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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Intolerance is brewing!! (Robert Marshall)
  opinions and -S's boat of dung (Brian Dube)
  Fat Tire Clone Needed (djhbrew98)
  RE:  Jalapeno Lovers Unite! (somewhere else)/taste in food+beer (Michael Hartsock)
  Skunking and light ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Pepper Brew (Travis Miller)
  Re: Skotrat on Cascade Hops (Jeff Renner)
  Dopplebock Tasting Summary ("Hall, Kevin")
  RE: Jalapeno Lovers Unite! ("Doug Hurst")
  visible and UV light (Alan Meeker)
  Herb/Spice & Veggies in beer... (Bev Blackwood II)
  Beer Fuel ("Tom White")
  UV versus Blue light in skunking (James Keller)
  Cascade hops popularity (Jeff Renner)
  Smoothies...and UV Light ("Mike Sharp")
  Frankenmuth World Expo of Beers ("Rogers, Mike")
  UV vs. violet-blue light and "skunky" beer (Walter J Doherty)
  Call for Judges - Indiana State Fair (Paul Edwards)
  I need some help.. ("Melba F. Gutierrez")
  Re: Arrogant Bastard (Kent Fletcher)


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Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:43:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Marshall <robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com>
Subject: Intolerance is brewing!!

Man, oh man!! I haven't seen this much intolerance for
a LONG time.

So what if someone wants to put vegetables or fruit or
spices, or whatever, in their brew?

If I decide to try something, your long winded post
filled with drivel isnt' going to make me change my
mind.

I have to admit, chili beer is not my cup of tea, but
I have sampled it and I could see where people that
like chili could like it (BTW: Chile is the country,
NOT the food). And there are a LOTS of people that
like it, especially in the Orient, where Cave Creek
Chili Beer is a big seller.

Robert



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 00:35:55 -0500
From: Brian Dube <brian.dube at gotgoat.com>
Subject: opinions and -S's boat of dung

If you like beer spiced with jalapeno, habanero, or whatever else, by
all means brew it and drink it. If you don't like it, why spend your
time trying to convince people that it's a colossal mistake or the
result of a simple, childlike palate? Steve, you said yourself that
it's not bad to disagree, so get over yourself and let people brew what
they like. No one said you have to like it, drink it, or accept it as a
bona fide style. Arguments like these do nothing to benefit the
homebrewing community and, in fact, make this digest--at times a
valuable resource--a pain to read. I'm sorry I don't have citations of
peer-reviewed essays and articles to support my stance on this issue.

- --
Brian Dube
Columbia, Missouri



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 04:15:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: djhbrew98 at yahoo.com
Subject: Fat Tire Clone Needed

I am looking for a fat tire clone recipe. If anyone
has one or knows where I can find one please post or
e-mail.

Thank you,
Darryl 

Hickey Family Brewing & Meadery
Brewing at ten feet above sea level 
with bar stool correction.





Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 05:15:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:  Jalapeno Lovers Unite! (somewhere else)/taste in food+beer

I couldn't DISagree with you more!  Yes, there is
evidence that tastes evolve over time.  But if you
look culturally and historically, most indigenous
dishes are starchy, and overspiced.  Need I point out
mexican and Indian dishes?  I've never tasted curry
and said, "My that is balanced!"  Neither has that
been the case with Thai food.  Even eaten Irish food? 
That is about as bland and one-dimentional as it
comes.  And yet they are masters of beer!  

So where are you going with this, -s?  Just a culinary
elitist?  

Jazz is the only truely original american art form. 
The spirit behind Jazz drives authentic american
creations.  A benefit of not being a nation with deep
cultural roots, is that we are not bound to cultural
roots.  That is the reason Jazz could be concieved in
the Mississippi delta.  

So what is the difference in using jalapenos or orange
peel?  One is traditional, one is not.  

Welcome to america!

