---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Re:Phils dump sparging ("Thomas D. Hamann")
  bud the spud (Alan McKay)
  RE: Potato beer? ("David Houseman")
  Vodka (LJ Vitt)
  RE: Protein rest for Weissheimer Pils? (Paul Shick)
  walk in cooler (Ed Jones)
  Dandelion Heads (Ross Cohn)
  Re: Potato beer? (Jeff Renner)
  Some new brewing books . . . (Ray Daniels)
  RE: The Thirsty Traveler (Kelly Grigg)
  RE: Potato Beer (Kelly Grigg)
  RE: Potato Beer ("Doug Hurst")
  RE:Gorden Knight ("Joseph Marsh")
  re:  Chest freezer problems ("Ed Dorn")
  Food Grade Buckets (mohrstrom)
  We should all be so lucky . . . ("TED MAJOR")
  Brewing in the Middle East (Bob McDonald)
  Too good not to share (AJ)
  Egyptian beer/ Japanese style ("Dave Burley")
  Re: Chest freezer problems ("Angie and Reif Hammond")
  Sight glass replacement / Homebrew clubs in Denver ("Erik M. Vanthilt")
  Mash hops recipe tweaking (Kevin Crouch)


*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 16:20:27 +0930
From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au>
Subject: Re:Phils dump sparging

Hi Phil, I have to concur. I wanted to try batch sparging (as we down here 
call it) and was quite prepared to suffer the lower efficiency. But 
no!  Efficiency went from 66% to 72% and now I hover in the high 70's low 80's.
Sold my sparge arm to a whisky maker.

seeya,

Thomas.



At 00:11 2/08/02 Friday -0400, Phil Yates wrote:
>Hey, I always
>wanted to try my hand at dump sparging. Sorry Dan Listermann, looks like I
>won't be needing the sparge arm on this occasion. And what was the end
>result? Probably the best extraction I have ever got out of my grain. I'm
>now a dedicated dump sparger and whilst I loved my sparge arm, I won't be
>using it again.





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri,  2 Aug 2002 07:04:54 -0400
From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: bud the spud

Bill Wible asks about making potato beer.

Yes, I've done it and it makes great beer.  As you suspect the
procedure is the same as using any adjunct.  Boil the heck out
of them (whether or not this is required I don't know, but it
certainly doesn't hurt) and then mash with 2 Row, 6 Row, or anything
else with extra enzyme power.  As I recall potato is about 3/4 water
so take that into account when measuring out how much to use
(4 lbs of spuds is really only 1 lb).  Check the HBD archives because
I may have posted the exact figure here a few years ago - it's been
a while so memory fades.

How does it taste?  Potato is extremely clean and neutral, much
like rice.  As for using other veggies, sure, anything with starch
can be mashed like this.  e.g. I've also made pumpkin beer.

cheers,
 -Alan

- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
The Beer Site (tm)


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 07:52:50 -0400
From: "David Houseman" <housemanfam at earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Potato beer?

Bill Wible asks about making beer from potatoes.   Several years ago a club
member brought some potato lager to a meeting.  It was a very nice lager,
but as you can imagine, one doesn't really taste potato.  Rather this is
just nearly totally starch that is converted to sugar in the mash.  Yes,
Bill, you got it right.  Essentially you're adding mashed potatoes to the
mash.  Doesn't have to be 6 row malt; so long as the proportion of potato to
malt isn't too high 2-row malt has sufficient enzymes to convert itself and
the potato starch.

Dave Houseman



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 05:33:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Vodka


>I saw a show recently on the Food Network that was all
>about potatoes.  One of the last segments was about a
>company that 'still' makes vodka from 100% potatoes.
>This was news to me, I thought all vodka was made from
>potatoes.

I was informed by a visiter from Russia that good vodkas
are made from 100% grain.  What grains?  I don't know.






=====
Leo Vitt
Rochester MN



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:32:20 -0500
From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu>
Subject: RE: Protein rest for Weissheimer Pils?


Hi all,


      Mark Linton asks about whether or not Weissheimer
Pils malt needs a protein rest.

      Mark, I've used a lot of this malt over the last
few years, generally without any protein rest.  Typically,
I'll mash it in at 146-8F for 20-30 minutes, if I'm making
a style requiring a dry finish, then raise to 158F for the
remainder of the saccharification rest.  If the style
requires a maltier profile, I'll usually mash it in at
152-4F for 30 minutes or so, then raise to 158F.  In either
case, the beers have usually been haze free.  Occasionally,
I'll have a batch that's slow to clear, but a bit of lagering
usually takes care of it.

      Overall, I'd have to say that Weissheimer Pils has
become my favorite base malt.  I'm going through a lot of
it these days.

      Hope this helps.

