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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Bottle Labels or Label Glue for Home Brew (Mike Harkness)
  Re: Secondary fermentation (Jeff Renner)
  Mindnumbingly Simple Labels ("Eric R. Theiner")
  Teach a Friend to Homebrew Day ("Gary Glass")
  scottish ale yeast, mash hopped barleywine ("Czerpak, Pete")
  RE: Secondary, fusels (Kevin Crouch)
  Re: Bottle Labels or Label Glue for Home Brew (Alan Davies)
  Yuengling (pronounced Yeng'-ling) (Marc Sedam)
  FW: Permanently Marking Stainless/Glass & Fluid Gauges ("Hedglin, Nils A")
  HBDer Looking for Wine links ("Jay Wirsig")


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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 01:55:38 -0500
From: Mike Harkness <mharknes at umd.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Bottle Labels or Label Glue for Home Brew

After trying several different glue solution, I use regular old milk as 
my glue (any will do).  You can print the labels on an ink jet and do 
the Kinko's coping thing (my preferred method). My best results have 
come with 20 or 24 paper anything heavier gets difficult to work with. 
To apply the laels I use a small 1/2 to 1 inch paint brush to coat the 
back of the label and apply it to the bottle.  The labels are very easy 
to remove by wetting with running water for a few seconds and the label 
will literally fally off. This does create a problem when the homebrew 
will be in ice or another wet environment (I have not had any problems 
with them falling off in a refrigerator), in this case I coat the labels 
(before cutting them) VERY lightly with a spray on polyurethane which 
makes the labels water proof.  The labels stay on really well even when 
submerged for long periods but can be easily removed after about a 10 
minute soak and lifting a corner to peel the label off the bottle.   
This technique also lets you print the labels on an ink jet and make 
them run proof as well.

Hope this helps.

Mike Harkness
Howell, Michigan



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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:29:00 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Secondary fermentation

Kevin Crouch <kcrouching at yahoo.com> of Vancouver, WA writes about the 
continuing discussion of secondary fermentation.  Here are some of my 
thoughts.

Secondary fermentation is an old term from English brewing when very 
slow fermenting bacteria and/or wild yeast began their noticeable 
fermentation after the primary fermentation by brewers yeast, 
Saccharomyces cerevisae was completed.  This was poorly  understood, 
as was all of fermentation, until the late 19th century. 
Brettanomyces species are one group of yeast that was isolated from 
this secondary fermentation, as I recall from an old British brewing 
text from the 1930's, and no doubt Lactobacillus was as well.  This 
secondary fermentation could take place in casks, bottles or large 
vats such as those used by 18th and 19th century London porter 
brewers.

We don't much get or want get these secondary fermentations in our 
beers nowadays (although my "solera" ale is one exception), but we 
continue to use the term for the period after the most active S. 
cerevisae fermentation is over.  As Kevin mentioned, it is a chance 
to rack the green beer off trub, dead cells, and other unwanted 
sediment and to allow the beer with a minimum of potentially 
problematic headspace as well.  Any continuing fermentation is not 
secondary in the old sense but rather a continuation of the first. 
It can, however, continue for quite a long time if there are slow 
fermenting complex sugars (dextrins).

>the homebrewer
>might choose to "drop" his or her beer <snip>  Dropping
>is the practice of siphoning the beer from beneath the
>head, which contains those nasy hop-headache resins

Never heard that hop resins cause headaches - can you document this? 
I believe that fermentation with the cold break can produce more 
fusel oils (higher alcohols), which are implicated in headaches.

>Dropping is
>usually executed just as the primary starts to slow,
>before the head subsides, at around 2/3 attenuation.

Dropping as I have heard it used means racking off the trub, etc. 
with aeration to invigorate the yeast as well.  This is done 
traditionally in Britain at about 24 hours at high kraeusen, or at 
the rocky head or cauliflower head stage.  At this point, adding O2 
to the yeast is not a problem for the most part (but it can raise 
diacetyl levels, and may be beneficial to some yeasts that need it. 
Dropping, at least with aeration, at the later stage you mention, 
would seem to me to introducing O2 at a point where it would lead to 
off flavors (such as aldehydes) and staling.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:10:30 -0500
From: "Eric R. Theiner" <rickdude02 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Mindnumbingly Simple Labels

This is a method I use for when I give wine as gifts.  (Unfortunately, I 
don't give my homebrew as gifts because my friends who appreciate it will 
already be drinking it with me.  And the remote parts of my family just 
don't understand what good beer is all about.)

