HOMEBREW Digest #4023 Sat 24 August 2002

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  stuck ferment? (Randy Ricchi)
  Re: re: yeast and schmoo tips ("Pete Calinski")
  Club-only Comps ("H. Dowda")
  Re: flooding in Pilsen ("Pete Calinski")
  Fermentation and Temperature (John Scime)
  Yeast reproduction - important clarification (Alan Meeker)
  RE: Czech floods (Paul Shick)
  IPA, part 2 ("Adam Wead")
  Pilsen ("Bryan Gros")
  Re: Fermentation and Temperature (Demonick)
  Re: Hops & schedule for Fullers ESB or Redhook ESB clone (Paul Kalapathy)
  Exploding Stout (Chuck Doucette)
  Flooding in Pilsen ("Jim")
  ESB/Judging again (Bill Wible)
  Cellar Temps and Building Materials ("Charley Burns")
  Fullers or Redhook (Scott Perfect)
  Re: Fermentation and Temperature (Kent Fletcher)
  Re: Steves Treatise on Mashing (Kevin Crouch)
  Hop Socks and such... ("Todd")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:23:47 -0400 From: Randy Ricchi <randyr at up.net> Subject: stuck ferment? Adam Wead wonders if his fermentation is stuck. Adam, how do you know fermentation stopped completely? Oftentimes fermentation will be faster in the first two or three days, then slow somewhat. That doesn't mean it has stopped fermenting completely. If you're judging by airlock activity, it could be you don't have a great seal on the lid of your fermentor and now that fermentation is slower, the lower volume of CO2 is just leaking through the lid. I wouldn't mess around adding additional yeast now, only if you've let it sit 3 weeks or so and it is still a long way from being done. The less mucking around the better. Wyeast 1056 is a very forgiving yeast and will produce a delicious beer when fermented in the mid 70's as you are. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:48:45 -0400 From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net> Subject: Re: re: yeast and schmoo tips Paul Kensler says: "p.s. - for anyone unfamiliar with "the schmoo", he was a cartoon character from Li'l Abner that got his own show in the 80's. He was a round blobby sort of creature, was white as a sheet, had a fuzzy moustache and could change shapes." I remember some other characteristics. A schmoo was an ideal being. It would clean house for you, drive the kids where ever they needed to do, could turn into money, would set the table, set the oven, then hop in and cook itself and come out tasting like chicken. Al Capp (I believe that was the author of the Li'l Abner cartoon strip) was a political satirist. His daily cartoon strip, in addition to being quite funny, had political or social undertones. Nobody picked up on the comment in my original post: "And I thought schmoo was how you adjusted core memory." At the risk of dating myself, in the days before computers had memory chips, they had core memory. It was a magnetic technology and required that adjustment of the current through the cores. The adjuster attached a oscilloscope current probe to a special loop and looked at the waveform. The current was adjusted until it looked like a schmoo; "round blobby sort of creature". What does that have to do with brewing? Maybe we can adjust the shapes of our schmoos. Nah, why bother. Pete Calinski East Amherst NY Near Buffalo NY *********************************************************** *My goal: * Go through life and never drink the same beer twice. * (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.) *********************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:03:24 -0700 (PDT) From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com> Subject: Club-only Comps Has anyone had their checks cashed from the IPA competition? Much longer and the bank will decline ours because of age. Anyone heard results from the Amer. Lager comp yet? 4th Annual Palmetto State Brewers'Open, September, 28 2002 http://www.sagecat.com/psb/psbo4.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:58:09 -0400 From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net> Subject: Re: flooding in Pilsen I don't know about Pilsen but last week while watching CNN I saw on the scrolling text at the bottom of the screen words to the effect that, "The brewery that was the original Budweiser has restarted brewing after the flooding". I never saw anything else about it. I'm guessing that is the Budvar brewery. Pete Calinski East Amherst NY Near Buffalo NY *********************************************************** *My goal: * Go through life and never drink the same beer twice. * (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.) *********************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:30:49 -0700 (PDT) From: John