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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Ranco dual stage controller (Scott)
  Gaskets for Flip Top Bottle Caps and Carbonation in 2 Liter bottl ("Romanowsky, Paul")
  Teresa ("Beer Phantom")
  Re:  The Trouble with Trub ("Dennis Collins")
  RE: Splitting the brew day (Brian Lundeen)
  Potassium Sorbate ("Eyre")
  minikeg and party pig questions (Robin Griller)
  re: update on Beer Pouches (Robert Marshall)
  Meadllennium VI ("Howard & Patty Curran")
  couple quick ones on using a SS kettle for a mash tun ("Parker Dutro")
  First All Grain ("Byron's Yahoo Account")
  orval (Jim Liddil)
  PranQster Golden Ale (Craig Agnor)
  Hotmail woes (Pat Babcock)
  Botchard (Eric Harding)
  Re: The Trouble With Trub (David Towson)
  RE: Water analysis for Pickerington Ohio? (=?iso-8859-1?q?greg?=)


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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 21:41:15 -0800
From: Scott <sejose at pacbell.net>
Subject: Ranco dual stage controller

One can also get this item here:

http://diyreef.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=30

Scott Jose




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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:02:23 -0500
From: "Romanowsky, Paul" <paul.romanowsky at siemens.com>
Subject: Gaskets for Flip Top Bottle Caps and Carbonation in 2 Liter bottl

I recently acquired a case of some "Leikeim" brand beer, (German brewery, at
a benefit auction. Included in the case are their Pilsner, their Wheat, and
a beer they label as "German Black Beer" which I assume is a Stout.  In
addition to the case of 11.2 OZ. bottles I also have a 2 Liter Magnum bottle
of the Pilsner.  ALL bottles have the Flip Top Bottle Caps.  These bottles
will get filled again with some good homebrew once I enjoy the original
contents.  I have two questions for you all.

1.  Will I have to replace the rubber gasket on the caps every time I
re-bottle or are these gaskets reusable?  If they are reusable: for how many
times and how do you know when to replace.

2.  Until now I have just bottled in the normal 12 OZ. bottles.  This 2
Liter Magnum bottle is 67.2 OZ, (I believe).  Can I re-bottle with homebrew
and expect to get correct carbonation in it???

I found the below link for info on the Leikeim Brewery.  Have sampled one
bottle of the Pilsner so far and enjoyed it very much.  Has anyone else out
their sampled their beer and if so what is your rating of it?
http://www.leikeim.de/NeueSeiten/EnglIntro.html

Thanks in advance.

Paul R.



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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:08:05 -0600
From: "Beer Phantom" <beer_phantom at hotmail.com>
Subject: Teresa

Ever since Teresa began posting to HBD I've eagerly awaited her posts each 
day.  I've never before seen a woman actually get excited about homebrewing 
much less beer in any form.  Teresa, if you own a sporting goods store, will 
you marry me?

Anxious in anonimity,

The Beer Phantom







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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:21:48 -0500
From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com>
Subject: Re:  The Trouble with Trub

John Gubbins laments his sink pipe clogging with trub when he rinses out his
carboys.

Well, if its trub from the primary, there certainly is a lot of it.  Perhaps
it is just the shear volume of trub that the pipe just gags on.  When the
time comes to pitch out primary trub, I usually pour it out of the carboy
into the toilet and then flush a couple of times.  Hey, if the toilet can
handle the other "stuff" that goes down it, it can certainly handle a
carboy's worth of trub.  I would be hesitant to do this if you have a septic
tank, I have no idea how a big slug of yeast would affect it, but if you are
on a sewer system, flush away.  Once you have dumped the bulk of the trub,
your sink should easily handle the dregs that are left over.

Dennis Collins
Knoxville, TN
http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com

"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but not in practice".




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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:27:04 -0600
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: Splitting the brew day

Steve Tighe writes:

> Anyhow, when I decided to try this, I concluded that when the 
> runoff is 
> complete the wort most likely IS infected, since I haven't sanitized 
> anything to that point, and doesn't grain tend to be loaded with 
> lactobacillus or some related bug? 

I can't comment on whether or not this is correct, or whether what I am
proposing will even work (since I don't do the two-day brew thing). However,
in the interests of having homebrewers become more like commercial brewers
by adding lots of chemicals to their beers,...

