---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Learning to (pub)crawl ("zemo")
  Re: homebrew consumption poll (davew)
  RE: burnt rubber smell -- yeast culture/I'll sniff yours if you ... ("-S")
  re: Newcastle ice cream/Oh no, not that again ("-S")
  Re: homebrew consumption poll ("-S")
  re: Beer-flavored_Ice_Cream (Jonathan Royce)
  consumption poll ("Hanlon, Steve")
  RE: Bourbon Barrels (Michael Hartsock)
  Re: Shipping Homebrew (Todd Goodman)
  Further info on style and ingredients question ("Chip Bulla")
  Spruce Beer / Beer Ice Cream ("Drew Avis")
  How much beer? ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Consumption Poll ("Peter Beauregard")
  RE: Berliner Weisse ("Doug Hurst")
  consumption (Marc Sedam)
  Re: Oh no, not that again (Larry Bristol)
  Brew Consumption (Michael Hartsock)
  Dave, I tip my hat... ("Troy A. Wilson")
  RE: a plethora of topics (Brian Lundeen)
  Re: Beer-flavored Ice Cream?  CHEERS! (Nathan J. Williams)
  RE: re: homebrew consumption poll (Teresa Knezek)
  Berliner Weisse Question (Richard Foote)
  RE: Wood flooring and other recycling ("Mike Sharp")
  Re: AHA Conference Attendance & Pub Crawl ("Chris Knight")
  homebrew consumption poll (Eric Jacobs)


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Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 21:29:16 -0500
From: "zemo" <zemo at ameritech.net>
Subject: Learning to (pub)crawl

[Forwarded from the man behind the curtain...]

To All Passed-over Pubcrawlers,

We on the Chicago AHA Conference Committee really are bummed that
we can't take all of the people arriving Wednesday with us on the pubcrawl.
The driving factor in limiting the number of people is the capacity of the
pubs
we are visiting, in particular, the Map Room.  This pub and its owners are
very dear to us in the Chicago Beer Society.  The number of people in
question could easily cause the Map Room to explode, not to mention really
piss off the city inspectors and fire department. [Postal inspectors, too
8^)>]

The Map Room is technically the last pub of the night.  We ask that people
whom are not "officially" on the pubcrawl visit there early or go to an
alternate
place. Those people on the pubcrawl will be given priority at the Map Room
while others could potentially be turned away if there are too many people.
It is very important that everyone does not descend upon the Map Room all
at once and we will attempt to organize the people so this does not happen.
Additionally, all full conference attendees will receive a copy of "The Beer
Enthusiast's Guide To Chicago," compliments of the 3 organizing clubs
(don't forget about Brewers of South Suburbia and Urban Knaves of Grain!),
to help identify the best bars Chicago has to offer.

Looking forward to a great conference!

jeff sparrow
2003 AHA conference chair


Martin wrote:
> You bet I'll be at the conference.  It was obvious almost a year ago that
> this was going to be a stellar event.
>
> One disappointing distraction is that the pub crawl is sold out.  I see
that
> the Chicago Beer Society (CBS) has put together a nice night that includes
> some food and transportation arrangements.  I assume that the food and
> return-trip bus capacity is what is limiting the number of people they can
> include in the event.
>
> The good thing is that their capacity limitation will not deter us.  Those
> interested in tagging along with the pub crawl should also meet near the
> conference registration desk at the hotel at 5 pm on Wednesday.  That's
also
> when the 'real' pub crawl meets.  Tag-alongs will have to make their own
> transportation arrangements (i.e. buy their own CTA pass), buy their own
> food, and buy their own beer.  It might be a little more expensive this
way,
> but what the heck, this is a vacation!
>
> I see that the one-day CTA passes are $5 and you can buy one at the
> Rosemont,
> O'Hare, or Midway CTA stations (or others).  I assume that the CBS has
> garnered some special food and beer deals with the various breweries and
> taverns.  We'll probably lose out on those, oh well!  I suppose you should
> remember to bring your shiny new Rock Bottom VIP card on this trip so that
> you can get a nice deal at that place.
>
> So, don't despair if you missed signing up for the pub crawl.  You can
still
> enjoy the night with your beer 'buds' (oops, I mean beer 'celebrators') on
> your own pub crawl.
>
> Less than a week to go!



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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 00:01:17 -0700
From: davew at gibraltar.com
Subject: Re: homebrew consumption poll

Well, first, I don't drink everyday.

Beer fills me up, so 1-3 on a weeknight, if I drink that night.  3-6 on
a weekend (usually savored over a period of many hours), if I drink that
day.  Now, when  there is a bottle of single malt Scotch on hand, all
bets are off.

