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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Update on Beer Pouches ("Jeff Stith")
  RE: Bazooka Screen ("Wayne Holder")
  Re: Re: Water Softener Using Potassium Chloride (Teresa Knezek)
  Water analysis for Pickerington Ohio? (FRASERJ)
  Ranco controller (Pete)
  Short Mash? ("jeff preston")
  Apparent Rennerian ("Don Scholl")
  beer engine! (Teresa Knezek)
  controller for light bulb. (LJ Vitt)
  (no subject) ("A. J. delange")
  Disposable aeration. (Wendy & Reuben Filsell)
  The Trouble With Trub ("John Gubbins")


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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:35:26 -0600
From: "Jeff Stith" <jstith at kc.rr.com>
Subject: Update on Beer Pouches

I brought home the Backpacker Magazine from work today so I could provide
more info.  I still have not heard directly from the company and the email I
sent to them but here's the short article...

"Packin' Pilsner"
by Melissa DeVaughn
Backpacker magazine October, 2002

Hike up mountain. Pitch camp. Chill beer in snow bank.  Now that's
backpacking.

Okay, we confess.  We've lugged a few brews into the backcountry.  What
better way to celebrate a tough day on the trail than with your favorite ale
chilled in a mountain stream?  Only one problem: Transporting cans and glass
bottles.  The former tend to explode.  The latter are just plain heavy.

Now there's a better way.  After watching his daughter sip from a Capri Sun
fruit drink pouch, Anchorage brewer Kevin Tubbs came up with the idea for
Incan Brew Beer-In-A-Bag pouches.  "Alaska has the most microbreweries per
capita of anywhere in the country, and I wanted the little guys to have an
inexpensive way to package their beers without investing in a bottle line,"
Tubbs expalins.  To his surprise, the pack friendly pouches caught on almost
immediately with Alaska hikers.  Light, strong and reusable, the foil
pouches come in 16, 22 and 64 ounce sizes.  With no exposure to light or air
and a taste barrier that won't deteriorate, the Incan's contents should last
indefinitely.  We sampled a pale ale from Great Bear Brewing Company and it
tasted as good as any beer from a bottle.  How do you get your
beer-in-a-bag?  Contact one of 80 breweries in Alaska and the Pacific
Northwest that use the bags or buy the beer in local stores.

Contact: Yukon Spirits, (907) 569-3800 or visit
http://incanpouch.tripod.com.

My though is that if they'll sell to microbreweries, they'd surely be able
to sell to the casual or obsessed home brewer also.  Like I said, my email
to them from yesterday hasn't been answered yet.  If anyone else tries to
contact them and gets an answer/prices, please let me know.  I got more info
from their Web site than just from this article.

Jeff Stith
Lee's Summit, Missouri





"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

 -Edmund Burke




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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:57:50 -0800
From: "Wayne Holder" <zymie at charter.net>
Subject: RE: Bazooka Screen

Tom Asks:

"I bought a bazooka screen for my brew pot.  I've found that the screen is
longer than the diameter of my kettle.  Is it OK to bend the screen to make
it fit? "

Go for it Tom, or get a larger kettle ;^).

Wayne Holder AKA Zymie
Long Beach CA
http://www.zymico.com



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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:10:51 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Water Softener Using Potassium Chloride

On or thereabout 11/23/02, John & Joy Vaughn spoke thusly:
At 12:26 AM -0500 11/23/02, Request Address Only - No Articles wrote:
>The softener has removed the iron .  Todd Snyder suggested
>(off-line) that I aerate the water, pre-softener, to oxidize the iron and
>decant off the water.

I think my well water (near Fairbanks, AK) has the same "clear water 
iron" problem you describe. I believe it is caused by "iron bacteria" 
which take the iron in the water, and metabolise/oxidize it somehow. 
(I researched this online, and can find the links again, if you like).

If you drain the water out of your hot water heater, does the water 
from the bottom of the heater tank come out orange? Does the inside 
of the toilet tank grow an orange "slimy" coating on the porcelain? 
That's what our water does.

I understand that this problem can be solved with an ultraviolet 
anti-bacterial water filter system (a few hundred dollars), or -- for 
brewing purposes -- the local homebrew shop recommended boiling my 
brewing water the night before, and letting it settle overnight. If 
you boil 5.5 to 6 gallons of water, you can pour off 5 gallons of 
clean water the next day, and leave the rusty-looking sediment behind.

