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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Which Malt Mill??? (Donald Hellen)
  Food grade silicone sealant for weldless fittings ("Parker Dutro")
  RE: Columbus, OH Brewpubs? ("Christian M. Restifo")
  US Plastics Quick Disconnects ("Chuck Bernard")
  Re: The future of Homebrewing ("Edward D")
  Brewing in the future ? ("Braam Greyling")
  Re: Brians Views (Thomas Rohner)
  Future Of Homebrewing ("David Craft")
  Re: Future of Homebrewing (Travis Dahl KE4VYZ)
  Columbus, OH Brewpubs ("David Boice")
  Bottling Keg Beer ("Roy Lewis")
  re:Schmitz method (Michael Owings)
  Re: Party Pig carbonation (Jeff Renner)
  Why homebrew ; brewing with(out) toddlers ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Re: Long term future of homebrewing (NO Spam)
  Kegging Solutions ("Hedglin, Nils A")
  Re: Kegging Cabonation Problem (Brenden Portolese)
  re: starch testing ("-S")
  Beer mailing legislation ("Chad Stevens")
  pre-heating the tun (Michael Tollefson)
  Kids and Brewing (was RE:  The future of homebrewing) ("Blackneto")
  brewing with families, hobbies ("dave holt")
  hi alcohol brews ("dave holt")
  Fw: [HBDJ] humor (Alan Meeker)
  Future of beer ("Tom & Dana Karnowski")
  Commander SAAZ Interplanetary Homebrew Blastoff 2003!! ("Glenn Exline")


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Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 19:33:09 -0400
From: Donald Hellen <donhellen at horizonview.net>
Subject: Which Malt Mill???

Chris Hofman asked about which malt mill his wife might buy
him . . .

Well, Chris, I can tell you about the one I have. I have a
Valley Mill. It has a rather large hopper (holds about 6
lbs. of grain, I would guess) and mills it rather quickly.
It is adjustable, so you can make adjustments if you feel
you must (many feel this is not a necessity).

I was looking at the JSP Malt Mill also and was impressed by
the lifetime warranty. I bought the Valley mill because I
got it at a good price on eBay, not because I thought it was
better than the JSP mill (though I think it's a tad bit
better, except for the guarantee--my opinion here, but I
haven't had both to try side by side). Price was my major
consideration on the purchase. 

Since then, I've seen the Listermann mill at Dan's store and
am impressed both at the guarantee and how it crushes grain.
It doesn't look like it would work as fast as one with
really wide rollers like the Valley or JSP mills, but it's a
lot less expensive, and it does a good crush. The cheaper
Phil's Mill, I'm told, actually does a better crush than the
more expensive one sold by Listermann, but slower.

All of these can be motorized or connected to a hand drill.
I use a 12V drill to do the work my arms would otherwise to.
If you have a lot of grain, you might want to use an
electric (AC not DC) drill instead. 

Also, you would be quite happy with any of these mills.

There are others out there, but these are the only ones I've
seen or looked into. 

I should mention that I've made some really good beers with
a Corona grain mill. It's made for turning grain into flour,
but the plates can be adjusted for an acceptable crush for
brewing purposes. You won't get as good a crush as with a
mill made for brewing grains, but it worked well for me for
about 10 years. I can't say I make beers that are much
better now than I did when I had the Corona, but it's a lot
less of a mess (I didn't have the cover that fits over the
plates to direct the grains downward and had to fashion
something out of aluminum foil) and it's a lot faster now
with the Valley Mill.

Donald Hellen



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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:03:11 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <pacman at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: Food grade silicone sealant for weldless fittings

Greetings.
I was a member of the forum a year ago, before finances and schedules
got in the way of brewing.  It's summer again, and I am ready to pick up
where I left off, with some new equipment.  I have a Weld-b-gone and
some thermometer fittings for my stainless kettles.  I remember reading
a post long ago by a brewer who used some silicone sealant on his
weld-less fittings which was supposed to be food grade and safe up to
450 degrees or somewhere near it.  Wondering if anyone knows of this
product or has other suggestions for water tight seals?

Parker Dutro
Portland, OR





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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 21:35:16 -0400
From: "Christian M. Restifo" <zymurgy at sgi.net>
Subject: RE: Columbus, OH Brewpubs?

>I'm going to be In Columbus this Friday night through Saturday afternoon.
>I'm not sure exactly what my schedule will be, but if I can, I'd like to
>check out a local establishment or two.  Any recommendations?