Jazz! (mike, in columbia, MO)

=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:40:36 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at umich.edu>
Subject: Skunking and light

There are lots of references out there.  But here's a picture.

http://realbeer.com/spencer/bottle.html

What you see here is a graph of the light transmission characteristics 
of various kinds of bottles.  The higher the line on the graph, the LESS 
light of that color gets through.  You can see that all glass is fairly 
opaque in the UV part of the spectrum, and that the main difference 
between brown & green glass is in the blue-green part.  So, if brown 
bottles protect from skunking better than green bottles do, the 
blue-green part of the spectrum must contribute to skunking.

I've got some real references around somewhere, but undoubtedly another 
HBD reader will come up with them before I can find them. :-)

=Spencer



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:43:04 -0600
From: Travis Miller <TravisMiller at comcast.net>
Subject: Pepper Brew

> Outside the box ? You're totally lost, Scott !   Pepper beer isn't
> innovative.
> It's a completely predictable Americanism geared toward simple palates.

There were those who argued in the 16th century hops didn't have any
business being in ale either.  Particularly the biships that were producing
gruit and supporting the church with the profit.  There were penalties
imposed by the church for importing hopped ales.  Another group who will
tell you the ubiquitious hop isn't all its cracked up to be are herbalists.
Hops are a well known estrogenic and diuretic.  This makes for a rather
potent anaaphrodisiac in men.  There is a condition known as Brewer's Droop
which I think is descriptive enough to get the point across.  An
professional herbalist friend of mine refuses to drink hopped beers and so
makes his own "traditional" brews.  These have included ingredients like
juniper, yarrow, heather, mugwort, worm wood and so forth.  All of these
herbs have a number of medicinal uses and some are purported to make the
beer more inebriating well as an aphrodisiac.  Lets not forget that most
primitive/traditional cultures that make beer are consuming it primarily for
religious/ritual purposes.  It isn't out of the realm of reason to think
that beers in Europe developed in this manner also.  My point being that it
is a bit short sighted to say that an addition of hot peppers to a beer
would be simplistic sort of thinking. Some might say the addition of hops is
a bit of a floppy proposition.  If the base beer is for all intents and
purposes is a good beer, the style can be matched to the peppers in a
reasonable manner and not over done then I see no reason why the peppers
would not enhance the beer for those who have a taste for that sort of
thing.


 > Some other
> strong and sweet flavors - like cinnamon and ginger just don't work - tho'
I
> can't point to a generalized principle to explain why.

Pick up an Indian cook book sometime.  Ginger and cinnamon are in every
Indian dish I have ever made, not to mention the dreaded hot pepper.  You
want to talk about pushing the edge of what sorts of strong flavors and
aromas go together?  Try making Saag Gosht and let me know what your house
smells like for the next week.  More than 1 billion people speaking Hindi
couldn't be wrong.

Travis
"Think for yourself, question authority." Dennis Leary




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:49:17 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Skotrat on Cascade Hops

Scott <skotrat at attbi.com> opined that it was Tom Smit down under who 
thought that North American brewers didn't like Cascade hops.  Nope, 
it was
jason <jtlemprierejones at bigpond.com>, who wrote, after I asked where 
he got the idea that we didn't like them:

>I got the impression from RatChat, that you lot don't like the Cascade.

Since it was a public post, I figure I'm not divulging any secrets.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:00:31 -0400
From: "Hall, Kevin" <Kevin_Hall at bausch.com>
Subject: Dopplebock Tasting Summary

I realize that this is not exactly scientific or timely, as we did this is
December 2002, but I thought that the collective would be interested in some
of the random fun you can have with several samples of finely crafted
beverages. If anyone would care for a formatted pdf version (which makes the
tabular data easier to read) please email me privately and I will be more
than happy to oblige.

- ----------

German-Style Dopplebock Tasting Summary
The beginning
On December 28, 2002 three good friends who enjoy beer got together for a
bit of blind taste testing. The style on tap this auspicious evening was
German Dopplebock, a favorite amongst the gathered. Seven likely suspects
were gathered for this flight, a few more than is probably good for testing,
but we really didn't care. BJCP this is definitely not.

