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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  It's NOT India but... ("Aaron Gallaway")
  HSA and Czech beer (Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rnstad?=)
  FWH: Some defined spurments ("Dr. Pivo")
  Re: Ok, it's in the engine block.  Now what? (Jeff Renner)
  Mechanics of Schmoo (mohrstrom)
  19th Dixie Cup! (Christopher Doyle)
  Classic American Pilsner - Latest easy recipe needed ("Menzl's")
  Hops & schedule for Fullers ESB or Redhook ESB clone? ("Gary Smith")


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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 05:46:39 -0700
From: "Aaron Gallaway" <baseball_junkie at hotmail.com>
Subject: It's NOT India but...

To anyone who has a minute and can help,


     It's me again. Aaron in Japan. Although they call this country 
"developed and industrialized" for the average homebrewer it is the 
equivalent of India though.
     As many know I am getting married in October and am doing everything 
myself. It will be an Oktoberfest theme. My Oktoberfest lager is dong 
WONDERFULLY thanks to Jeff and many others. My hop garden is in FULL Bloom 
and I will cut them down this weekend and hang them to dry for decoration of 
my wedding hall. My sausage stuffing supplies arrived yesterday and 
everything else has fallen into place...EXCEPT the LYE!!! Yes, I said lye. 
And those of you out there who have testified to Jeff's recipe know of what 
I speak. I CANNOT find ANY here and am having a "dilly of pickle" of a time 
finding a source online! I cannot complete the "Piece de resistance"(sorry I 
speak Japanese...NOT FRENCH)...German Pretzels without it. I am not one to 
"settle" when it comes to culinary issue, so I wish not to go the baking 
soda route. SOMEBODY out there MUST have a source for food grade lye. Public 
responses preferred(people with the same dilemma will benefit) but private 
is welcome too. Thankyou for your help and GO MARINERS!!!!!!!!!

EVERY ONE SAY A PRAYER TO THE BASEBALL GODS FOR NO STRIKE!!!!!!!!!!

Aaron in the land of the rising yen





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Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:01:24 +0200 (CEST)
From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rnstad?= <larsbj at stud.ntnu.no>
Subject: HSA and Czech beer

I was recently on a trip with my homebrew club to the Czech Republic
(luckily before the flooding), and visited three breweries (Staropramen,
Budweiser Budvar, and Pilsner Urquell). To our surprise, they all
transferred the wort from the lauter tun through a long line of taps,
through which the hot wort splashed down into a tray below. Take a look at
the following picture from Urquell, the panels on the wall contain the taps. 

http://ketil.froyn.name/med_IMG_2855.JPG

During the tour they showed a video clip of the process, and the wort was
clearly splashed/areated. We tried to ask the guide if this didn't
areate/oxidize the wort, but he didn't know enough about the brewing process
to be able to understand/answer the question (the guides at Staropramen and
Budvar were even less knowledgeable, so we didn't even bother asking).

Does anyone know more about the phenomenon?

Cheers,
Lars Bjornstad
Norway



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Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:41:08 +0200
From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se>
Subject: FWH: Some defined spurments

Fred L Johnson beckons:


>  Anyone else out
> there brewed anything with only a single, FWH addition.  I'd love to
> see a direct comparison of single hopping as FWH versus a bittering
> addition.
>
Probably owning the questionable distinction of first wort hopping
longer than anyone else who contributes here, I do have some similar
thoughts to Fred.

I began FWH not because of some mystical qualities about adding at that
time, but simply because a Czech brewmaster told me their hopping
schedule, and about 20 percent went in direct as they collected the
sparge.

I was just copying, not thinking.   Then again, having done it for over
a decade (and I continue because it makes a much more managable boil...
less kicks, butts, foams and fights  (ie partial hotbreak before the
boil, and less "boiling milk phenomenon")), I have got quite a series of
casual obs about changing hop varieties here and there, and I personally
haven't experienced the "magic" of it.

Maybe I just haven't been observant enough.

Anyhow, here is how I envision setting up a simple 'spurment to see
what's what.

Any proposed improvements on procedures would be welcome.

Anyone actually getting off their hiney and doing something so I don't
have to, would be MORE than welcome.

- --------------

Collect your sparge in one big container so you have a good random mix.

Rack half over to a boiling kettle and mix with noble hops and let sit
for 45 minutes at 70C (other times and temps could be used, but I have
reason for choosing these)

Rack the other half over to another kettle and fire them both up.  Note
how much time it takes to reach boil.

