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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Brewing software for mac? (Rob Hudson)
  brewing in Puerto Rico (darrell.leavitt)
  Re: Al's book suggestion ("Tom Lombardo")
  RE: White Month (AKA Alcohol-Free Month) (Jonathan Royce)
  Schweinshaxe correction (Calvin Perilloux)
  unkilned malt ("Dave Burley")
  Keg cleaning question ("Houseman, David L")
  WSJ Poll on beer advertising ("Houseman, David L")
  Homebrewing, Beer and Children-- Your Replies (CD Powers)
  Al's book suggestion ("John Adsit")
  Water report database & Orval (G C)
  Re: consumption rates ("-S")
  Teach an man to fish? (Beaverplt)
  Adding to the Legend ("Mark Tumarkin")
  re: fundamentals of malting ("-S")
  Oregon Brewers Festival ("Hubert Hanghofer")
  Weyermann ("Rick Gordon")
  Beer gut/bad way to lose weight/consumption rates ("Mike Maag")


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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:42:53 -0700
From: Rob Hudson <rob at tastybrew.NOSPAM.com>
Subject: Re: Brewing software for mac?

> Awhile back, there was a discussion about various
> brewing software, and I remember someone posted they
> were looking for some good mac brewing software.
> So am I.  Anybody find any?
>
> Bill

Check out:
http://usermode.org/code.html

Here's what it says to save time:
QBrew A homebrewer's recipe calculator. I needed one and did not find a
suitable GUI calculator available, so I decided to create one. It works
under Unix (Linux, BSD, Solaris, OSX, etc), as well as Windows.

QBrew on the Macintosh! Yes, it's possible. You will need Fink and the X
Window and Qt 3 packages. Here's a screenshot submitted by Andy Freed.
Screenshot: http://usermode.org/code/macosxqbrew.png


I've read through the code and it is good stuff.  I've even submitted a
patch for the SRM calculation which should be in the next release.  Good
stuff.  :)

Cheers!
Rob
- --
Rob Hudson
Homebrewer, Programmer, Webmaster
http://www.tastybrew.com/


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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:34:54 -0400
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: brewing in Puerto Rico

James;

 I would bet that the only way to get ingredients for brewing in PR is to 
order over the internet.  

 There is only one brewpub on the island, near the airport in San Juan 
(Isla Verde area)...and the quality of their brews has gone up and 
down,..and even though the pub is in a touriste area, the many times I 
have been there, it is sadly not very busy...

 Or perhaps your brother could get to know the brewer/ owner and get the 
ingredients there?

 Unfortunatley most locals who like beer like a very light local 
brew, "Madailla" or its slightly darker cousin "India".

 Good luck to him.

 ..Darrell



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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:22:57 -0500
From: "Tom Lombardo" <toml at ednet.rvc.cc.il.us>
Subject: Re: Al's book suggestion

Al writes:
>Get a better homebrewing book.  
 ...
>I have a preference for a particular book, but will leave it to others
>to suggest it. 

I always recommend "Homebrewing, Volume 1" by Al Korzonas.  It's great for
beginners, and has enough advanced material that it's still useful even
after you have a good deal of experience.

Tom (in Rockford, IL)




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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 05:15:57 -0700
From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan at woodburybrewingco.com>
Subject: RE: White Month (AKA Alcohol-Free Month)

Steve Alexander wrote:
"Sometimes - due to a minor illness or a lack of anything interesting when on
the road I take a vacation from drinking alcohol for a few days." 

and Ant Hayes wrote:
"A good test is to drink no alcohol for a month without telling anyone why."

This is a practice that my wife and I have been doing for three years now. She 
calls is a "white month", which may be either a Scandanavian (sp. Swedish) term 
translated into English, or just a term particular to her family (I'm not sure 
which).

Our "white month" usually begins on New Years' Day and runs until Feb 1. This 
is both because our alcohol consumption rises sharply around the holidays (i.e. 
the guilt factor is high) and also because January is a month free from 
holidays and family celebrations (i.e. it's convenient). 

Since I've been homebrewing, the hardest part of not drinking during this month 
has not been due to a desire for alcohol, but instead due to a strong curiosity 
to taste my brews that are just coming into their prime (no pun intended)! Last 
year I had two or three brews waiting on Feb 1 that were wholly untasted. 

Jonathan
Woodbury Brewing Co.
www.woodburybrewingco.com


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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:02:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Schweinshaxe correction

Sorry for the off-beer topic, but I have to put in a correction
to my earlier post on Schweinshaxe, in case someone looks up the 
place and gets nothing:

"Schmankerl Stube, Potomac St. at Antietam St., Hagerstown, MD"

Too much of a hurry to rush off to the annual homebrew picnic 
that day.  Sorry.