Scime <jascime at yahoo.com> Subject: Fermentation and Temperature "Adam Wead" <a_wead at hotmail.com> is concerned about the IPA he pitched with 1056 London ale yeast. I have an anecdotal response that Adam can take for what it is worth. On a lovely Canadian winter day back in January (-7 celsius and sunny) Drew Avis helped me get started in all-grain brewing by splitting a batch with me (read: splitting wort with me - he did most of the brewing!). I don't have my notes here, but it was a bitter made with a variety of malts including 2 row, Baird pale, but no crystal. The recipe called for 35 IBU, and our OG was 1.043. I pitched my half onto a 2 day old starter of 1056 London ale yeast at about 5:00 PM. Remember, this was the middle of winter in Canada, so the temperature fluctuations in the house were quite wide, roughly ranging from about 16C at night to about 23C during the day. Anyway, I didn't notice any action that evening before I went to bed and when I got up next day the airlock was bubbling a little, but not too vigorously. By the next day - 36 hours after pitching, it had more or less stopped. I too was pretty worried, but on Drew's advice I left it alone. When I racked to secondary 3 days later, the gravity was about 1.012. Based on this, I concluded that in fact, the fermentation had been mercurial, and that I had missed the major action whilst sleeping at night. FWIW, the beer turned out just fine. On comparing with his own half of the batch, Drew, a BCJP judge, preferred my batch fermented with the 1056 London ale yeast over his fermented with Coopers dry, which seemed too clean for style. Or maybe he was just being kind to a newbie . . . Hope this sets your mind at ease. John Scime Members of Barleyment Ottawa Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:02:02 -0400 From: Alan Meeker <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu> Subject: Yeast reproduction - important clarification Harold Dowda brought to my attention a glaring technical error in my post yesterday on yeast reproduction. The term "Schmoo" refers to a character from the comic Lil' Abner, not Pogo! Mea Culpa. One other point of clarification. I referred to yeasts' multiplying by binary fission, which is not strictly correct (not correct at all, actually). While there are indeed fission yeast, our brewing helpers Saccharomyces cerevisiae are not among them; reproducing instead by budding. -Alan Meeker Lazy Eight Attobrewery Brewery Baltimore, MD "Where the possibilities are infinite" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:41:55 -0500 From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu> Subject: RE: Czech floods Hi all, Peter Ensminger asks about how Plsen fared in the Czech floods. This comes from the August 21 Prague Post (online at www.praguepost.com.) South Bohemia was perhaps the most affected by the floods. Besides Cesky Krumlov, the worst-hit southern districts included Ceske Budejovice, Plzen (Pilsen), Pisek and Strakonice. The worst-hit major city was the south Bohemian capital Ceske Budejovice, which has battled floods since the beginning of August. Eventually the entire city was submerged; the city center came under 1 meter (3 feet) of water. The high water forced the suspension of beer production in the city, which is the home of the original Budweiser. I found several accounts of the flooding in Plzen, but none mention the Urquell brewery. Paul Shick Thinking less harshly of the downpour outside in Cleveland Hts, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:59:17 -0600 From: "Adam Wead" <a_wead at hotmail.com> Subject: IPA, part 2 Thanks for all the advice! The consensus is that the fermentation is fine, and not stuck, and that the temperature is not too high. Funny you should all say that because when I checked on it again yesterday, I noticed that the airlock was leaking. Most of the water had leaked out, which I why I never saw any bubbles. Well, after I put a new airlock in, lo and behold, there was some noticeable activity. Not as much as before, but still some. The gravity was around 23, and I stared with 52. I'm aiming for 16, so I'll wait another week and see. On another topic: What's been people's experience with secondary fermentations of 2 months or more? The reason I ask is I had a batch of Marzen spoil on me when I tried to change the airlock. The airlock broke and the water inside got into the beer and the next day there was mold. Has anyone had problems with using a three-piece airlock on secondary for 3 months (other than the water evaporating)? happy brewing adam Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:33:35 -0400 From: "Bryan