Immediately south of I-70 you can find the "Brewery District." Columbus
Brewing Company is there, but it's a bit hard to find if you're just
wandering around.

Their pale ale is pretty good. Last time I was there travelling through on
business, I believe they had an IPA as a seasonal beer. It was really good.
Their light ale is decent, too. It's a little more hoppy than most
"introductory" craft brewed ale. They have a peach beer which I didn't care
too much for, though. Way too much fruit flavor, but some people like that.
They have a sampler with 7 beers (3 oz each) for about 5 bucks.

It seems like a trendy place, and it got packed on a Thursday night. The
food's pretty decent. I had a baked samon dish with sauteed vegetables.
Pretty good for the price.

There are also other places in the district. I didn't have time to check out
all that was there, but maybe some other readers can chime in on what's
around there. I travel through Columbus on business about once a month, and
I usually hit it around dinner time. I, too, would like to know of a few
more places.

Chris

Actual words from a waitress in Pittsburgh: We're out of Chimay, but we've
got Boddington's. It's just like Chimay...



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Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:02:52 -0400
From: "Chuck Bernard" <bernardch at mindspring.com>
Subject: US Plastics Quick Disconnects

Alan McKay writes. . .
>Several guys in our club have these QDs
>http://plastics.newageindustries.com/snpflxmn.asp
made from polysulfone.  They work well except that there are
crosshairs in the middle, and gunk (whole hops) can get trapped
on the crosshairs and clog the line.  Nobody has yet been brave
enough to cut out the crosshairs to see if all remains in order.


Those look like the same fittings sold by US Plastics.  They are
manufactured by Colder Products Company (www.colder.com) and have "CPC"
molded on the "push to disconnect" button.  These QDs are "standard
equipment" in my system.  I've successfully eliminated the crosses in both
the bodies and the inserts.  I began by using a needle file (extremely
slow), then progressed to a Dremel tool (not quite so slow, but requires a
steady hand; now I just chuck them up in the vise on the mill at work and
use a four flute end mill to remove the cross.  I've probably doen close to
a dozen of these without a problem.  Just make sure they're vertical and
don't chuck them up too tight because they will crack.

Chuck Bernard
Medina OH
[129. 128.5] Rennerian




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Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:45:36 +0800
From: "Edward D" <edwardd at dodo.com.au>
Subject: Re: The future of Homebrewing

The future of hombrewing in Australia.

Well it dosnt look good. With the prevelence of supermarket kits that
produse beer nearly as good as comercial beer (insipid swill that it is).
The way alcohole exise works in australia home brewing will continue for the
forseable future but it will continue to become mor dificult to obtain
ingredeance for more adventurus brews. There is already only one place in
Perth where I can get malted barly and then not always. There are a fiew
plases in the eastern states but shiping costs are comperable to the cost of
the gran itself and liquid yeasts can not be transported cold by anybody I
have aproched.

I beleve that the hoby in western Australia will be redused to kit beers
within 25 years.

Edward



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Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 09:06:00 +0200
From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azoteq.com>
Subject: Brewing in the future ?

Donald Hellen said:

>There would be a homebrew rebellion at some point, a sort of
>religious approach to doing lots of things by hand
>(including making homebrewed beer) like the aforementioned
>religious groups. No more packaged foods for these people,
>no more trips to McDonalds for morning coffee, no more
>commercial bottled beer or use of replicators.

Donald, expcept for the replicator I allready fall 100% into this 
category....   :-)

Cheers
Braam




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Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 11:28:40 +0200
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Brians Views

Hi Brian hi all

I don't think that the U.S. and Canadian somking laws make that much
sense.(Healthwise)
I don't know the exact figures, but a lot of human life is lost to
drunk driving. (I know it's forbidden, but it shure happens)
How many people die because of air-pollution and other enviromental
issues? I think more than by passively smoking.
You may not like the smoke of a cigarette or cigar besides you.
I dont like the car and truck fumes, especially while 
cycling up a hill.
So, what about the Kyoto protocol. Would be something to save a lot
of lives in the future.
And maybe even our beloved barley will be available in organic
quality.(Reinheitsgebot and such)

Greetings from Switzerland

Thomas



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Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:26:50 -0400
From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Future Of Homebrewing

As long as there are men, there will be men who want to drink beer, who
will want to drink cheaper beer, who want to do it themselves, who will
want to take hours doing it themselves, who continue to spend more money
making it "cheaper", who want to tell other men what they drink, how they
made it and how "cheap" it is to make, therefore I think the hobby is in
pretty good shape.  Unless of course there is some genetic mutation we
don't know about.........

