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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Sellin' recipes ("Colby Fry")
  The Guru Reappears ("Phil Yates")
  Blonde Ale Question ("Berggren, Stefan")
  Fermentation restarted (Alan Meeker)
  Engine Block Fermentation, Potatoes ("Tracy P. Hamilton")
  FW: Split Rock 2002 HB Competition ("Houseman, David L")
  RE: Carboy size (I/T) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
  RE: American Amber Ale (I/T) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
  Oh Bubba,say it isn't so..... ("Jim")
  Carboy size (LJ Vitt)
  acetic acid in beer ("Steve Alexander")
  re: Unfamiliar with lager yeast? (Rama Roberts)
  re: Fermentation restarted after racking to secondary! (Rama Roberts)
  re: deactivation of enzymes (Rama Roberts)
  Rest at 122 deg F for Sierra Nevada Pale Ale Clone ("Menzl's")


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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 08:10:16 -0400
From: "Colby Fry" <colbyfry at pa.net>
Subject: Sellin' recipes

I don't know if anyone else saw this or not, but this guy is selling homebrew
recipes on ebay. Here is the # >>

"Homemade Kentucky Beer Recipe - Homebrew!!
Item # 2043210440
All of the ingredients for this recipes can be purchased from your local
health food store.
Follow directions and be careful - this is very potent.
Makes 15 gallons
Contains: hops, malt, sugar, molasses and yeast
GOOD STUFF!"
I think it is ridiculous..... I get thousands of recipes for free on the
hbd.org ?
The current bid was $1.25
any discussion on this?

Colby Fry





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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:19:56 +1000
From: "Phil Yates" <phil.yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: The Guru Reappears

Graham asks the question:
>By the way are you enter my you beaut comp??????????????.

I'll have to do a bit of creative interpretation here. I think Graham is
asking whether or not I'd like to enter a beer in his tropical beer
competition.

By all means ole son. The only beer though that I can offer is Jill's wheat
special which is all I have had time to make of late. I've been so busy with
Wes offering  such a multitude of malts to Ozzie brewers, I can barely keep
up with Jill's demands! And that's only talking about what she likes to
drink!!!

You know what? I should have given that flying game away a long time ago.
I'm now doing something I enjoy so much more.

Good to hear from you.
Cheers
Phil









:



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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 08:20:35 -0500 
From: "Berggren, Stefan" <stefan_berggren at trekbike.com>
Subject: Blonde Ale Question

Hi All, 

I just brewed a simple extract blonde ale and have some 
quick questions.  The recipe is as follows:

One pound Laaglander Extra Light DME
3 lbs. Northwestern Golden DME
1 pound Northwestern Wheat DME
 .50 lbs of Victory Malt (steeped and removed at 160)
1oz. Hallertauer (60min)
1oz. Hallertauer (30min)
1oz. Saaz(5min)
Wyeast 1007 German ale

Primary fermented at 75-77deg (hot weather raised temp in basement)
Secondary fermented again at 75-77deg for two weeks
O.g. 1047
F.g. 1009-10 (laaglander malt?)

My question is when I kegged it two nights ago, it had a very "green" taste
and almost not quite right (reminded me sort of like warm
Budweiser...blecchhh)  I am wondering if cold conditioning the beer for
two-three weeks will help.  I am not sure if the German ale yeast produced
some esters at its fermentation temps or not.  I have never used this yeast
before and am wondering if anyone else out there has used this yeast?
Anyhow, I am wondering a bit as to how it will turn out.  Could the Victory
malt that was steeped created an off or astringent flavor?  The hops are
present in the mouthfeel perhaps causing that bitter green twang.  It was a
full 5.8gallon boil so I am pretty sure that the extract twang was not
present.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  

Cheers, 

Stefan Berggren
Brewing in the stone cellar
Madison, WI

P.s. Getting Ready for The Great Taste of the Midwest !!!!