Details
The reviewed beers are in alphabetical order:

Allegauer Cambonator
Augustiner Maximator
Ayinger Celebrator
Paulaner Salvator
Sam Adams Doublebock
Spaten Optimator
Wagner Valley (Lodi, NY) Sleddog Dopplebock

Each were evaluated against the (more or less) standard AHA description as
follows:

German-style Dopplebock
Malt sweetness is dominant but should not be cloying. Dopplebocks are full
bodied and deep amber to dark brown in color. Astringency from roast malt is
absent. Alcoholic strength is high, and hop rates increase with gravity. Hop
bitterness and flavor should be low and hop aroma absent. Fruity esters are
commonly perceived but at lot to moderate levels.

Original Gravity (Plato):  1.074-1.080 (18.5-20P)
Apparent Extract/Final Gravity (Plato):  1.020-1.028 (5-7P)
Alcohol by Weight (Volume):  5.2-6.2% (6.5-8%)
Bitterness:  17-27 IBU
Color SRM (EBC):  12-30 (24.0-60 EBC)

Each of the reviewed beers were evaluated by these experienced, yet
untrained, drinkers on the following characteristics:
Appearance
Aroma
Taste
Mouthfeel
Drinkability

Each evaluator rating the categories on an arbitrary scale of 1-5 with half
point increments. At the completion of tasting all seven entrants, each was
ranked from 1 to 7. These rankings were then compared between the evaluators
to determine the best in show. Now on with the results. 

Raw Testing Results
(These have been omitted here for space, and the raw text format is not
conducive to tables, as you can see the final summary below. The formatted
version is much prettier and informative.)
 
Rankings
After the initial evaluation was completed, the testers then rank ordered
each against the other. Here are those results:

	Beer					T1	T2	T3	Rank
6	Augustiner Maximator			1	1	2	1.3
4	Ayinger Celebrator			2	4	1	2.3
7	Allegauer Cambonator			4	2	3	3.0
5	Sam Adams Doublebock		5	3	4	4.0
2	Paulaner Salvator			3	7	5	5.0
1	Wagner Valley Sleddog Dopplebock	6	5	5	5.3
3	Spaten Optimator			7	6	7	6.7

The best of the flight was straightforward with Augustiner Maximator being
selected as two number ones, and one two. The second best was slightly more
difficult with Allegauer Cambonator getting a two, three and four, and
Ayinger Celebrator getting a two, four, and one. The big disappointment was
last place Spaten Optimator, which had always been held in very high regard,
coming in a very distant last, being bested by the two American entries
which finished almost predictably behind nearly all of the German
contestants. Sam Adams did do a very respectable fourth ahead of even
eponymous Paulaner. Kudos should be extended to Wagner Valley for
respectfully stepping into a very difficult style category which hardly has
a huge following outside of the hardcore beer aficionados. 

Bottomline

This was absolutely not a scientific determination of Dopplebocks, but more
of a reason for three friends to get together to have a few beers. I guess
we were running out of reasons for a while, but we're doing better now. No
one in the group is remotely qualified as a judge, but we all know a good
one when we see one. One of us is an active homebrewer (that's me) and avid
beer reader; two is a very active Beer Advocate Mug Clubber who spends many
hours perusing the aisles and internet for something he hasn't seen before;
while three just really enjoys having a few good beers, well maybe more than
a few.

The next time I'm looking for a good Dopplebock, I'll look beyond the
obvious suspects and try something a bit lesser known, but definitely not
smaller.

Future Steps

The next quarterly evaluation will expand slightly with the addition of two
other beer enthusiasts and will cover an appropriate seasonal style which
may prove difficult to fill out adequately:  Marzen. (maybe)










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Thank You



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Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:07:08 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: RE: Jalapeno Lovers Unite!


The brewer formerly known as Steve goes on a long diatribe about taste
combinations in food to explain his disgust for chili beer.  Not until
the very end does he give us a real indication of the source of his
prejudice when he writes: "I first tried chili beer about 10 years ago
(Cave Creek), and have several times since and I always think it's one
step better than a phenolic infection and one step worse than excess
diacetyl."

