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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Steve is....sez Gump ("Rob Moline")
  Re: Step Mash with a False Bottom (Wes Smith)
  ramping and under pitching (Road Frog)
  re: Yeast & Maylasia (Bill Wible)
  Rubbermaid 10 gallon cooler ("Menzl's")
  Re: Speed of Temperature Increases and Wort Flow in HERMS (Kent Fletcher)
  Double mash? ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")


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Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 01:22:11 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: Steve is....sez Gump


Yes, he is.....


> From: "Michael Maag" <MichaelMaag at doli.state.va.us>
Subject: BrewingTechniques Back Issues
<SNIP>
<Steve is one heck of a guy.


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Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 18:25:05 +1100
From: Wes Smith <wsmith at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Step Mash with a False Bottom

Ant Hayes has responded to Steve Alexander re step mashing with a false 
bottom - sorry I did not see Steve's original post but can add some 
experience from my combi mash/lauter tun setup. Built around a commercial 
catering 90 ltr electric boiler, my unit originally had a 3 phase 6kw 
heating system built into the cavity between the insulated outer skin and 
the inner vessel. Where this boiler is unusual is the arrangement of the 
elements around the periphery of the vessel where they radiate heat from 
the inconel elements to heat the lower half of the vessel. The total unit 
is beautifully made in 316 s/s and the elements can be withdrawn on there 
own mounting plate. The insulation was pathetic so I replaced the 
fibreglass matt with rockwool 50mm in thickness, changed the electrics back 
to single phase (240 volt here in Australia) and fitted a Watlow Series 96 
PID controller firing a 30 amp solid state relay.

The PID controller was absolutely essential as this type of heating system 
has an exponential ramp that needs careful control. The false bottom is a 
perforated 316 s/s plate 0.75mm thick with 1mm holes on 2mm centres - 
around 23% open area. The plate is supported on 12 or so 316 s/s cap screws 
about 15mm off the bottom of the vessel and allows for a very accurate 
levelling of the plate. There is a central spigot in the bottom of the 
vessel that doubles as a central support for the lauter plate, the wort 
takeoff point and also as the bottom bearing for the agitator shaft. The 
original 1.5" tapered outlet valve has been left in place and this is now 
used as Ant has described, to flush out some of the finer grist particles 
and a lot of proteinaceous material before starting the runoff. Runoff wort 
is directed from the central spigot to a second small ball valve that 
enables the wort flow rate to be fully controlled - and initial 
recirculation, usually about 2 or 3 ltrs, is poured back into the mash. The 
agitator has its own speed controlled motor and reduction box enabling a 10 
to 30 rpm rate.

So the heat comes from the SIDES of the vessel and does not cause any 
scorching or other problems with the wort. Capacity is about 15kg or so of 
grist but I mostly use a 10kg grist load for a 60ltr brewlength (yielding 
55ltrs = 3 x 18ltrs [5 USgal] kegs). The unit was designed to replicate 
both single infusion mashes as well as full program step mashes and 
decoctions. Its been a real success, but is not something you could really 
call a homebrewing system. If we weren't in the malt business needing to do 
test brews I would be using something a lot simpler - and cheaper. I have a 
few jpegs of the unit if you are interested.

Wes.




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Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 06:41:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Road Frog <road_frog_run at yahoo.com>
Subject: ramping and under pitching

I have not had the impetus to light a fire under the
the mash tun yet.  But is it practical with an
easy-masher type tun?  I would think not ... but? 
Have to get the pump up and going, then the herms.

I played around some years ago with under pitching
wits.  It seemed to give good results with some yeast.
 But given my brewing style, was hard to control. 
I.E.. oxygenation, fermenting temperature, actual
pitching rate.

Happy New Year to all, and to the janitors THANKS!
Glyn in Estill Springs TN



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Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 11:45:25 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: re: Yeast & Maylasia


>the biggest Wyeast smack pak - the 200ml pack intended for BOPs
>to pitch into15gal produces only 105B to 120B cells.   Better
>than the tubes by far, but I don't see BOP packs in the shops

Any homebrew shop that stocks Wyeast can get the BOP packs.
They would have to sell for about $15.  That's also part of
why it costs over $100 to brew a couple cases of beer at a
BOP, and why there isn't one in PA, NJ, or DE that I'm aware
of.

If your shop stocks Wyeast, and you're really serious about
it, they might be willing to get them for you on a special
order basis.  Ask.