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA




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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:59:53 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: unkilned malt

Brewsters:

Stuart Grant of Hobart, Tasmania (I've been there - nice Olde England flavor)
asks why the kilning step is necessary in making malt.

The answer is, of course, it is not necessary.  I have made beer from green
malt I produced at home and in olden times the Dutch and Belgians used to make
wind malt in which the malt was air dried. Both of these would have extremely
high enzyme content, I expect. However, in kilned malt the kilning temperature
also destroys classes of enzymes so the non-kilned malts will have also a
different enzyme activity spectrum.

The beer I made from green malt was light in color.  The flavor was OK but
light in taste as I recall.  Some green malts can produce, well... "green"
tasting beers.

I suspect the same sort of reason we roast coffee and such is to develop
melandoins for bready and caramel and such flavors in beer is the reason we
kiln.  Also, kilned malt of a low moisture content is a stable commercial
product with a lifetime of many years in proper storage, wheresas I doubt the
same is true of air dried malt and certainly not true of green malt.

So, in short, flavor and stability are the reasons for the kilning of
commercial malts and the commercial beers are made from what is comercially
available.

Go all grain as soon as you can. You will not regret the additional effort.

Keep on Brewin',

Dave Burley





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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:25:07 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Keg cleaning question

I'm curious what others do on a regular basis in cleaning kegs from one
batch to the next.  While I rinse them, scrub with a carboy brush and PBW
and then sanitize prior to reuse with Iodophor and rinse with boiling water,
I don't on a regular basis dis-assemble the poppet valves or take a brush to
the inside of the outlet tube.  When sanitizing with Iodophor I do
pressurize and vent Iodophor through both the inlet and outlet poppets.
Do others field strip these valve assemblies between each use?   Similarly
with the picnic valves and serving tubing?  

Dave Houseman


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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:05:16 -0400
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: WSJ Poll on beer advertising

The Wall Street Journal's online Question of the Day (July 11) asks, "Should
the government place new restrictions on beer advertising in an effort to
curb underage drinking?"  The link is:
<http://discussions.wsj.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=wsjvoices&nav=messages&m
sg=2903> .  Go vote!
Dave Houseman
 



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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:17:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: CD Powers <cpowers1114 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Homebrewing, Beer and Children-- Your Replies

Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful and reasoned
responses on the topic! It's good to know that others
have successfully dealt with this issue and are
raising a crop of kids who will have a rational
attitude about beer and wine. Your input and advice
give me hope that I can do the same. 

P.S. Please allow me to apologize to the Antipodeans,
Africans and anyone else who might feel slighted by my
unintentional implication that a sane, responsible
attitude toward alcohol in daily life was a primarily
European phenomenon. Unconcious northern-hemispheric
bias on my part which I will work to overcome!

Thanks again,

Christopher Powers
Portland OR



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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:49:53 -0600
From: "John Adsit" <j.adsit at comcast.net>
Subject: Al's book suggestion

Al Korzonas has a vague suggestion:

> Get a better homebrewing book.
>
> I have a preference for a particular book, but will leave it to others
> to suggest it.
>
> Al Korzonas
> www.brewinfo.com
>
I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that he is referring to
"Homebrewing - Volume I," by Al Korzonas.  Amazon readers rate it five
stars.

John Adsit
Boulder, CO
j.adsit at comcast.net




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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:56:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: G C <gsd4lyf at yahoo.com>
Subject: Water report database & Orval

Brewing water discussions seems to be a frequent
topic, and it appears many people have had their tap
water tested or have access to their city water
quality reports. Has anyone ever compiled this data
and made it publicly available?  I think this would be
helpful and might save some people from searching for
this info. if enough data was gathered. 

Also, has anyone that has had the tap water from their
faucets tested noticed significant differences in the
results as compared to their city water reports? My
local water provider gets its water from three
different sources: groundwater, imported surface
water, and mountain surface water. All three vary
quite a bit in some respects. According to the map on
the report, my area receives mainly mountain surface
water. However, the report also says that there are
seasonal changes in the distribution pattern and the
sources are often blended together. This makes me
wonder how accurate the average data for my area is. 

On Orval:

>From what I've heard, the yeasts are the key. I read a
post by a Belgian who toured Orval and asked them
questions about the yeast. He said they would only say
that they used six different strains for primary
fermentation added at three different times, one of
the three times being prior to bottling. They also
confirmed that one of the strains was a particular
type of Brett.  If you culture the yeast from the
bottle, I doubt you'll get all you need. I believe I
read here some time ago that WLP510 Bastogne is
reportedly an Orval strain.   


Guy
Los Gatos, CA 





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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:19:39 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: consumption rates

I must thank Mike Maag for the thoughtful  response
(which is typical  for MM).

