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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Klingons Dead Ahead ("Doug Hurst")
  RE: Chest Freezer (Kent Fletcher)
  Setting the grain bed (Bill Tobler)
  RE: Best Vacuum Sealers and Digital Scales (Michael Hartsock)
  Foolish Phil's Foibles (Pat Babcock)
  HSA and batch sparging (Michael Grice)
  Vacuum sealers (widmayer)
  Speed of Sound in CO2 ("Darwin Airola")
  Temperature Variability in Mash (Ross Potter)
  MLK Brown Ale (darrell.leavitt)
  The Ethics of Homebrew Competition? (=?iso-8859-1?q?greg?=)
  March Pump Parts...6144MM (or 809HS) ("Stacy Groene")
  Yeast storage under sterilized water (Kevin McDonough)
  NEW: Plambic Brewers' Digest ("John Misrahi")
  Rice hulls and spice utilization (Tom Riddle)
  re: DCL, the MoB and the number 42 ("Steve Alexander")


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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 22:25:23 -0600
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: Re: Klingons Dead Ahead

John wrote:
 
"Well, the Romulan Ale wouldn't be that difficult but it might be hard
to 
find the 3 row and 9 row barley and the Romulan Yeast"
 
 
I thought Romulan Ale was made with Quadrotriticale (or is it Quad Row
Triticale?).  

 
Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL


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Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:58:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Chest Freezer

Christian needs a new lagering fridge/freezer in a
hurry:

"Does anyone know of a model freezer that can be
drilled to allow tap lines
to exit it. I have seen some with modified tops that
incorporate the taps in
the front of the freezer. But I need the tap lines to
exit through the top
then through the wall that leads to my bar.

Any ideas or suggestions would be great. Thanks"

If you mean a chest freezer, you can put holes through
the tops of any of them.  The only thing to avoid is
the wire to the "Power" light on some of them.  I
imagine you could make up lines with enough slack on
the inside to still be able to open the lid, and then
use foam tubing insulation on the lines from the lid
to your taps.

Chest freezers are cheap, even new at a Lowes or H.D.

Hope that helps,
Kent Fletcher





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Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 01:41:43 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Setting the grain bed

Hi everyone.  I've been having a discussion offline with a friend on
building a HERMS and how we brew in general.  The question came up on
whether it was wise to circulate the grain bed before the scarification rest
was finished.  In my HERMS, I start circulating from the beginning of the
mash through the end of mashout.  My efficiency has been up around 80%
lately.  Never thought much about it. My friend Greg says;

 "If you compact the grain bed early on, how does this allow for adequate
water/grist ratio. I know the same amount of water is in the mash but I
can't see where the enzymes have the freedom to do their job correctly. Be
no different than not allowing for dead space in the bottom of your tun.
Only difference would be the dead space would be above the grain bed instead
of below. Hope I got my point across with that explanation. A good loose
grain bed looks to me like would help matters a bit in that respect. What do
you think? Guess you could always stir it up once you hit your target temp.
tho'."

Thinking about it, he has a point, but I never thought about it much. Ever
sense I switched over to a HERMS, I have always circulated the mash.  My
first year of brewing with all grain, I used a Gott cooler as a mash tun
like many people do, and never circulate or set the bed until the end of the
mash.  Thanks for your thoughts and have a great day.  Having a hard time
sleeping tonight, got sunburned at the golf course today. :>)

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian






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Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 05:21:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Best Vacuum Sealers and Digital Scales

I don't know anything about vacuum sealers, but here
is my take on digital scales.

I love mine.  I have a pitney-bowes 5# digital scale
with tare function that is acurate to 0.1 oz.  Good
enough for hops as far as I'm concerned.  If you try
to get a scale that goes up higher that 5#, your lower
$$$!  If I were you, I'd just get a postal scale, mine
cost me $18 on ebay, and new ones sell at Sams or
other office stores for $30.  Good bargain I think.  I
like the convenience of being able to use any size
bowl I want to weigh.  I do have to weigh my base malt
in two or three shifts, but its really not much extra
trouble.  To eliminate this difficulty, plan on
getting two scales, or one rather expensive one.

mike



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Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:24:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Foolish Phil's Foibles


Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Br'er Phil spake thusly:

"You see....I broke my pump. or at least its my fault the SO broke my
pump...She hit the brewery with her car when it was -3F"

The solution, dear brother, for the initial problem, which I read as the
car having access to the brewery, is simple: STUFF THAT GARAGE!!! Lessee,
there's the commercial freezer, woodshop, basement remodelling materials,
Harley, bikes, kids' toys - no car can get within 20 feet of my brewery -
which, unfortunately, lay in pitiful disuse against the inside wall.
Remember: a true man is measured by the ballet steps required to step over
the stuff in the garage between the main and inside doors. Didn't your Dad
teach you that?