Winemakers use an enzyme called lysozyme (I buy the brand Inovapure) to kill
or maim lactobacilli in their musts, to keep unwanted malolactics or other
infections from afflicting their wines. See
http://www.lysozyme.com/Products/inovapurewine03-27-02.PDF

Now, they don't talk about its use in beer, but they do note that its
activity increases with pH, so it should work even better (gram for gram) in
beer than in wine. I use 5 grams per 5 gallons in wine for inhibitory
action, likely less would be needed in a batch of wort, although how much
less is left as an exercise for the reader. Note that being an enzyme, it
would likely be best to let the wort cool to room temp or so before adding.

Inovapure can be bought at The Wine Lab in the US http://www.thewinelab.com
and Bosa Grape and Juice in Canada http://www.bosagrape.com/ and probably
other places I don't know about.

I have added lysozyme to my worts in the past (more to quelch the paranoia
triggered in me by all the anti-syphon sucking people, than to prevent any
souring in my mash runoff) and have not noticed any sensory defects I could
conclusively attribute to my enzyme addition instead of just my poor brewing
skills.

So, something for the two-day brewers to play with, if they so choose.

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg


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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:07:55 -0500
From: "Eyre" <meyre at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Potassium Sorbate

Hi all, new to brewing and also to this list.. very good material in here
for new people, thanks! So far, I've made 2 batches of beer, a pale and a
dark out of a kit that my wife got me for Christmas a year ago.. one of
which came out poor, and the other of which came of great.. and I guess
that's the learning curve in effect. Anyhow, for my question; right now I've
got a Cider fermenting happily away in the carboy (how long is that thing
gonna bubble, anyhow? Wow!), and if everythihng turns out well, I'd like to
do another in the near future for longer term storage. On my side of the US,
the apples this year were in short supply, and fresh cider is hard to find..
I did just find a new supplier, but I see Potassium Sorbate as listed as one
of it's 2 or 3 ingredients.. is that a preservative? I think is it, and that
would make it unsuitable for my needs, correct?

On another note, with the two previously mentioned batches I've made, my
first batch had almost no, if not absolutely no carbonation.. and my second
batch seems to be better, but it's far from 100% on all bottles.. I was hit
and miss about 50% of the time on the first 10 or so bottles, but now they
all seem to be pretty lightly carbonated. I thought I followed all the steps
well (I've read and memorized Papazians book, and also Palmers online
instructional as well..) and cleaned and was pretty thurough in all
respects, but I guess I missed somewhere along the way. Any suggestions on
what to pay particular attntion to in the future regards carbonation?

Lastly, short and sweet, what would a good bet on the leading cause of a
metallic aftertaste be caused by? My first batch is plagued by that, and is
now not worth drinking because of such..

Thank you!

meyre at sbcglobal.net



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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:56:48 -0500
From: Robin Griller <rgriller at chass.utoronto.ca>
Subject: minikeg and party pig questions

Hi all,

I've gotten my hands on a couple of minikegs and a friend has received a
couple of party pigs. I have a couple of questions:

 -if I'm happy to use the minikegs with just air, are the pull out and
rotate tap and the turn and let air in bung thing functional for reusing?
My bet is that the tap would be ok, but that the top bung and plastic
attachment wouldn't last...So, my question then is: why not just use the
rotating tap thing and a normal rubber bung in the top. When the flow
stops, just crack the bung to let air in? I know the beer won't last, but
if the intent is to use it as a real ale cask and drink the beer in an
evening or two is there any reason to buy those expensive tap things?

 -party pig: I remember reading somewhere about a party pig conversion that
allows you to use it with a gas tank and avoid the silly expensive bladder
things. Someone over on the brewing list forwarded me a photo of a
converted pig, but I haven't been able to find instructions for doing the
conversion. Anyone here done it? Anyone have a plan?

thanks!
Robin



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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:29:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Marshall <robertjm1 at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: update on Beer Pouches

Those things certainly look like Wyeast Labs yeast
containers!

Robert
- ---------------------------
Jeff wrote:

I brought home the Backpacker Magazine from work today
so I could provide more info.  I still have not heard
directly from the company and the email I
sent to them but here's the short article...





