---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  GUINNESS WIDGET (MATTHEW HAHN)
  Jethro on FermCap ("Rob Moline")
  Jethro on Guinness Widgets ("Rob Moline")
  Re: Promash Recipe Archives Online (Teresa Knezek)
  Ayinger yeast ("Dan Gross")
  RE: Distance from Kegerator? (eIS) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
  Plambic Digest Accident ("John Misrahi")
  Re: French farm ale (Jeff Renner)
  Deadband Controller ("Reddy, Pat")
  Re: Reusing the Guinness Widget (Mark Kempisty)
  RE: Completly Automated All-Grain Brewing (Mark Alfaro)
  FermCap (Paddock Wood)
  Scrubbies (Richard Foote)
  Thanks! ("Adam Wead")
  correction to pitching rates (Paddock Wood)
  WZZ Homebrew Comp 2003 Results ("John C. Tull")
  TMS And Naked Greed (rscotty)


*
* Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! 
* http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping
*
* The HBD Logo Store is now open!
* http://www.cafeshops.com/hbdstore
*
* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
*

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req at hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 23:33:48 -0500
From: MATTHEW HAHN <mchahn at earthlink.net>
Subject: GUINNESS WIDGET

I got the book BEER CAN CHICKEN as a gift. It contains recipes that call 
for an open can of beer to be inserted into a whole chicken on the 
grill. As I rarely drink canned beer, I am wondering if it is safe to do 
this with a Guinness or other can that contains a widget. Anybody try it?



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 00:27:11 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: Jethro on FermCap

			Jethro on FermCap

>From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
>Subject: FermCap
>Our local brew pub is now pushing up daisies, so one of the LHBS picked up
 .some "professional" brewing stuff from the owner. One such item was a
nearly
 .full 1 litre bottle of FermCap,<SNIP>
>I was surprised by how thick it is. The anti-foam I'm used to getting was
>fairly watery, this stuff is like sludge in comparison.<SNIP>
>So, am I using this stuff right?

     Yes, you are using it right...

     I have been using FC for years, buying it by the gallon from Crosby &
Baker, and some time ago acquired some of the thick stuff. After a few calls
to C&B, and some trans-atlantic calls and faxes, I received replacement FC,
in exchange for a sample that was sent back to Ireland for analysis. To
date, I have no reports on the returned sample, so my speculation is just
that this particular batch was manufactured out of viscosity
standards....and can be used, as I did, in exactly the same manner as normal
FC, except that it's a pain to use. Literally, "Thick as a Brick."
     Performance in the kettle and fermenter met requirements.
     BTW, thanks go to Quest-Siebel Ireland, Crosby and Baker, and
especially Bob Makuch of C&B for their excellent customer service.

Gump

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 2/25/2003



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 00:42:23 -0600
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: Jethro on Guinness Widgets

			Jethro on Guinness Widgets

     From my understanding, a dose of liquid nitrogen in the can or bottle
immediately prior to sealing/capping is the mechanism necessary for
satisfactory performance from the widget. This forces the product and CO2/N2
into the widget.
     Apart from the difficulty involved in cleaning the interior of the
re-used widget, I wonder if bottle conditioned or even force carb'd and CP
filled bottles would produce the desired effect.
     I suspect that easier success would be gained by utilization of a
cask/beer engine regime...or N2/CO2 blend for nitrogenation/carbonation
along with a Guinness faucet...for less hass.

Gump

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 2/25/2003



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 22:55:07 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: Re: Promash Recipe Archives Online

On or thereabout 3/5/03, Request Address Only - No Articles spoke thusly:
>It also has a Super Duper Backend PrOH-CessOR that is charged by 
>actual working North Pole Elves! Or Elvis's I really don't remember 
>all the facts don'tchaknow...

It would have to be the Elvii, not North Pole Elves. I live not 30 
miles from North Pole, AK, and I guarantee most of the beer drinkers 
in N.P. are not only human (rather than elvish), but most wouldn't 
know a good beer if it exploded in their bathroom closet during 
bottle conditioning...

