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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Lallemand Scholarship-Links ("Rob Moline")
  re: The future of Homebrewing ("Chad Stevens")
  Jethro's Best Mill ("Rob Moline")
  Kegging Carbonation Problem ("nils hedglin")
  Re: Mash Temp Measurement (Tim Cook)
  QDs (Alan McKay)
  Re: The future of Homebrewing ("Hanlon, Steve")
  Columbus, OH Brewpubs? (Travis Dahl KE4VYZ)
  Temperature measurement ("A.J. deLange")
  RE:  Mash Temp Measurement (Bill Tobler)
  re: Mash Temp Measurement (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
  RE: Future of homebrewing ("Pete Calinski")
  Re: Starch testing (Demonick)
  maltmill ("Dave Burley")
  Re: my previous post (Brian Lundeen)
  Stepping lightly and other inquiries ("Ben Rodman")
  Re: Long term future of Homebrewing (NO Spam)
  58,000 btu's ("Mark Kellums")
  RE: Food Grade Quick Disconnects ("Leonard, Phil")
  RE: Beer Heaven! ("Jeremy Lenzendorf")
  high alc, drugs, plambic (Jim Liddil)
  Party Pig carbonation ("Patricia Beckwith")
  re: Starch testing (Michael Owings)
  Fw: Brettanomyces/Dekkera ("Chad Stevens")


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Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:44:02 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: Lallemand Scholarship-Links

Folks,
	It has been pointed out to me that I might make more explicit the methods
for joining the AHA, (a required step) and getting the chance to go to "Beer
Heaven!" So here goes!

	You are invited to attend "Beer Heaven!"  The Siebel Institute!

	The Siebel Institute, the oldest and most revered brewing academy in the
U.S., is "Beer Heaven," especially for the winner of the Lallemand
Scholarship!
	The Scholarship sends one member of the American Homebrewer's Association
to Beer Heaven for a Concise Course, paying all course fees, and adding a
one
thousand dollar stipend for travel and accomodation to the benefit of the
winner. Even professional brewers have joined the AHA just to enter the
drawing! Talk about a prize!
	Home brewers can exponentially improve their skills, and professional
brewers can consolidate their expertise, but no matter the level of
competence one brings to this course....it all gets better after attending
the Siebel Institute!

	BUT, TIME IS RUNNING OUT.........

	Online entries will be accepted until June 6th....after that only attendees
 at  the NHC Chicago will have one final opportunity to enter the drawing.

	Bottom line, for a shot  at  the best brewing education one could
imagine..... at  no cost to you, now or ever...(except for your AHA/AOB
membership) send in your entries, or join the AHA to submit your entry into
the drawing!
	What's more, the winner will be announced on June 21st!  Within a month,
you could be planning to attend "Beer Heaven!"

	To join the AHA for your shot  at  "Beer Heaven," go to....
http://www.store.beertown.org/shopdisplaycategories.asp?id=6&cat=American+Ho
mebrewers+Assoc

	To enter the drawing, go to......
http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/scholarship.html

	Sorry, I thought all could be explained by my .sig line. But make no
mistake, this is a serious brewing education, and you with a better chance
of winning than any lottery you have ever played!!!

Cheers!
Rob Moline
AHA/AOB
Lallemand
Court Avenue Brewing Company

"Have You Been To Beer Heaven??"
Go to http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/scholarship.html for further
info!"
- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:01:29 -0700
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
Subject: re: The future of Homebrewing

To attempt to predict the future is folly.  That having been said...I'll
bite.

Marketing research suggests that consumers make purchases based on good
taste, good health, and convenience.  A product which possesses all three
characteristics is said to have achieved the "holy trinity."  There appears
to be an unabated appetite for convenience foods (which are good tasting and
good for you).  As time goes on, consumers will see shopping and cooking as
increasingly dull, low priority activities.

Note that I've been talking about consumers.  We are not consumers.  We are
homebrewers.