Average over a month is something like 2.5-3.0 per day.  However I never
felt this was "too much" drinking because I am 6' 5" and 250 lbs (the
alcohol is more dilute in my body than a smaller person).  Also, I
recently came across this:

"Good News For Beer Drinkers"
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/08/13/earlyshow/health/main518587.shtml

On an unrelated note:

I am turning a 9' by 15' room, adjacent to and entered from my garage,
into a brewery.  I think I just found the flooring (if I can afford
it).  That Cooper's Oak, from Guiness, at Mountaion Lumber looks very
cool.  Thanks Andrew!  If anyone else has any interest, here is the link
:

http://www.mountainlumber.com/products/english_oak.shtml

By the way, I'm not trying to advertise for them but when they say
things like "patina created by years in hops and stout ale", I just get
a little weak in the knees.  It's a beer thing.

 -David Wilbur
[1634.4, 257.8] Apparent Rennerian -- Scottsdale, AZ


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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 04:33:00 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: RE: burnt rubber smell -- yeast culture/I'll sniff yours if you ...

It has to be that burning tire you dumped in the fermenter.

SERIOUSLY, autolysing yeast can give off all manner of sulphurous notes, but
they do NOT smell like burnt rubber.     I strongly suggest you find a bit
of rubber (not plastic) burn it and then smell the result for reference.  If
anyone has an honest counter-example I'd be very interested in smelling that
for reference.

Probably the best source of real rubber w/o all the plasticizers is an India
rubber eraser available an art store.  Common pink erasers are not real
rubber.

Sorry - but "burnt rubber" isn't a good description of autolysis aroma at
all.

 -S








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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:09:50 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: re: Newcastle ice cream/Oh no, not that again

Larry Bristol writes ....

>Less than 1% alcohol?  But greater than 0.0000%?!?
>
>Good grief.
>
>Just when you thought it was safe to think about using unusual ingredients
>in your beer again.

Actually the malt, toasted malt, and sweet caramel flavors in Newcastle-B
would be fine in ice cream.   The bitter principle, alcohol and some of the
other volatile fermentation byproducts would be far less welcomed.      My
hunch is that the ice cream addition is approximately unhopped caramelized
malt syrup and not  beer.  It doesn't sound bad.

>I do not want to hear even ONE MORE COMPLAINT about
>making chile beer!  :-)

Sorry - better PgDn now Larry !

I set about extracting flavor from green jalapenos by a method previously
noted.   Soak pepper bits in vodka for a few days, then add the pepper to
the fermenter.   In my case I added the bits to some Spaten lager instead of
the fermenter.  After 24hrs in the fridge the Spaten - in a small sealed
container acquired a lot of pepper aroma and flavor.

Well the vodka certainly eliminated most of the heat from the jalapeno, but
what remained was an odd thing.   A strong sweet flavor, a green flavor
similar to green bell pepper but with a lot of  green-bean in there too, and
finally a modest nutty/earthy  note!?!    Well I rather liked the nutty &
earthy  note when this lager+extract was added to other beers at a 1 to 2%
level,  and the sweetness could easily find a place in beer, but the green
chlorophyllic flavor was dominant and not beer-like at all IMO.      This
stuff seemed to have a somewhat suppressing effect on the maltiness of the
beers I added it to (Guinness, Abita Bock, Bass, Spaten).

I really disliked the hot-pepper extract additions made in a previous test
as these seem to me to substantially destroy some of the good parts of
typical beer flavors.   This 'heat-less' pepper extract addition was
absolutely superior, but I have trouble recommending it.   If some one could
remove the green bean flavor from these samples they might actually have
something worthwhile.   Still I think there are other ways to get better
purer nutty and sweet flavors if that's the goal.

 -S




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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:50:44 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: homebrew consumption poll

NO Spam writes ....,

>The studies that say beer and wine are good
>for you SPECIFY one glass per day.

For wine back in the "French Paradox" days the suggested range was spec'ed
at 0.5 to 2 glasses per day, tho' some reports placed the optimal amount
around 3-4 (6 oz) glasses of wine per day !!!   I'm not suggesting that
anyone drink more for a supposed health benefit (that's probably silly).

 -S




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 04:25:44 -0700
From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan at woodburybrewingco.com>
Subject: re: Beer-flavored_Ice_Cream

Larry at DoubleLuck.com quoted the following article:
"NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Homer Simpson, make room in your freezer.  The
world's first beer-flavored ice cream has arrived."