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Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:49:47 -0400
From: Alan Meeker <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: Fermentation restarted

Grant asked about fermentation re-start after racking to the secondary:

"...About 6 hours later, fermentation restarted...
My question is this -- is my beer infected?  Why would it start
re-fermenting?"

Grant, I've seen this behavior several times myself. A beer that appears to
have settled down in the primary shows renewed activity following transfer
to the secondary. I'm not sure why this happens, but several possibilities
spring to mind. Firstly, You may be resuspending yeast that, for whatever
reason, flocculated and settled out before "finishing the job" at hand.
Certain yeast strains are notorious for this kind of behavior, and some form
of agitation is often employed with these yeasts to keep them in the game.
Likewise, "rousing" the yeast is also sometimes recommended when fermenting
strong beers, such as barleywines which may, due to the high gravities and
eventual high ethanol production, finish prematurely.

Another possibility is that your yeast were hitting a metabolic wall due to
oxygen starvation. Oxygen is necessary for the building of sterols and
unsaturated fatty acids required for yeast reproduction (plenty of details
on this in the archives if your interested). If your yeast were limited by
an oxygen-deficit, then exposure to room air during racking (and air in the
new headspace) may have allowed them to pick up enough oxygen to kick-start
them.

It is also possible to have the yeast quit in the primary due to too low a
temperature. If the transfer warms the beer up and/or the secondary is
placed in a warmer location this may cause a resumption of activity. Sounds
unlikely in your particular case though.

Probably highly unlikely but, if there were some sort of stratification of
fermentable sugars in the carboy you could have dispersed them during
transfer. This could happen if, for instance, you tried to bump up the
gravity during the primary fermentation by adding something dense like honey
or a sugar syrup that would then settle to the bottom.

Finally, you asked whether or not this means your beer is infected. The good
news is - probably not. At least, not based on the behavior you described.
If you introduced an infection, it would have had to have been one heck of a
large inoculum for you to start seeing activity in just 6 hours! This, plus
the fact that you say you see a decent layer of yeast now on top leads me to
believe that it will turn out fine.

All of this brings up an interesting possibility. If this is a not uncommon
phenomenon, then for those who don't use a secondary it may occur while
racking when bottling or kegging. If the yeast gets "re-activated" in the
final storage container it could lead to some degree of over-carbonation
because the beer wasn't really done fermenting in the first place. If you
know the recipe well, then checking the FG should tell you whether or not
it's truly done and ready for bottling.

Hope this helps

 -Alan





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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 09:34:27 -0500
From: "Tracy P. Hamilton" <chem013 at uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu>
Subject: Engine Block Fermentation, Potatoes

Since fermenting in an engine block is not recommended
lately, and therefore some people have to do something
with the potatoes they planned to make the beer with,
consider:

http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/Humor/GoodEatsHumor.htm

(fairly graphics intensive)

Tracy P. Hamilton
Birmingham Brewmasters



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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 10:52:03 -0400 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: FW: Split Rock 2002 HB Competition

I am pleased to announce that there will be homebrew competition on November
23rd (9am; be there by 8:30am) at the Split Rock Resort in the Poconos in
conjunction with their annual Micro Brew Festival.  Entry fees, $5, will go
to the Multiple Sclerosis charity.  This is a sanctioned competition and
will use the standard BJCP/AHA style guidelines judging all beer, mead and
cider styles.  Entries should be shipped for receipt by November 20th to 
   The Resort at Split Rock 
   c/o Stacey Gould
   Special Events
   One Lake Drive
   Lake Harmony, PA  18624 
Two brown or green bottles with no markings are required.  Any standard
entry forms identifying the brewer and the appropriate entry
category/subcategory are acceptable.  Judges and Stewards will be needed and
they should contact me to secure a position.  Judges and Stewards can hand
carry their entries if they pre-register with payment.  Checks should be
made out to "The Resort At Split Rock."  Judges will receive an entry to the
beer festival or entry to the beer dinner for their efforts and need to
indicate which they wish when they commit to participate.  The BOS winner
will receive a complementary weekend for two at next year's Split Rock Beer
Fest.  But just entering makes you a winner for helping a very good cause.
Plan now to brew for this competition.  Judges/stewards plan to attend.  And
don't forget the Beer Festival itself; a great beer event of its own.  More
information will be made available at the Split Rock web site
www.splitrockresort.com.  