                     Paul Shick,
                     Cleveland Hts, OH





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 08:57:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ed Jones <ejones at ironacres.com>
Subject: walk in cooler

All this talk about fermentation temps has me thinking about the possibility
of building my own walk-in-cooler of sorts. I'm thinking maybe a highly-
insulated 6'x6' room tucked away in a corner of my basement. Would a window
air conditioner unit controlled with an external temp controller work? Could
it be used keep the small room in the low 50s w/o burning out the compressor?
I don't mind having the AC unit exhaust into the basement. I don't know anything
about refrigeration and it's consequences (I can imagine condensation being
a big problem) so please send me any recommendations you might have.

Thanks

- --
Ed Jones - Columbus, Ohio U.S.A - [163.8, 159.4] [B, D] Rennerian

"When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment,
I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am
confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery."
  - written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 06:23:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ross Cohn <artnculture at yahoo.com>
Subject: Dandelion Heads

Hi all,
Does anyone know where I can purchase or find
Dandelion heads this time of year?  I missed the
opportunity to pick them this year and would like to
brew up a batch before the Summer ends.  Any help
would be great.

Best Wishes,
Ross




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:28:00 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Potato beer?

Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> writes

>I saw a show recently on the Food Network that was all
>about potatoes.  One of the last segments was about a
>company that 'still' makes vodka from 100% potatoes.
>This was news to me, I thought all vodka was made from
>potatoes.

Most vodka is made from grain, usually rye.  Since it is distilled 
off at nearly pure alcohol, very little source character is carried 
over.

In 1995 or so on HBD, Steve Stroud posted an article from the April 
1987 issue of the Foam Ranger's Brewsletter Urquell, "The Beer That 
Made Idaho Famous or How I Mash Potatoes" by Cary Jensen, which is 
archived at http://hbd.org/brewery/library/Potato.html

While the recipe for "Meister Potato Brau" (I'd have called it 
"Meister Potatohead Brau myself) is a bit dated (45 minute protein 
rest at 122F), it has good information.  The author says that it is 
unnecessary to boil the potatoes first as the potato starch is easily 
gelatinized at mash temperatures.

A few years ago, Point Brewery http://www.pointbeer.com/ of Stevens 
Point, WI made a potato beer for the local potato festival.  I had it 
and can't really say that it had any different character from their 
normal beer.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:50:35 -0500
From: Ray Daniels <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: Some new brewing books . . . 

A question on another forum recently prompted me to frame comments on some 
recently published brewing books and I thought they might be of interest 
here as well.  Here goes:

"Brewing Yeast and Fermentation." Chris Boulton and David Quain. (Blackwell 
Science, 2001) This recently released volume appears to be the definitive 
guide to brewers yeast and fermentation. With 642 pages, the major sections 
include: The Brewing Process, The Biochemistry of Fermentation, Brewing 
Yeast, Fermentation Systems, Fermentation Management, Yeast Management and 
Microbiology. It is detailed, practical and authoritative (more than 50 
pages of references listed). My take is that no serious brewing library 
should be without this volume. (You can order this on Amazon.com)

"Brewing Yeast Fermentation Performance." Edited by Katherine Smart 
(Blackwell Science, 2000). This is a collection of 26 papers covering 
recent research and current practice on brewing yeasts. Some are quite 
practical such as "Optimization of storage and propagation for consistent 
lager fermentation," while others are somewhat more esoteric ("From bright 
field to fluorescence and confocal microscopy."). A good buy for the 
serious student of brewing. (Also available on Amazon.)

In addition, Brewers Publications has just released a new book called 
"Standards of Brewing." This text covers the essence of brewery quality 
control, starting with the statistical underpinnings.  (Did you know that 
"Student's T test" and other basics of statistics were first developed in 
the brewing industry?)  From there, it goes through the entire brewing 
process to talk about the control points where product quality can be 
influenced and ultimately assured.

The author is Charles Bamforth, Ph.D., D.Sc.  Although his name may not be 
familiar to homebrewers, he is a serious heavy hitter who has also taken 
time from his academic career to work in breweries and thus possess a 
real-world perspective. (Examples in the book reflect his interests in 
soccer, baseball and curry.)  He is currently the Anheuser-Busch Professor 
of Malting and Brewing Sciences at UC-Davis---the one US brewing school 
that gives B.S. and M.S. degrees.

While this book deals primarily with commercial beer production technology, 
the advice he gives about when and how to make go-no go decisions to ensure 
good beer have some general applicability to brewing at all levels.  AHA 
members can get it for 30% off list until August 15---check beertown.org.

Cheers,


Ray Daniels
Editor, Zymurgy & The New Brewer
Director, Brewers Publications
ray at aob.org
773-665-1300

Call Customer Service at 888-822-6273 to subscribe or order individual 
magazines.