Of course, this is a great exageration on the part of CNN. (No big surprise 
there.) I've seen beer flavored ice cream for a long time, usually at places 
that make their own. Most recently, I was at a place in Lexington, MA that 
sells Guiness ice cream. It's really made with Guiness and tastes like a sweet 
version of the famous Irish stout. Not really my favorite (ice cream, that is), 
but only because I don't like beers that are sweet. As an artistic effort, I 
definitely recognize how well that ice cream was made.

Jonathan
Woodbury Brewing Co.
www.woodburybrewingco.com


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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 07:51:05 -0400
From: "Hanlon, Steve" <SHanlon at dnr.state.md.us>
Subject: consumption poll

i drink in waves.  it has something to do with the natural waiting
period of bottle conditioned brews and a bad batch of homebrew. if the
weather changes to a cool day, i'll brew up another batch to get me thru
august.  my wife does not drink beer and i have no friends to come over
and mooch the good stuff.  4 cases will last me 3 months.  

i think my slowed consumption since college and before has more to do
with starting a family and having responsibilities than anything.  now i
can relax at the end of a long day and really enjoy the tastes and
character of a beer.  maybe that is what becoming an adult is all about
 - slowing down and savoring the finer points.

 -steve hanlon 


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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 05:18:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Bourbon Barrels

A) Jack Daniels is not Bourbon.
B) Jack Daniels is, in my humble opinion, over-priced
C) For your money, Jim Beam is the way to go
D) If you want a cheaper bourbon that is still quite
good, Ancient Age is the way to go, at $16 a
half-gallon, it is real bourbon from the hills of
kentucky -E) While ancient age is not as smooth as
Beam, why age an already aged bourbon?  If you age
A.A. in the barrel, it will end up on par with the
finest bourbons around, bear in mind we are talking
about a period of years here!

mike

=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."



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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 08:31:31 -0400
From: Todd Goodman <tsg at bonedaddy.net>
Subject: Re: Shipping Homebrew

I think some people are jumping all over Jim and some other posters
without the facts.

The fact is that it is illegal to ship alcohol in via the USPS.  I
believe this is codified in federal law.  If it's simply in the
regulations then it may be slightly easier to change.  I applaud anyone
willing to work at changing this, though I think they'll have a long
uphill battle.  (While you're at it, ask them to allow all Federal
Firearms License holders to ship handguns via USPS and not just
dealers.)

There are many things that cannot be shipped via USPS (including some of
my other hobbies.)

This is usually for safety reasons and because of potential problems
should the packaging be compromised.

In addition, the USPS doesn't really deliver to individuals like the
common carriers do.  They deliver to an address.  Delivery of alcohol to
minors is certainly a violation of many state laws (and probably federal
law.)

Common carriers aren't restricted from delivery to states that don't
prohibit it.  They usually just don't do it for liability and hassle
reasons.  If they do, they usual require the "Adult signature required"
marking (which most drivers ignore it seems.)  It seems that they
generally require a commercial account to do this.

This is why most beer/wine of the month programs work.

Now, I wasn't going to bring this up since I don't think religious or
political discussions belong on the HBD, but I think the parallels
between firearms in the US, tobacco, and the future of homebrewing and
commercial alcohol production are on topic.

The progression of neo-prohibition of all of these industries by those
who think that only they should have the power to determine what responsible,
adult, and free US citizens can do is pretty clear.

First they begin massive ad campaigns with scientific sounding studies
to convince the public of the damage caused (check those studies
sometime if you can even find the references, often times the
individuals who ran the studies will disown the results at a later date
due to problems.)  This step includes introduction of "education" in the
public schools about the evils of tobacco/alcohol/firearms.

Next, instead of trying to criminally outlaw the activity, they'll attempt
to legislate it (with "common-sense" legislation) into oblivion with
so much beaureaucratic red tape that most people in the industry will
decide that it's too much of a hassle to continue.

Finally, they'll tax the industry to death and use civil penalties to
bankrupt any manufacturers/providers/suppliers.

Tobacco has pretty much reached the final stage where large judgements
have been levied against tobacco companies.  Many places that used to
carry tobacco products no longer do so due to negative PC image.

The firearm industry is pretty much tottering on the edge between the
second and third stages (luckily with most civil suits against
manufacturers dismissed or dropped due to lack of evidence.)

Make no mistake that the alcohol industry is following along these stages
too.

People need to protect *all* their liberties or we're going to lose them
all eventually.

Wow, I was originally going to include that only because I didn't want
anyone to think I was a government/USPS apologist.

If anyone wants to discuss the non-homebrewing aspects of the above,
please email me outside the digest.