David Houseman
Competition Organizer
housemanfam at earthlink.net


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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 11:01:17 -0400 
From: "Jones, Steve (I/T) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
Subject: RE: Carboy size

Drew, a standard 5 gallon will be fine for a primary for 2.5 gallon batches.
If you choose to do secondary fermentations (storage in a carboy) then that
is where I would use the 2.8. Try racking it over just before it is done
with the primary so that you get a bit of CO2 generation in the secondary.


Steve Jones
Johnson City, TN
[421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian
State of Franklin Homebrewers http://hbd.org/franklin
Proud member of the American Homebrewers Association




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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 11:12:48 -0400 
From: "Jones, Steve (I/T) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
Subject: RE: American Amber Ale

Paul Kensler made some very good comments about the American Amber Ale
style. It is an official BJCP/AHA category now (since 8-99), category 6B.
Here are The BJCP Guidelines for this style, which have a slightly different
view of the style than Paul relates:

Category 6B, American Amber Ale
Aroma: Often a mild to strong hop aroma from dry hopping or late kettle
additions of American hop varieties. Some caramel aroma common. Esters vary
from low to high. Diacetyl medium-high to none. 
Appearance: Light copper to light brown.  
Flavor: Moderate to high hop flavor from American hop varieties.
Malt/bitterness balance can be on either side of even and is more likely to
be on the malt side, but usually not too far from center. Caramel flavor is
moderate to strong. Diacetyl medium-high to none 
Mouthfeel: Body is medium to medium-full. Carbonation typically moderate.  
Overall Impression: Caramel usually balances the bitterness. 
History: Called West Coast amber ales by some authors, this sub-category was
spun-off from the American pale ale style. 
Comments: In the past, this category used to be part of American pale ale.
American amber ales differ from American pale ales not only by being darker
in color, but also in having more caramel flavor and usually being balanced
more evenly even between malt and bitterness 
Ingredients: Pale ale malt, typically American two-row. Medium to dark
crystal malts. American hops, such as Cascade, Centennial, Brewer's Gold,
Columbus and Willamette, but others may also be used. Water can vary in
sulfate and carbonate content 
Commercial Examples: Big Time Atlas Amber, Bell's Amber, Mendocino Red Tail
Ale, Rhino Chaser's American Amber Ale, St. Rogue Red Ale, North Coast Red
Seal Ale. 
Vital Statistics:
OG: 1.045-1.056  FG: 1.010-1.015 
IBU: 20-40 SRM: 11-18 ABV: 4.5-5.7% 
 
Steve Jones
Johnson City, TN
[421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian
State of Franklin Homebrewers http://hbd.org/franklin
Proud member of the American Homebrewers Association



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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 10:35:51 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
From: "Jim" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com>
Subject: Oh Bubba,say it isn't so.....