Per the wife being an INTENTIONAL assassin: get off that hunt. I've sat
and judged beer in her presence. And Brother Phil makes quite a
splendiferous brew, if I may say so myself. She'd never intentionally
whack his ability to do so. Unless things have really, really changed in
the Wilcox household...

Per the pump part, did you see if Brother Mike can get replacement parts
for it? (http://pico-brewing.com - and yes, I have a vested interest in
pico-brewing.com. He's a friend. There're few better investments in
another than friendship.)

- 
-- 

God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
                                   - Arlo Guthrie





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Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 21:25:36 -0600
From: Michael Grice <grice at binc.net>
Subject: HSA and batch sparging

Steve Alexander wrote:

>Don't overextract the grist - late runnings have much more fatty acids
>than early runnings.

While obviously skipping sparging would reduce the number of fatty acids
extracted, what effect do you suppose batch sparging would have on
extraction of fatty acids?


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Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 01:01:45 -0500
From: widmayer at chartermi.net
Subject: Vacuum sealers

Paul Romanowsky asks about vacuum sealers.

I can't speak to the best because I've only used one vacuum sealer, 
but I'm very happy with it.  It's a FoodSaver Vac 200 I got at Target.  
There were several different models by the same company and this 
was the smallest and least expensive ( I paid $60 plus tax I think).  I 
think it is as functional as the other models, but smaller and lacking 
some automatic features.  It won't use their gallon size bags or rolls 
but that's OK for me, as i don't need it for anything that big. They sell 
the bag rolls there too.  It's about $10 for 20-25 feet of bag roll.

Warren Widmayer
Chelsea, Michigan 



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Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 03:58:38 -0600
From: "Darwin Airola" <darwin at museplay.com>
Subject: Speed of Sound in CO2

Hello!

I am trying to determine the speed of sound in the CO2 gas of a beer keg
versus the pressure of the gas. Does anyone known how to go about this?

The equation that I was going to use was square root of the adiabatic
gas constant (gamma) times the gas constant (R) times the absolute
temperature (T) divided the molecular mass of the gas. Thus, if the
adiabatic constant of CO2 is 1.3, to calculate the speed of sound in the
CO2 gas of a beer keg, I would use the following equation:

v = sqrt( gamma * R * T / M ) = sqrt( 1.3 * 8.314 J/mol-K * T / 0.043999
kg/mol ) = 15.673 * sqrt(T) m/s

Does this analysis seem correct? Is the only dependence of the speed of
sound upon temperature (with no need to directly consider the pressure
that the CO2 in the keg is under)?

Take care,
Darwin Airola

 
 
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Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 10:48:40 -0800
From: Ross Potter <BurningBrite at charter.net>
Subject: Temperature Variability in Mash

I generally lurk and learn from the amazing wisdom and generosity of this 
group, so you rarely hear from me.  Yesterday, though, I observed something 
that may be of interest to the collective here on the HB Digest, and the 
discussion of which might help others.  I am very new at all-grain brewing 
(a whole 1 1/2 batches so far) so this observation may be common knowledge 
for those with more experience, but here goes...