Todd Goodman
[630.3, 84]


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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:11:12 -0400
From: "Chip Bulla" <chip_bulla at hotmail.com>
Subject: Further info on style and ingredients question

Thanks to all of those who responded to my question posted the other day on 
what style beer I had brewed.  I received a good number of responses via 
e-mail and was asked for further information on other ingredients used.  I 
would like to post the details of the recipe here for further consideration. 
  For those who responded via e-mail, sorry for the redundancy.  The details 
are:

 -  Steeped 1 lb. of 60 Lovibond Crystal malt in 1.5 gallons of 150 F water 
for 25 minutes.
 -  Removed specialty grains and added 6.6 lbs. of light malt syrup.  Added 
an additional 1 gallon of water to brewpot for approximately 2.5 gallons.
 -  Brought to boiling and added 2 oz. of Tettnanger pellets (5.2% AA) for 60 
minute boil.
 -  Added 1/2 oz. of Hallertauer pellets (3.5% AA) for 15 minute boil.
 -  Added 1/2 oz. of Tettnanger pellets (5.2% AA) for 5 minute boil.
 -  Cooled wort to 80 F and added to fermenter (approx. 1.9 gallons after 
boil).  Topped volume off to 5 gallons, aerated wort, and pitched Wyeast 
1728 Scottish Ale.
 -  Fermented in primary for 4 days at 70 - 72 F.
 -  Transferred to secondary for 8 days at 60 - 64 F.  Read FG at 1.010 
(1.011  at  60 F).
 -  Primed and bottled with 3/4 cup of corn suger and 2 cups water solution 
(boiled and cooled)
 -  Bottle conditioned at 72 F for 1 week and then 50 - 55 F for 2 weeks.

The recipe was fairly simplistic in design, but produced a good beer IMO.  
The beer had a medium body with a good caramel flavor, slight spiciness, and 
good hop aroma.  Based on the details above, it has been proposed that the 
beer could be considered either a Scottish Ale (BJCP #5c) or a North German 
Alt (BJCP #8c).  Just curious as to other impressions.

Good Brewing!

Chip Bulla
Apex NC
[525.8,147.7] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:23:15 -0400
From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com>
Subject: Spruce Beer / Beer Ice Cream

Mark Tumarkin mentions the BJCP's continued penchant for claiming more beer
styles as somehow "American", which is understandable seeing that the BJCP
is an American organization.  But I would caution against claiming spruce
beer as your own.  Spruce beers have been brewed on the British Isles for
centuries.  One historical reference that might interest you is from Jane
Austin's Emma, written in 1814-16:

`I do remember it,' cried Emma; `I perfectly remember it. - Talking about
spruce-beer. - Oh! yes - Mr. Knightley and I both saying we liked it, and
Mr. Elton's seeming resolved to learn to like it too. I perfectly remember
it.

Other "coniferous" beers have been brewed historically in Europe as well.
Some Scottish brewers have resurrected a pine and spruce beer they call Alba
(http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-000642.html), and the Finns have
brewed a juniper called Sahti for over 400 years
http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/styles/6_4style.html).  FYI, Alba,
along with Fraoch, Skullsplitter, and another Scottish beer I can't recall,
is often available in a "gift" 4 pack in Ontario LCBO stores, and perhaps
elsewhere in North America.

Though like all the other styles, I'm sure the BJCP will create an
"American" variant of spruce beer requiring corn, six-row, and excessive
amounts of spruce!

Regarding beer flavoured ice cream - this is a fabulous idea, and I hope the
product makes it to our shores in short order!  When I first got my ice
cream maker, I tried making just such a concoction - cream, eggs, DME, and
whole EKG hops, which I mostly fished out before I froze the stuff.  It was
unbearably awful.  I hope the Scottish Courage version is much better!

Cheers!
Drew Avis ~ Ottawa, Ontario
http://www.strangebrew.ca


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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:29:24 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at umich.edu>
Subject: How much beer?