Brewing on,

David Craft
Greensboro, NC



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Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:26:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Travis Dahl KE4VYZ <dahlt at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Future of Homebrewing

I just feel the need to supply my take on a couple of points here:
   A significant portion of the homebrewers I have met started when they
were in their early to mid-20s.  Some of them have continued off and on
for twenty or thirty years and some have said that they stopped right
around the time they had k*ds...
   BUT, almost all of the people that I have talked to say that they'd
like to try getting back into brewing!  I suspect the two biggest
potential recruiting ages for for active homebrewers are "just out of
college/military/etc." and "empty-nesters/teenage k*ds".
   Now, while I will admit that I don't have k*ds yet (and probably won't
for a couple more years at least), I also know that I don't spend my
entire brew day staring at my kettles.  Turn on the stove, set the timer,
come back in fifteen minutes kind of things.  Somehow my parents managed
to go from a one-room house when I was born to a 2000sq.ft. house when I
was twelve and did much of the work themselves or with the help of my
grandparents.  So, like everything else, it's a matter of priorities.  (I
really like the golf analogy here.)
   As for prohibition, based on the U.S.'s previous failure in this area,
if somehow it ever happened again (which I seriously doubt based on what a
failure it was last time around), there would be a HUGE boom
in...Homebrewing!  Yes folks, that's right, homebrew shops would become
"Health Food" stores overnight selling live cultured yeast and nutritous
malted barley as well as medicinal herbs such as hops.
   Incidentally, many of the prohibitionists (at least in the 19th
century) really only wanted to see hard liquor banned and thought that
beer was an acceptable, low alcohol drink!

Alright, enough rambling.  I need to head off to work so that I can afford
to by ingredients for my next batch.
     -Travis

[1.8, 98.3] Apparent Rennerian
Ann Arbor, MI




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Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:41:22 -0400
From: "David Boice" <daveboice at insight.rr.com>
Subject: Columbus, OH Brewpubs


Travis Dahl asks about Brewpubs in Columbus:

There are several worth trying. With the change in Ohio beer law last year,
allowing higher alcohol content beers, all the brewpubs have been trying
styles they couldn't before.

Barley's Ale house, just north of downtown on High St., is probably my
favorite. They also have a Smokehouse in Grandview. The food is great at
both locations. The Brewer, Scott Francis, told me once that he uses Wyeast
1986 in all of his beers, but he has been using the same yeast so long I
think it is quite different. His Imperial Stout is sweeter than most but
makes a wonderful dessert.

The Elevator is also on High St. north of downtown and is a little more
metropolitan (translate expensive). They brew some excellent beers, but not
all of them are brewed on site. 

Columbus Brewing Company is just south of downtown and is also a fairly
upscale restaurant (it's a Cameron Mitchell restaurant). Good American Pale
Ale.

Finally there is Gordon Biersch in the Arena District, but I wouldn't say
their beer compares to the others.

Have fun!

David Boice
Carroll Ohio





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Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 08:17:11 -0500
From: "Roy Lewis" <rlewis at hilcorp.com>
Subject: Bottling Keg Beer

I have not moved over to kegging my
beer since I like the portability 
of bottles.  If I were to keg my 
beer and the day of an event where 
I wanted to take a 6 pack of bottled
 beer, can I fill up some bottles all
 the way to the crown and cap them 
and have decently carbonated beer 
still after 10 hours or so. 
Anyone tried this?
Roy
=:-)



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Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 08:24:32 -0500
From: Michael Owings <mikey at swampgas.com>
Subject: re:Schmitz method

This was discussed in some detail less than a month ago. Go to
http://www.hbd.org select "Search" and use "Schmitz" as your search
term. Be sure to specify at least 25 return documents, or you won't
see anything recent (the search engine appears to return the earliest
matching documents first). Details were posted around the first week
of May of this year.
====
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html


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Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 10:06:00 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Party Pig carbonation

"Patricia Beckwith" <beckwith at gwtc.net> wrote

>I messed up and put my corn sugar directly into the pig without first
>boiling it in water.  Will it carbonate anyway? If yes, will it take longer?
>Do I have an infection to look forward to?