As I was mashing in this morning (enjoying Koko Taylor and Pine Top Perkins 
on the stereo, and looking forward to noon so I could crack a homebrew) and 
minding the temperature of my saccharification rest, I noticed that my 
thermometer reading fluctuated several degrees in the mash.  I know that 
this has been discussed before on the HBD, so I thought it might be lack of 
homogeneity in the mash that was causing the shifts.  I stirred the mash 
around a good bit and measured again.  I then noticed the following 
"phenomenon":

Whenever I had the thermometer in contact with the mash itself, I would 
read one temperature, but whenever I twirled and shook the thermometer (it 
is one of those Brewers Best glass floating kind) so that a pocket of water 
formed around it, the temperature would rise about 2 to 4 degrees.  This 
was not an isolated event; I repeated it several times, in several 
different locations around the mash tun (a 40-qt Coleman plastic cooler), 
at several different levels within the mash.  First it would read one 
temperature, then after getting a pocket of water to form it would read 
higher.  So being a newbie, this raised several questions for me as I have 
not heard this phenomenon discussed in the HB Digest yet:

1)  Is this a reasonably likely occurrence or was I simply hallucinating 
from blues in the morning and lack of beer?  In other words, have others 
observed this to happen and if so, what would be the likely 
chemical/physical explanation?

2)  If this isn't an error on my part, which temperature reading should I 
be relying on to determine temperatures in the mash?  The 
"in-contact-with-the-grain" temp, the "water-pocket" temp, or some average 
of the two?

3)  From a purely theoretical interest standpoint (and assuming this is a 
valid observation), what could this mean for the starch/sugar conversion 
processes as the desired ingredients migrate from the grain kernels into 
solution and then are degraded by the enzymes?  Is there a thermodynamic 
gradient effect here that would be worthy of a Masters (maybe even a PhD) 
thesis in homebrewing, or is there essentially no benefit of this knowledge 
for purposes of making beer?

ANY thoughts, including pointing out how my readings could be in error (so 
I can make corrections for my next mash), will be appreciated.  Thanks in 
advance...

Ross Potter
Richland, Washington



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Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 15:49:21 -0500
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: MLK Brown Ale

I just transferred into secondary...a brown ale that I brewed on Martin 
Luther Kings Birthday...and it tasted so good that, even though it does 
not conform to any style...I just had to share it with someone...

This was the third use of a Belgian Saison yeast (wlp 565) which I have 
really started to like.,..

I called it a brown ale, and while it is brown, I suppose that it could 
just as inappropriately be called a Belgian Dark Strong Ale,...well maybe..

Here is the recipe:

10.5 lb Canada Maltings 2 row
  .5 lb Special B
 1.0 1b Fawcett's Dark Crystal
 2.0 lb Maize
 1.0 lb Munich
  .5 lb Peated Malt
  .5 lb Roasted Barley (I meant to use Chocolate, but grabbed the wrong 
bag, which was not marked...)

1 rest at 154 for 60 min, mashout,...

first runnings were 1.082
boil gravity was 1.069
original gravity was 1.080
gravity into secondary was 1.015

This is strong (~8.45%), tastes wonderful (slightly smoked)...not really 
true to any style, but wonderful in flavor...

oh,,,hops were 1.5 oz Tet at start of last 60 min (total 2 hour boil)
               1.0 oz Czech Saaz at 30
               same at 15

Happy Brewing!

 ..Darrell




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Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 00:13:23 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?greg?= <invalid76 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: The Ethics of Homebrew Competition?

Ok, first off a little background information...  I
entered my first homebrew competition last July.  I
was only in my 4th month of homebrewing when I decided
to give the competition a shot and I started brewing 2
months before the final entry date. Needless to say, I
didn't have a lot of batches under my belt.  

When it came time to pick a recipe, it just seemed
wrong to me to choose one that I got from a book,
magazine, internet, etc. and I decided to make one up
 - probably not the best idea due to lack of
experience.  I did it anyway. 

The same competition will be rolling around before I
know it and lately I've been thinking what I'm going
to brew.  Begging the question, is it unethical to
make a beer from someone else's recipe, published or
not?  Does it matter anyway since beers turned out
different due to all the variables (water chemistry
for one) that can make the same recipe turned out
different when brewed by different people?

Am I in a minority when I think the entry should be
original and not from, say, Clonebrews?  Why or why
not? 



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Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 20:27:44 -0500
From: "Stacy Groene" <stacygroene at wideopenwest.com>
Subject: March Pump Parts...6144MM (or 809HS)

In HBD 4159 Philip Wilcox askes about parts for his 6144MM pump purchased
from Moving Brews:

Phil,

As others have stated, try www.Marchpump.com.  You will not find pump 6144MM
on their site, but the actual March Part# on the 6144MM I ordered from
Moving Brews is March # 809HS...See the link below to a PDF file with the
parts list for this pump:

http://www.marchpump.com/documents/Series%20809%20Parts%20Sheet.pdf

BTW, the part number for the plastic housing is 809-079-10, and the Brass
housing is 809-013-10.

