---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Brewery Names ("Richard Schmittdiel")
  Brewery names (David Edge)
  Conference Musings (Bob Hall)
  Brewery Names (Bob Hall)
  Ales and Sulfate ("A.J. deLange")
  Re: chamomile in beer ("Tom & Dana Karnowski")
  Brewery Names (Jennifer/Nathan Hall)
  Re: Durst dark wheat malt (Jeff Renner)
  Cumin in Wit (Brian Lundeen)
  Starch Conversion ("David Craft")
  Dark Wheat Malt (Leo Vitt)
  Magnetic Pump cleaning question ("Parker Dutro")
  RE: Brewery Names (Michael Hartsock)
  AHANat. Homebrew. Conference ("Fred Scheer")
  re: Yeast washing..  (saving yeast) ("C.D. Pritchard")
  Chamomile in beer (Chad Holley)
  RE: Carbonation question (John Schnupp)
  Pubs/Microbrewry Places in Chicago? (Ryan Neily)
  How'm I doin? ("john w")
  Fruit and Yield (Alexandre Enkerli)


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Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:08:04 -0700
From: "Richard Schmittdiel" <schmitrw at earthlink.net>
Subject: Brewery Names

David asks about our various brewery names.

Mine is the Possum Holler Brewery.  I thought of this one after I fished a
floating, dead possum out of the water bath in my garage brewery.  See, I have
the habit of sometimes forgetting and leaving the garage door open when I go
back into the house in the evening.  The poor creature must have ventured
inside, and climbed up into the water bath (20 gal. plastic muck bucket)
looking for a drink.  Once inside, he/she couldn't get out again and drowned.
I found it a couple of days later when I ventured into the garage again.
Yuck!  See, you can't hear the possum holler when you're inside the
house...I'm planning a mercury-switched tattle-tale light to remind me that
the garage door has been left open.

Rich Schmittdiel
Possum Holler Brewery
in Southern California



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Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 11:09:45 +0100
From: David Edge <david.j.edge at ntlworld.com>
Subject: Brewery names

The Signalbox Brewery got its name because of the rich
possibilities for naming beers, so long as you know UK railways.
So, for example

Distant is a caution signal,
	hence a beer made with amber malt

4-4-4 bell code "Is line clear for Royal train?"
	hence the name of an Imperial

2-5-5 "Train running away in wrong direction"
	a fair description of our first attempt at making a barley wine

Finial => the point on top of a signal post
	and hence our crowning glory - the pale ales

1-2-2 => "Weedkiller train" and hence a herbal beer

Detonator - an explosive charge clipped to the rails to warn trains in fog;
	a strong ale.

There have been plenty of non-railway names since, (Hamsterbraeu,
Poodlestabber, Fursty Fuerstin, Brummy Git Mild), but I still have
fond memories recall the family cycling up the Kinzigtal working it all out.
It seemed to fit and still does.

David Edge
Signalbox Brewery
"A Millenium of Brewing Experience"
Derby, UK




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Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 00:46:51 -0400
From: Bob Hall <rallenhall at toast.net>
Subject: Conference Musings

It's been almost a week since I returned from the national conference in 
Chicago. Since I'm from NW Ohio, Chicago was almost in my backyard (the 
Midwest anyway), so I decided to take a few days off of the summer job and 
attend my first NHC. My head is still spinning with new information, flavor 
sensations, and images of the great dinners and programs put together by 
the Chicago area brew clubs. For those who haven't attended, here is what I 
found:

1) Be open to lots of new contacts and friendships. It was great to meet 
the people who wrote all of the books on my shelves, but just as important 
to meet folks from around the country who share the same passion for their 
hobby (or obsession). Especially impressive was the organization and 
comraderie of the brew clubs that took part. They were fantastic. I've also 
emailed others I met last week, shared beer info., emailed photos, and have 
even been invited to a couple of barbeques within a few hours drive that 
will feature excellent homebrew.

2) The sessions were very helpful and informative. Frankly, I didn't miss a 
session, and I'll have to admit that such a thing never happened at a 
professional conference. Naturally, some hit my mark more than others, but 
I have to sit down and summarize my notes and gather all of my information 
and impressions. By the same token, I've never attended a conference where 
sessions had so many samples, and arriving with a brew in hand was the rule 
rather than the exception.