Welcome to a great hobby, Patricia.  Even though you've been stung 
with a bad first batch, don't worry.  While it's best to boil (or 
otherwise sanitize) everything that contacts your beer after the 
boil, it's not too likely to cause a problem.  People have been 
adding dry sugar to bottles for years, and a pig is no different. 
Your beer will carbonate fine and it shouldn't take any longer.

>(Haven't figured out coordinates, yet)

No problem, coordinates are just a bit of fun.  But it's always nice 
to let us know where you're from with an actual location.  You might 
find that there is another brewer nearby, or maybe a club.  It's a 
hobby that is even better with compatriots.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 10:11:05 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at umich.edu>
Subject: Why homebrew ; brewing with(out) toddlers

Why do I brew?  It's not just because I can (sometimes) make better beer 
than I can buy.  It's not because my beer is cheaper than I would pay 
for equal quality commercial beer.  It's because it satisfies a creative 
itch in me. For those who, like me, brew creatively, the "beer pill" and 
all-computerized setups that have been proposed for the future are just 
not interesting.  And that's why I think that for the "core" of 
homebrewers, brewing in 2050 will be very much the same as it is now.

On a related topic:  I actually started brewing all-grain when I had 
toddler twins.  How did I do it?  After they were in bed, mostly.  I 
would start brewing by heating the water during or just after dinner.  
Then I could mash-in around bedtime, and by the time I needed to pay 
more attention, the kids were asleep.  Sure it made for a short sleep, 
but the end result was better than what I got out of all those 
all-nighters in college. :-)

=Spencer



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Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:00:18 -0400
From: NO Spam <nospam at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Long term future of homebrewing


I agree with Dave Houseman, that for this hobby,
or any hobby to continue, you constantly need a
fresh turnover of new brewers.  I guess the 20+
year brewers are the exception rather than the
rule (I know there are a few here!)

As another writer said, I also am not criticizing
or did not mean to criticise anyone's "life choices".
I was simply stating facts from observation - children
generally stop guys from brewing.  And yes, I do not
have any children.  So thanks for the insight.  My
brothers and sisters all do, but I guess I don't
see them enough or spend much time with them.

Far as tobacco, I know I've been taught since I was
old enough to read that smoking is bad for you.
For the record, I don't smoke, except for an occasional
cigar.  But I think its also a value judgement and a
"life choice" if someone wants to.  I also think its
not my place to tell someone they can't.

And what does banning smoking in outdoor establishments,
making tobacco companies pay for anti-smoking ads,
allowing cancer patients and the states to sue the
tobacco companies in class action, gov't sanctioned
lawsuits, and imposing new taxes on tobacco every time
the state needs another dollar have to do with anything,
except that big govt is doing everything in their power
to kill these companies?

No, the govt hasn't outlawed or banned tobacco, but they
are sure doing everything in their power to make it absolutely
impossible for these companies to continue operation or make
any money at all.  And isn't that basically the same
thing?

I can easily see the govt using these same strategies (now
called LEGAL PRECENDENTS) against other industries, alcohol
being one.  Families of people killed in drunk driving accidents
can be allowed to sue the alcohol companies (or brewing industry?),
the states can sue to recover costs from cleaning up drunk driving
accidents, taxes on alcohol and beer can be raised and raised,
and hell, the govt van just ban drinking.  We tried that once,
remember, it was called prohibition, and it didn't work.  There
was more alcoholism in the US during prohibition than at any
other point in US history!  And it was also a huge outlet and
money making activity for organized crime.

Yes, I am firmly against what the govt has done to tobacco, and
not because I smoke or even because I think smoking is acceptable.
But because of what I KNOW it will lead to.  And I don't think
this is "laughable".  I think it IS laughable that people just
blindly accept whatever the govt says, as in this case.

Bill




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Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:10:54 -0700
From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com>
Subject: Kegging Solutions

Thanks A LOT for the kegging help.  I was overwhelmed by the responses.
I got another 15 in addition to the ones that came through the list.  
So what I learned was 1) WAY to high pressure for serving & 2) WAY to 
short beer line.  After reading all the suggestions, I tried again.  I 
purged the tank & line of all pressure.  Since I didn't have the time 
to set up a whole new beer out line, I just set the tank to 1 psi for 
now & poured a good, non-foam beer.  The carbonation still seemed low.  
I could feel it a little prickly on my tongue, but I hardly saw any 
bubbles raising from the bottom of the glass.  Once done pouring, I 
reset the tank to about 10 psi to keep what carbonation there was in 
there.

