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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  re: mini keg ("chad. . . .")
  hm... and minikegs again (Teresa Knezek)
  Commercial brewers that look like homebrewers . . . (Ray Daniels)
  Re: PranQster Golden Ale ("Groenigen,  J.W. van")
  Kettle Conversion ("Michael O'Donnell")
  re:Gaskets for Flip Top Bottle Caps and Carbonation in 2 Liter bottl ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Electric Gott setups ("Kevin Sinn")
  Re: Gaskets for Flip Top Bottle Caps (Kevin White)
  Drying and Storing freshly picked hops ("Lanthier, Chris")
  Built in Minikeg taps ("Dan Listermann")
  Re: Botchard (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Apparent Rennerian (Jeff Renner)
  Trub in septic systems (Jim Bermingham)
  RE:  couple quick ones on using a SS kettle for a mash tun (Bill Tobler)
  Wine/Botchard ("Bill Frazier")
  re:  carbonation in 2-liter bottle ("Chuck Dougherty")
  re: PranQster Golden Ale (Rama Roberts)
  Pranqster (Alan Meeker)
  Re: Potassium Sorbate (Larry Bristol)
  blowoff? (BrewInfo)
  Black beer and turkey frying =?iso-8859-1?Q?=01?= ("Philip J Wilcox")
  Re: Potassium Sorbate, etc... (Max Hayes)


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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:22:39 -0800 (PST)
From: "chad. . . ." <eclectic_solitaire at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: mini keg

i love the mini kegs.
the rubber stoppers in the top of the mini can be
reused many times before wearing out and when they do
they are under a dollar to replace.
as far as tapping the bung and using the built in tap
as an air valve, i cant say but makes sense it would
work. i drink mine within a couple days and just pop
the little plastic piece thru the rubber bung to let
air in and retreive it when i clean the mini. holds
its carbonation fine for a day.











=====
 .
 .
CQ CQ CQ de KM5QF k kn



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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:55:23 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: hm... and minikegs again

On or thereabout 11/26/02, Beer Phantom thusly:
>I've never before seen a woman actually get excited about homebrewing
>much less beer in any form.
I've corresponded with a couple of female brewers who lurk on HBD... 
perhaps they're just hiding in fear of unsolicited marriage 
proposals?  hehehe.

>Teresa, if you own a sporting goods store, will you marry me?
I'm afraid my boyfriend would be awfully disappointed in me if I 
opened a sporting goods store.... In my other life, I'm a computer 
geek.

Interesting thing about women and beer though... except for the few 
women lurking here at HBD, I've never met a female "beer fan" either. 
Perhaps all those macrobrew commercials with the bikini girls are to 
blame?

OK... I've got a minikeg with the pull-out tap in the mail as we 
speak. Just in case that doesn't work with the beer engine (which is 
also in the mail...), are there any used "regular" minikegs floating 
around the list that need a good home? ;-)
- -- 
:: Teresa ::
http://www.mivox.com/

A computer without Windows is like a dog
without bricks tied to its head.


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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 02:34:54 -0600
From: Ray Daniels <raydan at ameritech.net>
Subject: Commercial brewers that look like homebrewers . . . 

OK gang, here's one for you.  I'm looking  for commercial breweries that 
act like homebrewers.  You know: homemade or really custom equipment, wacky 
recipes, small brew length (batch size), maybe still giving away or 
drinking as much as they are selling.  Could be brewpub or micro.

The one example that I have in my own mind is Dragonmead in Michigan: 3 bbl 
brew length, lots of homemade equipment, avowed goal of having one beer in 
every style on tap simultaneously.  Kalamazoo Brewing (Bell's) has much the 
same attitude, although substantially bigger now.  In some cases, we might 
consider the early days of a brewery.

We want to do a piece on some of the "homebrew-like" brewers, so shoot me 
any thoughts you have.

Thanks,


Ray Daniels
Editor, Zymurgy & The New Brewer
Director, Brewers Publications
ray at aob.org
773-665-1300

Call Customer Service at 888-822-6273 to subscribe or order individual 
magazines.