Bill (no last name) asks

>And so this leads me to ask - How much beer or wine per
>day would someone have to consume to be considered an
>alcoholic?
>
The answer, as I currently understand it, is that it's not the quantity 
that matters, it's your body's reaction that counts.  My working 
definition of an alcoholic is "someone who cannot predict how much he or 
she will drink in a session" and "someone who has essentially no control 
over how much they drink."  Last summer I attended a lecture on the 
medical and genetic basis for addiction (including alcoholism).  The 
speaker, a doctor who specializes in acoholism and addiction treatment, 
put forth the proposition that there are 3 factors that "make" an 
alcoholic or addict.  These are:

   1. Genetic predisposition,
   2. Exposure,
   3. Time

There is very strong evidence for a genetic component that predisposes 
certain people to become alcoholics or addicts, just as some people are 
genetically predisposed to develop late-onset diabetes or heart 
disease.  But without environmental factors, these people will not 
actually become alcoholics.  That's where the other two factors come 
in.  Sufficient exposure to the addictive substance over a sufficient 
length of time will bring on the disease.  For some, who have a high 
'genetic load," it will happen very quickly, developing in the early 
teens.  For others, it can take 20 years to fully develop after they 
start drinking.  And for some lucky people, they can drink heavily all 
their lives without losing control over their drinking. (Which is not to 
say they might not suffer from other medical consequences of heavy 
drinking.)

The Alcoholics Anonymous web site has a quiz that you can take ("in the 
privacy of your own home") if you think you might be developing 
alcoholism.  You can find it at
http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/default/en_about_aa.cfm?pageid=4
If you answer "yes" to 4 or more questions, you may be "in trouble."

There should be no shame in being an alcoholic.  It is a disease and it 
is not your fault if you "catch" it.  But you can take responsibility 
for treating your disease if you have it.

=Spencer




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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:09:32 -0400
From: "Peter Beauregard" <peterb at autoprof.com>
Subject: Consumption Poll

I'm at 2 pints per day, average.  I've been recommending 
the following book to everyone I share homebrew with.  
It's called "Drink As Much As You Want and Live Longer: 
The Intelligent Person's Guide to Healthy Drinking" by 
Frederick M. Beyerlein.  Contrary to it's title, the 
book is not arguing for over-consumption.  It discusses 
the effects of alcohol on your body (positive and 
negative), and describes easy ways to modify your diet 
to mitigate the negative impact of alcohol.  Some of 
his nutrition tips have worked great for me, especially 
after waking up from a night of overindulgence...

Peter Beauregard
Stratham, NH


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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:06:03 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com>
Subject: RE: Berliner Weisse

Patrick asked about Grist in a Berliner Weisse.

I've got a Berliner Weisse in the secondary right now.  It was my first.
All the information I found suggested a 50/50 ratio of Pilsner malt to
Wheat malt and that is what I used. 

My sources were Ray Daniels' "Designing Great Beers", a Zymurgy article
from a little more than a year ago, private email with Marc Sedam (BW
Guru candidate), and the BW section of Eric Warner's 
"German Wheat Beer" book from the Classic Style Series.  

My recipe was something along the lines of:
3 lbs Pilsner Malt
3 lbs Wheat Malt
 .5oz Willamette ~5%AA  35min (not to style but it's what I had)

1qrt/lb infusion mash at ~120F for 20 min, infuse boiling water to bring
temp up to ~148F for one hour.  Sparge as usual.  Most sources indicated
that traditionally the boil was either short or non-existent.  I chose
to boil for ~35min.

Pitched Lactobacillus direct from package into primary waited four hours
then pitched 500ml starter of Wyeast 1007 German Ale yeast.  After start
of fermentation I cooled to 55F and kept it there through primary
fermentation.  Upon tasting the beer on transfer to secondary, I felt it
needed more sourness.  A Lacto starter culture might have helped, as
well as a longer wait before pitching the yeast and possibly a warmer
ferment.  The secondary is now sitting at room temperature in hopes the
Lacto will become more active.  I think it will need a good long aging.

Beyond Gravity and IBU specs, I feel the BJCP guideline for this style
has some errors.  Any BJCP people listening?  They state "...a mild
Brettanomyces yeast aroma may be present."  I'm not quite sure what that
means and none of my sources said anything about Brettanomyces.  I
suppose you could get Brettanomyces characteristics by doing a sour
mash.  The other statement "Wheat malt content is typically well under
50% of the grist..." must be a misprint.  Every source indicated a 50:50
ratio.

I'm hoping the sourness in my version goes up with some warmer temp
conditioning.  If not, I may add some lactic acid to help it along.
Perhaps I'll try a sour mash next time.  I feel, however, that adding
the Lactobacillus to the fermenter was a more controllable technique.


Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[215, 264.5] Apparent Rennerian
or
[24,683, 84.5] in the opposite direction




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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:17:43 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: consumption

Really good question.

I probably drink 1-2 pints a day.  And contrary to what Bill mentioned, 
most of the studies that discuss the benefits of moderate alcohol 
consumption discuss it in terms of 2-3 units per day being OK.  A unit 
is defined as a 12oz glass of beer, 1.5oz of hard liquor, or 4oz (I 
think) of wine.