Gros"<bryangros at mindspring.com> Subject: Pilsen Peter A. Ensminger asked about the fate of the old Pilsner breweries in Bohemia The news reports I was reading pointed out that the "original Budweiser" brewery (not going to try to spell it!) had stopped production at one point. It was back to brewing about two days later. No mention of the Urquell brewery though. I guess they figured Americans cared more about original Budweiser? - Bryan Bryan Gros bgros at aggienetwork.com www.draughtboard.org Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:12:50 -0700 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Re: Fermentation and Temperature From: "Adam Wead" <a_wead at hotmail.com> >I let the starter go for two days, and it was warm. I could see it >fermenting, but I never noticed a krausen or "head" in the starter jar. Starters tend to ferment out quickly, particularly if warm. The krauesen can easily be missed. The best indicator of starter activity is color. The starter starts a clear brown, and ends up looking like chocolate milk. >The pitch temp was 74, and it was fermenting at 74-76. It's a little on >the high side, but does a few degrees really make that much of a >difference? Yes and no. Wyeast 1056 is fairly stable in its flavor characteristics across a wide temperature range, but 76F is pushing the upper edge of the envelope. One of the reasons to use 1056 is its clean, crisp finish. At a high fermentation temp you will lose some of that cleanliness and crispness. Temperature characteristics vary with the strain. I've noted that some yeast seem to ferment pretty much the same over a range, but once outside that range change quickly. IIRC, Wyeast 1338 is one such. It seems to prefer upper 60s F, and once into the 70s F changes quickly. >Is what's called a "stuck" fermentation? And is it because it's too warm? Au contraire, too warm may simply mean "fermented fast". If your fermenter is a glass carboy fitted with an airlock, how did the airlock behave? Ever note any swirling of gunk in the fermenter. Again, if your fermenter is a glass carboy fitted with an airlock, you can "rouse the yeast", by swirling the green beer, by tipping the carboy and rocking it around. This will swirl up the trub and yeast from the bottom and put it back into suspension for a while. As long as the carboy is sealed and the airlock is working there is no danger of oxidation since the carboy will be full of CO2. Watch for foaming, as you swirl. Rousing the yeast may help squeeze a last few points out of the fermentation. I routinely rouse for 3 days, morning and evening, at the end of my fermentation. Then, I let it sit undisturbed for a day or two before racking off to the secondary or bottling. And, anti-intuitively, I believe that rousing the yeast encourages flocculation and leads to a clearer brew. Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax Seattle, WA demonick at zgi dot com http://www.primetab.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:57:59 -0500 From: Paul Kalapathy <paulk at pixim.com> Subject: Re: Hops & schedule for Fullers ESB or Redhook ESB clone Oddly enough, my last batch was a Redhook ESB clone, and I've got a Fuller's ESB clone in the fermenter today. Both were made from recipes in "Clone Brews" by Mark Szamatulski. I used the all-grain recipe and the Redhook was darned close to a perfect match with the draft version. Everyone wants more of it, to the point where I've nearly emptied my 5 gal keg in under three weeks. I think I'll have to brew that one again... Being new to hbd, I don't know the protocol for passing along recipes from books. I can send along the info separately if you email me. -Paul Kalapathy Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:18:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Doucette <cdoucette61 at yahoo.com> Subject: Exploding Stout I brewed a stout this past Sunday. It had such potential! I used a starter, which was not really too active come pitching time. The wort smelled wonderful, and it had a beautiful black color. The O.G. was 1.070 (corrected for temp). By Monday morning it was showing bubbles in the airlock. I happily carried the fermenter down to the basement (where it is nice and cool) and promptly left town for Nashua, NH on business. When I returned last night, I decided to go down and visit my beer, just to see how it was getting along. I turned the corner to see dried droplets of stout all over the floor surounding the fermenter, the lid of the fermenter half way off ( unsealed, with about a two inch gap half way around the bucket ) and beer in the airlock. I was stunned. I have never had such a strong ferment before. I never