For more information, see www.beertown.org



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 09:01:47 -0500
From: Kelly Grigg <kgrigg at diamonddata.com>
Subject: RE: The Thirsty Traveler

Oh...and try to catch the one where he goes to Mexico for
the Tequila Show...very interesting!!

Kelly
- -- 


- ------------------

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak.

- ------------------

- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.3ia
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=iRvD
- -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 09:06:45 -0500
From: Kelly Grigg <kgrigg at diamonddata.com>
Subject: RE: Potato Beer

Howdy,
Well, I've actually made one using some red new potatoes as an
adjunct...but, is in the secondary, so haven't tried it yet. It is
supposed to just boost the alcohol without affecting the body or
taste...from what I've read. A lot of people dont' like it for
beer (from the replies I got back from asking about it).

I haven't tried it yet, but, will let you know how it goes.....


I am thinking of trying something unusual...never seen it in a recipe
that I've found so far...but, using sweet potatoes in a beer??  Was
thinking maybe an orange wheat beer...with sweet potato as an adjunct....
 ...thinking of calling it an "Orange Wheat-potato" beer...????

Anyway, thinking of giving this a try in the near future....

Kelly
- -- 


- ------------------

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak.

- ------------------


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 09:26:12 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: RE: Potato Beer

Bill Wible asked about making beer with potatoes.  

I made a spud ale a few months ago and it turned out much better than I
expected.  As you might guess, it is a lightening adjunct with a nice
crispness and, well, a pleasant potato-like (even vodka) character.
It's similar to rice in it's dryness, but has a stronger, more
interesting flavor.  

Potatoes are mostly water so use more than you would think necessary.
The info I found indicated that 2 lbs./5 gallons would be sufficient, so
I used 4 lbs.    I was able to find only one source indicating a
potential extract estimate.  He thought you'd get ~5-6 points/lb/gal.  
http://www.geocities.com/willboyne/nosurrender/SpudBrew.html
I have no idea if this is anywhere near correct, but using those numbers
I did hit my specific gravity target to with-in 1 point.

My procedure was to cut the potatoes into thin slices, boil them for 15
minutes then drain the water.  I let the potatoes cool for a few minutes
so they wouldn't mess up my infusion mash temperature calculations.  My
mash schedule was something like: 120F for 20 minutes, infuse with
enough boiling water to get to 155F for 60 minutes.  I used 1 lb. of
rice hulls in the mash to avoid sticking.  The resulting wort was very
cloudy and full of small potato bits, however, after a good two weeks in
the secondary fermenter, this beer was crystal clear.   I'll definitely
make this one again.  It's a good summer brew.

Here's some entertaining info on the subject:
http://hbd.org/brewery/library/Potato.html

BTW, spent "mashed" potatoes have absolutely no flavor.

Hope this helps,

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Rennerian






Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 10:18:12 -0500
From: "Joseph Marsh" <josephmarsh62 at hotmail.com>
Subject:  RE:Gorden Knight


His Renigade Red is one reason I got started makeing home brew. Had it 
several years ago in Estes Park at the brewery. Never knew the man but he 
will be missed.




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 11:26:37 -0400
From: "Ed Dorn" <edorn at dukes-stein.com>
Subject: re:  Chest freezer problems

Jeff wrote that his chest freezer wasn't working properly.  I went thru
the same experience several months back.  I had two different repair
people out, and they each said essentially the same thing.  The ice
buildup on the inside wall is a result of leaking freon.  Most repair
companies no longer refill freon because the freon used now is
incredibly expensive.  They referred to my situation as a "sealed system
problem."  I'm now the proud owner of a new chest freezer.  Ed Dorn, Va
Beach, VA


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 11:52:09 -0400
From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com
Subject: Food Grade Buckets

Mike offers:
> Chuck asked about food-grade plastic. HDPE 2 are all
> food-grade, its just a matter of what has been stored
> in them previously. If they have never been used to
> store anything then they are ok for storing food.

A note of caution:  my US Plastics (usplastic.com) states that their HDPE
five-gallon buckets are FDA EXCEPT their black buckets.  In general, I'd be
especially careful of anything not made of virgin materials.


Mark in Kalamazoo



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 13:21:48 -0400
From: "TED MAJOR" <tidmarsh at charter.net>
Subject: We should all be so lucky . . .

from www.wired.com :

Is This Heaven? 
Dennis Forth, or "Onk" to his mates in Norfolk, England, 
has been a regular at The Red Hart at Three Holes pub for 
60 years now. Even for a relatively modest tippler like 
Onk, that's a lot of beer. So the grateful publicans at 
the Three Holes have rewarded Onk on the occasion of his 
75th birthday by giving him free beer for the rest of his 
life. Many aspire, but few are chosen. 