Your problem with chili beer isn't the style, it's the particular
example of the style you've experienced.  I agree that Cave Creek is a
terrible beer which is way out of balance.  It's a light lager with an
actual Jalapeno in the bottle (if memory serves).  It's way too hot and
there's nothing else in the beer to compliment the spiciness.  I
remember my first sip was like being hit with pepper spray.  After my
second sip I said "this is hot" with a strain on my face and rasp in my
voice.  My third sip was only a reaction to wanting something to drink
because my mouth was on fire and drinking beer to cool down was an
instinctual reaction.  Of course this only exacerbated the situation.  I
think the rest of the 6-pack was used for cooking spicy food.

On the other hand, The Great Dane brewpub in Madison WI once made a
Habanero beer which made me realize this style has merit.  It was based
on a APA recipe and wasn't at all overly spicy.  It had a nice light
hoppy (fuggle perhaps) aroma.  The chili was not evident.  The first sip
gave you a nice APA flavor which was malty, somewhat sweet, with a nice
mild estery character.  In the second sip you began to notice a slight
warming which actually complimented the spicy hop flavor of the beer.  I
was able to finish the entire pint without my face turning red and
breaking out in a sweat.  It certainly wasn't a session beer, but I did
have it on more than one visit to the pub.

I think the point is (and -S tries to make this point) that balance is
key.  If done excessively chili beer is terrible.  If done with
consideration and balance, it can make a great beer.  It's similar to
the comments regarding Cascade hops.  When used with thought and care,
Cascade is a fine American signature hop.  But when heavy hands use too
much it's not fun anymore.


And that's *my* opinion.

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:19:23 -0400
From: Alan Meeker <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: visible and UV light

UV light is not the same as blue-violet light. The UV region of the spectrum
lies in a region of shorter wavelength than violet light, and is invisible
to the human eye.

Approx. wavelengths (in nanometers) for light and colors where visible:

300-400 UV (invisible)
400-430 violet
430-500 blue
500-560 green
560-620 yellow-orange
620-700 orange-red
750-900 near infra-red (invisible)

 -Alan




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:50:21 -0500
From: Bev Blackwood II <bdb2 at bdb2.com>
Subject: Herb/Spice & Veggies in beer...

I've been following this thread with some interest, since I regularly 
brew a Jalapeno Wee Heavy and win with it consistently in the category.

I'd say that your beer can have whatever you *want* in it.  Two people 
are quite outspoken in their opinion that the flavors just don't belong 
together... I'd assert that when done properly, the flavors can make a 
very persuasive argument, much like the smoked beers and fruit beers 
do.  Are there any commercial examples that are successful at this?  I 
have yet to find one, but homebrewed examples that do so successfully 
are numerous.  As far as whether peppers are a one-dimensional flavor, 
I agree that it's distinctive, but there's an opportunity to go beyond 
just the "burn" and successfully marry a richly flavored beer with a 
distinctive element that compliments it rather than dominates it.  I 
had a smoked habanero beer once that was 3 beers from Best of Show at 
Dixie Cup... It was wonderfully complex, with rich malt,  a tinge of 
smoke and a lingering spicy burn that snuck up on you.

I think it's interesting to note that one of the most richly flavored 
barleywines I have ever tried was brewed from a very old (I want to say 
1600's) English recipe.  It included peas and carrots as a part of the 
mash!

Experimentation is vital to the growth and health of the hobby.  Our 
competition, the Dixie Cup, annually celebrates the experimental by 
offering a bizarre category designed to get people "outside the box."  
Past efforts have included Breakfast cereal beer, Malt Liquor, Most 
bitter beer (115 IBU's!), Big & Stupid (24 Carrot I.P.A. anyone?), The 
Beer that Burns Twice (High gravity hot pepper beers) and the Monster 
Mash (beer made with candy).