As to the 8 inches of beer line, the 1st time I set the keg up at a 
party, I used about 4 feet of beer out line.  But, it kept dropping on
the ground.  So, I came up with the (not so) brilliant idea of only
using 8 inches so it wouldn't be long enough to bend & would pretty much
just stick straight up from the keg.  

Jay Spies said "Since 3/16 inches tubing has 2.2 lbs of resistance per
foot, we need 13 psi divided by 2.2, or 5.9 feet."  Using that math, 8
inches of tubing would need ~1.5 psi to match the tubing's resistance.
Would this work for my idea of having a short beer line?  & in order for
this to work, I'd have to purge the tank 1st of the 10 psi I'm storing
it at, before setting it to 1.5 psi?

Thanks again for all the great help & suggestions.

Nils Hedglin
Sacramento, CA
[1978.7, 275.3] Apparent Rennerian

In Heaven there is no beer, that's why we drink it here,
And when we're gone from here, our friends will be drinking all the
beer.


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Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:33:08 -0700 
From: Brenden Portolese <brenden at votehere.net>
Subject: Re: Kegging Cabonation Problem



Many good replies to this so far, but will add this link.  I used this when
setting up my draft system and have never had a problem.
Note: Its at Angelfire, which means pop-up bonanza.. but worth the effort.
http://www.angelfire.com/ks2/beer/homekeg.html




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Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:34:53 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: re: starch testing

Travis asks ...,

>On another, more pertinent, note:  What do people think of using the
>iodine test for starch conversion?  (Drop a bit of iodine in a sample of
>mash.  If it turns black, there's starch present.)  Now, I read in (The
>Seven Barrel Brewery Handbook?) that it's a little more complicated than
>that, but the test doesn't seem to work too well for me.  Thoughts?

Iodine testing requires some experience to interpret and erroneous comments
like the above "black for starch" are part of the problem.

Iodine solutions has a yellow-reddish color alone, appears
mahogany-brown in contact with amylopectin(which is about
75% of malt starch) and ONLY appears blue-black in contact
with amylose (the other 25% of malt starch).  The coloration
(brown to blue-black) only occurs when the polysaccharides
have long enough 1-4 linked sections to trap at least pairs of
iodine molecules (around length 12-15 if I recall correctly).

Grist particulate discolors with iodine but this means nothing,  so it's
necessary that you collect only mash liquor and not grist particles.
Squeezing liquor from grist releases a lot of small particles - so DON'T.
Instead take a mostly liquid sample and allow most of the particles to
settle out for a minute before testing.

A negative iodine-starch test is sufficient to ensure that the wort-beer
will not produce a starch haze.    It does NOT necessarily mean the mash is
done.     You'll want to mash a highly attenuable IPA or Weizen wort far
beyond the  point where significant amounts of the huge dextrin molecules
are absent.

==

By the time a newbie learns how to "read" the color and ignore the
particulate and understand what the reading says about the starch-dextrin
position of the wort - he or she should be long past worrying about finding
starch in beer.

It's difficult to leave starch in wort unless you make a huge temperature or
time error in the rests.  One study showed no starch after a 80C(176F)
mash-in temp on PA malt, and only microscopic amounts with an 85C(185F)
mash-in.    If you overshoot your mash-in temp by 25F or 30F then you'll may
want worry about starch haze !

A more realistic  starch concern is when mashing with a low amounts of
enzymes.  Those 50% raw wheat mashes have low enzyme content and so
measuring the mash liquor starch may make sense.   Some experience under
these conditions should be sufficient too.    If I made a beer with 50% raw
wheat or corn I would want to use an iodine test.  If I did this 3 times a
year with similar malts and grain I'd soon learn enough to not need iodine
any longer.

With conventional all malt grists, only newbies are likely to make a mashing
error so serious that starch appears in the beer, but only experienced
brewers are likely to be able to interpret the iodine test results well
enough to understand what is happening.   Iodine testing has a place,
particularly when mashing adjunct, or very low diastatic power malt but it's
pointless otherwise.    Practice with and learn to use iodine testing, then
put that skill in your tool-bag and save it for those rare occasions when
it's needed.