even considered using a blow-off tube since I have never needed one before. Do I need to sewer this batch? Is there any hope? I snapped the lid back down tight and left it as it was. I hate to dump it out, but am unsure. It wasn't completely uncovered, but the lid was definately separated from the bucket at least half way around. I am willing to take a chance on it, but don't want to waste my time if there is little chance of getting good beer. Thanks for any help anyone can give me. Chuck Doucette O'Fallon Illinois Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 13:32:00 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: "Jim" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> Subject: Flooding in Pilsen Peter Ensminger was inquiring about the flooding in the Prague area. I don t know about Pilsen but I did read an article about Budvar having to shut down for a brief period due to the floods. The article can be found at the following link. http://www.realbeer.com/news/articles/news-001754.html Jim Bermingham Millsap, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:52:43 -0400 From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> Subject: ESB/Judging again - ESB is no longer considered a "style of beer". It is a trademark of Fuller's. FULLER'S WINS BATTLE OVER BRAND NAME RIGHTS Fuller's, one of Britain's best-known regional brewers, has won a court battle to protect its rights to its flagship brand, ESB. The case was heard in the High Court in London. The dispute was between Fuller's and Dave West, who trades as EastEnders in Calais, France. West has exploited the gap between duty rates on beer in Britain and France by selling large amounts of cheap French beer to Britain in recent years. More recently, he has attempted to register the trademark for a lager labeled ESP in Britain. Fullers claimed that ESP and ESB (short for Extra Special Bitter) were too close for comfort, would confuse consumers, and infringed Fuller's rights to the term ESB. The court held that ESB was not a generic term and was distinctive of Fuller's. http://www.protzonbeer.com/documents/27660-001662.html - No flames for Joe Gerteis. I agree. Make what you like, drink what you like. If it doesn't quite fit into a recognized style or category, so what? Every beer is arguably unique. Similar beers in similar styles share similar characteristics. Certain methods of brewing result in certain characters, flavors, or aromas in the finished beers. The same flavor or aroma can be can considered a good characteristic of one style, but canbe regarded as problematic in a different style. The categories are generalized attempts to classify similar beers for judging purposes, that's all. They don't catch every beer made. It would take an unmanageable set of guidelines with a ton of variables to do that. And the BJCP Style guidelines are meaningless to professional brewers. Professional competitions are not handled by the BJCP (as far as I'm aware) and are judged by a different organization, according to a different set of guidelines, though many of the styles are similarly described. Take Yuengling Lager for example. If this was entered in a BJCP competition as an American Lager, which it is, the first thing the judges would do would be to take off points because it's too dark. If it were entered as 'American Dark Lager', it would lose points for not being dark enough. My guess is it wouldn't get a great score in either category. Yet Yuengling is one of the most popular beers around here, and people give it the ultimate 'judging score' by taking money out of their pocket and buying it, which is the bottom line for a professional brewer. Even though it doesn't fit into a predefined BJCP 'category' exactly. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:02:51 -0700 From: "Charley Burns" <CharleyBurns at SBCGlobal.Net> Subject: Cellar Temps and Building Materials Hey, long time no see, I've been away from the digest and brewing for that matter for about a year. My relatively new home has an excellent area for a beer/wine cellar. Its off the basement surrounded by mostly dirt, under the part of the house that we didn't have a cellar built under. So I've cut a door into the area and have space for a room about 6' deep and up to 14' long/wide and a normal 8' ceiling. My plan at this point is to wood frame it with a brick floor and a window type A/C unit, although I may need something that can get the temperature a bit lower (like around 55F). Thus the 2 questions. 1. Is 55F (great for ales) too cold for wine (red or white)? 