3) The chance to sample so many versions of so many styles was great. It 
gave me an idea of the depth and range to expect within a given style. I 
also had the chance to sample beers that I may never have had the the 
chance to taste.

4) I saw the comments about all of us greybeards, and my wife and I 
discussed that at the conference. I guess that is natural. This is a hobby, 
and those of us who are retired/semi-retired have time flexibility on our 
sides. If I had a family and two weeks vacation, I probably wouldn't opt 
for the NHC either. The Friday option for spouses was great, and perhaps 
this can be expanded to attract others who really have to ration their 
holidays.

Speaking of spouses, mine attended, and was really impressed with the 
Saturday sessions. She enjoyed the Alewifes option on Friday. She's always 
been a strong supporter of my brewing, and on the drive home said "I think 
I'd like to brew a batch with you, just to understand the whole process." 
Gentlemen, that was worth the price of admission. BTW, here are the 
comments from LeAnn ... no arm twisting involved:

"As the spouse of a brewer, I can honestly say that after sampling a wide 
variety of the great hand-crafted beers from clubs and microbrews from 
across the country, my husband's beers are really delicious. Lucky for me 
he brews the lagers I enjoy the most. I really enjoyed and learned a lot 
from the sessions on food on Saturday - great presentations. I was one of 
the lucky ones to get a sample of Jeff Renner's sourdough starter. I 
followed his instructions and produced four great loaves of sourdough 
bread, baking them on Thursday, June 26. It was nice to have had years of 
breadbaking experience to assist me in the process, but baking without 
commercial yeast was a learning experience for me. Thank you Jeff!"

What did other spouses think of the conference? Also, I'd ask the the folks 
at AHA to post the addresses of the conference sponsers on this list .... I 
would like to send thank-you's, and I'm sure that others would too.

Thanks again Chicago brewers and AHA for a wonder first experience. 
Unfortunately, my nephew has already set his wedding for the same weekend 
as the '04 conference in Las Vegas. I told him that LV has lots of 
experience with weddings, and that club night would be the ultimate venue 
for a reception, but these young kids won't listen. Oh well, hope to see 
everyone in '05.

Bob Hall
Napoleon, OH



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Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 07:17:37 -0400
From: Bob Hall <rallenhall at toast.net>
Subject: Brewery Names

I live out in the country and my water source is a farm pond, hence 
Pondwater Brewing. Nice soft water for lagers, with an occassional Algae 
Bloom Ale tossed in for variety. It's almost spiritual to run off the end 
of the dock and cannonball into my raw material. Everyone's invited out for 
a visit and a swim but remember, please don't pee in my beer (unless it 
aids head retention, but that's another thread).

Bob Hall, Pondwater Brewing
Napoleon, OH



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Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:19:10 +0000
From: "A.J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Ales and Sulfate

I did a water class for the local homebrew  club (BURP) and figured that 
a logical thing to do for it was to brew an ale with water straight out 
of my well (harness about 120, alkainity about 80, sulfate about 30) and 
with water which emulated Burton's. The results were strikingly 
different but in a surprising way. The Burton example was somewhat like 
Bass - minerally chewy. Those who tasted the two together (the point of 
the excercise)  thought the Burton  quite authentic but  found the other 
to be a much much better beer and I agree. It had a wonderfull bready 
aroma and taste and a really nice berrylike fruitiness in comparison to 
which the Burton example was quite one dimensional and relatively 
uninteresting. When put into a club only contest the soft water example 
once scored a 14 so I guess it couldn't be conidered to style but OTOH I 
had a brewer from the local brewery ask me for the "secret" and he did 
brew a test batch (which I never got to sample unfortunately).

A.J.



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Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 09:04:29 -0400
From: "Tom & Dana Karnowski" <karnowsk at esper.com>
Subject: Re: chamomile in beer

A few years ago I made a Belgian dark ale that wasn't terribly "true to
style" (it was definitely Belgian tasting but it wasn't quite malty enough).
I took my kegged portion of that beer (about 3 gallons) and added six bags
of Celestial Seasonings chamomile tea in a hop bag weighted down with
marbles.  After a few weeks it was delightful and was very well regarded by
all that tasted it.  I counter pressure bottled a bunch of them and I think
it got a few ribbons at various competitions as a spice beer.  The Belgian
OG was around 1.080 so it was a bit of a sleepy beer but still nice.