I do know of one good homebrewer in N.P., but he definitely isn't an 
elf, and I don't think he worked on your site. ;-)
- -- 
::Teresa : Two Rivers, Alaska::
[2849, 325] Apparent Rennerian

"It has been my experience that folks who
have no vices have very few virtues."
                      -- Abraham Lincoln


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 06:39:43 -0500
From: "Dan Gross" <degross at starpower.net>
Subject: Ayinger yeast

Thanks to all who responded to my question about a source for degermed corn
meal to be used in Classic American Pilsner.

Now I have a yeast question.
I have always had trouble with lager yeast and I need some tips on handling
the yeast before pitching.  As I said in an earlier post I found Ayinger
yeast (WLP833 German Bock) and I have made a half gallon starter in a gallon
jug on Sunday evening.

It has quieted down after three days and I wonder if I should
1) just let it be at 64F until I brew on the weekend
2) move it to the fridge and drop all the yeast at 45F until the weekend
3) decant and add 1/2 gallon fresh wort at this point, (I would do it
tonight which is Wednesday) then chill Saturday night, and decant Sunday
before pitching.

There is probably 4 or 5 ounces of slurry at the bottom of my gallon jug now
(I pitched two tubes of yeast).  Is that going to be enough or should I step
it up?

Dan Gross
Olney, Md



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:07:20 -0500 
From: "Jones, Steve (eIS) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
Subject: RE: Distance from Kegerator?

Ryan,
Rather than concern yourself with the distance of an uncooled line, why not
cool it?

Here's what you could do for a rather minimal expense:
1. Cut a 3" diameter hole in the side of the kegerator & mount a 3" PVC pipe
flange
2. Run a piece of 3" PVC pipe with a piece of 2" PVC pipe inside of it from
the kegerator to your draft tower
3. Run your beer lines in the space between the 3" & 2" pipes.
4. Mount a 2" PC fan on the end of the 2" pipe inside the kegerator to
circulate cold air thru it.
5. Insulate the whole thing with 3" pipe insulation, or wrap with other
insulation of your choice.

This will circulate cold air from the kegerator thru the whole assembly,
keeping your beer lines cool.

Hope this helps,
Steve Jones, Johnson City, TN
State of Franklin Homebrewers http://hbd.org/franklin
[421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian






Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:45:11 -0500
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: Plambic Digest Accident

Hi all,

Just to let you know that due to a computer accident, the archives from the
Plambic digest, as well as any subscribers who joined after the date
february 13th were deleted.

Any one interested in re-joining the list is invited to do so of course

john misrahi
 
[892, 63] Apparent Rennerian (km)

"Actually John it uses a very complex algorithm to determine your average
time between "Generate" clicks, and from that can it figures out how drunk
you are, and what styles of beer you prefer.  Obviously, you prefer obscure
Belgians!" - Drew Avis

Seen on a tee shirt - "The internet is full. Go away!"





Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 09:37:56 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: French farm ale

"Charlie Schlismann" <racegt6 at attbi.com> writes

>I've a hankering for a biere de garde.

Me too!  Please let us know what you might find out.

I think some kind of Belgian yeast might work, but so many would be so wrong.

Sad that the Yeast Culture Kit Co. is out of business.  Some years 
ago I shared a wonderful bottle of biere de garde with Dan that he 
cultured the yeast from.  It was hand carried from a French brew-pub 
or micro (yes, there are a few) by a neighbor across the street from 
him.

WhiteLabs will be getting Dan's entire collection, but I don't know 
what they'll be doing with it.

I think your best bet is to try to culture from a fresh bottle.

I think that your guess of pils and wheat malts sounds good, with low 
hops from Hallertauer.  Maybe a little sugar.  OG probably around 
1.080.

Jeff

- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:04:36 -0600 
From: "Reddy, Pat" <Pat.Reddy at mavtech.cc>
Subject: Deadband Controller

Heads up J. Keller,

>Fortunately, Cole Parmer has just started a promotion
>on ON-OFF temperature controllers.  For $39 you get
>a 16A SPST relay, deadband control, and a probe (probably
>not waterproof).