For any trend, there is a counter-trend.  While consumers are spending more
and more for faster, cheaper, easier food, more money was spent on kitchen
appliances over the last decade than at any other time in history.  But
again, conspicuous consumerism in the form of trophy kitchens is more an
indication of the symbolic significance food has taken on for many people.
As the notion of real people making real food becomes more and more scarce,
the symbolic significance of food preparation becomes increasingly valuable
taking on the quality of a ritualistic fetish.  The trophy kitchen being the
ritualistic object of this ritualistic fetish.  But this pathology is
antithetical to what drives us homebrewers.

We rail against the trend toward convenience in an entirely different
manner.  Taking process into our own hands, we control the product from
conception to consumption.  We read, we tinker, we play with grains and
adjuncts, and even grow and malt our own.  We culture our own yeast.  We
grow hops on the patio cover.  We don't perform these tasks because we are
control freaks.  Control freaks don't go out and talk to their favorite
cascade plant (not that I'd do something like that).

We are elitists.  At the same time the rest of the world is devolving to a
state at which Macaroni and Cheese is outside the culinary abilities of most
twenty-something's, we know how to make beer.  We control the elements, have
mastered the alchemy, possess the knowledge that other mere mortals don't
begin to aspire to.  We are gods!

And in the future, as the rest of the world is fretting over "how much
longer is it going to take" their "Home Meal Replacement" to be prepared at
the drive through cuisine emporium, an ever growing number of homebrewers
will peak, with great pride, at the pellicle that has been forming over the
last six months on the brew in the carboy in the downstairs shower....

We may not be able to see the future of homebrew with brilliant clarity, but
it is certainly a bright future we look forward to.

Chad Stevens
QUAFF
San Diego



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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 00:04:53 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: Jethro's Best Mill

			Jethro's Best Mill

>From: "Hofmann, Chris" <Chris.Hofmann at camtronics.com>
>Subject: best malt mill??
>Birthday is coming up and the wife has asked me what I want.
 ."Need a malt mill", I answered.
>."Which one?" she asked
>Chris Hofmann

	Has to be the Automatic, by the Automatic Company of Pender, Nebraska. They
sold the design to Lynne O'Connor of St. Pat's some time ago, and while I
have been told there have been some degradations in quality since, I simply
don't believe it.
	Why would one degrade excellence?

	It's a brilliant mill, adjustable, sturdy and consistent. Check out the St.
Pat's site for further info.....I also use an Automatic mill  at  Court Avenue
Brewing Company, but this one is a wee bit larger and has a 5 hp motor
driving it!

Cheers!
Gump

 "Have You Been To Beer Heaven??"
Go to http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/scholarship.html for further
info!"

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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 22:16:28 -0700
From: "nils hedglin" <nils0 at pacbell.net>
Subject: Kegging Carbonation Problem

Hi,
  I'm trying kegging for the 1st time & having some trouble with the 
carbonation.  After racking the wort into the keg, I attach the CO2 & 
set it to 20 psi.  I then leave it in the frig for about a week.  Both 
batches I've done this with have been all head when poured.  

The beer settles out after a few minutes, but it looks like Guinness 
with the fine bubbles cascading down the side of the glass while it 
does it.  Once it's done settling, it still has a big, thick, creamy 
head & very little carbonation.  

While pouring, I've tried leaving it at 20 psi & turning 
it down to 10 psi.  I get the same results as described got both 
settings.  If I completely releasing the pressure turn the gas off, 
I get a full glass of beer with little head, but still low carbonation.


I am using the 3/16" beer out line as suggested by St Pat's, but am 
only using about 8-10" of it if that makes a difference.  I also set 
the system up once with about 4' of 1/4" for the beer out & had the 
same result.  My gas in line is 1/4 " or maybe 3/8".  Any ideas or 
suggestions on what I should try?

Thanks,
Nils Hedglin



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Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 16:12:00 +1000
From: Tim Cook <Tim.Cook at Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: Mash Temp Measurement

On Tue, 2003-06-03 at 04:51, Shawn E Lupold, Ph.D wrote:
> How does everyone go about measuring their mash temps?