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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:12:15 -0500
From: "Howard & Patty Curran" <OCurrans at cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Meadllennium VI

Meadllennium VI is just around the corner. This will be the first
mead-only competition of 2003 and is one of the Premier Mead Only
Competitions in the United States. This event is sponsored by the
Central Florida Home Brewers (the same club that puts on the Sunshine
Challenge in May each year, which is the largest homebrew competition
East of the Mississippi.)
Entry procedures have been streamlined to make entering the competition
as easy as possible. You can now enter Meadllennium VI online. From the
online entry form you can print the required forms, and electronically
submit them to the tabulation team. Now you can pay your entry fees
online and get a $1 per-entry discount! You can even use your credit
card.
At a minimum, awards will be made for suitable 1st, 2nd and 3rd places
in each category. Additionally, an award will be given for Best of Show
and to the Club with the most points (the host club, the CFHB, is
excluded from this award.) Beautiful etched glasses will be awarded
again this year. 
This competition is registered and sanctioned through the BJCP.
Judging will be Saturday, January 25, 2003, and all entries are due no
later than Tuesday, January 21, 2003.
Entry fee is $6.00 and will consist of 3 bottles, 6 oz. or greater. You
can pay your entry fees online and get a $1 per-entry discount!

Mail your entries to:
Meadllennium VI
c/o Rockey Markham
2247 King John Court
Winter Park, FL 32792

The following styles will be judged and follow the BJCP Style
Guidelines, Category 25, Mead Subcategories A-H. See:
http://www.bjcp.org/styleguide25.html

A.	Traditional Mead 
B.	Varietal Honey Traditional Mead 
C.	Cyser (Apple Melomel) 
D.	Pyment (Grape Melomel) 
E.	Other Fruit Melomel 
F.	Metheglin (spices and/or herbs) 
G.	Braggot 
H.	Mixed Category Mead (combines ingredients from two or more of
the other mead sub-categories)

More information and the downloadable forms can be found at the Central
Florida Home Brewers site. Go to: http://www.cfhb.org/mead6.html or
E-Mail the Meadllennium competition team at: mead at cfhb.org.




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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:29:41 -0800
From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: couple quick ones on using a SS kettle for a mash tun

I have been looking into a weld-be-gone kettle spigot, and I plan on
purchasing one so if anyone can give me a good reason why I shouldn't
that would be appreciated.  But beyond that, if I am using my 68 or 34
quart ss kettles for mashing and boiling, how should I keep the thing at
a steady temp for the conversion period?  I am brainstorming my options
and I can think either I need to keep it on the burner and manually
maintain the temp> (don't like that idea, means greater chances for hot
and cold spots) or maybe constructing an insulated box with the
dimensions cut just right for the kettle to slide in.  I imagine if I
used extruded polystyrene or some other dense R valued material it could
be a very efficient temp maintainer.  Anyone using a similar set up that
can make suggestions?  What works, what doesn't?  

My other question is about drilling the SS wall of my kettle.  How many
have done this successfully?  Is it a huge investment just for tools, or
is there a poor mans method?  Any advice is helpful.  

Parker Dutro
P-town, OR








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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:33:47 -0800 (PST)
From: "Byron's Yahoo Account" <btowles at yahoo.com>
Subject: First All Grain

HBD'ers,
Well, I brewed my first all grain batch this past Sunday. It was a 10 gallon
recipe for an American Pale Ale. The all-grain portion went off without a
hitch, however I did hit a snag using fresh hops without a hop bag when I was
siphoning off the cooled wort into the fermentors. I ended up with a 1.054 OG,
with the IBU's calculated (by Promash, NAYY) to be 41. I DID manage to get a
little screwy with my yeast starter, but it all seems to be ok, as my carboys
were chiming loudly this morning as I got ready for work. Anyway, thanks to
all who replied (on and off list) to my questions for a good starter all-grain
style. I'll keep you informed as to the FG and taste specifics. Now to get my
"new to me" Corny's and CO2 set up for kegging, which will also be a first
time experience. Again, thanks to all who responded. 

Byron Towles
Member of the Crescent City Homebrewers, New Orleans, LA
http://hbd.org/crescent
[922.5, 204.2] 





=====
- ---------------------------------------------
The two most common elements in the
universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
- ---------------------------------------------



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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:28:01 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: orval

Orval has brett in the bottle and this is certainly going to have an
effect on the flavor.  I have my doubts that ahving a primary yeast is
going to really allow one to truely mimic the flavor.  But might as well
try.