The problem to me is the size of the glass.  A pint is the right amount 
to drink, but two of them leads you to the high end of the spectrum. 
 Studies also show that the "feast or famine" approach to drinking isn't 
healthy, meaning eight pints on Saturday and none during the rest of the 
week doesn't work.  Regular, moderate consumption is what works.

As for the beer styles, in the Southeast (in addition to sweet tea) we 
already have our style--whatever is packaged in a tall boy, consumed 
near a race track, and is below 6%abv.  Yee haw!

Er...kidding.

- -- 

Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC




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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:31:10 -0500
From: Larry Bristol <larry at doubleluck.com>
Subject: Re: Oh no, not that again

On Friday 13 June 2003 4:09 am, -S wrote:
> Larry Bristol writes ....
> >I do not want to hear even ONE MORE COMPLAINT about
> >making chile beer!  :-)
>
> Sorry - better PgDn now Larry !

Luckily, I read it in spite of your warning.  Frankly, I do not see any 
complaints in your analysis, Mr. Dash.   :-)

>...snip...
> I really disliked the hot-pepper extract additions made in a previous
> test as these seem to me to substantially destroy some of the good
> parts of typical beer flavors.   This 'heat-less' pepper extract
> addition was absolutely superior, but I have trouble recommending it.  
> If some one could remove the green bean flavor from these samples they
> might actually have something worthwhile.   Still I think there are
> other ways to get better purer nutty and sweet flavors if that's the
> goal.

Viola!   Do you (or anyone else for that matter) have a suggestion as to 
how one might go about removing that "green bean flavor"?  [I do not find 
that flavor particularly distressing, but agree that it is less than 
ideal.]

My personal belief is that this is a natural part of the flavor of the  
jalape{ny}a, and removing it (if possible) would most likely also remove 
those flavors that you appreciate.  It is quite possible, however, that 
this flavor comes from the skin of the chile, and that its removal might 
provide the key.

This occurs to me because it is common practice in the preparation of many 
chiles (such as my personal favorite, the pablano) to remove the skin.  
The easiest way to do this is to roast (more like "toast" actually) the 
chile briefly to make the skin blister, and it peals right off.  Toasting 
also has a tendancy to sweeten the chile.

Anyway, this is exactly what I plan to do for my next chile beer.  I 
suspect, however, that I will have to rename it from "Chingaquedito" to 
"Chingoneria" (accent over that trailing "i" <sigh>).

[It had to happen, right?  Yet another "chinga" word!  I'll give you a 
hint this time - a chingoneria is the opposite of a chingadera.  If you 
still need help, learn how to use www.google.com for cryin' out load.  
And for the google challenged who would like to know more about this 
fascinating bit of Mexican culture, check out:
	http://www.hut.fi/~hernande/chinga2_en.html
Ah, linguistics!]

Perhaps I will first try the Spaten lager idea as a test medium.  Or 
(better yet) some Dos Equis lager!  It just seems more appropriate 
somehow.  [But not Corona or Carta Blanca or Tecate or ...   The only way 
I know to rescue these is to mix with an equal part of haba{ny}ero juices 
so that the heat can "blend" with the flavor of those chingaderas!]

- -- 
Larry Bristol
The Double Luck
Bellville, TX
http://www.doubleluck.com



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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 07:46:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>
Subject: Brew Consumption

Is anyone compiling these statistics?  I wonder how
home brewer's consumption would compare to megabrew
consumption.  I know too many budlight drinkers who
pound a sixer a day or more.  

I'd be willing to say that even a sixer of homebrew a
day would be better than a sixer of macrobrew.

Besides, most homebrew is lower in alcohol than macro.
 A standard homebrew with 1.048 OG and 1.012 FG is
4.74 ABV, but only 3.7 ABW!!!  Bud light is 5% ABW, so
if your drinking homebrew, you'd best drink a few
extra pints to keep up with your macrobrew drinking
buddies, you might end up being the donor when their
liver goes, if something takes you first.

BTW, I drink about 2-3 12 oz homebrews on the weekdays
and about 4-6 on friday or saturday.  Depends on who
comes over.  They go down faster in good company.

mike

=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."



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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:23:11 -0500
From: "Troy A. Wilson" <troy at troyandjulia.com>
Subject: Dave, I tip my hat...

I also left out those of us who understand Hexadecimal, but who's
counting.
That's the first time somebody commented on my tag line with something
other than.. Huh? I don't get it.

Thank you for the laugh!