You can always contact a local dist., but at least this link will give you
the March part number for the housing you need.

If your pump is other than an 809HS...all of the parts lists can be found at
http://www.marchpump.com/documents/pdf.htm

Regards,

Stacy Groene
Pickerington, OH



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Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 20:40:41 -0500
From: Kevin McDonough <kmcdonou at nmu.edu>
Subject: Yeast storage under sterilized water

I've read a ton on how to store yeast under sterilized, distilled water, in 
small vials kept at room temperature and it sounds like a great 
idea.  However, almost all of the articles talk about transferring the 
initial yeast from a plate of agar.  I would prefer to avoid doing the agar 
thing.  It adds more steps to the process, requires me to get more 
supplies, and most importantly, increases the risk of 
contamination.  Rather, I want to take my yeast directly from tubes of 
Wyeast or White Labs.

However, the articles I have read say not to introduce nutrients into the 
storage solution. The idea is to get the yeast to go dormant by providing 
an environment absent of nutrients.  However, the tubes have wort mixed 
with the yeast. As I understand it, the smack packs have the yeast in the 
inner liner. I guess I could open the packet, remove the inner liner, 
pierce it somehow, and then remove the yeast via a wire loop.

Those of you more knowledgeable on this topic, how do you suggest I 
transfer yeast (via an innoculated wire loop) from a Wyeast/White Labs tube 
(or a smack pack)?

As a point of clarification, do I stick the wire loop in the yeast and then 
immediately into a small vial of sterilized distilled water?  Is this is 
plenty of yeast for a vial?

I appreciate your help.



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Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 21:35:19 -0500
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: NEW: Plambic Brewers' Digest

Hi all,
I just started a new list, the Plambic Brewers' Digest. I'm hoping it can
fill the void where the old Lambic Digest used to be.

Please visit:

https://secure.neap.net/mailman/listinfo/plambic

to subscribe.

hope to see you there soon,

John Misrahi
Montreal, Canada

 [892, 63] Apparent Rennerian (km)

"You're all wanking sissies if you even think about using a grain mill,
teeth, or ball-peen hammer.  A real brewer uses 17 vestal virgins
stomping on the grain in a large wooden vat.  And yeast is for losers.
True brewers just dip one end of their dog into the wort to get things
going." -- Drew Avis

Seen on a tee shirt - "The internet is full. Go away!"





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Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 22:23:48 -0500
From: Tom Riddle <ftr at oracom.com>
Subject: Rice hulls and spice utilization


Over the weekend I made my first pass at a Belgian Wit.  I have two 
questions:

1) The recipe included flaked wheat and flaked rye along with some rice 
hulls to aid sparging.  Should the rice hulls be included in calculating 
mash water volume ?  Obviously, they provide no extract, but their 
presence does impact mash stiffness.

2) The recipe had spice additions (crushed Coriander and Cumin seeds) at 
45min and 60min.  I accidentially added what should have been the 45min 
addition at 0min with the bittering hops.  What will be the result - 
more spice flavor or less ?


Thanks,
Tom
Portsmouth, NH



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Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:10:47 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: DCL, the MoB and the number 42

Wow Alan,

Thanks for the review.    Thanks also to Mark Kellums and all the many
others in between who've posted their experience w/ DCL dry yeasts.

>I've done quite a few beers with S-189 and W-34/70 and
>absolutely love them both!  Very clean yeasts and both
>seem to be able to easily handle regular (low) lager
>temps.

W34/70 is the same critter as Weihenstephan W-34/70.  This one is reportedly
a strong diacetyl reducer - this property went a long way toward kicking
W-308 (WY2308) which was an erratic diacetyl reducer out of Germany in favor
of W-34/70.

To quote DCL ... DCL S-189 is Weihenstephan W-195,  and originating from the
Hurlimann brewery in Switzerland. "Selected for its fairly neutral flavour
development, this yeast is recommended for a wide range of lager and pilsen
beers".

I'd expect good lagers from either,but the experience counts a lot more.
DCL has several new dry yeasts in the works btw.

 -S



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