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Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 09:26:03 -0400
From: Jennifer/Nathan Hall <hallzoo at comcast.net>
Subject: Brewery Names

I like to use BBV Brewing -

Boiling is a great way to sanitize SS ball valves. Just don't let the pot boil
dry dammit. Expensive little bastards, aren't they?

That's where I get Burnt Ball Valve Brewing

Nate Hall



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Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 09:34:00 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Durst dark wheat malt

Robert Sandefer <melamor at vzavenue.net> asked

>In Digest #4281, Jeff Renner mentioned the utility of Durst dark wheat malt
>in brewing a dunkelweizen.
>
>Hey, Jeff, what is (or was) your source for this malt?

GW Kent used to import and distribute it, but I see that it isn't in 
their latest catalog.  I do seem to remember that they were 
discontinuing it.  I suspect if you had to have it they could add a 
bag to their next container from Germany.  You'd need to have your 
local hb shop check for you as they are strictly wholesale.

You can certainly make a fairly dark wheat beer using dark Munich 
(40EBC), especially if you used 50% Munich rather than the more 
conventional 30-40%.  You might also consider making Munich wheat 
malt yourself following instructions for making dark malt in your 
oven.

On a related note, our local brew pub, Arbor Brewing Co., makes their 
very good hefeweitzen with 50/50 pils/wheat malt, but made a one-off 
substituting 20EBC Munich for a quarter of the pils malt (for 1/8 
total Munich).  The resulting beer was a richer color and more malty 
 - I preferred it.  The owner/head brewer, though, prefers the very 
pale yellow of the usual recipe, so they will go back to it.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 11:54:05 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: Cumin in Wit

Joel Gallihue writes:

Someone once told me Hoegaarden uses it in their Wit but I haven't checked 
that out. 

Me: I've heard the Hoegaarden secret spice is cumin. Of course, if people
outside of the brewery actually knew what it was, it wouldn't be a secret
anymore, would it? 

Now, I'm quite willing to have a go with some cumin at some point in time,
but I would like to get a better idea from someone whose actually used it as
to how much and when. I don't want a repeat of my spiced ale which I call
Death by Allspice. It is really quite overpowering, and I can see cumin
being the same way if used with a heavy hand. 

Of course, this won't come in time to help me with my Wit batch tomorrow,
but having recently bought a sack of soft wheat, and practically stealing
454.5 grams of bitter orange peel courtesy of our defunct brew pub, I figure
I'll be brewing Wits pretty regularly for awhile.

Cheers
Brian, in Winnipeg



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Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 14:40:44 -0400
From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Starch Conversion

Greetings,

I brewed with a new all grain brewer last night.  I have been all grain for
about 4 years now and love the results.

We did not get complete conversion after 90 minutes using mostly Golden
Promise malt.  I have never used this before so maybe this is part of the
reason.
I got a small black reaction and my helper asked if that meant we were 90,
91,92 or more.........percent there?  I did not know the answer but think
it is that we essentially converted 98-99 % or more of the starch with a
little hanging on for dear life.

Any thoughts on this from the Chemists in the bunch?

David B. Craft
Battleground Brewers Guild
Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery
Greensboro, NC



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Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 12:31:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leo Vitt <leo_vitt at yahoo.com>
Subject: Dark Wheat Malt


I have also used dark wheat malt in weizenbocks.  However, I used
Weyermann's.   It is another reputable German maltster (sp?).
My source - St Pats.  I have also special ordered it through
Bauchus and Barleycorn.

How good is it?  My first using that grain took 1st in the club only
Weiss is Nice.

Off the top of my head, the grain bill was 
10 lbs dark wheat malt
5 lbs munich malt
1 lb dark crystal -- probably 90L



=====
Leo Vitt
Sidney, NE



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Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:32:23 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <pacman at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: Magnetic Pump cleaning question

The pump I bought on eBay finally came today.  It's a Little Giant
3-MD-MT-HC.  It was advertised as new but I strongly suspect it is used
by its appearance.  It looks to be in good shape though, and I got it at
a great price.  My question is:  What is a good way to thoroughly clean
the inside of the pump?  I was thinking I could just hook it up to my
tun and do a "dry" run using some hot water and Straight-A cleaner.  The
inside has a slight gasoline-type smell and I am hoping that a good
cleaning will eliminate this.  Upon removal of the Volute (cover thing),
there is a black grease-like fluid on the inside and under the impeller.
It appears to be a lubricant.  Is this normal?  The pump came with no
instructions unfortunately, and I have never owned one before.  Do I
need to manually clean this stuff, as it seems that any fluid pumped
through right now would come into contact with it?  Thanks.