But what I find most disturbing about the debate is the vehemence with 
which the anti-pepper folks attack the style.  Live and let live, 
guys... it's just beer and nobody's forcing you to drink it! :-)

 -BDB2

Bev D. Blackwood II
Brewsletter Editor
The Foam Rangers
http://www.foamrangers.com



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Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:59:34 -0400
From: "Tom White" <twhite at dminsite.com>
Subject: Beer Fuel

Several weeks ago there were posts about creating beer as fuel.  Here's
an article about a company that's making the dream a reality.  Beer
makes the world go 'round.

http://www.hcdoes.org/sw/interchange_news.htm#Beer%20+%20Paper%20=%20Fuel




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:04:58 -0400
From: James Keller <kellerj at kenyon.edu>
Subject: UV versus Blue light in skunking

Guy from Los Gatos, CA asks:
>I thought UV light caused skunking, but someone said that
>it's the blue-violet region ... Could someone please shed
>some light on the subject and/or point me to some good sources?

I do not always fully appreciate the listing of obscure, dated
references in HBD; however a recent article is enlightening for those
with access to the current literature:

"Mechanism for Formation of the Lightstruck Flavor in Beer," in
Chemistry--A European Journal (volume 7, pp 4553-4561, November 2001)
by Malcolm Forbes and coworkers at UNC-Chapel Hill.

His research group followed the photodegradation of isohumulones to
form 3-methyl-2-butene-1-thiol following excitation at 308 nm
(ultraviolet region).  Better still, Malcolm is an old graduate school
buddy of mine who always did know how to enjoy a fine pint. At the
conclusion of this study, he swore off Corona.

In Malcolm's words ...
"Although the iso-alfa-acids do not absorb in the visible region, the
thiol can be formed by exposure to visible light, most probably due to
sensitization by compounds such as riboflavin."  The sensitization of
isohumulones is still under investigation.

So the answer is ... yes.  UV light does cause the formation of "skunky
thiol," but so can light in the low-wavelength end of the visible
spectrum (400-750nm). Apparently, a plastic bottle (UV blocking) will
not save you from skunking your beer.  OTOH, it has been reported
numerous times in HBD that cold, dark storage of lightstruck beer will
usually result in the gradual fading of the skunky-flavor.

 -J. Keller
Mount Vernon, OH
[148.4, 151.5]Rennerian



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Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:08:42 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Cascade hops popularity

Brewers

nice discussion about Cascade hops and hop varieties and hopping in 
general.  There were a few replies sent directly to me that I've 
posted below for the record.  Thanks to all who have responded.

>I don't use them at all. I've had some great west coast
>micro brews that were 100% cascade..... I like the
>following. Cluster,Sazz,Sterling,Sanitium,Perle....
>I think cluster can are great in a blend....Other hops
>that I haven't tried that interest me...Sunbeam,Magnum...
>
>When cascade first appeared on the home brew market
>I used them...There was not much of selection then.


>The Classic American Pale Ale hop.  Love 'em.  You can keep the 
>Chinook, though.
>
>Actually, I'll bet the BJCP guidelines include cascade as an 
>indentifiable (required) signature in an American Pale Ale or Amber 
>Ale.
>
>That being said, it would seem odd to say that craft brewing public 
>didn't like them since it seems it's the craft brewing public (home 
>and commercial) that keep the BJCP guidelines going.


>I'll bite on this one.
>
>In the early/mid 90s there was a microbrewery boom in Northern 
>Arizona, where I was going to college.  We went from no 
>microbreweries the three in just a matter of a couple years.  At 
>first I loved it.  It was nice to have an alternative to all the 
>crappy megaswill.  However, I soon came to loath it, because most of 
>the microbrewed beers had eactly the same flavor (particularly the 
>pale ales).  I would drink British, German, or Belgian beers and 
>they were so different -- so good -- compared to the microbreweries' 
>beer.
>
>Soon thereafter, I started homebrewing and I realized the American 
>microbrewery taste I came to dislike was all associated with cascade 
>hops.  I thought it is way overused.  The funny thing is that until 
>your post, I thought I was the only person that felt that way.
>
>Now that time has passed and I understand beer much better, I can 
>appreciate it for being part of the American pale ale style.  I 
>don't loath it like I once did.  But, given the choice, I still 
>don't use cascade hops that often.


