 
to a slow start, but if sanitation is good enough, it shouldn't be a 
problem.  However, it would appear that you do have some piece of 
equipment or some process that is introducing contamination into your 
wort.  Are there any crevices or hard to reach spots in your 
equipment that might not be clean?  Corney poppets were the culprit 
for one of our club members.  I would be suspicious of your 
oxygenation system.  Is it a sterile filter?  You call it "a sanitary 
filter."  Is your airstone sterile, or at least close enough too 
sterile?

A starter certainly would help, as long as it isn't infected by the 
same problem.

A good test of you brewing techniques is to do a wort stability test 
(I think that's what it's called),  You remove a cup or so of your 
chilled wort just before pitching and put in a sterile jar for 
several days.  Nothing should grow and it should remain fresh 
smelling.  Probably not a good idea to taste it, though.

Hope you can figure out what's wrong.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 07:38:00 -0700
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Re: Spoiled Results - Argh!

Greg, we need a few more details.  All-grain, partial, or extract brews?
Plastic or glass or metal fermenters?  How do you sanitize?  Replaced your 
plastic tubing lately?  Do full boils?  How long?  Are you not using a
starter with 10 gallon batches?  How many successful batches have you done?
Is your equipment clean?  Meticulous sanitation is only effective on
equipment that is clean - no dried gunk - no gurge lurking in the corners
or cracks or crevices.  How do you aerate?  When you say O2, do you really
mean a tank of oxygen?  

Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax
Seattle, WA
demonick at zgi dot com
http://www.primetab.com



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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 16:10:01 -0400
From: "Goll, Christopher M [SFAE-GCS-CR]" <chris-goll at us.army.mil>
Subject: Re:propane tank xchg

'Laura in NC' writes:

"...Wal-Mart. It was only $12.96 for a full tank with the new overfill
device. I
couldn't believe they took my four old rusty, out-dated tanks, but they
did."

Six weeks ago this was the case. Unfortunately, around here Wal-Mart is onto
this now.  They now levy a $4 surcharge for exchanging non-OPD-valved tanks
(still no limit on rust or certification date).  It's still a great deal
though!

Chris
Budd Lake, NJ




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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:42:24 -0400
From: Martin_Brungard at URSCorp.com
Subject: Re: mash tun design/propane thanks

The minimum spacing of a false bottom above the tun bottom is easily
calculated.  By setting the annular area at the critical inlet section
equal to the cross-section area of the outlet tube, the fluid velocity in
each area will be similar.  The end result of that analysis is that the
required spacing between the false bottom and tun bottom is 1/4 the outlet
tube diameter.

Because there are other friction losses in the system and the false bottom
may sag, I would plan on increasing the spacing to 1/2 to 1 times the tube
diameter for safety.  That's all you need.

So, for a regular tun with a 1/4 inch ID outlet tube, the spacing between
the false bottom and tun bottom is about 1/4 inch.  Anything more than that
is just wasted space.

Many tuns have the false bottom set up higher than necessary because there
are outlets or fittings that interfere with lowering the false bottom any
lower.  Hopefully Laura's installation won't have that limitation.

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL




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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:11:53 -0500
From: "Partner" <Partner at Netdirect.net>
Subject: Alt Bier

Greetings:

I'm trying to find a recipe for an Alt. that is made in Germany. 

It's Called Kutcher Alt  and made at the Bending Brewery.

This is all the information I know.

Any Feedback is most appreciated

Thanks aforehand.

Byron




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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:10:38 -0400
From: Darrell_Leavitt/SUNY%SUNY at esc.edu
Subject: Malted Oat Stout

I am ususally not one to brag (wait....that itself is a brag), but I just
tasted a Malted Oat Stout that was so wonderful
 that I had
to share it with other brewers.  I think that in my 5 (+) years of brewing
this is the best stout that I have ever made.

  This was brewed on 5/27/2002, secondary on 6/9/02, and bottled today
(6/17/020.

The grain bill was :

5.5 lb  Fawcett's Maris Otter Pale malt
2 lb Carapils
2 lb Fawcett'sMalted Oats
1 lb Special B
 .5 lb Roasted Barley (in the sparge)
 .25 lb Wheat malt
 .6 lb Fawcett's Brown Malt
2 oz Black Patent

One rest at 165F for 60 minutes.

First runings were 1.068
 Boil gravity was 1.044
Original gravity was 1.051
Gravity into secondary was 1.015
Final gravity was 1.102
% abv was 5.1%

120 minute boil (I have a low btu burner...and collect 7 gallons of wort,
so need the longer boil, I believe)


hops were 1 oz EK Goldings  at  start of last 60
                      .5 oz Tetnanger  at  30
[ 31.4 ibu]

Yeast was 1084 Wyeast Tube (Irish Ale), and WLP 565 Belgian Saison..

I tasted this out of the hydrometer sample as it went into the bottling
bucket, and it really was good...a sweeter stout,...not real dry,...but to
me wonderful.

I have been experimenting with the mixing of yeasts,...and this one seems
good.

I know that the malted oats are higher in oil than one would wish...but boy
do they add a fantastic flavor, and we shall see
how the foam is effected...

Happy Brewing!

 ...Darrell



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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:27:32 -0400
From: "Chad Gould" <cgould11 at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Spoiled Results - Argh!

> At first I thought it was the city water, so I even buy spring water from
> the grocery store now.  For my latest batch, I used a brand new yeast
> (Wyeast pitchable tube), thinking the earlier batches got a yeast that was
> too old.  I'm meticulous with sanitation and I even boil some of my
> equipment to make sure it's super clean.  I aerate the wort with O2
(through
> a sanitary filter) to give the yeast a head start.  Just about the only
> thing  I haven't done for a faster starting fermentation is to prepare a
> starter the day before brewing (although the yeast starter set is on my
> shopping list).

I had two batches that unfortunately got spoiled by a sour bacteria. In my
case it was the acetic acid bacteria, and just from smelling my plastic
bucket from those batches, I knew where it came from. (Lactic bacteria I
believe is the other common souring bacteria.)

Something you didn't mention is how long it took to drop from boil
temperature to pitching temperature. This is a critical time for beer, when
wort-spoiling bacteria can enter. Therefore it is important to get the
temperature down as quick as possible. Originally, I was pitching 1 and 1/2
gallons of warm beer into a plastic bucket, filled with chilled water. It
still took roughly four-six hours to get to pitching temperature. I switched
to using a "bathtub wort chiller" this batch (using bath water to emulate
what a wort chiller does). This cut the time down to about 40 minutes for 1
and 1/2 gallons (Florida water isn't very cold). For 10-gallon batches, a
full scale wort chiller probably is recommended.

Most molds require air to live; once fermentation starts, mold can't grow on
the beer until it finishes. So getting quick fermentation is a good idea. A
yeast starter will help in that regard.

Finally, you mentioned you fermented in stainless steel. When I smelt the
plastic, I immediately switched to glass for all stages - it's much easier
to *notice* if nasties are growing at the bottom of your fermenter. I don't
know much about stainless steel - it shouldn't have the problem plastic has
of microscratches hiding bacteria, but it is probably more difficult to know
when its clean. Perhaps others can help.





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