Go to the stationary store and pick up some of those pens that write in 
gold or silver.  They write very well on dry glass and, here's the kicker, 
look "artsy."  Don't get me wrong-- I am not artistic by any stretch of the 
imagination, and it is a struggle for me to write legibly.  But quickly 
scripting something like "Petite Syrah; Vintage 2002" on one side and a 
"Happy Holidays!" on the other takes about 30 seconds per bottle.  Follow 
it with some squiggles, arcs, and circles arranged to approximate grapes on 
the vine (which could easily become hops) and you have a very personal bottle.

I send out my best wines for the holidays (really-- the stuff is great), 
but what I get comments on is almost always the bottles.  If it was crayon 
on paper, it would get a "B" for a first grader, but on a bottle with gold 
or silver ink, it gets raves.

Rick Theiner
LOGIC, Inc.
www.ecologiccleansers.com




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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 08:30:36 -0700
From: "Gary Glass" <gary at aob.org>
Subject: Teach a Friend to Homebrew Day

Just a reminder that this upcoming Saturday, November 2, is the American
Homebrewers Association's 4th annual Teach a Friend to Homebrew Day, so get
ready to spread the love!  We already have over 100 sites registered.

Details and the registration form are available at
http://www.beertown.org/AHA/teachbrew/teachday.htm.

Cheers!

Gary Glass, Project Coordinator
Association of Brewers
888-U-CAN-BREW
(303) 447-0816 x 121
gary at aob.org
www.beertown.org

Boulder, CO
[1126.8, 262] Rennerian




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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 11:54:10 -0500
From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com>
Subject: scottish ale yeast, mash hopped barleywine

There has been some talk of the White Labs Edinburgh yeast lately (Darrell,
etc).

I have tried the White Labs and Wyeast versions for wee-heavies and much
prefer the Wyeast version.  It seems to perform better at cooler
temperatures and have more of the charateristics I like.  The White Labs
unfortunately didn't meet my expectataions and seemed different as well as
far as origin although these weren't tried on identical worts.

Also, in the quest for more experimentation, I mashhopped an american-style
barleywine this past weekend with CRystal and Fuggles hops at 3 oz total for
5 gallons.  NOt wanting to give-in to Marc Sedam entirely, I did throw in 2
oz of aroma hops at knockout though.  BIttering were 2 oz of Magnum and 1 oz
of Centennial.  We'll see in a few weeks.  Yeast was White Labs version of
Fullers ESB from a previous batch slurry.

Thanks,
Pete Czerpak
albany, NY  



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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:26:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Kevin Crouch <kcrouching at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Secondary, fusels

Thanks, Jeff for calling me on this...

>>the homebrewer
>>might choose to "drop" his or her beer <snip> 
>Dropping
>>is the practice of siphoning the beer from beneath
the
>>head, which contains those nasy hop-headache resins

>Never heard that hop resins cause headaches - can you
>document this? 
>I believe that fermentation with the cold break can
>produce more 
>fusel oils (higher alcohols), which are implicated in
>headaches.

Yes, sorry, I mispoke.  I meant to refer to the fusel
oils produced during some fermentations that, as I
understand, are held withing the krausen.  Don't know
where that came from. Ironically,  hops are said to
help alleviate migraines!

>>Dropping is
>>usually executed just as the primary starts to slow,
>>before the head subsides, at around 2/3 attenuation.

>Dropping, at least with aeration, at the later stage
you mention, 
>would seem to me to introducing O2 at a point where
it would lead to 
>off flavors (such as aldehydes) and staling.

I'm not exactly sure why you consider this a later
stage.  Most yeast I have observed are just at the
tail-end of high krausen at this point. For a beer
with an OG of 1046 and FG of 1012, this would put the
beer down at around 1023.  Also,  and I know this is
going to balk at conventional wisdom, but I
experimented with late-stage aeration last batch and
the results might surprise you.  At about 1016 I
inserted an aeration stone and juiced one of my
fermenters with, yes, OXYGEN.   After 3 weeks (1 in
the fermenter and 2 in a keg) this beer has shown no
staling or aldehyde production.  It is, in fact, a
delicious bitter with rich malt, citrus and a healthy
dose of diacetyl. I do notice some flavor differences
between the oxygenated beer and the control,  but this
mostly seems to be limited to some additional
diacetyl.  I've seen some sentences that gave me pause
in brewing literature, such as in the March '95
edition of Brewing Techniques Troubleshooter in which
Dave Miller suggest reaerating the wort in the case of
a stuck fermentation.  He states that "The most likely
result of reaeration will be an increased level of
diacetyl in the finished beer."  I've also read that
some British brewers circulate their fermenting beer
by spraying it back on top of the head, though I don't
know when they kill this process. The key here seems
to be that the yeast must have enough nutrients left
to use the oxygen for growth, otherwise autolysis
might begin and the oxygen will go unused.  