WRT to yeast freshness this is hard to prove with out some variouus lab
equipment.  Define "fresh"

Jim Liddil
North Haven, CT



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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:58:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Agnor <cagnor at emerald.ucsc.edu>
Subject: PranQster Golden Ale


Howdy,

I've recently discoverd the PranQster Belgian Style Golden Ale from North
Coast Brewing Co. of Fort Bragg, CA at my local liquor store.  This
fabulous beer comes in a 4-pack of 12-oz. bottles for the bargain price of
$6 and is bottle conditioned.  I'm preparing to start brewing a few
belgian ales and have a few questions about the yeast used to ferment this
beer.

Before I get to the questions, here's the description of PranQster from
the NCBC web site.

"... PranQster follows in this tradition using a mixed culture of antique
yeast strains that results in a floral nose, a full fruity flavor and a
clean finish. It's a deceptive 6.9% alcohol and should be enjoyed with a
full head."

 PranQster
 STYLE             Belgian Style Golden Ale
 AVAILABILITY      Year Round
 COLOR             Soft Gold
 ORIGINAL GRAVITY  1.070  

And now for the questions.

Has anyone tried brewing with the yeast from the PranQster bottle?  

Is the yeast in the bottle one of the Belgian strains used in the primary
fermentation of the beer?  

Does anyone know if the belgian yeast used in PranQster is one of the
strains available from Wyeast or White Labs?  


Cheers,
Craig Agnor
Santa Cruz, CA





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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:14:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Hotmail woes

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

To those bemoaning the loss of the Digest to Hotmail accounts:
each and every hotmail address began bouncing last week. This
normally causes the automation to delete the subscriptions,
except that there were several hundred, so the automation
instead flagged it to me. After several more days of bounces to
hotmail, I let the automation delete the bad addresses to save
overhead of processing hunbreds of daily bounce messages.

If you are no longer receiving the Digest, and are on hotmail,
please resubscribe by sending the word "subscribe" to
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If, after resubscribing, you are still not receiving the HBD,
complain to the Hotmail admin (usually admin at hotmail.com) that
mail to you from the hbd.org domain is not reaching you, but is
being bounced at their end.

Thought I think what is happening on hotmail is simply
a failure within that domain, there could be another
cause as well. Read on...

Sometimes people who subscribe to the HBD later cannot fathom
how to unsubscribe (though it is in each and every Digest
header, in the help request reply, and is readily available in
the FAQ at http://hbd.org...). Instead of either finding out how
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domains use those "spam registries" to control the flow of mail
into and out of their domains -  once you're on those lists, it
can be dagnabbit difficult to get back off.

The point here is: if you are receiving the Digest, but don't
want to, remember two things: (a) you subscribed and (b) you can
unsubscribe. If your attempts to unsubscribe fail, WRITE A NOTE
TO THE JANITORS!!! Many times, your email address changes
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domain portion of your address, for instance), or you changed
the way your real or nickname is represented in your "from"
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OF THEIR BEER ENJOYMENT DRIBBLE ABOUT THINE HEAD AND
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tried to unsubscribe, but couldn't, and we'll happily hunt your
address down and remove it from the list.
 
That is all...

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
                                   - Arlo Guthrie





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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:45:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Harding <eharding at termonn.ca>
Subject: Botchard

Does anyone know the etymology of \"botchard?\"

I recently made the recipe from a CJJ Berry book and was curious.  It strikes 
me as a strange, somewhat bastardized word.  Any connection, perhaps, with the 
name \"Bouchard\"?

Thanks to all.


Eric Harding
Keats Island, BC


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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:04:07 -0500
From: David Towson <dtowson at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: The Trouble With Trub

In HBD 4102, John Gubbins described a problem with drain clogging.  I very 
much doubt that residue from fermentation is clogging a drain all by 
itself.  I think it much more likely that there is some object lodged in 
the drain pipe that is serving as a collection point for whatever else goes 
down the drain.  If this object is plastic, wood or metal, then ordinary 
drain cleaning chemicals are not going to remove it.  Since the piping 
appears from your description to be accessible, I suggest you disassemble 
it as needed to find the object and remove it.

Dave
Bel Air, MD



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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:58:17 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?greg?= <invalid76 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Water analysis for Pickerington Ohio?

wow, small world.  i live in Pataskala.  

i know this doesn't have anything to do with the
water, but shoot me an email if you'd like to trade
homebrew/recipes. 

greg, invalid76 at yahoo.co.uk



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