2. What materials should I use for the interior walls of the cellar? Charley (Fair Oaks, CA) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:58:45 -0700 From: Scott Perfect <perfect at marzen.llnl.gov> Subject: Fullers or Redhook Gary wants to make an ESB: "I'd like to give a go at an ESB in either of these directions. Would anyone have a hop schedule (type, ibu & when to put them in the boil)? Heck, if you have the whole recipe worked out & wouldn't mind passing it along I'd be overjoyed." - ---------------------------------- Dominick has you covered on grain and hops but just to be sure you are aware - yeast strain is important. Wyeast 1968 is a good bet. Scott Perfect San Ramon, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 15:39:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Fermentation and Temperature Adam Wead is concerned about his fermentation: >I have a 5 gal. batch of IPA that I just pitched on >Monday, Aug. 19. I pitched it from a 500ml starter >of Wyeast 1056, which I had going for 2 days and had >accumulated a good 1/8" of trub at the bottom, but no >krausen. Assuming you made your starter with extract, the layer on the bottom of the starter jar was most likely yeast, not trub. >It was going great until the Wendesday, when I >noticed that the fermentation had stopped >completely. I haven't tested the gravity yet. Is >what's called >a "stuck" fermentation? Well, you didn't mention your OG, but if it's not a really big beer it may have finished. You also didn't mention equipment, are you judging activity solely by airlock bubbles? If the CO2 is escaping elsewhere (lid on a bucket, stopper or cap on a carboy), you won't see bubbles in the airlock. Check your gravity, it's probably done, more or less. >And is it because it's too warm? >The pitch temp was 74, and it was fermenting at 74->76. It's a little on the high side, but does a few >degrees really make that much of a difference? Elevated fermentation temps can lead to a rapid ferment, higher levels of esters. Not necessarily a BAD thing, depending on the style and yeast strain. You were probably a little warm for this particular combination, the telling will be in the tasting. Hope that helps, Cheers! Kent Fletcher brewing in So Cal Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 16:16:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Crouch <kcrouching at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Steves Treatise on Mashing I'm sorry I'm so late on this, I've been in Mexico and then trying to catch up around home. I appreciate the in depth education on mashing and enzymes, however I have a few questions. To my speculation that "The notion that "full starch conversion >can be achieved in 15 minutes" appears to be saturated >in a good deal of commercial brewing rhetoric Steve answers.. It's saturated in reality and not rhetoric Kevin. EBC, IoB and ASBC each have a 'lab' mash regimes which are rather hot and very thin and these regularly produce high levels of extraction and complete conversion *of starch* in relatively short period of time, 5-15 minutes. In our cooler thicker mashes the conversion is slower and the release of starch is slower as well - but not so slow. In an all malt grist with a high percentage of pils or pale-ale type malt you should get a clean iodine test in under 20-25 minutes at saccharification temps." Sounds like some confusion over terminology, Isn't this simply refering to starch in solution? That I believe, but there is quite a bit of starch still in granule form that slowly gelatinizes over the course of the mashing process and can thus can be converted as well. Wouldn't this explain why one can continue to extract more and more dextrins and sugars from grains that are allowed to rest periodically during a sparge? For example, when my extract levels start to dip during runoff, (If I haven't mashed out) I'll let my mash rest 15 minutes or so and the runoff has jumped up dramatically in gravity. OK, so this is based in reality...a reality in a lab. but my homebrewery is a long way from this lab, as are a majority of HBDers. Kevin Crouch Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 17:28:20 -0700 From: "Todd" <bis9170 at hotmail.com> Subject: Hop Socks and such... Hi all: What is the definitive rule-of-thumb, for using pellets in hop bags? I already know for a fact that there is an IBU extraction loss when using bags (vice just throwing the hops in loose), but have never been able to track down a semi-scientific calculation for estimating IBU's while using a hop bag (a.k.a. hop sock). Ideas?? Cheers, Todd Bissell Eye Chart Brewing Company, Imperial Beach, CA (Sorry, I don't do Rennerian) //TSB Return to table of contents
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