For more information, see www.beertown.org



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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:02:52 +0100
From: "Groenigen, J.W. van" <J.W.vanGroenigen at Alterra.wag-ur.nl>
Subject: Re: PranQster Golden Ale

Craig writes:

"I've recently discoverd the PranQster Belgian Style Golden Ale from North
Coast Brewing Co. [...] This fabulous beer..." 

And continues to ask how to brew this beer.

Craig, being Dutch, therefore having drunk a LOT of Belgian beer, and having
lived in CA for a couple of years, I can only agree with you. Together with
the Canadian unibroue beers, I found this beer by far the best North
American Belgian-style brew I tasted. In fact, I really preferred this one
to the rather old Belgian Trappists that we could get over there.
Unfortunately, I don't have information on how this one is brewed, I hope
someone else does and posts it. I *did* brew a Belgian Blonde last month
that comes reasonably close, though. It involved (next to pilsner malt and
light crystal) some spelt malt (I'm sure wheat gives a quite similar taste,
but I had the stuff lying around), some curacao peel and candy sugar. I used
the wyeast 1214. Again, I don't claim that this is how Pranqster is brewed,
but if you are shooting for the style rather than a clone, this will give
you a good beer. The full recipe is posted at the Good Homebrewing Internet
Club site ( http://forums.delphiforums.com/homebrew007 , "Calvijn Blonde"),
but I wouldn't mind posting it here if people are interested.

Take care,

Jan Willem.


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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:24:11 -0800
From: "Michael O'Donnell" <mooseo at stanford.edu>
Subject: Kettle Conversion

Hi Parker,

For drilling, do a quick search on the archives... this was a hot topic 
about 2 weeks ago... Several tools, all affordable and all work (I used a 
hole saw).

I'm curious about the same thing for holding temp.  I'm not sure you'd want 
to "slide" a full mash tun into a foam box... maybe sliding the insulation 
the other way... I have seen a jacket that someone had on their kettle; it 
was made of an all-metal foam so he could leave it on while heating the 
kettle.  The guy in question was a HVAC contractor, so he probably had all 
sorts of good stuff lying around the shop.  I don't know what the stuff 
was, but it seems pretty good.

cheers,
mike
Monterey, CA

At 12:47 AM 11/26/2002 -0500, you wrote:

>Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:29:41 -0800
>From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com>
>Subject: couple quick ones on using a SS kettle for a mash tun
>
>I have been looking into a weld-be-gone kettle spigot, and I plan on
>purchasing one so if anyone can give me a good reason why I shouldn't
>that would be appreciated.  But beyond that, if I am using my 68 or 34
>quart ss kettles for mashing and boiling, how should I keep the thing at
>a steady temp for the conversion period?  I am brainstorming my options
>and I can think either I need to keep it on the burner and manually
>maintain the temp> (don't like that idea, means greater chances for hot
>and cold spots) or maybe constructing an insulated box with the
>dimensions cut just right for the kettle to slide in.  I imagine if I
>used extruded polystyrene or some other dense R valued material it could
>be a very efficient temp maintainer.  Anyone using a similar set up that
>can make suggestions?  What works, what doesn't?
>
>My other question is about drilling the SS wall of my kettle.  How many
>have done this successfully?  Is it a huge investment just for tools, or
>is there a poor mans method?  Any advice is helpful.
>
>Parker Dutro
>P-town, OR



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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:50:57 -0500
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re:Gaskets for Flip Top Bottle Caps and Carbonation in 2 Liter bottl

Paul asks about recently acquired German beer that comes in flip top bottles
and also about reusing the bottles & gaskets. First, I suspect that the
"German Black Beer" isn't a stout; but probably  Schwarzbier, a lager. The
name means black beer in German.

As to the bottles & gaskets, they work fine. Go ahead and use them. The
gaskets are reusable quite a number of times. The actual number will vary
depending on how long you store the bottles, the storage condition of gaskets
between uses, etc. The problem is that they dry out & crack over time. This
obviously provides refuge for beer spoilage nasties & allows carbonation to
leak out if bad enough. Just examine the gaskets before using & be sure they
are still flexible & in good condition. They're cheap to replace when
necessary, and available from many hb supply shops.

Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL




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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:27:49 -0500
From: "Kevin Sinn" <skinner222 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Electric Gott setups

Hello Beer People!