A deadband controller is not the same (not even close) to the PID
controllers you've seen so much talk about here the last few days.  A
deadband controller is just as it sounds.  Set your desired temp to 150 with
an 8 degree deadband and your heating element (RIMS) will go on until 154 is
reached and then shut off until the temp drops down to 146 then ramp the
temp up to 154 again.  Or, in HERMS terms...the heat exchange solenoid will
remain open until your probe, where ever it may be, reads 154 then switch to
the bypass until the low side of 146 in sensed.  This would no doubt cause a
serious temperature fluctuation exactly like Dennis Collins described in his
attempt to discredit us superior HERMS brewers :) . A PID controller on the
other hand will learn to switch it's output(s) on and off to MAINTAIN a
setpoint temperature by applying it's control output (0-100%) to the amount
of time the output(s) are held on.  This equates to little, if any in some
designs, temperature fluctuation. Granted PID controllers are expensive IF
YOU BUY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE BUT eBay!  I bought a brand new $200 CAL 9900
temp controller a few months ago for under $40.  For all you eBay
illiterates out there...simply go to eBay and Search with 'Temperature
Controller' and maybe such names as 'CAL', 'Omega', or 'Watlow'.  eBay is
the home-brewer-on-a-budgets best friend.  I just picked up a brand new
Johnson A-19 thermostat for a homemade lagering fridge for $38, a 1 lb. bag
of PolyClar for $6, and a brand new 1/2 MPT stainless RTD probe for $16.  
So there's my one time plug for the greatest shopping mall in your
neighborhood.  Adios.

Pat Reddy
MAVERICK Technologies
Controls Engineer 



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 10:25:17 -0500
From: Mark Kempisty <kempisty at pav.research.panasonic.com>
Subject: Re: Reusing the Guinness Widget

I was reading Bob Boland's note about reusing the Guiness widget and
starting to think how you would purge the air out of it assuming you had
saved a bunch.  He pointed out that if you use it right away it will
stay sanitary.  But just as important, it should not have any oxygen in
it.  Bob's method should definitely achieve that.

I assume the manufacturing process sanitizes these things but I wonder
if Guiness purges them with CO2/N2 before using them.  Using N2 might be
a real easy way of getting it into the bottle.

- --
Take care,
Mark






Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 08:32:44 -0800
From: Mark Alfaro <malfaro at kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: RE: Completly Automated All-Grain Brewing

In HBD# 4187, Caryl writes:

With the stirrer, I'm afraid I'll push grain under my
false bottom. With the rims, I'm afraid I'll suck grain under the false
bottom. Both ways, I'll have a good possibility of getting a stuck mash by
grain getting where it shouldn't be. How does everyone out there handle
this problem?

  Hi Caryl,

I have a RIMS system with a mash tun made from a 15.5 gallon Sanke Keg. To 
fabricate the tun, I cut the bottom out and use the top opening where the 
draw tube used to go as my center drain. I welded a tank spud over the end 
of the neck. The tank spud has a 1/2" FPT opening in it to which I threaded 
my wort outlet manifold. I fabricated a hinged, perforated stainless false 
bottom with standoffs that elevate the false bottom to where it is level 
with the weld seam that attaches the straight walled portion of the keg to 
the domed end of the keg. I made a filter out of stainless mesh that is 
shaped like a sock. This filter fits snugly into my center drain to catch 
any particles that get past the false bottom. This arrangement works very 
well and keeps all the particles in the mash tun and out of my pump.

Regards,
Mark Alfaro
Chula Vista, CA
1950,262.1 AR



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 12:33:15 -0600
From: Paddock Wood <experts at paddockwood.com>
Subject: FermCap


Brian wrote:
I was surprised by how thick it is. The anti-foam I'm used to getting was
fairly watery, this stuff is like sludge in comparison. Anyway, I used some
in the boil kettle (about 1/4 tsp) and it seemed to do the job. No massive
foam up. In the fermenter, it seemed to be another story. Again about 1/4
tsp which slowly dripped off the measuring spoon in little blobs (did I
mention this stuff is thick?) that just sort of sat there without really
spreading out. It did not seem to have the desired effect while I ran my
aquarium pump. The foam still built up into a stiff heap several inches
thick. Be interesting to see what happens when (if) the yeast starts
building a krausen (don't believe for a second that White Labs tubes of
lager yeast are "pitchable", not for cold pitching like I do anyway).

