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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  RE: in the backwoods of colombia ("Adam Austin")
  Re:  beer X has taste Y ("Joe O'Meara")
  RE: TMS Conicals (Eis) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
  Malto-dextrin pwdr in a tripel (Randy Ricchi)
  Sunlight, Hops, and Outdoor Brewing ("Shawn E Lupold, Ph.D")
  Re: beer X has flavour Y (Jeff Renner)
  Malting & Malto Dextrin Addition ("Dan Listermann")
  Re: Porter Problem-Cold steeping help please (Jeff Renner)
  Pretzel Salt (again) ("Pete Calinski")
  cold steeping and using a coffee maker for brewing (Marc Sedam)
  Oxygen regulator ("Michael O'Donnell")
  Re: Brewing with just the basics.... a simple brewer in a (Dave Kerr)
  Soft or Hard Water ("Michael Hackney")
  RE: yet more SSR/Leviton stuff (Ronald La Borde)
  Steam Clean? (John Sarette)


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Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 23:21:44 -0400
From: "Adam Austin" <aaustin at vt.edu>
Subject: RE: in the backwoods of colombia



>It seems to me you have two options.  That malt extract you found
>would be quite usable if you were able to find packaged enzymes that
>could be used to mash it at 150F to 160F for an hour.

That sounds like a great option!  I'd love to be able to work with the
extract.

> In fact,
>raw unprocessed honey has the enzymes you need but I am not sure
>how much they have so you would have to experiment.

Raw unprocessed honey is readily available. It is relatively inexpensive as
well.  Can you point me to information on how to use the honey for this
process?

>If you
>have tincture of iodine (like from the drugstore) you can test
>for starch conversion - just test on a sample that will be
>thrown out as you do not want to be eating iodine.  If it turns
>really black when you drop iodine on it, there's lots of starch.
>Test before and after for comparison.

I did a before test on some of the dry extract using iodine from a medical
kit.  The iodine was a yellow color on regular table sugar, and black as
night on the dme.

Thanks for the info on malting as well.  I have to admit that while it may
be problimatic, and a bit beyond my skill level, I am really excited to try.
I have about 15 pounds of good quality barley now, and I think I'll start by
trying to malt it as an experiment.

>That's about it.  I think you want about 3% water, which is
>quite dry.

I don't quite follow- could you please clarify what you mean by 3% water?

Thanks a bunch,

Adam



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Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 23:49:16 -0600
From: "Joe O'Meara" <omeara at onewest.net>
Subject: Re:  beer X has taste Y


 Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net> asks the for the following examples of a
specific beer flavour.  e.g. 'flowery hop aroma' or 'diacetyl' or 'sweet in
the finish'.

And here's my two cents worth:

Hops:  Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.  Classic Cascade aroma and flavor...Also,
Bridgeport IPA for dryhopping

Lactobacillus(sp?):  Guiness Stout

Sweet in the finish:  Pyramid Broken Rake.  I don't know if this beer will
be out this year or not, but I fell in love with it last year.

Yeast:  Rolling Rock.  Nuff said.

Adjuncts:  Dare I say Budweiser?  Let it warm up a bit first to get the
green apple smell.

Well, I think that's enough ranting and raving for now.



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Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:18:38 -0400 
From: "Jones, Steve (Eis) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
Subject: RE: TMS Conicals

Bruce, 

The TMS conicals are spun from a single piece - no welds anywhere - and the
bottom is a flat disk around 1 3/4" in diameter. I had a 1/2" half nipple
welded onto the bottom - you do have to drill your own hole.

Steve Jones
Johnson City, TN
[421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian
State of Franklin Homebrewers http://hbd.org/franklin
Proud member of the American Homebrewers Association

Have a suggestion on improving the AHA? email me at stevejones at aob.org




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Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 08:46:47 -0400
From: Randy Ricchi <randyr at up.net>
Subject: Malto-dextrin pwdr in a tripel

Bill from Juneau asked about adding malto-dextrin to his tripel to help
with mouthfeel because the beer finished at 1.010, when he was hoping
for 1.015.