 -S





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Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:39:03 -0700
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
Subject: Beer mailing legislation

The collective brew conscience:

18 USC 1716(f) states: "All spirituous, vinous, malted, fermented, or other
intoxicating liquors of any kind are nonmailable and shall not be deposited
in or carried through the mails."

United States Postal Service Publication 52 provides two caveats however:
"422.21 Products not categorized as intoxicating liquors: A product
containing an intoxicating liquor is mailable if it conforms to the
applicable requirements of the IRS and the Food and Drug Administration
(FDA) and if it is not a taxable alcoholic beverage, or poisonous or
flammable.  The following examples are mailable: a. Cold Remedies. b.
Cooking Wine.  c. Mouthwash."

"422.22 Exempt Mailings Between Federal and State Agencies: Intoxicating
liquor is exempt from the prohibition against mailing when it is sent
between employees of federal or state agencies who have an official use for
the liquor, such as for testing purposes.  This exemption is based on the
intent of the law to prevent liquor from being transported to prohibited
jurisdictions for consumption and to ensure that all proper tax revenues are
paid."

At issue is mailability of homebrew.  Homebrew for competition is neither
taxable nor being sent to prohibited jurisdictions.  In light of 422.22's
statement of the intent of the law, an administrative postal exemption for
homebrew for competition should be doable.  I've run the issue all the way
up to the office of the Assistant Post*master responsible for Publication 52
and while they agree it may be within there authority to administratively
grant an exemption, such exemption could be in conflict with 18 USC 1716(f).
Additionally, the Post*master's Office gains nothing for opening this
pandoras box of potential risk.  A codified solution seems most appropriate.

Does anyone have any connections with a Senator or Congressman who may be
willing to draft legislation exempting the mailing of homebrew for
competition?  Any better ideas?

I'll take replies directly: zuvaruvi at cox.net

Thanks,

Chad Stevens
QUAFF (Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity)
San Diego, CA



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Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:09:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Tollefson <mbtoll at yahoo.com>
Subject: pre-heating the tun

Darrell writes:  I guess that I wonder if this
pre-heating, even for cooler-tuns, is an 
extra step that can be avoided by heating your strike
water up more?

Your right on the money Darrell!  I use a cooler for
my mash/lauter tun and do not pre heat the tun.  All
you have to do is heat the liquor hot enough to
achieve you target temperature.  Just take into
account your grain temperature and the desired water
to grist ratio.  It may take a little practice to hit
it right on but when you figure it out you have
eliminate a step in your brew day.  I use a formula in
a customized spreadsheet, but I don't have access to
it right now.  If interested I can put it out there. 
I don't know it source, however.

Happy brewing!
Mike
Hainesville, IL
http://hbd.org/babble



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Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:37:38 -0500
From: "Blackneto" <beer at blackneto.com>
Subject: Kids and Brewing (was RE:  The future of homebrewing)

New brewer here.
I must be one of the lucky ones.
We have 4 kids under the age of 7. And I work a full time job while 
running a consulting business on the side.
I just started brewing and have done 5 grain and extract batches.
Got my system down to where I can bottle and brew in about 4 hours.
It will probably be a while before i can try AG though, time is tight 
but it's an interesting hobby and with a wife that doesn't mind it's no 
problem to schedule the time to do it.

I don't see myself giving it up anytime soon. I love the beers I've 
made and some friends enjoyed them as well.
So I think the future will be just like anything. Highs and Lows.

- -- 



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Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:00:22 -0700
From: "dave holt" <brewdave at hotmail.com>
Subject: brewing with families, hobbies

I didn't get married until about a year ago at the ripe old age of 41.  I 
became an instant father of 4 teenage children.  It was a rude awakening on 
the time demands of being a family man.  BUT, it was understood with my wife 
that certain things were untouchable.  Homebrewing was one of them.  She was 
actually amazed that women would make their husbands give up activities that 
they love.  The kids understand my passion for brewing and are supportive. 
Which leads to the hobby portion.

I am passionate about brewing. Having passion about something makes life 
interesting and for me, it might as well be beer and brewing.  I've heard 
this more than once from people I speak to about beer and brewing.  "Dave, 
it is more than a hobby for you, it is a lifestyle."


Dave Holt
Forest Lakes, AZ

"Homebrewing, it's more than hobby, it's a lifestyle."