- -------------------------------------
Brian,  in a kettle the boiling action dissipates this Silica goop (for lack
of a better technical word), but in fermenters it is usually applied in
spray form and is diluted to a workable viscosity.  It can be diluted in
water or cool wort, but should only be diluted right before use.  If stored
undiluted in a fridge (between 5C and 12C) it has a shelf-life of one year.

As for rate of usage, I put some info on my web site
http://www.paddockwood.com/catalog_chemicals.html#WATER
but the rate varies from 1 to 8gm per HL.

While I am here, high levels of aeration require increased dose levels of
FermCap too.

On the not quite related point of yeast pitching levels, I believe you need
to increase pitching rates for "cold pitching".   DCL suggests approximately
1.5 gms per L at 12C but 3 gms per L at 9C.

Steve Cavan  -- in vino veritas,  at in cerevisiae voluptas


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 14:57:53 -0500
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: Scrubbies


Dave Burley writes:

>Metallurgist John Palmer believes green scrubbies are the answer for cleaning
>SS vessels, and so do I, but wonder if Stainless Steel Wool scrubbies now
>available as "non rusting SS cleaning pads" would be OK to use??

I have used the same ss scrubby that I purchased at a commercial restaurant
supply for, I swear, the last 15 years.  Of course, it's considerably
smaller than when it was new.  I try to limit it's use to cleaning ss other
than fermenters.  It really is rather course and suspect it could cause
scratches and crannies as potential habitat for little nasties.  For
stubborn stuff (scorched areas--doh!), I'll use it first, then fininsh with
something less course, like a green or white scrubby.

BTW, white scrubbies have been recommended to me by professional brewers as
preferred for cleaning fermenters, as green scrubbies were seen as too
course for this.  Also, if at all possible, scrub in the direction of the
"grain" as opposed to across it, which can cause cross-hatching.

Hope this helps,

Rick Foote
Whistle Pig Brewing
Thinking "6% solution" in Murrayville, GA





Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 13:45:44 -0700
From: "Adam Wead" <a_wead at hotmail.com>
Subject: Thanks!


Dear All:

Just wanted to say a big thanks to all the fridge recommendations I've 
gotten.  I've narrowed my choices down to the Danby DAR452 model, and a 
Kenmore 3.6 cu. ft. model available from Sears.  Target sells a Danby model 
fridge, but I'm not sure if it's the same one.  Fortunately, Sears and 
Target are in the same mall here.

brewfully yours,

adam wead
(bloomington, in)







Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 15:08:20 -0600
From: Paddock Wood <experts at paddockwood.com>
Subject: correction to pitching rates


It dawned on me this afternoon that once again there was a good reason I
studied Ancient Greek and not science. I should avoid math problems all
together. DCL suggests what would be 15 gm in 20 L, which of course is 0.75
gm per L not 1.5 gm per L.  But 3gm per L at 9C still holds. I guess the
importance of higher pitching rates in cold wort is increased thereby as
well.


Steve Cavan  -- in vino veritas,  at in cerevisiae voluptas


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 15:17:22 -0800
From: "John C. Tull" <jctull at unr.edu>
Subject: WZZ Homebrew Comp 2003 Results

The results for the 2003 Washoe Zephyr Zymurgists competition are 
online now. The 101 entries, all the wonderful judges, the stewards, 
and the volunteers made this an excellent event.

Prizes, awards, judge forms and all that good stuff will be 
snail-mailed by next week (or an explanation thereof for some prizes).

See the results here:
http://134.197.55.114/wzz/Results_2003.html

Cheers,
John C. Tull
Organizer



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 00:18:08 +0000
From: rscotty at attbi.com
Subject: TMS And Naked Greed

Bad news for those of us who procrastinated on constructing a conical 
fermentor.  Toledo Metal Spinning has doubled all their prices on the conical 
hopper family.  The 12.5 gallon model TMS16914 was about $74 as memory 
serves.  It is now $152 - a little over 100% jump overnight!

Does anyone know of another source for these vessels?  TMS got greedy...

Rich Scotty
Chief Fabricator
The Crapshoot Brewery


Return to table of contents

---