My current system is based upon a (2) 5 gal. Gotts as HLT's, a 10 gal. Gott 
mash tun and a 60qt. aluminum kettle.  All heating is done with a single 
propane burner.

I would like to convert to an all electric system to facilitate indoor 
brewing and to eliminate the hauling of brewing gear up and down the stairs 
from basement to garage.  Has anyone successfully converted a Gott cooler to 
an electric HLT?  I don't want to purchase another vessel if possible. My 
concerns are sealing around the element ports, thickness of the plastic 
shell of the cooler, and the possibility of damaging the liner and 
insulation of the cooler.

Thanks for your help!

Cheers!
Kevin in Essex








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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:28:33 -0500
From: Kevin White <kwhite at bcpl.net>
Subject: Re: Gaskets for Flip Top Bottle Caps

Paul Romanowsky asks:

> Will I have to replace the rubber gasket on the caps
> every time I re-bottle or are these gaskets reusable?
> If they are reusable: for how many times and how do
> you know when to replace.

Yes, the gaskets are re-usable. I remove them from the caps and
boil them (the gaskets) to sanitize before bottling. (I also
separately boil the caps.) Any gaskets that don't return to a
more or less pristing shape after boiling (i.e., no significant
indentations) get tossed, and any that provide little resistance
when pressing down the tightening cam also get tossed.

The best price I've seen for replacement caps is Leener's Brew
Works at $4.95 per hundred. NAJASC, but I have not purchased
these replacement caps.
http://www.leeners.com/bottlebeer.html#cappers

Kevin White
Columbia, MD


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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:38:34 -0500
From: "Lanthier, Chris" <CLanthie at arqule.com>
Subject: Drying and Storing freshly picked hops

A month or two ago I was invited out to a co-workers house to take part in
his yearly Cascade harvest.  After 3 hours of picking and drinking, I
brought home a couple pounds of fresh hops.  I stuffed them into old
sandwich bags, squeezed as much air out as I could, tied them up and tossed
them in the freezer.  Now that I'm ready to use some, I've become aware that
I should have dried them first before storing them.  My question is, now
that they're already frozen, will there be any loss of quality?  And how can
I dry them after I've thawed them out?  I read of hop dryers in "Brew
Wares", but is a simple oven heated to 120 degrees F effective enough?

Thanks in advance for any help,
Chris Lanthier
Andover, MA



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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:51:47 -0500
From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com>
Subject: Built in Minikeg taps


From: Robin Griller <rgriller at chass.utoronto.ca>

> -if I'm happy to use the minikegs with just air, are the pull out and
>rotate tap and the turn and let air in bung thing functional for reusing?
>My bet is that the tap would be ok, but that the top bung and plastic
>attachment wouldn't last...So, my question then is: why not just use the
>rotating tap thing and a normal rubber bung in the top. When the flow
>stops, just crack the bung to let air in? I know the beer won't last, but
>if the intent is to use it as a real ale cask and drink the beer in an
>evening or two is there any reason to buy those expensive tap things?

You could just use a conventional minikeg bung and insert the inner core
backwards into the rubber outer core.  When it needs venting, just remove
the core and reinsert.  Essentially you are using the core as a stopper.
For that matter, why not just use something like a #3 solid stopper to do
the same thing.

We make "Phil's Minikeg Gasser" which can supply CO2 to these kegs to
maintain freshness and carbonation.  The Philtap is far better, but these
work and cost less.

Dan Listermann

Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com

Free shipping for orders greater than $35
and East of the Mighty Miss.






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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:30:51 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Botchard

Eric Harding <eharding at termonn.ca> of Keats Island, BC asks:

>Does anyone know the etymology of \"botchard?\"

As a point of datum, the Oxford English Dictionary has nothing for 
botchard.  That pretty much says it for me as far as English goes.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:45:21 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Apparent Rennerian

"Don Scholl" <dws at engineeringdimensions.com> of Muskegon, Michigan, asks:

>How do I go about figuring this out? I live in Muskegon, MI.

If you go to HBD.org and click on the FAQ section, you should find a 
calculator, or you can go to it directly at 
http://hbd.org/rennerian_table.shtml .  It also has a link allowing 
you to find your own lat/long coordinates in case you don't have a 
GPS receiver, which is not necessary for brewing good beer.  Knowing 
your Rennerian coordinates isn't either, for that matter.  But it is 
a bit of silly fun that comes from my occasional request that people 
include their real name and location when posting (Rennerian 
coordinates are optional).