I just had this discussion with a couple of fellow brewers last night at
a homebrew club meeting.  I had been doing:

 - get strike water in HLT up to a few degrees above desired temp
 - put 2L boiling water into Mash tun to preheat it
 - wait until water in MT & HLT are at strike water temp
 - mix 1st half of water with 1st half of grains, repeat with 2nd halves
 - measure mash and be prepared to correct with boiling or cold water

This was the method used by my mentor, and we hit it on the nose first
time it was attempted with my equipment.  Since then, I have been under,
and had to correct while muttering and swearing...

So, last night fellow brewer Alex put me onto a different idea, which he
has documented at:

   http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/Articles_Other/AlexT_StrikeTemp.htm

The main idea is to put all the strike water into the mash tun, thereby
pre-heating it, then dump in all the grain when it drops to the desired
temperature.

The other main idea is how to calculate strike temp.  The basic
calculation is:

  Tstk = Trest x (Vstk + (SHmalt x Wmalt)) - (SHmalt x Wmalt x Tmalt)
         ------------------------------------------------------------
                                 Vstk
Where
    T, V, SH, W = Temperature, Volume, Specific Heat, Weight
    stk, rest, malt = strike water, first rest, grist

and it is known that

    SHmalt = 0.4
    SHstk = 1.0 (which is thereby left out of the equation)

Lastly, if you want to know specifically how I monitor the temperature,
I use an electronic thermometer with K-type thermocouples, and they seem
to work fine.  I have a picture at:

   http://timcook.members.easyspace.com/Brewery/tn/Thermometer.jpg.html

and yes, that 64.4C produced a less dextrinous beer than I wanted :-(

Regards,
Tim

Brewing in Melbourne (not the one in Florida), Victoria (not the one in
Canada) - hence the Metric units!!!



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Date: Tue,  3 Jun 2003 07:39:05 -0400
From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: QDs

Several guys in our club have these QDs
http://plastics.newageindustries.com/snpflxmn.asp
made from polysulfone.  They work well except that there are
crosshairs in the middle, and gunk (whole hops) can get trapped
on the crosshairs and clog the line.  Nobody has yet been brave
enough to cut out the crosshairs to see if all remains in order.

cheers,
 -Alan

- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
The Beer Site


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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:52:17 -0400
From: "Hanlon, Steve" <SHanlon at dnr.state.md.us>
Subject: Re: The future of Homebrewing

> What will Homebrewing be like in 2025, 2050, 2100?

i am new to homebrewing, but have been wanting to get going off and on
for nearly 7 years.  i have joined the local homebrew club.  as with
many clubs, there are the very active members and the not so active
members.  clubs used to be the source of information for many hobbies,
but now that the internet is here, the role of clubs has changed.

this will have a direct effect on the future of homebrewing.  there are
more and more "closet" brews since people can gleam information from a
variety of sources without ever leaving their command compound ;)

material prices will slowly rise with inflation forcing all but a select
few homebrew stores to close up the store fronts.  mailorder seems to be
the future of obtaining equipment and ingredients.  

in the next 22 years, there will be a change in the popular styles of
home brew - maybe the headaches of lagering will be overcome so many can
easily control temps.  that would open the hobby in new directions.  

in 2050, i will not be alive, but i'm certain people will be
homebrewing.  you can not stop a hobby that has been going strong sinc
ethe beginnings of recorded history.  the only things that have changed
are the ease of production and the invention of the refrigerator.

 -steve hanlon


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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:55:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Travis Dahl KE4VYZ <dahlt at umich.edu>
Subject: Columbus, OH Brewpubs?

I'm going to be In Columbus this Friday night through Saturday afternoon.
I'm not sure exactly what my schedule will be, but if I can, I'd like to
check out a local establishment or two.  Any recommendations?