Kevin Crouch
Vancouver, WA







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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:24:50 -0500
From: Alan Davies <aland at steltor.com>
Subject: Re: Bottle Labels or Label Glue for Home Brew

A small amount of milk brushed onto the back of the label
works too. Doesn't seem to cause Inkjet ink to run. Sticks
almost too well, but leaves no sticky residue (like glue
can) after a quick soak in hot water.



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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:38:40 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: Yuengling (pronounced Yeng'-ling)

Another NC brewer is looking for the magic of Yuengling...well I do declare!

Here's my recipe.  It comes pretty damn close.

5 gallons
4.5 lbs 2-row pils malt
2 lbs light Munich malt
2lbs corn (flaked, grits, polenta...whatever)
mash hop with 3oz Crystal

Hops
0.75oz Horizon pellets (~12%aa) for 60 mins

Yeast
Either WhiteLabs German Bock yeast or Saflager S-23 dry lager yeast work 
well

Single step infusion at 148F.  If you're doing a cereal mash, I cool it 
down to at least 160F before adding.  As long as the maize flakes are 
fresh, they taste identical, esp. since this recipe has lots of Munich 
malt.  In my system I continuously recirculate the mash and direct fire 
the kettle to bring the temps up to mash out around 175F.  So I suppose 
you could do a multi-step mash, but I think the key is LOTS of time in 
the low temps to get a well attenuated beer.

That's pretty much it.  Enjoy!

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Associate Director
Office of Technology Development
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
308 Bynum Hall; CB# 4105
Chapel Hill, NC  27599-4105

919.966.3929  (phone)
919.962.0646  (fax)
OTD site :  http://www.research.unc.edu/otd
Monthly Seminar Info:  http://www.research.unc.edu/otd/seminar/





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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:32:03 -0800
From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com>
Subject: FW: Permanently Marking Stainless/Glass & Fluid Gauges

> Hi,
>   Does anyone have ideas how I can safely mark the inside of a 
> stainless steel pot?  I brewed a batch yesterday that I was quite 
> pleased with, hit the OG on the nose.  But, I wasn't sure what 
> my starting or ending volumes were since my brewing pot & most 
> of my carboys aren't marked.  I'm guessing I started out with 
> about 7gal & ended with 5, but that seems a bit high evaporation.
> I've marked the 5 gal point on some of my carboys with electrical 
> tape since it sticks when wet, but I'm not sure how to mark my 
> pot.  I know I don't want to scratch the inside of the pot to 
> mark it since it would be a bacteria haven.  I've thought about 
> using a permanent marker (Sharpie) for both the carboys & inside 
> of the pot, but am worried the ink would leech off the pot after 
> a while.  Any ideas?
>   Also, I've always thought having a some sort of fluid gauge 
> would be helpful, like on the outlet of the hot liquor tank, so 
> you can know exactly how much water's gone into your mash tun.  
> Anyone know of a gauge like this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Nils Hedglin
> Sacramento, CA
> [1978.7, 275.3] Apparent Rennerian
> (Still recovering from the BJCP exam)
> 
> PS-I'm not sure if I asked this already, but have the text 
> formatting requirements for posting to the list changed?  I have 
> to manually format my messages to 80 characters/line.  I don't 
> remember having to do that before.  This is the 4th time I've
tried to send this message.


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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 20:31:33 -0500
From: "Jay Wirsig" <Jay.Wirsig at usa.dupont.com>
Subject: HBDer Looking for Wine links

I've recently re-located to the Santa Barbara Ca. I'm an experienced all
grain brewer  who would also like to learn how to make wine from Grapes.  I
have a source of grapes, but have no clue about wine making.  the only
decision to date is that I want to make a red wine.  I can't seem to find
the HBD equivalent for wine making.  Can anyone help me?
>>Jay



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