Add an equal ammount of the nobles to the unhopped half upon reaching
boil.

To make sure that total exposure time is the same (the hops have been
longer in the FWH kettle) I'd use a sort on non enzymatic "rule of
thumb" that you are doubling reaction rates for every 10C   (not perhaps
a real "good" rule, or even a specially good "thumb".... but you have to
start somewhere!)

So for the 45' at 70C you'd guess 1/8th of the effectivity of 100C, and
add about 6 minutes to the boil time in the non FWH.  Likewise you could
take the time it took to reach boil from 70C and take a middle number at
85C and you could divide that time by 3 and add it to the non FWH boil
time.

This is all "just in the neighborhood" stuff, but it would at least give
you a "chance" of replicating equal total extraction times, which is not
an entirely insignificant part of the picture.

Cool and ferment side by side and when  mature "triangle" them.

Now IF you get a significant difference at all, it may be time to either
1) refine your experiment to make sure you haven't added other
variables, or 2) pay attention to the tasting notes of the ones who
could perceive a difference.

Now on the other hand, if you can find no significant perceivable
difference, even with this crude methodology, it would sort of seem to
me that folks have been believing in fairy tales.

It wouldn't be the first time.

I've got an open book on this one, as some professional brewers that I
respect believe in the "magic bullet" theory, it's just that
substituting less nobles in the FW doesn't "seem" to affect the final
product for me..... In fact quite the opposite. It has always looked to
me like the later one adds hops the more their individual character is
expressed.......

Just as I originally learned.

So that while I may for example substitute a Nord Brau for a Saaz at FW,
it turns out detrimental to substitute at boil.... it pokes it's weedy
little head through.

But we do know (or should know) how easily we can reconfirm our own
beliefs, and I might quite well be guilty of that....... or else some
others are.

Anyway, it sure would be fun if someone tried something similar to the
above, because the methodlogy of the evidence presented thus far is a
mighty torn fabric (comparing first wort to late additions?)

I am loathe to do "stove top" boils, but I think this is just
interesting enough I may have to do it some day.

Of course a few "extra" data points sure wouldn't hurt.

Come yee brave new brewers and mount the walls of the unknown! Pierce
the armour of the imagined! Cast the gauntlet to your own suppositions!

We all just might learn sumpin'.


Dr. Pivo





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Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:59:48 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Ok, it's in the engine block.  Now what?

John Sarette <j2saret at yahoo.com> wrote:

>Inspired by Jeff Renier's clear, concise and
>enthuastic posting on how to pre-mash corn meal I also
>broke a solem vow (see titanic disaster ale) and
>included a pound of corn meal in the brew.  (It took
>the same five (5!) hours to mash.

I don't understand why you should have had this trouble.  I assume 
that since I inspired you, you used a standard cereal mash.  What 
basis did you use to decide to mash for five hours?  An iodine test? 
As has been recently discussed here, these can be notoriously 
misleading.  If your temperatures are in the right conversion ranges, 
the addition of boiled corn meal should not add to a mash time.  Tell 
me more.

>However I do have some questions about fermenting in
>Steel.  Unlike with the 5.5 gallon carboy I was using
>a primary before, I cannot see any activity.  By this
>point with this yeast and these temps I could expect
>to have blown off about a quart of fluid.  I have no
>activity in my air lock at all what I am asking is:

I ferment all my ales in my 10 gallon aluminum stock pot/hot liquor 
tank with no air lock.  You heed a tight seal on the lid to get 
bubbles out of an air lock.  I am assuming you don't have such a seal 
on your pot, so the gas is just leaking out the edges.

I have no qualms about taking the lid off and looking at the 
fermentation.  I also skim the brown crud off the top of the 
kraeusen.  Since you didn't remove any of the trub, you might want to 
do this.

Another trick is to use plastic wrap over the top of the fermenter. 
I have commercial 18" wide wrap, but you can use two pieces and 
overlap them if you have only 12" wide.  That way you can watch the 
action and decide when to skim and rack.

So my advice is to not worry about looking inside.  After all, lots 
of breweries ferment entirely uncovered.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:43:17 -0400
From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com
Subject: Mechanics of Schmoo

Pete Calinski links us to an article on, "Biotech Yeast Project Explores
the Mechanics of Schmoo"

So, let me get this straight ...