I did try to check pubcrawler.com, but I just got an ugly error message
:(
     -Travis

[1.8, 98.3] Apparent Rennerian
Ann Arbor, MI




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Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:27:02 +0000
From: "A.J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Temperature measurement

Shawn solicited comments on temperature measurement. It is a bit tricky. 
Glass thermometers come in full imersion and partial imersion styles 
and, clearly, for accurate results they need to be imersed to the extent 
dictated by the type. The electronic thermometers do solve this problem 
as parts of the instrument other than the RTD (or thermister or 
thermocouple) don't respond to temperature (actually they do but the 
meter compensates for this if well designed). Of greater concern than 
the way the instrument reads temperature is the problem of getting 
uniform mash temperature. This is not easy. It requires that the dough 
in be very thorough and that mixing be continued throughout the mash 
process as heat will be lost through the walls and bottom of the mash 
tun and through the surface exposed to the air while the mash in the 
center retains it's heat. The fact that you are observing that it takes 
20 degress above target to hit target but that there is a reservoir 10 
degrees above target at the bottom of the tun suggests that mixing was 
not complete. It takes a lot of work to get it uniform. OTOH I have 
suspected from time to time that the hydration reactions may be 
exothermic but I've never tried to check this out. Should it turn out 
that this is indeed the case the answer is, again, continued and 
thorough mixing to spread this hypothetical heat uniformly.

It is not uncommon for brewers to report substantial non uniformity of 
temperature readings in the mash. You've got to try to beat this.

Another thing to consider  in calculating strike water temperatures is 
the thermal mass of the mash tun itself. It as well as the grain must be 
warmed up. Depending on the setup you way wish to pre-rinse the mash tun 
with strike (or even boiling) water before adding the grain and strike 
water. ProMash accepts data on mash tun thermal mass to help you make 
the strike water temperature calculation more accurately.

A.J.



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Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 08:06:47 -0500
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE:  Mash Temp Measurement

Yesterday, Shawn Lupold from Alexandria, VA stated he was getting
inconsistent results in measuring the temperature of his mash, then asked,

>Actually, I think it would be helpful if we have a few people discuss
>their methods for hitting their target temp and how and when they
>measure their mash temp?

Boy, there are a lot of variables here.  Grain temperature, outside
temperature, the temperature of the mash tun (Did you pre-heat it or not?)
How well you dough-in. How well is the mash tun insulated? Grist/water
ratio.  And sometimes the phase of the moon.  ;)  I learned a long time ago
that accurate temperature is very important, and went digital.  I have a
HERMS system, so I have a thermocouple in the mash and can move it around.
In the beginning of the mash, with a good dough-in, (I use a drill and paint
mixer) the mash is the same temp throughout.  During temp steps, it heats
from the top down.  Once the mash gets to temp, it evens out pretty well,
and I don't worry about it much. Before I insulated the mash tun, I had some
temperature problems, but they went away after insulating. Promash is a huge
help in hitting mash temperatures right on the nose.

I also have a digital thermometer with thermocouple to double check stuff
and check the temps of the wort in the fermenter.  I still have my old lab
grade glass thermometer that I could calibrate with, but I haven't.  I'll
make a note to do that.

<<I understand that these thermometers have a specific depth for measuring
<<liquids and that exposing more surface area may give you a false reading..

I've never heard that.  When I mashed in a cooler, I adjusted the
temperature in the beginning of the mash, closed the lid and just left it
for an hour.  I think if you don't mix your mash up well when you dough in,
you will get inconsistent readings at different levels of the mash.  Hitting
your mash temperature is just a matter of knowing your system and practice.
In my system, using a 1.3 qts/lb ratio, pre-heated insulated mash tun,
grains at 80 degrees, I hit 155 degrees F strike temp using 166 degree F
strike water.  Thank you Promash.  I used to be able to figure that out
before I used Promash, but not sure I remember how to now.  I'm getting
dumber the older I get!! (Well, I like to think just lazy.  I have a friend
who brews, and he won't use a computer.  I look at his planing notes, and
they make me dizzy.)