Those interested in the definitive history of this bit of silliness 
can read my post of ten months ago at 
http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/3830.html#3830-15

So, plugging in Muskegon's approximate lat/long coords of 43*10' 
north, 83*14' west, we get [136.1, 297] Apparent Rennerian.  This 
means you are about 136 miles from the center of the brewing universe 
at a bearing of 297 degrees, or more or less northwest.  You can 
refine this by getting your precise lat/long coordinates.

On a related subject, something didn't look right about Pete Fahle's 
Rennerian coordinates in his post Monday:

>St. Charles , Mo
>682.3    34.4 Rennerian

The distance looks too far, and the bearing of 34.4 would put St. 
Charles somewhere up in northern Ontario near James Bay!

By plugging in St. Charles' approximate lat/long coords of 38*28'N, 
90*17W (you can get these with a simple Google search), we get 
[430.2, 234.2] Apparent Rennerian.

Have fun.

Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
Calculate your Rennerian Coordinates at http://hbd.org/rennerian_table.shtml


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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:08:36 -0800
From: Jim Bermingham <jbham6843 at netscape.net>
Subject: Trub in septic systems

On adding yeast to your septic system, Dennis Collins said that he would 
be hesitant to do this if 
you had a septic tank. Septic systems love yeast.  For your friends that 
do not brew, encourage them to add yeast to their septic system at least 
once a month.  This will cut down on problems they may have in the future.

Jim Bermingham
Millsap, TX









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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:15:33 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE:  couple quick ones on using a SS kettle for a mash tun

Parker, 
   I have two SS Mash Tuns, both Polarware pots.  One is a ten gallon and
the other is a 15 gallon.  Even though my brewery is indoors and it's all an
all electric HERMS, I have found I still need to insulate the mash tun.  I
went to Lowes and bought a hot water blanket and wrap the mash tun just
before the brew.  I tie it on with just a piece of rope or wire.  It's very
efficient, and I can just roll it up and put it away between brew days.
It's also pretty much waterproof/resistant.  My temps stabled out much
better once I put the insulation on.

The best tool I have found for drilling holes in SS is a unibit.  You can
get a 7/8" one at most home stores or hardware shops for about $20. That
will drill most size holes up to 7/8 inch.  You just need to make a pilot
hole.  Another tool that works good is a conduit punch.  You drill a hole
big enough for the pull bolt to go through, and there is a cutter on one
side and a die on the other.  You just tighten the nut and the cutter cuts
through the SS easily, and you have a very nice hole.  You have to buy a set
usually, and they are a little more expensive.  Here is a link the unibit.

http://www.unibitstepdrill.com/index.asp

Here is a link to My Brewery on NikonNet.com.  You will have to paste the
three lines together to get there. Sorry, no pictures of the insulated mash
tun.  I'll have to do that someday.

http://home1.nikonnet.com/servlet/com.arcsoft.LoginNew?com=arcsoftBanner&awp
=index3.html&DIRECT=&USERNAME=wctobler&PASSWORD=nikoneditor_1409905725&WHO=m
emberguest


Cheers,

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:56:08 -0600
From: "Bill Frazier" <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Wine/Botchard

Eric Harding asks about "Botchard" that appeared in a CJJ Berry book.

Eric-I can't help with Botchard but it's a coincidence that your question
about
CJJ Berry appeared one day after the following announcement was posted
on the newsgroup "rec.crafts.winemaking";

Dear Winemaking Friends,
>
> It is with great sadness I have to report the death of a man , whose
> contribution to the hobby of "Home Winemaking" will live on, C.J.J
> Berry (Cyril),was in his 88th year, he wrote and contributed his
> expertise to the hobby, over many years. He will almost certainly be
> remembered for his book "First Steps in Winemaking", a fitting epitaph
> to remember him by, and a legacy for us to carry on. Our thoughts go
> out to his widow and family.   Goodbye old friend , and thank you.
>
> Tom (Thompson) Keys, President
> Midlands Winemaking Federation

Back to me~lately there have been a couple of posts on HVD.  Because
there is so little traffic on HVD I urge anyone interested in winemaking to
check out "rec.crafts.winemaking".  I go there for the same type of civil
and
expert discussion that you find on HBD.  Beginners to pros that own and
operate vineyards and wineries ask and answer questions there.