Bill,
Don't bother with the malto-dextrin. Your beer will have plenty of
mouthfeel from proteins and alcohol. If it doesn't seem so right now, it
will by the time it's ready to drink.
Many of my tripels have attenuated to 1.010 and were fine. I prefer a
well-attenuated tripel to one that finishes in the mid to upper teens.



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Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 08:47:21 -0400
From: "Shawn E Lupold, Ph.D" <lupolds at jhmi.edu>
Subject: Sunlight, Hops, and Outdoor Brewing


We all know that sunlight can skunk a bottled beer.  Thanks to my wife's
hatred for the wonderful aroma of homebrewing, I have been banished to
the back porch.  Since then I've brewed several hoppy beers, directly
under the noon sun, and without a lid (due to the ever present boil over
problem).  So far I have yet to get any skunky characters.  Believe me,
I'm not complaining.  My question is:

Can anyone tell me why we get this skunking in a finished beer but not
in boiling wort?  

P.S.-  On the discussion of contamination, I boil and wort chill
outside, with no lid, and have yet to experience any contamination
(knock on wood).  Even with rain falling into the chilled wort!  I think
the key to this is a big yeast starter.  



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Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 09:20:31 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: beer X has flavour Y

Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net> writes from up there in Canada where he 
and John are enjoying all those available Canadian funds we read about

>Our e-club is currently discussing doing an directed tasting, and we'd
>like to start with doing 4 to 6 beers which are good (and perhaps
>pronounced?) examples of a specific beer flavour.  e.g. 'flowery
>hop aroma' or 'diacetyl' or 'sweet in the finish'.
>
>What beer can you recommend for which flavour?

Shepherd Neame's Spitfire and Bishop's Finger (always wondered where 
it had been) often reek of diacetyl, but I don't know if it's 
reliable.  You might check.  I can't enjoy either when it's strong.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 09:44:22 -0400
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Malting & Malto Dextrin Addition

Alan McKay, discussing malting, asks about the way rootlets emerge from
barley corns.  The rootlets sprout directly from one side of the corn.  The
arcospire forms at the same end, but goes in the opposite direction from the
rootlets sliding under the husk.  The degree of malt modification is gaged
by how far along the corn's length the arcospire has been allowed to
progress before kilning.

Bill in Juneau asks about adding maltodextrin to raise final gravity.  Very
little malto dextrin is fermentable so it can be added at any time including
at bottling.  There is no real "need" to boil it any more than there is a
"need" to boil priming sugar unless you have reason to believe that it is
contaminated somehow although boiling, or at least dilution in water, does
make mixing easier.

To raise the final gravity from 1.010 to 1.015 for five gallons will require
about 5 points * 5 gallons / 45 points per pound = .36 pounds - about a
third of a pound or a cup's volume.

Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com

Free shipping for orders greater than $35
and East of the Mighty Miss.







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Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 09:43:08 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Porter Problem-Cold steeping help please

>"John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca> writes from Montreal, Canada
>Subject: Porter Problem-Cold steeping help please
>
>Hi all,
>
>Is there a way to darken a beer once it is already in the fermenter? any
>idea if that cold steeping technique can be added once the yeast is working?

I have made a hot water extract of dark malt in the past to darken an
anemic looking brew, so I would think that cold extract would work
fine.

>it looked darker when i was filling the fermenter etc...
>i dont get it

Don't forget that suspended yeast can make wort/beer look a lot
lighter.  You might want to wait until it clears to make a color
adjustment.