If you have the same problem I do, the hot water will kill the 
bacteria, and the sediment in the pot ought to look rusty... same 
reason the water at the bottom of my hot water heater comes out 
orange.
- -- 
:: Teresa ::
http://rant.mivox.com/

"The real universe is always one step beyond logic."
	-- Frank Herbert, Dune


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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 08:06:29 -0500
From: FRASERJ at Nationwide.com
Subject: Water analysis for Pickerington Ohio?

D'oh!

Brewing this weekend, moved into new house last weekend, new county, new
water supplier and failed to get the water analysis during the week!  Any
brewmeisters out there have the analysis for Pickerington Ohio?

Thanks!

John M. Fraser
http://rims-brewing.tripod.com





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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:34:46 -0600
From: Pete <pfahle at charter.net>
Subject: Ranco controller

Hi all
                   This is my first post so hope everything goes ok.
                   In response to Bill Tobler's post the Ranco dual
controller is available at Grainger at a greatly reduced price , it is
Grainger Part# 3zp82. I am not connected with Grainger in any way.

Pete Fahle
St. Charles , Mo
682.3    34.4 Rennerian



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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:32:17 -0800
From: "jeff preston" <brewingales at msn.com>
Subject: Short Mash?


Chris, I talked to a lab tech. who works at a barley research lab who says 
they get complete conversion in as little as 15 min. Maybe under a lab 
condition it works, but in my experience a 90 min rest produces a much 
better tasting and stable beer. They also mill the grain quite fine compared 
to homebrewing standards.






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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:13:25 -0500
From: "Don Scholl" <dws at engineeringdimensions.com>
Subject: Apparent Rennerian

How do I go about figuring this out? I live in Muskegon, MI.

Thanks,
Don Scholl
Muskegon, Michigan


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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 11:16:28 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: beer engine!

Hooray! Just won a lovely beer engine from N. Yorkshire on ebay... 
and a mini keg is in the mail now. If I decide to pay for airmail 
shipping on the engine, I may be able to test the 
mini-keg/beer-engine system with the amber ale I'm racking to 
secondary this weekend!

Now, to find an inexpensive tap for the mini-keg... (I'm considering 
modifying a philtap in the future, but that beer engine is going to 
wipe out my spending money for  a while...) Anyone got a mini-keg tap 
they're not using? ;-)
- -- 
:: Teresa ::
http://www.mivox.com/

A computer without Windows is like a dog
without bricks tied to its head.


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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:26:48 -0800 (PST)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: controller for light bulb.


John wanted more information about controllers for turning on/off
a light bulb.

The one I have was built by a brewing buddy who is an electrical
engineer.  It has a transformer, a switch and a house thermostat.
The transformer and switch are inside the wodden box with the light 
bulb.  The top of the box has holes to let heat out.  Near the bottom
on the side of the box is a biscuit fan.

I would suggest looking for a controller off the shelf.
I can easily find one's for refrigurators that turn on the power 
if it is too warm.  The one John needs would turn on power if
it is too cold. 

JOhn want to use it for lagering - I cannot set the temp lower than
50F - OK for fermentation but not lagering.

John said it is for lagering.  I cannot set the temp lower than
50

=====
Leo Vitt
Rochester MN



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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 00:18:59 +0000
From: "A. J. delange" <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: (no subject)

For John: Yes, I am now here (just back from a harrowing week in which I 
slept more nights on airplanes (3) than I did in hotel rooms (2)). I 
think Jeff has hit most of the important points WRT to your water  i.e. 
I don't really have anything to add but perhaps a slightly different 
perspective will shed a bit more light.

As I understant it the water is reasonalbly hard, reasonably alkaline 
well water with a low pH i.e. pretty normal well water except for high 
clear water iron levels. I think everyone agrees that the normal home 
water softener (which uses sodium chloride and exchanges sodium for 
iron, calcium and magnesium) is a disaster for brewing not so much 
because it raises sodium levels but because it removes calcium and 
magnesium which would otherwise offset the alkalinity (bicarbonates) in 
the mashtun. The softened water will, thus, have a higher residual 
alkalinity (calculate by dividing the sum of the calcium hardness and 
half the magnesium hardness by 3.5 and subtracting from the alkalinity) 
approximately equal to the raw water's alkalinity since the softener has 
nearly zeroed the calcium and magensium hardnesses.