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:10:29 -0400 
From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
Subject: re: Mash Temp Measurement

Dr. Lupold asks: "How do we measure our mash temperatures?"

Kim and I use a 10 gallon Rubbermaid cooler with a screw 
on lid as a mash tun.  I use ProMash to calculate my strike 
water temp.  Prior to adding the strike water to the mash 
tun we preheat the cooler with hot water and then decant it.  
Our measuring devise is an old 50 series Fluke meter with 
a general purpose thermocouple probe.  This devise has 
been calibrated with boiling water.  Using the Fluke meter 
and probe we measure the temp of the strike water as it is 
being heated in the hot liquor tank.  When it gets to be 
about 2 degrees F over the desired strike temp, we start 
adding the desired amount of strike water to the mash tun.  
Normally there is a small temperature drop going from the 
HLT to the mash tun.
  
Then the  probe is transferred from the HLT to the 
mash tun to measure the strike water in the mash tun.  
When the strike water cools and is one degree F lower than 
the ProMash calculated temp, we start adding the crushed 
grain to the mash tun, stirring constantly until the mash is 
completely mixed and the temp is somewhat constant
throughout the mash tun.  The one degree F lower than the 
ProMash calculated temp has just worked really well for us 
and I don't see the need to change any of the ProMash 
settings to compensate for it.  

The probe is then inserted into the middle of the mash to a level 
that is approximately in the middle of the mash (the top end of 
the probe is just barely in the mash).  The cooler top is then 
tightened on the cooler with the probe remaining in the mash.  
The wire on the probe allows the cooler top to be tightened while 
the probe remains in the mash tun.  The Fluke meter is laid on 
top of the cooler top and we can monitor the mash temp from there.  

We have been using this method for over two years and 
are very pleased with the results.  The only change we have 
made is the general purpose probe.  Prior to using this probe 
we were using a thermocouple with only the wire and no probe.  
The probe seems to be slower getting to the final temp.  The 
wire only was much faster for some reason.  

We make the beer we drink!!
Bob Barrett
(2.8, 103.6)Rennerian
See everyone in Chicago in a few weeks!!!!


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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:14:57 -0400
From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net>
Subject: RE: Future of homebrewing

Brian Lundeen says "2050: The Beer Pill is the final death blow to brewing
of any sort."

I say, will it be called, "The Phil Pill"?????


Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY


***********************************************************
*My goal:
*      Go through life and never drink the same beer twice.
*     (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.)
***********************************************************



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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 06:25:44 -0700
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Re: Starch testing

From: Travis Dahl KE4VYZ <dahlt at umich.edu>
>What do people think of using the iodine test for starch conversion? 

The test works, but has "issues".

First is the color of the iodine solution itself.  If you use iodophor the
amber color is considerable and must be discounted. 

The iodine will ALWAYS react with some of the particulate material, so it
is important to perform the iodine test on liquid only.  Unfortunately, it
is extremely difficult to get a liquid sample that does not contain fine
particulates.  To correctly assess the test a 10x magnifier is very
helpful.  Look at the color of the liquid and ignore the color of any
particles.

Domenick Venezia
Venezia & Company, LLC
Maker of PrimeTab
(206) 782-1152  phone
(206) 782-6766  fax
Seattle, WA
demonick at zgi dot com
http://www.primetab.com



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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:47:11 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: maltmill

Brewsters:

Chuck Hofman asks for guidelines on a maltmill purchase.

Make sure your maltmill is a roller type and has an easily and reproducible,
adjustable gap.  The ability to motorize it in your case seems important. I
use an old drillmotor and a physical disconnect if it gets something it can't
mill ( like the odd piece of rubber , metal or whatever) in the malt.

I always mill twice. Once coarse and then small to simulate a four roll mill.
Makes for excellent sparging and high efficiency carb recovery. This is
actually much faster than a single fine milling.  You will likely find your
initial s.g. go up with your own mill as brewstores typically just mill large.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:52:10 -0500 
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: Re: my previous post

Yesterday I appeared to write:

 High
to their superior intelligence, the machines will solve once and for all the
problem of hot side aeration. 