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Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:15:06 -0700
From: "dave holt" <brewdave at hotmail.com>
Subject: hi alcohol brews

Little slow on responding to the high alcohol brew thread...

At least once a year I brew up what I call a kitchen clean out brew.  I brew
a high alcohol content beer to clear out remnants sacks of specialty grains
and hops.  It a stepped up version of my stout/porter recipe, maybe on the
order of a late 1800's porter in gravity according to Ray Daniel's
"Designing Great Beers".   Anyway, for 'style' definition, I tell those who
ask that it is a strong ale.

I keep the grist ratios the same but will start with a OG of 120 -130
depending on what % alcohol I want in the final beer.  Generally it will
finish around 020 - 030.  Bittering hops will change depending on what I am
trying to use up but I will keep the finishing hops relatively the same.
Calculated about 85 IBUs.  I use simple infusion mash, 150-152 F.

The yeast I use, White Labs Edinburgh or Wyeast 1728.  I usually pitch 2
tubes of White Labs.  I know I am underpitching, but until recently, I
haven't been able to do yeast starters.  (weekend home, travel distance)

Bottom line, is that I get a winter warmer that weighs in at 12-14 % abv
and it well balanced. It is a brew that gets requested often for me to
remake.  For me, I'm glad that it is enjoyed and that it gives me a means of
using up remnant grain and hops.  While it isn't the 20 % that has been
discussed in the thread, it doesn't take the amount of work mentioned in the
some of the posts, i.e. yeast feedings, etc.

To answer the argument, how do you know that it is balanced and doesn't
taste like sh-- at that alcohol percentage?  I've entered it numerous times
in competition in the Strong/Old Ale category.  Received high scores and
medalled each time.

My 20 yr old step-son would probably like me to up the alcohol percentage.
One of the reasons it has been changed from 12 to 14%.  It is time for 
another
clean out brew, I may try to push the limits on the next batch I brew.  My
mash/lauter tun will probably be the what limits what I can achieve.   I'll
report back my results.

My step-son and friends have affectionately named this beer "The
Murderlizer".

Great thing about a high gravity brew, is that you can make another beer
from the second runnings

Dave Holt



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Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 18:32:05 -0400
From: Alan Meeker <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: Fw: [HBDJ] humor

Found this message in my SPAM box. Looks like the University's SPAM detector
is working pretty well! NOt perfect though, many of Eric's messages still
get through...


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Fouch" <airrick147 at registerednurses.com>
To: <diejest at swampgas.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [HBDJ] humor