Best regards,

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas



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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:13:11 -0600
From: "Chuck Dougherty" <jdougherty at wlj.com>
Subject: re:  carbonation in 2-liter bottle

Paul Romanowsky asks about reusing a Leikeim 2-liter bottle.  I don't bottle
much anymore, but I have tried reusing a 2-liter flip-top bottle from a
different German brewery.  Mine was not the standard-shaped bottle like
Leikeim uses, but was a wider-mouthed bottle with an integrated handle.  It
seems like somebody had bought that beer for me as a present.  Anyway, it
worked fine for the first brew, then I put a very carbonated wheat beer in
it.  I placed it on the top shelf in my "beer closet," the bottom half of
which was unfortunately still serving as SWMBO's linen closet.  I came home
one evening to find foam creeping out from under the closet door.  You can
imagine what the inside of the closet looked like.  I spent the next couple
of hours hunting down all of the little glass shards; what a mess.  I bet
the Leikeim bottle will be fine, but I'd still recommend storing the bottle
somewhere that if it should blow it will do no harm.

You can certainly reuse the other bottles, and you don't need to replace
the gaskets every time.  And incidentally the "German black beer" is quite
different from a stout, but I bet you'll enjoy it.

Chuck Dougherty
Little Rock, Arkansas


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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:22:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Rama Roberts <rama at eng.sun.com>
Subject: re: PranQster Golden Ale

Craig asks:

> Is the yeast in the bottle one of the Belgian strains used in the
> primary fermentation of the beer?

Not according to North Coast Brewing Co. They say they use another yeast
for the bottle conditioning when I asked about a year ago.





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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:28:23 -0500
From: Alan Meeker <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: Pranqster

Craig Agnor asked about brewing with the Pranqster Golden Ale yeast:

"Is the yeast in the bottle one of the Belgian strains used in the primary
fermentation of the beer?"

"Does anyone know if the belgian yeast used in PranQster is one of the
strains available from Wyeast or White Labs?"

Sorry Craig, don't really know if the yeast found in the bottle is the one
(assuming they only use one) they use for the primary fermentation. I also
don't know what the origin of this yeast is. However, I have cultured yeast
from Pranqster and brewed with it. With /them/ I should say as the culture
that grew up produced a mixture of two colony sizes, one fairly normal sized
and the other much smaller. I sub-cultured each one and tried making a
strong Belgian with each separately, as well as a 50-50 mixture of the two.
As I recall, there were noticeable flavor differences between the two
strains, mostly phenolics I think, but I'll have to dig out my notes to see
exactly how they behaved...

 -Alan Meeker





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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:30:24 -0600
From: Larry Bristol <larry at doubleluck.com>
Subject: Re: Potassium Sorbate

On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:07:55 -0500, "Eyre" <meyre at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> question; right now I've got a Cider fermenting happily away in the
> carboy (how long is that thing gonna bubble, anyhow? Wow!), and if
> everythihng turns out well, I'd like to do another in the near future
> for longer term storage. On my side of the US, the apples this year
> were in short supply, and fresh cider is hard to find.. I did just find
> a new supplier, but I see Potassium Sorbate as listed as one of it's 2
> or 3 ingredients.. is that a preservative? I think is it, and that
> would make it unsuitable for my needs, correct?

Potassium sorbate is a "fermentation inhibitor".  That is, it probably 
will not stop an active fermentation, but it will make it difficult for 
active fermentation to start (or restart).  In wine making, it is 
sometimes called a "stabilizer", used to prevent fermentation from 
restarting in the bottles, especially when some sugar is added just 
before bottling to make the wine less "dry".

I *USE* potassium sorbate when I make apple cider.  I prefer the cider to 
have a little residual sweetness, but cider will normally ferment 
completely (bone dry).  So I ferment about 4.5 gallons of apple juice, 
and when it is kegged, I add another 0.5 gallons of juice (for 
sweetness), potassium sorbate (to prevent fermentation from restarting), 
and force carbonate.  [An alternative is to ferment the full 5 gallons, 
then add a small can of frozen concentrate when kegging.]  Of course, you 
cannot use sorbate if you plan to bottle condition.