That nonsensical sentence should have read:

High-end models will also include refrigerated dispensing equipment.
However, due to their superior intelligence, the machines will solve once
and for all the problem of hot side aeration.

I added in the hyphen this time in high-end. Does using the word "end" cause
some problems with the Digest?

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg


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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:23:24 -0600
From: "Ben Rodman" <brew-cat at earthlink.net>
Subject: Stepping lightly and other inquiries

 So I'm a false bottomer and moving up to a 1/2 bbl system with insulated
mash tun. Question for the pumpers out there... but first, I'm NOT trying
to resurrect the temperature-sensor placement thread!    :  ) 
    I'm largely an infusion-masher, doing the occasional multi-step, and
always mashing-out. I've always direct-fired my mash (after dough-in at 1st
rest) in the past with great success. Question is: with a pump and a FB,
why not gently direct fire the tun and recirculate to do steps? Granted the
toy-quotient goes down, and you don't get the cool RIMS/DIMS/HERMS
membership card, but are there serious drawbacks? It just seems so easy and
less worrisome.
    Next, what kinds of manifolds do folks like for sparging/mash
recirculating? With variable mash heights, what's easiest for sitting on
top there? I'm thinking of a multiply-notched upwards-facingTygon or vinyl
tube (tee with ring) or perhaps slotted copper ring attached to flexible
tubing so it'll just sit/float on top of the grainbed to reduce aeration
during recirculation. Any important caveats here? Any reason to not use
temp-rated flexible tubing for this? Just seems like copper might be more
difficult to pull apart to remove plugging grain bits if they get through,
which I'm suspecting they will at some point, and would be heavier and try
to sink into the mash without anchoring. 
    Any advice greatly appreciated as I turn up the volume in the fight
against McBeer. Cheers!
 
Ben Rodman
Brew-cat at earthlink.net


Ben Rodman






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Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:47:25 -0400
From: NO Spam <nospam at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Long term future of Homebrewing

Paul Mahoney Says:

>'The lcoal homebrew supply shop closed several years
>ago; now you have to drive 45min.-hour to get decent
>supplies, or purchase on the internet.

I am a homebrew shop owner myself, as many of you know.
I can attest for a fact that the homebrew market is DOWN
now.  The economy is down, people are insecure, and they
aren't spending money as a rule.  Couple that with the
AWFUL winter we had this year, and the money we all lost
to snow in the month of Feb alone, and you can see that
things are hard all around.

Internet competition is FIERCE, with companies like B3
who buy in bulk and undercut us all, then offer free
shipping, too.  Many local shops are losing tons of
sales to big internet companies, and this isn't going
to stop.

If the brewers don't support their local shops, the shops
don't make money, and yes, they end up going out of business.
The hot weather months are coming now - June, July, and
August which are the worst months for the homebrew shops,
because NOBODY BREWS.  The weather is too nice, everybody
goes outside or to the shore, etc.  This is when alot of
shops lose their shirt and go out of business.

Winemaking also now accounts for better than half the sales
at most shops.

>Over the past 5 years the quality and choice of good
>microbrews in the local grocery chain (Kroger) has
>expanded, so that now you can buy some excellent beers.
>That makes it more difficult to devote a day to brewing
>(laziness) when you can buy a 6 pack of Rogue or other
>fine choices.

For those of you don't live in backwards states like PA,
I guess this is true.  We never have been able to buy beer
in a supermarket.  I hear they have 3 supermarkets by the
And idiots will protest, religious people mostly.  I'm not
sure if PA will ever get out of the dark ages.

>The overwhelming majority of our club membership is male,
>and many of us are older (hopefully wiser).  I fear that
>our younger members will abandon brewing once career,
>children and other pursuits become more demanding or
>appealing.