>My posts to the HBD always get bounced back so I have e-mailed you 
>directly. (I have heard other aol users complain of the same thing.)
>
>I don't care for Cascade hops...and I'm an American...born and 
>raised in the Midwest--mostly.  It used to be I really didn't like 
>them.  I have become a little more accustomed to their flavor and 
>aroma and dislike them a little less then I use to.  After all they 
>are in beer and I will find a way to drink it.  Perhaps they will 
>grow on me and I may actually use some in a pale ale...but never in 
>a brown or amber.
>
>I, like you, thought most American home/craft/brewers liked cascades.


Jeff


- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:44:37 -0700
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: Smoothies...and UV Light

I wasn't going to comment on the vegetable beer/blender gourmet
thread--really!  But then Tom White replied to the Steak and Potato Cabernet
Smoothie: 

> Putting chilis or jalpenos (sic) into beer is to me about as sensible 
> as running a grilled steak, a baked potato w/ sour cream and a glass 
> of cabernet together in a blender and calling it dinner. It's an 
> offensively bad idea.

"Steak and Potato Smoothie!!!  That's a great idea!  Thanks.  Though, I
think I'll add green beans."

So I find myself remembering a time in the Navy... My friend, John, was on a
liquid diet because his  jaw was wired shut after he broke it. He got so
desparate for pizza, that he popped a combo in a blender...and he had to use
some beer to get it liquid enough.  Said John: "Mrrmmphhp, Thrt wrph
ggrddf", which I think meant, Mmmm....That was good!

Then, Guy, in Los Gatos asked about UV v. Blue-Violet light 

"I thought UV light caused skunking, but someone said
that it's the blue-violet region that causes this, and
it's NOT the UV frequency that causes skunking. Is
blue-violet not considered UV?"

I can't really speak to the specific wavelength of light that causes
skunking, but I suspect it's probably a specific wavelength, or wavelengths,
that cause it.  For example, in ultra-pure water systems, you use 254nm UV
light to kill the bacteria.  Then you use 185nm UV light to oxidize the dead
particles so that they can be removed by your mixed bed ion exchanger.  The
wavelengths required for these purposes are pretty narrow bands--there's not
a lot of difference between 185nm and 254nm...

So, I suspect that when they say "blue-violet" light, it's because most
light sources that produce it will include the wavelengths that initiate the
reaction.  Fluourescent lights have a broad blue-violet spectrum, but
incandescent not so much.  I'd be very surprised to hear that skunking
wouldn't occur by any wavelength in the UV spectrum, but then it probably
doesn't matter so much. If you're getting UV light, you're also getting at
least SOME light outside that range (and vice versa).  Not very many light
sources have such a narrow spectral width as to be consider truly
monochromatic.

Regards,
Mike Sharp

Kent, WA






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Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:30:11 -0400
From: "Rogers, Mike" <mike.rogers at eds.com>
Subject: Frankenmuth World Expo of Beers

Everyone,

This weekend is the 8th Annual World Expo of Beers in Frankenmuth, Michigan.
50 Breweries (many of Michigan's, Great Lakes Brewery from Cleveland, and
other world breweries) will represent their product on Friday and Saturday
(May 16-17) from 4-10 pm under the open tents in Heritage park.  A great
Blues band will be there both days as well as food, cigar and brew supply
vendors also all with their own booths.  The Cass River Homebrewers will be
brewing all-grain and extract brews for fun and to attract more homebrewers
to the club.  Please come join us!  We will also have some fresh brews for
our fellow homebrewers to sample.

Hope to see you there,
Mike.

Mike Rogers
Cass River Homebrewers
Mid-Michigan
www.hbd.org/cassriverhomebrewers/ <www.hbd.org/cassriverhomebrewers/> 
mailto:mike01.rogers at yahoo.com <mailto:mike01.rogers at yahoo.com> 



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Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:38:48 -0700 (MST)
From: Walter J Doherty <wjd at U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: UV vs. violet-blue light and "skunky" beer

Guy in Los Gatos, CA was wondering about the "skunking" reaction from
exposing beer to UV light versus violet-blue light.  The answer is that
BOTH forms of light cause the skunking reaction in beer.