Troy A. Wilson
troy at troyandjulia.com

There are only 10 types of people in the world:
Those who understand binary and those who don't.

- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/2003
 



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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 12:07:30 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: a plethora of topics

So many things, so little time... Well, let's get started

Mark Tumarkin, commenting on someone's rubbery starter, writes:
> 
> I don't use this stuff myself, but I do know there are two 
> types (at least, maybe others?). One is DAP, diammonium 
> phosphate and the other is yeast hulls (dead yeast bodies). 
> The DAP is white & the yeast hulls are yellow. Since the beer 
> ended up fine, it's probably just that you smelled the 
> energizer. As I say, I don't use the stuff myself, but I 
> wouldn't expect the yeast hulls to be autolyzed, but I guess 
> it's certainly possible

I think it is entirely possible to get some off-aromas from using a poor
nutrient. I have seen these generic bags of "yeast energizer" and quite
frankly I would never use any nutrient without knowing who made it and what
went into it. I know some nutrients used to contain urea, which has been
implicated in increased ethyl carbamate levels, and while I hope all
manufacturers have switched over to DAP, I don't know that that is the case.

Another potentially bad product is yeast extract. The Wine Lab, who makes an
excellent product that I use called Superfood, cautions that many
manufacturers of yeast extract make it from spent yeast, which can
contribute off-flavours.

There are several quality nutrient manufacturers including the Wine Lab,
Scott Labs and Wyeast. Know what you are buying before dumping it in your
brew.

Jonathan Royce chides us thusly:
> 
> It is NOT, however, productive or constructive to 
> criticize the 
> employees who we as citizens employ for enforcing the laws 
> that we as citizens, 
> either directly or indirectly, are responsible for. 
> 

This is true, but one could also say that when some flunkie mechanic in a
post office somewhere comes in to a HOMEBREWING forum and starts getting all
uppity about the laws relating to shipping HOMEBREW through the mail, one
shouldn't be too surprised when a little flak gets sent back his way. Oh,
and by the way, when you made reference to "Lagavouland or Taliskar", you
did not have to inform us later on that you were not a Scotch drinker. We
already knew that. ;-)

On to some dis, dat and t'other stuff...

On Orval: I tried it, and given the layer of dust on the bottle, I suspect
it was not the freshest example available. It was... Interesting, to say the
least. It was not so "bloody Orval" that I couldn't drink the stuff. I
expect I would try it again, although I can't buy it here and I don't think
I want to special order a case in. Still, I don't see the fuss about it. It
is a radically different beer than anything else, and people should be able
to appreciate it for what it is. The only beers I have ever had that I
couldn't enjoy in some way, shape or form, were ones where something had
clearly gone wrong in the process. Typically, I only see this in homebrew,
although our defunct brew pub also had the ability to churn out some really
nasty swill. 

On consumption: 2 pints a day, or the equivalent in other drinks. Anything
over and above that is simply counted against days early in my life when no
alcohol was consumed. This is the same logic that has kept me at a
youthfully mature 39 for the past few years. ;-)

On regional US brews: Would it be fair to say that if the Belgians had not
come up with it first, that the southern portions of the States would likely
have come up with White Beer all on their own? (ooh, I know I'm gonna get
flames for that one)

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg


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Date: 13 Jun 2003 13:25:10 -0400
From: nathanw at MIT.EDU (Nathan J. Williams)
Subject: Re: Beer-flavored Ice Cream?  CHEERS!

"Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com> writes:

> NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Homer Simpson, make room in your freezer.  The
> world's first beer-flavored ice cream has arrived.

As usual, CNN hasn't done their homework. Toscanini's Ice Cream in
Cambridge, MA has been making Guinness-flavored ice cream for years.

        - Nathan



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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:08:40 -0800
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: RE: re: homebrew consumption poll

>>  So I ask:  How much homebrew do we swallow on
>>  an average day?  My answer would be 2 to 4 pints.

Yup. I'm about there. Of course there are days when I have none, and 
days when I have more (both rare... hehe.) If I have been lazy about 
my brewing, I'll substitute good microbrew. Current favorite is 
Deschutes Brewing's Cinder Cone Red. Hoppier than I'd usually go for, 
but after we finished the first 6 pack, it had grown on me.

NO Spam <nospam at brewbyyou.net>
>  And so this leads me to ask - How much beer or wine per
>  day would someone have to consume to be considered an
>  alcoholic?

IMO: An alcoholic does his/her best NOT to have days with no drinks. 
An alcoholic will drink crap beer/wine/liquor if it is the only thing 
available. An alcoholic's drinking interferes with their work, 
personal or financial dealings. An alcoholic may have physical 
trouble functioning 'normally' without alcohol. Alcoholics often lie 
or try to hide the extent of their drinking. Etc., etc.