When the yeast have plenty of food, such as in a nice sugary wort, they
forego their carnal pleasures to keep on eating. Is their mating for
reproduction, or just plain fun?  Maybe I need to re-think the way I build
up starters.  Perhaps some romantic music and mood lighting would result in
more slurry?

What happens when the food is gone?  So they start thinking about getting a
little?  Start caving into their base desires?  Rampant pheromones in my
beer?  Maybe we've misunderstood this whole "autolyzation" effect?

I don't want _THAT_ going on in MY carboy!!!  Or, do I?


Mark in Kalamazoo



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Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:52:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: Christopher Doyle <cd691013 at bcm.tmc.edu>
Subject: 19th Dixie Cup!

Dear Homebrewers,

Howdy from Houston, Texas!  My name is Kuyler Doyle and I am writing as
the "Secondary Fermenter" of the Foam Rangers to invite you or your beer
down her for our 19th annual Dixie Cup competition in October.

The Dixie Cup is one of the nation's oldest and largest homebrewing
competitions and is noted for its great mix of irreverent fun as well as
its seriousness about beer.   The theme this year is "Night of the Living
Fred" with special beer category the "Monster Mash" - beer made with
Halloween candy.

This year's events include the BJCP exam, a rooftop potluck dinner,
chocolate and stout "Fred Tasting" with Fred Eckhardt, seminars from James
Hudec of Brenham Brewery, beer author and graphic designer Randy Mosher,
brewer Tony Magee from Lagunitas, author of Brew Chem 101 Lee Janson, and
a pub crawl.  

We divide some of the more popular BJCP beer categories into 41
medal subcategories, giving these beers a better opportunity to win an
award.  We pride ourselves in giving quality judging and feedback at our
competition.  We also give unique trophies for BOS Beer, BOS Mead, and 
most points for the event.  The Dixie Cup is also an MCAB Qualifying
event.

The Foam Rangers would really like to see homebrewers from other
states come to our event and send in their homebrew.  The Deadline for
entries is 10/4-10/11 and the fee is $6. 

Go to www.foamrangers.com for more information on the Dixe Cup and we hope
to see you and your beer here in October!

Sincerely,
Kuyler Doyle
Secondary Fermenter of the Foam Rangers





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Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:14:46 -0400
From: "Menzl's" <menzl at concentric.net>
Subject: Classic American Pilsner - Latest easy recipe needed

My first all grain batch of SNPA clone went so well last weekend that I am
ready to try something new.  Firearm deer season here in Michigan starts
November 15th and the only way to impress the old men I hunt with (Busch
Light drinkers) is to try my hand at a Classic American Pilsner for the
evening card games.  I have been studying Jeff Renner's article at
http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue3.5/renner.html and the
"HBD CAP Experiment" at http://hbd.org/brewola2/.  While I am ready to take
on more than a simple infusion mash, my 5 gallon Gott cooler with false
bottom is not, and doing the entire rest schedule with infusions results in
5 to 6 gallons of water total.  I am looking to see if anyone has a
successful recipe with a similar grain bill (7lbs 6 row and 1.75 lbs flaked
maize) but with rests that can be done with infusion and still fit in my 5
gallon Gott.  I have thought about trying to do the four rest mash on my
Cajun cooker burner but I am not sure how easy it would be to control the
temperature on it without stirring it so much that I risk HSA.  I am not all
that ready to try decoction either but someone may make it sound easy enough
to convince me otherwise.   I am sure that my answer is probably in the
archives but my search skills leave something to be desired.  Any replies,
both HBD posts and private e-mail, are appreciated.

Thanks!

William Menzl
Midland, Michigan [99.8, 344.8] Apparent Rennerian






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Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:57:11 -0500
From: "Gary Smith" <mandolinist at interlync.com>
Subject: Hops & schedule for Fullers ESB or Redhook ESB clone?

Hi,

Love both of these fine ESB's. 

I'd like to give a go at an ESB in either of these 
directions.

Would anyone have a hop schedule (type, ibu & 
when to put them in the boil)?

Heck, if you have the whole recipe worked out & 
wouldn't mind passing it along I'd be overjoyed.

Thanks & BTW,

I'm working up my web pages for my single tier 
rims setup. I'll post the link as soon as I figure out 
Dreamweaver...

Cheers,

Gary

Gary Smith

http://musician.dyndns.org

If you pick up a starving dog and make him 
prosperous,
he will not bite you. This is the principal difference
between a dog and a man.

 - Mark Twain -




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