Here is Mary Anne Gruber's cold steep technique from the Briess
Malting Co. September-October 2000 newsletter" at
http://www.briessmalting.com/tips%20from%20techs/coldwater.htm
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Tips from the techs:
Cold water extraction eliminates tannins:

"Within minutes after adding a highly roasted specialty malt to the boil, color
and flavor is leached.  Unfortunately, if the boil is too rigorous or long
there's also the risk of leaching tannins from the husks of the kernels into
your beer-causing an astringent or husky flavor which is undesirable in many
styles.  Cold water extraction can eliminate that problem, according to Briess'
Technical Services Director Mary Anne Gruber.  "By 'cold' I mean room
temperature," Mary Anne explained, "and plan ahead.  Start steeping the
specialty grain the day before you brew and let it steep overnight-for 12-18
hours."  Steep with sanitized water-enough to cover the grain plus several
inches.  After the steep is complete, the extract can be added either at the
boil, the extract and grain can all be added so that the spent grain will be
collected with the rest of the trub.

"If adding the extract to the fermenter, decant the extract then, if necessary,
add some sanitized water to the spent grain and decant again so as not to lose
any of the extract that you've steeped.  Mary Anne recommends using a coarse
grind if you choose cold water extraction.  Since there is no enzyme activity,
"you're not going to achieve much more with a fine grind," she advised. And
it's going to be more difficult to remove the spent grain.  "Cold water
extraction takes more time," Mary Anne continued.  "But it achieves more flavor
from a highly roasted malt."  Highly roasted specialty malts domestically
produced by Briess Malting Co. include: Caramel Malts, Victory, Special Roast,
Chocolate, Dark Chocolate, Extra Special, and Black Malt. We also make Roasted
Barley and Black Barley."

Hope this helps.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:25:43 -0400
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: Pretzel Salt (again)

If you can't find pretzel salt, in a pinch (pardon the pun), you can get
Mrs. T's Margarita salt.  Found it in the mix drink section.

It is larger grains than table salt but not as large as some pretzel salt I
have seen.

Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


***********************************************************
*My goal:
*      Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
*     (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************



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Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:18:01 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: cold steeping and using a coffee maker for brewing

John asks about bumping up the color in his brew after the fact...

I have a pretty straightforward suggestion which should work.

1)  Get some dehusked Carafa III malt.  I just used a POUND of this in 5 
gallons of schwarzbier and it was a wonderful flavor.  For your needs a 
pound may be too much.  But four ounces might work well.  You want the 
color but not as much flavor.

2)  Four ounces (by weight) is convenient.  The beauty of the Carafa III 
malt is that when you crush it it looks like coffee grounds.  You can, 
in fact, grind it in a coffee grinder since there's no husk and no worry 
about extracting husk tannins.  Strangely enough, four ounces is a 
volume which will conveniently fit in a normal 12 cup coffee maker.  See 
where I'm headed...

3)  Make a pot of Carafa coffee!  Put the ground Carafa in the filter 
and run a pot of coffee. Pour the contents into your fermenter when 
cool.  If you're worried about diluting the beer, add some brown sugar 
(half-pound??) to the Carafa coffee to try and match gravity.

I've done this with porters (though not with carafa) when they weren't 
roasty enough and it works great.  Also a great way to make extract + 
specialty grain brews.  One pound of specialty grains would be four pots 
of "specialty grain coffee" which can then be used to help dissolve the 
malt extract without scorching, since the coffee maker will produce 
liquid around 170-190F.

I've also run water through a coffee maker to make some quick sparge 
water on the fly (if I've miscalculated).  Also great for 
extract+specialty grain brewing if you have too much grain to use the 
coffee maker without getting mad.  Just remember that this is only 
useful for grains which don't have enzymes and the hot water steep is to 
get the "goodies" out.  You will not "extract" (nyuk, nyuk) any value 
out of this process using Munich, pale, pilsner, vienna, and other 
enzymatic malts which require mashing.

Cheers!

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




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Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 08:21:58 -0700
From: "Michael O'Donnell" <mooseo at stanford.edu>
Subject: Oxygen regulator 


>
>But the fact is that O2 is commonly used in welding,

Exactly right.  If you go to a welding store, they usually sell you all the 
O2 you want without question.  They are a good place to get CO2 for kegs 
too.  You don't need medical-grade O2 for brewing or most other 
applications.  The difference between medical and welding grade is not in 
the quality of the gas but in the quality of tank-handling and 
record-keeping.  As has been discussed (beaten?) to submission on this list 
(or try a scuba-diving list if you really want flying sparks!) the chance 
for contamination in welding grade is very low.  Certainly nothing to worry 
about if you aren't actually breathing the stuff... and many divers breath 
welding grade underwater all the time to save money.