> On another note, with the two previously mentioned batches I've made,
> my first batch had almost no, if not absolutely no carbonation.. and my
> second batch seems to be better, but it's far from 100% on all
> bottles.. I was hit and miss about 50% of the time on the first 10 or
> so bottles, but now they all seem to be pretty lightly carbonated. I
> thought I followed all the steps well (I've read and memorized
> Papazians book, and also Palmers online instructional as well..) and
> cleaned and was pretty thurough in all respects, but I guess I missed
> somewhere along the way. Any suggestions on what to pay particular
> attntion to in the future regards carbonation?

I understand that some sources tell people to add a certain amount of 
priming sugar to each bottle.  If this is what you did, then the amount 
of carbonation will vary greatly from bottle to bottle because it is very 
difficult to measure the sugar accurately and consistently.  The better 
approach is to dissolve all of the priming sugar you need in a small 
amount of water (about a cup or so) and stir this into the entire batch 
of beer before bottling.  This way, you get a consistent amount of sugar 
in each bottle.  [I recommend that you siphon the beer off the trub 
before adding the priming sugar, so that you will not stir this back up.]

> Lastly, short and sweet, what would a good bet on the leading cause of
> a metallic aftertaste be caused by? My first batch is plagued by that,
> and is now not worth drinking because of such..

Personally, I think that all young (green) beer has a metallic taste.  
Give it some time for the flavors to blend and mellow.  If the metallic 
taste gets worse with age, however, then you need to take a good look at 
your ingredients and maybe your equipment.  Does your drinking water 
taste metallic?

- ---------------------------------------------------

On a non-related subject, I wish people would stop making general 
statements that softened water should not be used for brewing.  You can 
brew PERFECTLY GOOD BEER using water that has been processed by an ion 
exchange water softener; I know this because I did so for years.  Just 
like any water source, you need to know its chemistry and make the 
appropriate adjustments.

The more important question one should ask in this regard is which water 
is better for brewing purposes --- the water going in to your softener or 
the water coming out.  If all you are doing is exchanging sodium or 
potassium for calcium, then the original water is probably better for 
brewing.  If you are replacing other ions, however, then it may well be 
easier to deal with the higher residual alkalinity of the softened water.  
That was my situation for a long time, and the softened water was much 
better for brewing than the original.  When I moved about 2 years ago, 
this situation changed, and now I brew with the water straight out of my 
well; the water in the house still gets softened.  You need to know what 
you have and treat it accordingly.

Go with the wisdom that says, "if the water is good for drinking, then it 
is good for brewing."



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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:30:27 -0600 (CST)
From: brewinfo at xnet.com (BrewInfo)
Subject: blowoff?

Hello all--
I've been rather busy... just welcomed another 7#15oz brewer's
assistant into the world.  I don't have time to keep up with
reading HBD, but much to the chagrin of my ISP, I'm saving
them all and plan to catch up someday (I know they are archived).

Well, I set up some new email filtering software and accidentally
started blocking HBD's.  While trying to figure out what kind of
spamlike lingo you folks are using these days, I accidentally
read monday's HBD.

Brendan asks whether using the blowoff method of fermentation
affects the flavour (actually, I think hangovers were the
actual issue) of the beer.  Well, I did a test several years
ago and the results were published in Brewing Techniques,
although the test was funded by Zymurgy.  To make a short story
long, the bottom line is that a half dozen National or better
BJCP judges could not detect any significant difference in the
flavour of the various beers.  They were not told what the
difference was and only noted a slight difference in bitterness.

Actually the difference was measured by a lab and found to
be between 10 and 16% less IBUs when you blow off (or skim
or drop, by the way).  Other factors like protein content and
higher alcohols were also measured in the lab and they were
all nearly exactly the same between the blowoff and non-blowoff
batches.  Again: the only difference greater than 1% was in
the IBUs.

Back to sleepless father mode...

Al.