Mark, in Texas it's Oh Bubba, say it "ain't" so.
Things are sort of busy here in Millsap.  Especially around the ranch.  Been
purty busy preparing for Number 1 Bubba's visit to his spread in Crawford. 
Now contrary to most people's belief that No.1 has quit drinking beer it
just ain't so.  He has just quit buying that's all.  Who could expect the
Pres. to buy.  I was contacted by some of his people and ask to furnish
enough beer to last a month.  The little Missus seems to prefer wheat beer
like Jill and the ladies in the land of Oz.  Rumor has it that "Big Bubba"
will drink most anything even Lone Star like Clay Henry III the beer
drinking Mayor of Lajitas, TX. does.   I did have a special request to brew
up a Dos Equis "XX" clone for President Fox when he visits.
Speaking of Clay Henry III, the Mayor of Lajitas, Mark Tumarkin was
wondering what the boys in the backroom of Bubba's "Millsap Small Engine and
Chainsaw Repair" thought of the trial about to begin in Alpine.  Well let me
tell you, the news about the upcoming trial is just about you can hear on
KBUBBA, "The Radio Ranch", and the local TV station "Channel 1 News"
broadcast out of Paradise.  The local thinking, in Bubba's back room, is
that Jim Bob Hargrove castrated the wrong fellow.  Seems as though Steve
Smith, the guy from Houston running the Lajitas Resort, snatched a beer
right out of Jim Bob's hand and gave it to Clay Henry.  Jim Bob took offense
of this and decided to get revenge by castrating old Clay Henry.  Odds are
if Jim Bob had castrated Steve instead, things would have blown over by now.
 It's sort of common practice to castrate Yankees and Big City Boys in that
part of the country.  Especially when they start messing with the locals. 
You would have thought that if Steve had any brains at all he would have
changed his name to Billy Jack or some other good West Texas name before
going to Lajitas to run their resort.  Steve should be the name of someone
living in Ohio, not Texas.
I did mention that Clay Henry III is a goat didn't I?  Seems as though be
barely won the past election.  His opponents  were an wooden Indian and a
dog named Clyde.  That part of Texas knows how to do elections right. 
Florida needs to send someone there to see how it should be done.  But only
if they can remember to change their name to something good such as Billy
Bob.
Jim Bo Bermingham
Millsap, TX.


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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 10:11:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Carboy size

In HBD#4009, Drew Dunn asked about making small batches in his
usual carboys:

>From: "Dunn, Drew A." 
>Subject: Carboy Size
 
>I am interesting in brewing batches smaller then the "standard" 5 gallon
>size.  I had considered using the same carboy I currently use for my 5
>gallon batches but a friend was concerned about headspace.  He felt that if
>I put 2.5 gallons into a 6.5 gallon carboy there might not be enough CO2
>produced to fill the head space and protect the brew.  I found a 2.8 gallon
>carboy on Beer, Beer & More Beer but was wondering if 3/10th of a gallon
>would be enough headspace for a 2.5 gallon batch.  Does anyone have any
>opinions on this?
 

For primary fermentation, I don't see any problem with the fermenter
being twice the size of the batch.

IMO, more than enough CO2 will be generated, and the CO2 is heavier than
the air that is in the carboy, so the air will be displaced.

Secondary fermentation is another matter.  I suggest using a smaller
secondary fermentater.  CO2 production is low at this time.

I have a few of the 2.8 and 3 gallon carboys.  I find them useful
for meads and wines for odd size batches.  An example, I had 24 lbs of
a specific honey I wanted to use.  So, I made 8 gallons of mead from it.
I have it in 5 gallon and 2.8 gallon carboys.  Yes, it smaller than
8 gallons now - loss to sediment.

However, I tend to make beer in 5, 6 or 10 gallon sizes.



=====
Leo Vitt
Rochester MN



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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 13:43:26 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: acetic acid in beer

Marc Heche asked about acetobacterial infections that seem to be plaguing
his brewing.   A lot of good advice re sanitation was posted but a major
point was missed.    Acetic acid in beer is not diagnostic of an infection
!!  Common brewing yeast will happily convert ethanol to acetic acid given
free oxygen.  I've recently been playing around with White's Irish ale yeast
grown on ethanol as an oxidative carbon source,  for example, and it's happy
as a clam.  Yeast and acetobacteria both require ethanol AND free oxygen to
produce acetic acid.

The immediate problem in a case of acetic acid in beer is that somehow
oxygen has contacted the beer after alcohol has formed and after the
actively fermenting yeast cease to sop up all the free O2.   Until you solve
the post fermentation oxygen problem there will be no cure for the acetic
acid problem.