Parker Dutro
Portland, OR




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Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 15:34:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Brewery Names

I haven't officially named my brewery, But i'm
thinking of calling it "One-Eye Brewery", because i
have 1 eye (that works).

Michael
columbia, MO

=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."



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Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 06:00:34 -0500
From: "Fred Scheer" <FHopheads at msn.com>
Subject: AHANat. Homebrew. Conference

HI ALL:
A little bit late, but.....
Just wanted to say that I enjoyed seeing so much
old friends and making new ones at the National
AHA Conference in Chicago. What a Great Job they
did.....Jeff Sparrow and his team, the AOB team,
and of course each Homebrewer and the representing Clubs.
I had GREAT Beers and GREAT Food.
Every talk I attended was very good, and I learned
lot's there (you see, a old Fox can learn too).
If you like to see pictures from the conference,
please go to my website   www.brewsbrothers.net
and follow the instructions.
Again, Thanks for a GREAT Conference and I hope
to see all of you next year. If I will give a talk in
Bavarian dress, I make sure this time that the
airconditioner works in the room.

Fred M. Scheer


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Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 10:14:52
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: re: Yeast washing..  (saving yeast)

Mike asked about saving yeast for more than one month.

Freezing yeast works well for me- sdetails at chattanooga.net/~cdp/.  The
"Yeast Bank" from http://www.countrywines.com/ is a good way to start.  It
uses a propertiary fluid called Freeze Shield to preserve the yeast.
Alternatively, try a HBD archive search- there have been previous posts
about freezing yeasts using sugar and glycerine solutions- some pointers
from my file of "keepers":   

Apr 2002 An excellent post in  via Dr. Cone.
Apr 2002 by Pete Fantasia
Aug 2000 by John Baxter Biggins

- ----
Re: cheese and beer pairings.  No one has mentioned the pairing I suspect
has the biggest following- Cheese Whiz and BudMillCoors Lite :-)  


c.d. pritchard     cdp at chattanooga.net 
http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/



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Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 12:07:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chad Holley <em2hurley at yahoo.com>
Subject: Chamomile in beer

Just wanted to thank everyone for the response both on
and off the digest.  Looks like most everyone
suggested trying it in a Wit beer.  Ok now who has
some good recipies?  I brew in 5 gallon increments,
and use Promash. 
Chad Holley
Grand Blanc, MI 



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Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 17:16:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Carbonation question

Robert,

Here is an excellent article.  You should be able to find your answer contained
within (ok, so you might need to break out you calculator).

http://hbd.org/brewery/library/YPrimerMH.html

As a matter of fact there is a lot of useful information on this site.

 -From: Robert Sandefer <melamor at vzavenue.net>
 -Subject: Carbonation question
 -
 -SNIP-
 -My question is: (a) how many CO2 volumes are in a 5-gal batch primed with 
 -3/4 cup of corn sugar; and (b) how much corn sugar would be required to 
 -reach the 3.6-5.1 volumes of CO2 level in a 5-gal batch?



=====
John Schnupp, N3CNL
??? Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200, Bumblebee



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Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:13:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ryan Neily <ryan at neily.net>
Subject: Pubs/Microbrewry Places in Chicago? 


2 Questions:

#1

I am taking a trip to Chicago the week after 4th of July with my wife.
Although I'd love to hit put all week long, I am sure my wife would rather
see some of the other aspects of Chicago rather than the Nightlife and
local pubs.

But anyhew, Can you guys give me some neat places to go in Chicago?  Any
kewl pubs and other microbrewery would be great.  I am sure some of you
that attended the AHA Conference might have some "fresh" memory of places
to go in Chicago. I'm not so interested in LHBS, but if there is a great
one there that I cant miss, then please let me know...

#2

Here in Georgia, we can only have 6% ABV beer, so when
traveling, I like to bring home some real beer!