Al Korzonas
www.brewinfo.com


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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:57:00 -0500
From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: Black beer and turkey frying =?iso-8859-1?Q?=01?=

Hi All,

Paul Romanowsky was lucky enough to find himself a case of "Leikeim" brand
beer.
Lucky him, This is a northern Bravarian brewery, probulby close to the
Black Forest?
and not one that I think I have had. But black beer from bavaria is not
stout.
Its not bock either. It is Swartz bier or Black Beer. Actually a black
lager,
something akin to a black pilsner or a black helles. These beers are not
heavy like porter, stout or even bock. They are relativley light in body
with a dark flavor if not a bit roasty without being malty like a dunkel.
They are suprising smooth and somewhat rare. Delicious!

New topic.

By unanimous command from my family we are deep frying a turkey for
Thanksgiving II on Saturday. When we did the first MCAB in Houston, one of
the clubs did several turkey's this way for the awards banquet.They were
incredible!!! Foam Rangers,? KGB?  I don't remember which. Anyone else who
wants to chime in feel free to speak up, I was hoping to get some advice on
what to do. Other than don't use your 2-tier 1/2 bbl system...I got one of
the other guys to buy a turkey freyer.

What spices and liquids do you inject them with? Do you do a rub of any
kind on the outside?
No stuffing I assume.
How long does it take to heat up the oil? what temp do you want the oil?
How long on the bird? I have heard a half-hour, sound about right?  165F to
the middle of the breast meat?

Anything else?

Phil Wilcox
Poison Frog Home Brewer
Warden - Prison City Brewers
(32,270) Rennerian (which by the was serving a fine best bitter on handpull
last weekend) Too bad the football was more bitter than the beer....







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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:37:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Max Hayes <toxicbrewer at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Potassium Sorbate, etc...

    In response to Eyre's questions in #4103, I think
I can provide a bit of insight...
    Potassium Sorbate (aka Sorbic Acid) is indeed a
preservative, which inhibits yeast growth, and makes
your cider next to impossible to ferment. I'd suggest,
if you don't have any local suppliers of fresh,
all-natural cider, buying preservative-free apple
juice at your grocery store. I, personally, have yet
to press my own -or- buy fresh, natural cider. I just
walk into my local Walmart and buy a few different
brands of apple juice.. Seneca, Tree-Top, and White
House come to mind as juices that produce a nice end
result. I'd recommend mixing them, and trying to add
at least a bit of "Granny Smith" apple juice as well,
for a nice tartness in the finished product...    
    As for your carbonation problems, I might have a
solution here as well. One, make sure you're adding
the correct amount of priming sugar to your batch.
Around 1oz per gallon works for most beers, which
translates to around 3/4 cup for the usual five
gallons. Also, it sounds like in your second batch,
you got pretty uneven carbonation. If for some reason
I think that my priming sugar solution hasn't mixed
properly, I always give the beer a few light stirs to
mix it thoroughly. Mind you, this is definately not
always necessary, and can potentially oxidize your
beer, but sometimes my paranoia gets the best of me. I
also tend to clear the bejeezus out of my beers before
bottling, so I always add a pinch of dried yeast to
each bottle. Practicing this, I've only had one
over-carbonation (with one of my first ciders) and no
under-carbonation.
    Lastly, to address your first attempt's metallic
taste, there are a few possibilities. Oxidation, for
one, sometimes adds a metallic aftertaste to beers.
Make sure you don't splash your beer around after it's
fermented. Always put your racking hose under the
liquid when syphoning, and try to forego excessive
splashing when carrying your fermenter from place to
place. 
    Another possibility is that you have excessive
amounts of iron in your tap water. This seems less
likely, because I'm assuming that your second batch
didn't have any metallic notes, but none-the-less,
plenty of homebrewers buy bottled spring water and use
that for their beer. It's relatively inexpensive in
bulk, and it eliminates having to boil out chlorine
from your tap water. 
    Also, metallic flavors can be leeched into your
brew from using iron utensils (brewing pot, spoon,
etc). I use enameled stainless myself, but many people
use all stainless brewpots (bit above my budget at the
moment :P). Also, if you use enamelware, always check
for chips in the coating, as these can affect your
finished beer's flavor as well (though with aluminum,
I don't believe the hype :P). 
    I hope I've provided a few answers for you, and
keep brewing!,
              Max Hayes




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