Plastic ...  I think there is a lot of fear mongering about plastic.   My
only gripe would be that PET bottles permit oxygen thru and so ...

 -S




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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 14:18:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rama Roberts <rama at eng.sun.com>
Subject: re: Unfamiliar with lager yeast?

Parker Dutro writes:
It's been about 9 hours since I pitched, with absolutely no
activity from the airlock. Being that I am unfamiliar with lager yeast
behavior in general, I don't know what to expect. Does it help to keep
temp? Could I have put too much O2 into the wort?

I haven't used lager yeast before either, but it sounds to me like you've
got a bum tube of yeast. You can't put too much 02 in (that's debatable
from what I've read, but it shouldn't cause what you're seeing)- and
keeping the wort warmer should speed things up too.

Check the date on the tube if you still have it and make sure its not too
old. Also, if you got it mail order, perhaps it was subject to hot
temperatures at the post office which killed or cripled most of the cells.

I would give it another day or so, depending on how sanitary your
technique was, then dump it.

- --rama roberts
san francisco bay area







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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 14:25:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rama Roberts <rama at eng.sun.com>
Subject: re: Fermentation restarted after racking to secondary!

Grant Conrad wrote:
My question is this -- is my beer infected?  Why would it start
re-fermenting?

Lots of reasons, infection being one, but not the most likely in my
experience. When you rack to the secondary, you're 'rousing' the yeast,
which is going to cause some more fermentation if there's anything left
for them to chow on. Also, its likely you've introduced some more oxygen
to the wort, which may cause more carbon dioxide production when combined
with more fermentables (not sure about that one though).

I almost always see some signs of fermentation after racking to the
secondary, especially if I did a quick fermentation in the primary with no
rousing.

- --rama roberts
san francisco bay area






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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 14:30:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rama Roberts <rama at eng.sun.com>
Subject: re: deactivation of enzymes

Hans Aikema wrote:
Does anybody know how fast enzymes deactivate?  When I want to use the
beta-amylase at say 1 hour 63 degr.C (145 F) and not so much alfa amylase
and I heat up from 63 degr.C (145 F) to 85 degr. C (185 F) in 5 min., does
that mean I used mainly beta amylase and both are ineffective at the time
the mash reached 85 degr. C (185 F) ? Or is alfa amylase than stil working
during sparging?

Hans-
Once you raise the mash to 175F or higher for 5 or more minutes, the
enzymes should all be deactivated and not continue during sparging. 

One thing to be careful with- 185F is a bit too hot. Anything over 175F
and you risk leaching tannings from the barley husks, which isn't a
flavor you want. 

- --rama roberts
san francisco bay area






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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 20:15:52 -0400
From: "Menzl's" <menzl at concentric.net>
Subject: Rest at 122 deg F for Sierra Nevada Pale Ale Clone

Greetings All!

I am going to be brewing my first all grain batch this weekend
and I am planning on using the recipe for cloning Sierra Nevada
Pale Ale from Tess and Mark Szamatulski's "Clone Brews".  The
recipe calls for 10.33 lbs US 2-Row, 0.5 lbs dextrin malt, and
4 ounces of 60L Crystal Malt.  The mash schedule is 30 minutes at
122 degrees F and then 60 minutes at 150 degrees F.  I have been
doing a lot of study and everything I read indicates that well
modified malts do not need the 122 deg F rest and it may negatively
effect "head".  I am assuming the US 2 row is well modified and I am
not sure about the dextrin malt.  Is this rest at 122 deg F really
needed or should I just do a 90 minute mash at 150 deg F?

Thanks in advance for helping my brewing education!

William Menzl
Midland, Michigan
Unknown Rennerian (not sure how to find out either) but I was at 0,0
for a short time at the Michigan Brewers Guild Summer Beer Festival last
month.  Great time and Great Beer!


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