I think this is true everywhere.  I can attest personally
that new children and family obligations are the number
ONE reason (with a bullet) why we lose brewers.  Alot of
guys already complain that they don't have the time to brew.
Add a new child and all that responsibility, and we never
see the guy again.  Plus, I hear alot of excuses from homebrew
club members who don't come out or attend events, even with
older children - soccer practice, games, picking the kids up,
etc.   The answer, obviously, is not to discourage people from
having children so they can brew, but to find out WHY these
people have such a hard time finding the time to brew.

>I believe that we as homebrewers may have peaked.

The industry probably peaked in the late 80's.  We're on a
definite decline now.

>It is a small, dedicated fraternity of people, but it
>is not easy to expand the base membership.   People
>brew, but quickly lose interest, once results are not
>as expected, and the time commitments become
>overwhelming. 

Again, comments above apply.  New kids are the #1 killer
of brewers, but increased job responsibilities are also
to blame, especially in the current depressed economy.
And people aren't spending money when they're worried
whether they're going to have a job tomorrow or not.

>This hobby is expensive and demanding.  The rewards
>are great, but often inconsistent  (I still make a
>batch that is not very good).  It is much easier to
>buy a decent microbrew from the local grocery chain.

Expenses can be cut by doing all grain instead of extract,
and making much of your own equipment, as many here have
done.  Everybody makes a bad batch occasionally, you just
hope it doesn't happen TOO often.

>In 2050 Pres. Chelsea Clinton's administration bans
>beer due to its adverse health effects, and by 2100 we
>will have beer tablets: just drop in water and it will
>any make style you want.

I've said for some time that I believe it is inevitable
that the govt will get involved with attacking alcohol
at some point.  Many of your lawmakers are on record as
being in favor of prohibition.  And they've laid some
great groundwork with the things they've done to
tobacco - letting the states sue, passing laws banning
smoking, even in outdoor establishment, making the
industry pay for anti-smoking ads, etc.  And any of
you who support what the govt has done to tobacco better
keep in mind that tomorrow it can be alcohol, coffee,
or anything else the govt says is "bad for you".

And right now, we should all be much more worried about
the possibility of President Hillary Clinton that the
possibility of president Chelsea Clinton!

Bill 



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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:51:11 -0500
From: "Mark Kellums" <infidel at springnet1.com>
Subject: 58,000 btu's 

Hello,
I'm going to discontinue using my two tiered brew stand and go back to the
single cooker. I've spotted a 58,000 btu fish fryer at Wally World sold
under the Zebco name manufactured by Charbroil for $29.00. My question is
whether or not 58,000 btu's would be adequate for boiling 5 or 10 gallons
batches?

Thanks very much.
Mark Kellums
Decatur Il.





"I would give absolutely nothing for the theory of Natural Selection, if it
requires miraculous additions at any one stage of descent....If I were
convinced that I required such additions to the theory of natural selection,
I would reject it as rubbish..."

Charles Darwin in letter to geologist Charles Lyell



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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:59:19 -0500
From: "Leonard, Phil" <Phil.Leonard at dsionline.com>
Subject: RE: Food Grade Quick Disconnects

Foster FST series or Parker BST series are what I use.  They are brass but 
they also have stainless if you want to spend the money.

Philip


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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:56:49 -0500
From: "Jeremy Lenzendorf" <jlenzendorf at progeng.com>
Subject: RE: Beer Heaven!

Brewers,
 
Just wanted to second Rob Moline's view that the Siebel Institute is
"Beer Heaven".  As last year's winner I thoroughly enjoyed myself for
the two weeks I spent at Siebel.  The library covers all subjects I
viewed as related to beer and many others that had a connection I didn't
realize until attending.  The staff is knowledgeable, personable and has
no problem spending hours after class in the alumni room enjoying brews
and helping students with problems they have encountered in class or
brewing at home or work.  If this year's class is anything like mine,
you'll enjoy spending time comparing notes and critiquing beers with
your fellow students.  Feel free to take some of your homebrew -- this
is one of the best opportunities to get great feedback on your homebrew
from brewers and staff!  And to top it all off, the new fascilities at
Goose Island will give you great opportunities for learning and
experimenting.
 