As for a regulator, you can pick one of those up at the welding store as 
well, they may even be able to repair your old one.  A new one is probably 
around $40 (from 
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=35225 for 
instance ).

The disposable oxygen tanks people have mentioned here are available at 
most hardware stores... look in the section that has propane torches.  A 
large store might even have replacements for the little regulators to 
operate them, or you can find them at most homebrew stores.

cheers,
mike
Pacific Grove, CA



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Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 09:41:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Kerr <dave_kerr2001 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Brewing with just the basics.... a simple brewer in a 

If manpower is not an issue, have your crew chew
mouthsful (mouthfuls?) of raw barley and spit into the
mashtun - saliva has loads of amylase, doesnt it?  



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Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:14:18 -0400
From: "Michael Hackney" <mhackney at micromationsciences.com>
Subject: Soft or Hard Water

I recently moved from city water (Cherry Hill) to well water in Shamong, NJ.
While mashing with Cherry Hill water, I never gave to much thought to the
water or the pH, considering the water tasted good and my extraction
rates were very good.  In Shamong, I know I have hard water that changes
greatly once it goes through my ion/exchange water softener.  In regards to
mashing, as it relates to extraction efficiency, (keeping all else equal) is
my best bet to perform a pH test on the water and adjust if needed.  If so,
are
pH strips accurate enough to obtain these results and what additives and how
much of it do I add to the water to compensate to put the pH in the correct
range.

Michael Hackney





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Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:08:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ronald La Borde <pivoron at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: yet more SSR/Leviton stuff

>From: mailto:steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net

>
>Steve Alexander answers Ken Fletcher,
>
>>The Leviton High Current GFI is basically a 120 v.
>GFI with an external
>>current transformer.
>
>There is a sense transformer - but no current
>transformer.
>
>[...]
>>A SSR acts as a single pole switch, so it cannot
>>be used for GFI purposes. 
>
>[...]
>No -  SSRs are not acceptable as a GFI interrupter
>relay probably
>because either their failure mode (shorted in some
>cases) as Wayne
>Holder suggested or their time to interrupt which is
>often up to half a
>cycle  (8.33ms at 60hz) in this sort of power
>application.
 
Well this makes sense.  I wonder if the GFI will
operate with the SSR,
perhaps without all the desired safety aspects.
Operate, as opposed to
being not acceptable.

Would it be possible to place a resistive load in
place of the contactor
coil, with the SSR drive tapped off in parallel?

My real question is where can one buy a 240 volt GFI
for less
than the cost of a conical fermenter.

Oh well, one can protect 'some of the people all of
the time, all of
the people some of the time, but not all of the people
all of the
time' :>)))

Ron


=====
Ron
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde



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Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:04:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Sarette <j2saret at yahoo.com>
Subject: Steam Clean?

It occurred to me as I heated 7 gallons of water to
boiling on my gas stove to sanitize my new affordable
conical fermenter (thanks to my lovely and non-beer
drinking wife)
That steam might be the way to go to clean and
sanitize my now all stainless and plastic brewing
equipment.  I would not want to use bleach in my new
conical as it might corrode the spigots.  I know from
reading your discussions that star san, idophor and
PBW are options but they are only available in small
quantities locally or by mail order.  In either case
the price is high.  Steam should do the trick but what
steam generator should I use?  I'm thinking about the
steam buggy for about 60 usd but I'am wondering if any
one has/is using steam to clean and sanitize.  What
should I take into account when purchasing 
equipment.  I don't need much.  I have stainless steel
kettles from 2 to 6.5 gal and the 6.5 gallon conical
fermentor.  I don't intend to ever brew in greater
than 5 gallon batches.
Any experiences/suggestions will be greatly
appreciated

John
j2saret at yahoo.com
(in the old french quarter of the scandinavian state)



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