If the water is really hard sodium levels will be proportionately high 
(approximately one milliequivalent of sodium for each milliequivalent of 
magnesium, calcium and iron in the raw water). When sodium was thought 
to be responsible for hypertension, the industry responded with 
softeners using potassium chloride rather than sodium choride (and 
middle aged men used "cosalt" i.e. potassium chloride) on their food. 
The chemistry is the same except that each milliequivalent of exchanged 
metal is replaced with a milliequivalent of potassium. The problem with 
high residual alkalinity is still there.

Sodium and potassium are generall "don't care" ions unless their 
concentrations are high enough that the water (and beer brewed from it) 
taste salty and a salty taste is undesireable in the style you are brewing.

In general, thus, water softeners (of the home type) are not very good 
for brewing.

If the main goal is to get rid of iron then an iron treatment 
installation is preferrable (from the brewing viewpoint that is; the 
spouse may have issues with the dishwasher, shower heads etc.). These 
work by oxidizing clearwataer (ferrous) iron to the Fe(III) state where, 
at high pH, it will form Fe(OH)3, the ugly brown gel, which can be 
filtered out. One can buy iron removing "filters" which oxidize either 
by aeration or by the use of permanganate. In the latter case a base is 
also used where the pH is low. In the aeration case, the aeration itself 
allows cabon dioxide to escape the water with a resuting increase in pH. 
The filtration medium is often "greensand", a mineral found only in 
Delaware which seems to catalyze the oxidation reaction. The ferric 
hydroxide is flushed when the filter medium is back washed. The local 
water treatment supplier should have a couple of options for you to 
consider in an iron removal unit or you can buy either type from Grainger.

For brewing voulumes you can get rid of iron using the same chemistry as 
the filters. Aerate the water vigorously. Eventually this should get the 
pH to around 8 and the water should turn grey, yellow or even brown 
(depending on the amount of iron). Filter it though a tight filter (a 
couple of inches of fine "play" sand (intended for kids' sanboxes) will 
do. When finished, wash the sand to flush away the iron so you can use 
it again.

Once the iron is gone, you can then use any of the other techniques for 
tailoring water (decarbonation by boiling or lime, dilution with 
distilled water etc.).

Another potential solution for the overall problem is a reverse osmosis 
unit. These are now available for around $100 from places like Home Depot.

As for lab tests: it's tough to get a lab to run what you want as a 
brewer because most people don't care that much about minerals other 
than the hardness ones. The major concerns for "normal" people is 
organics. That's why I used to offer an analysis service (and I hope to 
be able to do so again soon - the "lab" over the new garage is nearing 
completion). If you can get it you want calcium and magnesium hardnesses 
(separate if possible), sodium, potassium, iron, manganese, copper, 
alakalinity, pH and chloride.

A.J.




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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 19:03:14 +0800
From: Wendy & Reuben Filsell <filsell at myplace.net.au>
Subject: Disposable aeration.



> From: homebrew-request@hbd.org (Request Address Only - No Articles)
> Reply-To: homebrew at hbd.org (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
> Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:30:45 -0500
> To: homebrew at hbd.org
> Subject: Homebrew Digest #4101 (November 23, 2002)
> 
> Now the beauty is, when I'm done, I don't clean it at all.
> I just throw it away
Tom Karnowski
Knoxville TN


Sorry Tom nothing beautiful about that.
Reuben.






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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 10:41:50 -0700
From: "John Gubbins" <n0vse at idcomm.com>
Subject: The Trouble With Trub

Happy Thanksgiving.  I hope everybody has their Thanksgiving brews
ready!

Trub.

Most people don't dwell on this nasty stuff much but lately I've had
problems with it.  I have a big old concrete double laundry sink in
the basement that I use for laundry and brewing.  It is a wonderful
place to wash out bottles, kegs, carboys and whatever else there may
be that needs washing.  Each sink has a common drain that goes to a
pipe under the sink which then runs horizontally until it meets the
vertical sewer about a yard away.  Trub clogs this pipe somewhere.

When I rinse out a carboy, all the trub goes down the drain.  Usually
the next day the drains are plugged.  Nothing will touch this stuff.
Liquid Plummer, Drano, and similar products are useless.  I can rinse
the sinks till I'm blue in the face and it will still plug.

I do have a solution, but it is not easy.  I disconnect the pipe under
the sink and snake a tube as far as it will go into the pipe.  Then I
use a carboy stopper to seal the tube and pipe.  I then run hot high
pressure water through it.  This blows the pipe clear.

If anybody has any theories on why the trub continues to grow and plug
the pipe, I'd like to know.  I'm also curious if anybody has the same
problem.

John Gubbins
Littleton, Co


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