2-4 microbrews a day is nothing to be concerned about, IMO, compared 
to eating toaster pastries for breakfast, stopping at McD's for lunch 
every day, drinking 4-6 cans of soft drinks daily, having a bag of 
chips and/or a donut as a snack, grabbing a pocket pizza to munch on 
the way home, eating out of cans and microwave containers for dinner, 
and taking the family out to KFC for a 'fancy' meal.

Millions of Americans eat like that, and nobody's stapling an "-ism" 
to their foreheads and saying they need help... Even though over half 
of American adults are obese, we're seeing a national health epidemic 
of childhood-onset Type II diabetes. ;-) An average adult female 
requires approx. 1400 calories per day. The average American daily 
diet is 2000-3000 calories per day.

I'll skip the toaster pastries, the extra dressing on my salad, the 
Big Macs, the sodas and the TV dinners... Then I'll drink 2-4 GOOD 
beers per day, which is a LOT more enjoyable than taking "a break 
today" at McD's, and feel perfectly happy that I'm doing a lot better 
for myself than most of my countrymen/women.
- -- 
Teresa - Two Rivers, Alaska [2849, 325] Appt. Rennerian
visit http://rant.mivox.com/ - mostly stuff and nonsense
"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices
have very few virtues."  -- Abraham Lincoln


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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:21:58 -0400
From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com>
Subject: Berliner Weisse Question

Patrick Twohy writes asking the collective for input on grist formulation
for BW.

I say 50/50.  That's what I saw in a very informative article in BYO, from
a couple years ago, that I used to brew my two award-winning batches of BW
so far.  And that's good enough for me.  YMMV.


Rick Foote
Murrayville, GA
Whistlepig Brewing Company (not monkey pox carrying prarie dogs)



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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:17:55 -0700
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Wood flooring and other recycling

Andrew Moore mentions Wood Flooring From Guinness Vats

A friend of mine made some kitchen cabinets with raised panel doors for the
owner of a winery, using the redwood staves of an ancient red wine
fermentation tank.  The wood, after milling, had this absolutely incredible
purple/redwood hue.  It was all clear heart redwood, and the tanks were
probably 70 years old at the time.  Just about the most beautiful kitchen
I'd ever seen.  

Regards,
Mike Sharp

Kent, WA


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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 19:23:52 -0500
From: "Chris Knight" <knight at hypergolic.com>
Subject: Re: AHA Conference Attendance & Pub Crawl


>One disappointing distraction is that the pub crawl is sold out.  I see
that
>the Chicago Beer Society (CBS) has put together a nice night that includes
>some food and transportation arrangements.  I assume that the food and
>return-trip bus capacity is what is limiting the number of people they can
>include in the event.

Frankly I'm a little disappointed at how this was handled.  The pub crawl
is listed in the Sweet Home Brew Chicago as if it was part the actual
conference.

I had planned to attend all of the events and with that in mind I bought
a full conference pass when they went on sale as well as booking my
hotel room starting on Wednesday night.

Imagine my surprise to find out that the "pre-"conference pub crawl is not
included in the full conference pass and by the time I sent in the required
additional reservation, the pub crawl was sold out.

>The good thing is that their capacity limitation will not deter us.  Those
>interested in tagging along with the pub crawl should also meet near the
>conference registration desk at the hotel at 5 pm on Wednesday.  That's
also
>when the 'real' pub crawl meets.  Tag-alongs will have to make their own
>transportation arrangements (i.e. buy their own CTA pass), buy their own
>food, and buy their own beer.  It might be a little more expensive this
way,
>but what the heck, this is a vacation!

Perhaps I will join the 'real' pub crawl.

There's always Hop Leaf, Clark Street Ale House, Delilah's, and the beer
garden
at Sheffield's.

Chris Knight



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Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 21:15:22 -0400
From: Eric Jacobs <ejacobs at speedfactory.net>
Subject: homebrew consumption poll

Interesting question Ian, and one I've wondered about too.
I'm around 2-4 glasses (12-16 oz) a day.  

I'm also interested in the question of increase/decrease that other
people brought up.  My consumption has definitely increased over the
years- when I started homebrewing I probably only had 7 bottles or so
a week.  I think the increase is partially tied to the increased
quality as I've improved my brewing skills.  I also found that getting
a keg setup increased my consumption a bit, because now it's possible
to go get "just another half-glass".  :)

Eric
Atlanta, GA, USA


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