Frankly, I see enough resistance to the pitchable tubes
at $6.50, and it doesn't matter whether its Wyeast or White
Labs.  I sell more White Labs, though.  I even found the regular
Wyeast smack packs a hard sell at $4.49.  So much so that I
stopped carrying them.

People here seem to view yeast as just another added expense
to their batch, even though I constantly explain that it's the
single biggest thing you can do to improve the quality of
your beer.  Dry yeast is a joke.
  
I think most brewers will balk at $15 for yeast though, and
that's why none of the HB shops carry them.  No point in
carrying $15 tubes of yeast to sit in the refrigerator and
expire.  

And despite your bleak observations, the Wyeast and White Labs
vials work just fine.

Bill



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Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 15:01:29 -0500
From: "Menzl's" <menzl at concentric.net>
Subject: Rubbermaid 10 gallon cooler

I am going to move into the world of "No-Sparge" mashing and purchased the
required
10 gallon cooler.  The problem I discovered is that the Igloo cooler has a
13.25
inch diameter where the Phil's Phalse bottom I have is 12 inches.  The Igloo
has since
been returned and I do further study to find a suitable mash tun.

I have done some searching and I really like the price for the Rubbermaid 10
gallon
cooler that Bob Hewitt recommended in HBD #4122 at
http://www.shoplet.com/office/db/gCRUB5379.html.  My main question is if
anyone knows
if the 12 inch Phil's Phalse Bottom fits this cooler?  I would like to avoid
buying
something over the internet if it is not going to fit the False bottom that
I have.

Thanks in advance!
William Menzl
Midland, Michigan [99.8, 344.8] Apparent Rennerian







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Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:08:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Speed of Temperature Increases and Wort Flow in HERMS

Kevin Eggemeyer wanted to consider reverse circulation
with his HERMS rig, in an effort to shorten ramp
times:

>What I'm interested in knowing more about is how
>quickly the temperature can/should be raised using a
>HERMS type system.  The limiting factor that I've
>come across is the speed at which the wort can be
>recirculated.  To increase the flow rate, I thought
>about having the pump pull from the top of the grain
>bed and return to the bottom.  (snip) The point being
>to increase the flow from the roughly one-half gallon
>of wort transferred through the heat exchanger now to
>several times that volume.  (snip)
>Any thoughts on recirculating in reverse?

Kevin, trying to recirculate in reverse is fraught
with problems.  Where would the suction inlet of your
system be?  It would (obviously) have to be beneath
the surface of the mash, and be submerged enough that
it would not suck air on pump start-up, when the level
in the tun drops.  You would have to have a screen to
keep the grist out - and posibly result in compacting
the top of the mash.

When you mentioned the flow rate, you did not give a
time period.  Assuming that you meant one half gallon
per minute, that would seem to indicate a restricted
loop.  Granted, I don't know what kind of pump you are
using, but the typical small (1/25th HP) mag drive
pumps frequently used in RIMS/HERMS systems are
capable of 5 to 6 GPM at three feet of head.  If you
are only getting 0.5 GPM flow, you may need to examine
your setup for high head conditions.  How high is your
pump lifting the wort?  Are you using overly
restrictive valves?  If you are using solenoid valves,
be sure that they are rated for the lowest possible
pressure differential, preferably zero.  You also need
to check the coefficient of volume (CV), which will
tell you the maximum flow rate through the valve,
which varies with the diameter of the inner orifice. 
Other items which contribute to high head conditions
are standard port ball valves and the number of ells
in the loop.  And of course using too small a tubing
for your HERMS loop, which should be at least 0.5" OD.

Also, check the delta T on the coil.  With a flow rate
that low, the discharge temp from the HERMS should be
very close to your HL temp.  This *could* lead to
denaturing enzymes, if your HLT is at 170-180 F, so
you would need to either increase the flow rate or
lower the HL temp.

Hope that helps,
Kent Fletcher
brewing in So Cal





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Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:33:46 -0500
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: Double mash?

"Greg Man" Asked about Noonan's double
mash approach for a strong Scotch Ale.
 It had me puzzled for a while also.
  My take is as follows: given grist A,
Grist B. Kettle A, kettle B. Mash in grist A
and direct first runnings to kettle A. Run off
spargings and use to mash in grist B. First
runnings of grist B go to kettle A to satisfy
volume for "Heavy" boil.  Excess first
runnings and spargings of grist B go to kettle
B for small beer. 


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