Anyone even taken Beer on an airplane?  I am looking to bring back a sixer
or two of Chicago Beer, and am wondering about bringing it on the plane.
Anyone had problems doing this before with either airport security or
pressurization? Any recommendations on Chicago local beers that are worthy
of getting on a plane with me?

- -- 
Ryan Neily
ryan at neily.net

Random Quote:
An air of FRENCH FRIES permeates my nostrils!!


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Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 21:53:23 -0500
From: "john w" <j2saret at hotpop.com>
Subject: How'm I doin?

I've been reading the HBD for around a year now and I think I've improved
quite a bit in my methods but I wonder what I am missing I am posting the
notes I took today as I mutated a very nice porter recipe into an oatmeal
stout.  Any feed back pos or neg greatly appreciated.
John
Duluth where its always cool enough to brew.

C STOUT

Ingredients:

8 lbs Pale malt (6 row)
6 oz 90 deg crystal malt (6 row)
6 oz 40 deg crystal malt (2 row)
8 oz chocolate malt
8 oz black patent malt
14 oz crushed cheerios
1 oz northern brewer hops 7.1 AAU in boil 60 min
1 oz saaz hops in boil 20 min 5.3  AAU
1/2 oz cascade hops in boil 15 min 6.3 AAU /oz
1/2 oz cascade hops steep 5 min.
15 gram packet Coopers dry yeast.
Pro mash calculates 1.046 ig. at 70% efficiency for 5.5 gal yield to
fermenter. cheerios assumed to be the same a flaked oats for sg points
43.5  IBU  33.0 SRM.  A little   too bitter (3.5 IBU) for AHA guide lines on
Oatmeal Stout but well within BJCP's according to pro mash. however is dark
enough for AHA but 2 SRM too light for BJCP,

Mash:

Kettle mash all grains in 3.5 gal water.  Mash in at 80 deg.  stir to avoid
scorching.  This is the maximum weight of grain/vol of water a 5 gallon
kettle will hold.
Took about 1 hour to reach 150 deg(f) put in 170 deg (off) oven for 45 min
passed iodine test at 43 min. put on stove top stirred to completly mix
grains. heat on low under kettle and filled to the brim with boiling water
(about 2 cups) recirculated mash until clear (about 4 cups) adjusted flow to
about 1 gal/5 min and drained kettle.  flavour of wort in first running is
sweet and mild.  colour is muddy brown vs the porter,s clear mahogany  which
used the same malts sans cheerios.  prediction:  the oats will be the
strongest note in the finished beer.

Sparge:

Add 3 gal 200 deg water, stir completely and drain again.  note:  as the
liquid level in the kettle drops the spigot needs to be opened to maintain
the flow rate. got about 6 gal of wort at ig: 1.040.


Boil:

Split into two kettles, about 1.5 gal and about 4.5 gal. started boil at
4.15  reached boil in smaller kettle at 4:55  reached boil in larger kettle
at 5:15 added all hops to larger kettle.

Chill

Cold water bath from 6:20--8:20  When water no longer warmed transfered to
fermenter got about 5.5 gal sg 1.046  taste is smooth and sweet chocolate
and black patent malts not as noticeable as in the porter but does not have
a real "oatie" flavour.

"Labor is prior to, and independent of capital.
Capital is only the fruit of labour and could never have existed
if labor had not first existed.
Labor is the superior of capital and deserves
much the higher consideratiion."
A. Lincoln (1st marxist er Republican president)




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Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 23:15:34 -0400
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: Fruit and Yield

Planning to add two kinds of fruit to batches of fairly dextrinous 
Weizen. One is in the form of a molasses and the other is banana puree 
that I cooked in the oven for a while. Apart from admonitions not to 
use fruits in beer, discussions on fruit beers seem to focus on how to 
sterilize the fruit, when to add it, possible fermentation problems, 
and how long to age the finished beer.
At this point, though, I'm more interested in contribution to the OG 
and, eventually, FG.
Is there a way to guestimate what the "yield" of my fruit syrup or 
banana puree might be based on their volume masses and/or documented 
sugar contents?
More specifically, how should I enter these values in, say, 
StrangeBrew, ProMash, or BeerSmith?
At room temperature, the "molasses" weighed 380g in 280ml. The warm 
banana puree weighed about 900g and fitted in about 840ml. Both of 
these are for 5gal batches.

Additional advice welcome (in private).

Cheers!

Alex



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---