Tidmarsh Major
Birmingham, Ala.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 11:20:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bob McDonald <rcmcdonald at yahoo.com>
Subject: Brewing in the Middle East

Greetings to all -

I'm in the process of evaluating a job opportunity that would relocate
me and my family from the states to Amman, Jordan for 2-3 years.  It's
a wonderful country with delightful people, and the job is very
tempting.  Of course, the big uncertainty is -- how could I brew there?
 (along with the little issue our government is having with their
neighbor to the east)

I'm thinking I can import a bulk load of grain and hops - enough for a
year or two, along with my furniture and other household effects, and
import hops and yeast as needed.  

I'm not too sure about how my propane setup would work.  The Jordanians
seem to use propane tanks that look to hold about the same amount of
gas as a US 20# tank, but are taller and skinnier, and seem to mostly
be painted green.  It's likely that these are the same kind of tanks
used in Europe.  Anybody have experience using a US burner with
european-style propane tanks? 

Also, anyone have any experience brewing in Jordan in terms of legal
troubles?  It's a pretty laid back country in terms of alcohol.  As I
doubt there are too many homebrewers in Jordan, I'd be surprised if
this one is high on the AHA's list of governments to lobby to legalize
homebrewing.

If anyone has any info about brewing in Jordan or other middle eastern
countries, I'd love to hear about it.  
Cheers
Bob
Washington D.C.



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 18:46:47 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Too good not to share

"Too Much Science"

"We are getting too scientific nowadays. The tendency to overlay plain 
matters of fact with technical and chemical jargon is on the increase, 
especially amongst the younger school of brewers who consider that it 
sounds well to talk metaphysically; i.e., about something they don't 
clearly understand themselves, neither do those whom they address. Young 
men who wish to be thought clever, talk of chemical terms and formulae 
in a glib manner which excites mingled feelings of derision and pity. 
Chemical science has rendered the art of brewing great service, but 
there is a danger that chemistry will smother brewing. We admit the 
great advantage of a scientific training to a young brewer, but for a 
'high falutin' science, which is mainly composed of a knowlege of words, 
we have a mild contempt."

 From the Australian Brewer's Journal, April 1891.

The guilty parties know who they are!

Cheers, A.J.




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 15:22:33 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_BURLEY at CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Egyptian beer/ Japanese style

Brewsters,

Check out:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/789133.asp?0bl=-0#BODY

for information on Kirin's 8 gallon batch of 10% alcohol Egyptian Beer they
will not sell but will bring to the Master Brewer's Association in Texas in
October.  Could this be the Japanese equivalent of  Octoberfest?

I recall Scottish and Newcastle did something like this a few years ago.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 17:53:28 -0400
From: "Angie and Reif Hammond" <arhammond at attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Chest freezer problems

Jeff Pursley wrote:

"When I examined the chest freezer, I found the walls around the top of
the compartment to be were cold, with some ice forming in one corner.
The walls around the bottom of the compartment were warm."


Jeff,

My chest freezer had the exact same symptoms.  The diagnosis was that
the coils had corroded and were letting the Freon escape.  I could have
had it repaired for twice the cost of a new freezer.  (The repairman is
not associated with a dealer.)  Apparently running it "warm" (not
frozen) led to condensation which accelerated the corrosion.  I am now
in the market for a replacement freezer since my corny kegs do not fit
in fridge.

Reif Hammond
Durham, NH




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 15:52:38 -0600
From: "Erik M. Vanthilt" <vanthilt at attbi.com>
Subject: Sight glass replacement / Homebrew clubs in Denver

On my triple tier converted keg setup, I have a sight glass on the hot
liquor tank. After several batches and due to the excessive heat from the
propane burners, the tube is pretty much shot. The tube is made from an FDA
approved plastic called "Excelon" (etched in tubing) and it appears to be
1/2" O.D. Anyone know where I can get more of this material? I've searched
the web, but all I can find are businesses who either did not respond to my
inquiries, or only do wholesale. Or if anyone has a replacement that would
work better, input would be appreciated.

Also - I'd appreciate anyone who could recommend a good homebrew club in the
Denver area.

TIA

Erik
Denver, CO

vanthilt at attbi.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 15:38:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kevin Crouch <kcrouching at yahoo.com>
Subject: Mash hops recipe tweaking

I am planning a batch of Bitter soon and I'm going to
give hops in the mash a try.  Does anybody have any
pointers on how to adjust an existing hop recipe to
account for this technique?  I am calculating the IBUs
as usual with a first wort formula, but I'm mostly
interested in the flavor extraction; how much if any
late hops should be added to achieve the same balance
that the original recipe yielded?

Much appreciated,
Kevin Crouch
Vancouver, WA



Return to table of contents

---