UV light is higher energy, and will actually break bonds in hop oils.
Recombination of the pieces with sulfur-containing molecules gives the
"skunky" product.  However, regular glass is a very effective blocking
filter for UV light.

The problem for us is a sensitization of the hop oil by Vitamin B
complexes (which are prevalent in beer).  What I mean is that the vitamin
B will bind to certain hop oils - how strongly, I'm not sure - but this
binding rearranges the molecule making it relatively easier to break bonds
in the hop oils.  Since these are now easier to break, it can be done with
a lower-energy form of light - specifically the violet-blue region of the
spectrum.

Bottling in brown bottles, really helps, since the amber color filters out
violet and blue wavelengths.  Green is OK, but it still allows green light
to pass through it, and this reaction can also happen in the blue-green
region.  Clear glass bottles will block UV, as will all the others, but
all other forms of visible light go right through.

Hope this helps your understanding.

Cheers,
Wally Doherty
Tucson, AZ




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Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:40:16 -0500
From: Paul Edwards <pedwards at iquest.net>
Subject: Call for Judges - Indiana State Fair

We would like to invite you to judge at the Indiana State Fair Brewers
Cup on Saturday, July 12th.  In its fifth year, the Brewers Cup is a
well-organized event with the full backing of the Indiana State Fair. 
The Brewer's Cup is unique since it is really two competitions: a
brewpub/microbrewery division and a homebrew division.  The competition
wraps up around 3:30 p.m. with the Awards Reception, award and prize
distribution, a bountiful appetizer buffet and samples of the 2002 Best
of Show winners. 

We are in particular need of BJCP judges for the brewpub/microbrewery
division.  This event is registered with the BJCP and points will be
reported.  Judges are paid a stipend of $25.00 for judging two sessions.
There are a few "Beds for Judges" that will be available on a first
come, first serve basis either the night before or the night of the
event. 

Event Particulars:
When:            Saturday, July 12, 2003
Where:           Farm Bureau Building, Indiana State Fairgrounds 
Entries Due:    June 14-28th


Schedule of Events:     9-9:45 AM       Check in, bagels and coffee
                        9:45-10         Calibration Beer 
                        10-12           First Round Judging
                        12-12:45        Lunch provided
                        1-3             Second Round Judging
                        3:30-6:30       Awards Reception


Should you have questions or be interested in judging, please contact
the judge coordinator, Paul Edwards at pedwards at iquest.net or (317)
253-7821. Please let us know of your intention and commitment to judge
as soon as possible. 


Maps:                   

http://www.state.in.us/statefair/maps/index.html

Forms/Guidelines: 
      
http://www.state.in.us/statefair/fair/entry/open/Dept_118_-_Beer_Comp.pdf
http://www.state.in.us/statefair/fair/entry/open/Brewers_2003_Entry_Forms.pdf



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Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 21:07:22 +0000
From: "Melba F. Gutierrez" <mgutierrez84 at cswnet.com>
Subject: I need some help..

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Zm9udD48L3A+CQkNCgk8L2JvZHk+CQ0KIA0KIDwvaHRtbD4gDQoNCg==



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Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 15:21:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Arrogant Bastard

Ray Daniels provided the following:

>By the way, Arrogant Bastard Ale was #5 in our poll
>of Zymurgy readers on the Best Beers in America.  Be
>sure to check out the July-August issue for full poll
>results and TONS of clone recipes (both extract and
>all-grain)---it'll be out in late June.

Just in case there MIGHT be a digest reader who hasn't
tried it, I wanted to opine that Stone's Double
Bastard
is a MUCH more enjoyable brew, as it has a lot more
malt flavor going on, and better balance makes better
drinking, right?  Just my two cents worth.

Kent Fletcher
Brewing in So Cal






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