But, you can't win a trip to "Beer Heaven" unless you are a member of
the AHA.  So sign up now, time is running out!  And even if you don't
win, you get the great benefits of the AHA.  See
http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing/scholarship.html for more
information.  I'd also be happy to try and answer any questions about
the experience, just email me.

Jeremy Lenzendorf
West Bend, WI


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Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 13:06:26 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: high alc, drugs, plambic

As Marc sated you can make high alc beer.  Make a gallon of wort with
extract to 1.200.  Add some yeast nutrient (I am lucky to have 10 kilos)
and then put it in a 6 gallons bucket.  Add a few packages of dry yeast.
and run aeartion for a few hours. Let ferment, chill to drop yeast, bttole
with fresh yeast.

Dpending on the drugs they can effect perception as well as other bodily
systems.  Sometimes you can compensate, sometimes you can't.  The meds I
take are such that I can not compensate for the alterations in taste and
smell.  I quit judging.

plambic can be made with stuff from Wyeast.  Just don't depend on one
batch.  Make several and do blending.


Jim Liddil
North Haven, CT



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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 17:03:07 -0500
From: "Patricia Beckwith" <beckwith at gwtc.net>
Subject: Party Pig carbonation

Hello, I'm a newbie to HBD and really new to beer and homebrew.  When I was
much younger, in the dark ages, I tried "beer" (read "macroswill") and
didn't like it at all (PIBITH). I assumed all beer had the same bad
attributes until last January when I got introduced to some JW Dundee's
Honey Brown.  It wasn't bad, so, the search was on! I did some internet
research and have since tried plenty of fine brews.  "Maybe I could make
this stuff?", I asked.  My first try was not good - I did everything wrong!
I did save four bottles as some "Here's my first batch - it's awful"
samples, and the rest went down the drain.  Well, I just got my second try
(wheat beer), into a party pig last week.  It was my first time using a pig
and I messed up and put my corn sugar directly into the pig without first
boiling it in water.  Will it carbonate anyway? If yes, will it take longer?
Do I have an infection to look forward to?  I appreciate any feedback you
can throw my way.   This forum is awesome.  Thanks in advance.
(Haven't figured out coordinates, yet)
Patricia Beckwith




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Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 18:21:58 -0500
From: Michael Owings <mikey at swampgas.com>
Subject: re: Starch testing

> On another, more pertinent, note:  What do people think of using the
> iodine test for starch conversion?  (Drop a bit of iodine in a sample of
> mash.  If it turns black, there's starch present.)  Now, I read in (The
> Seven Barrel Brewery Handbook?) that it's a little more complicated than
> that, but the test doesn't seem to work too well for me.  Thoughts?

Personally, I haven't done a starch conversion test in years, and
really don't much see the point for homebrewers. Assuming you have an
accurate thermometer and doughed-in reasonably well, your mash WILL
convert given time. Of course YMMV...

====
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html


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Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 20:51:47 -0700
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
Subject: Fw: Brettanomyces/Dekkera

Not long ago I posted a question asking if genus Dekkera had replaced
Brettanomyces.  I received a couple of answers (thank you) but the
definitive response came in today.  I forward this for general consumption:
- ---------------------
> Dear Mr. Stevens,
>
> the names Brettanomyces and Dekkera exist in parallel: Dekkera is the name
> for the perfect state (forming ascospores), while Brettanomyces can be
used
> for the anamorphic state with vegetative propagation only.
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> Dr. Peter Hoffmann
> DSMZ - Deutsche Sammlung von Mikroorganismen und Zellkulturen
> Mascheroder Weg 1 B
> D-38124 Braunschweig
- ---------------------------
Had I been thinking I would have realized this was the case.
Anamorph/teleomorph relationships are common among little beasties such as
these.  A search for such relationships can be performed at:

 http://www.cbs.knaw.nl/databases/anateleo.html

Happy yeast hunting,

Chad Stevens
QUAFF
San Diego



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