>
> As a reminder, four years ago, I weighed 230.
> I did Atkins (the diet), and got down to 195.
>
> I have done Atkins (the Dr.) on and off over the last three years, trying
to get below 195, but can't seem to break that barrier.
>
> At any rate, my weight has stabilized at 200 for the last three years.
Not much of that big "R" word Alum used.
>
> The last time I checked my cholesterol was about 8 years ago, and it was
at 150, with the majority being the good cholesterol.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alan Meeker <ameeker at mail.jhmi.edu>
> Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 08:06:24 -0400
> To: diejest at swampgas.com
> Subject: Re: [HBDJ] humor
>
> > First, as I've said before, you absolutely can lose weight on the Atkins
> > diet - no question. What got me going against Atkins were his bogus
claims
> > for why the diet works. It is simply another type of  lowered calorie
intake
> > diet. Two new studies have once again affirmed this fact.
> >
> > That the diet was so heavily laden with saturated fats, high in protein,
> > and, ideally, kept the dieter near a state of ketosis, seems potentially
> > dangerous. However, your results, and those of others, argue against
there
> > being adverse effects on blood lipid levels/profiles, at least in the
short
> > term. This also was seen in the recent short-term studies. Since weight
loss
> > of the magnitude you've experienced is itself associated with improved
blood
> > lipid profiles, one could argue that the improvement is due to that,
> > although with such a high proportion of calories coming from fats I'm
> > surprised that they look as good as they do.
> >
> > Are you planning on staying on the diet for the long term, or will you
shift
> > to a more varied diet now that you've lost the weight? Another criticism
of
> > the Atkins diet, and indeed EVERY diet known to man, is that the
recidivism
> > rate is very high - something like 90+%.
> >
> > If I had to guess, I'd say that if you stay with Atkins and maintain
your
> > current weight that your blood lipid levels will creep back up. Keep us
> > posted...
> >
> > -Alan
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ray Kruse" <rkruse at johngalt.biz>
> > To: <diejest at swampgas.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 5:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: [HBDJ] humor
> >
> >
> > > Alan Meeker wrote:
> > > > Yes, /you/ trying to look like a Ph.D. would indeed be pretty funny.
> > Playing
> > > > the moron comes much more naturally.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Speaking of morons, I've got some experimental results for you.
> > >
> > > But first, you have to have the rest of the story.
> > >
> > > I went for a complete physical last December, which included blood
work.
> > >   At the time, the only parameter out of kilter was Total Cholesterol,
> > > which was at 213.
> > >
> > > Linda (wife) was complaining about being overweight, so we both
decided
> > > to try to lose some weight.  She said that no diet, repeat NO DIET
(her
> > > emphasis), had ever worked for her and she knew that there was nothing
> > > that I could do to change that, but she'd suffer loudly and try.
> > >
> > > We began Atkins on 8 Feb.  Since then, we've both lost weight, often
in
> > > spite of her continued denial that the diet might be working.
> > >
> > > Having recently gotten within 10 pounds of my target, I decided to ask
> > > the doctor to rerun my blood lipid tests, since, as I told him, I'd
lost
> > > some weight and made some changes to my eating habits.  He agreed to
run
> > > the tests.
> > >
> > > I went into the office yesterday and we reviewed the results.  He said
> > > that the weight loss was good, that my BP was down, and that the
> > > cholesterol results across the board were improved.  He then went on
to
> > > explain how cholesterol got into the blood (some manufactured by the
> > > liver but most got there from the fatty foods that you ate), and that
my
> > > dietary changes were working.
> > >
> > > I said to him, "I really need to tell you that since I was in here
last,
> > > I've eaten 1/4 # of bacon or sausage and two eggs almost every morning
> > > for breakfast."  The shocked look on his face was priceless.  He's
> > > almost 80 years old and not easily surprised.  I told him that I'd
been
> > > eating salads and some non-starchy vegetables, with lots of cheese and
> > > meat and butter.  He said that there must have been something else to
> > > change in my lifestyle to get these results.  I said that I'd not been
> > > exercising any more or less that I did for the last 18 months, been
> > > consuming the same amount of alcohol, and getting the same amount of
> > sleep.
> > >
> > > He said that he'd have to rethink Atkins, as no one had ever presented
a
> > > case like this to him.  I may have won a convert, but I know I've
opened
> > > his eyes.
> > >
> > > The actual, clinical results are:
> > >
> > >                Before           After
> > >
> > > BP             120/80          115/80
> > > Tot. Chol       213             180
> > > Triglycerides    93              51
> > > HDL              65              96
> > > LDL             129              74
> > > Weight          206             172
> > >
> > > So, as a data point of one, it appears that Atkins produces as
claimed.
> > >   At least for me.
> > >
> > > Ray
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> Buff it up
> Buff it up
> Buff it up
> Buff it up
> Yeah- Thing's shiny NOW, baby!
>
> --
> __________________________________________________________
> Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
> http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
>



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Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:32:33 -0400
From: "Tom & Dana Karnowski" <karnowsk at esper.com>
Subject: Future of beer

THis isn't just about homebrewing but I saw this through beeradvocate.com
and thought it was interesting

http://barometer.orst.edu/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/06/03/3edc50dc350b7?in_ar
chive=1

Its an article about an Oregon State researcher's efforts to improve the
malting characteristics of barley through various genetic studies.

Tom Karnowski
Knoxville TN




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Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:27:06 -0400
From: "Glenn Exline" <gexline at cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Commander SAAZ Interplanetary Homebrew Blastoff 2003!!

What is the Commander SAAZ Interplanetary Homebrew Blastoff? It's an A.H.A.
Sanctioned homebrewed beer and mead competition sponsored by the Spacecoast
Associates for the Advancement of Zymurgy (SAAZ). Beers are judged in
accordance with BJCP rules and style guidelines. 

This year two Best of Show prizes will be awarded. One for Beers, and one
for Meads and Ciders. 

Further information on rules and entry guidelines can be found on the SAAZ
website (http://www.saaz.org). 

This year we have a NEW ELECTRONIC VERSION of the entry form. It lets you
fill out and print multiple entry forms, including bottle labels, and
mailing labels on your PC. No more filling in entry forms by hand!!

Please check it out, and good luck!

Webmaster at SAAZ.ORG



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---