MikeM wrote ....,
> >>I drink 5 to 6 homebrews (6-7%) daily on weekdays, and 10 to 12 on

That's a high rate Mike, and from your 32" waist size I have to assume you
are something like 155lbs so you don't get any slack for distributing all
that alcohol throughout a massive body.

> Yes those are pints, I've been imbibing at that level for over 10 years.
I
> get a full physical exam yearly, and do have slightly elevated liver
> indicators.. but only slightly.

Hardly surprising.  The liver can process ethanol at only so high a rate and
consumption beyond that rate cause elevated and toxic levels of acetaldehyde
to build up.   Elevated liver enzyme levels indicates your liver is
releasing excess enzymes into the bloodstream due to damage.

>Frankly, I'm appalled that most posters state they only drink 2-3
> homebrews a day.

So how do you feel about someone with potential liver damage drinking an
average equivalent of half a liter of whiskey or 2.2 bottles of wine
*every* day and calling it healthy ?

Drinking alcohol - whether at my 48gm per day or your(Mike's)  175gm per day
average carries health risks.    I've decided I can tolerate my risk level
for now.   Drinking the equivalent of half a liter of whiskey per day with
elevated  liver enzymes levels is beyond my risk tolerance.    If you're
happy with your choice to drink -  risks and liver be damned  - then go for
it, Mike.    Let's not pretend that it's anything close to healthy living.
I don't even imagine that my level is a positive health factor.

>[...], when the liver enzymes were elevated on last years physical exam,
> the Dr. had me stop drinking for a week then re tested. . no
change..didn't
> really find out what that meant.

I just play a doctor on HBD - so take this with a large grain of salt...

When anyone drinks to excess fatty liver condition (steatosis) is sure to
follow.  This condition is reversible relatively rapidly.   I *suspect* your
doctor was trying to see of the liver enzyme excess was short term steosis
damage or a chronically elevated enzyme level which would imply other less
reparable damage.    If the AST and ALT levels remain elevated for 6 months
a liver biopsy is indicated.   We might assume your Doc decided retesting
could wait a year based on the slight elevation.

Here is a list ...

http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual_home/boxes/115b1.jsp

As you can see elevated blood levels of most of these enzymes
are due to liver damage.

> My yearly physical is about due, I'll post an up-date afterwards.

Whether you post the results or not Mike, talk to your doctor about the
amounts and strength you drink and the implications re the blood tests.
Liver damage can be cause by a lot of things other than alcohol but alcohol
consumption beyond the tolerance limit will exacerbate these.   Personally
if I was in your situation and the next readings were elevated I'd give up
all alcohol till that problem was corrected.   I mean you wouldn't play
soccer on a broken leg would you ?

Best of luck, Mike.   I sincerely hope you'll post back in a few weeks  that
my concerns were overblown.

 -S




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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:24:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Beaverplt <beaverplt at yahoo.com>
Subject: Teach an man to fish?

David Wilbur writes 
This brought to mind the saying that goes something
like:  "Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. 
Teach a man to fish and he eats for the rest 
of his life."
 
The real saying is "Give a man a fish and he eats for
one day.  Teach a man to fish and he'll sit in a boat
and drink beer all day". 




=====
Jerry "Beaver" Pelt



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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:06:52 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Adding to the Legend

After my post about the Siebel Scholarship & Rob Moline, I received the
following email along with a request to forward it on to the HBD....
Knowing Rob as a friend for the last several years, seeing behind the wizard's
curtain so to speak, I'm not quite so much in awe... but then maybe that's
actually the right word...the man is awesome....

Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville,FL

Anyhow, here's the post from Wendell Ose, Reston, Va.
via Iowa, The Vacation Capital of the Midwest.

After years of reading The Jethro Gump Reports on HBD and swapping a few
e-mails and phone calls, I finally met The Man and drank his fine beers.

Vacation plans called for visiting my family and celebrating a traditional
small town Iowa 4th of July.  Mrs. O and I flew into Des Moines (not
pronounced Dez Moin ez) shortly after lunch on Thursday the 3rd.  We were met
by my bro, his wife and my niece and being hungry and thirsty, the five of us
proceeded to Court Avenue Brewing Co., mythical home of Jethro Gump.

We asked to be seated near the glass-walled brewhouse and ordered a sampler of
7 beers...an impressive number in most pubs but unbelievable for Iowa.

There was activity in the brewhouse and we trembled in anticipation of meeting
Mr. G.  Our waitstaffer told us Gump would soon come to our table and
instructed us not to make eye contact with him, touch him or make big arm
movements.  All understood we would soon be in the presence of greatness.  I
had not felt this way since watching The Wizard of Oz for the first time as a
small child.

Moments later, lights brightened, quiet and calm engulfed our little niche and
standing beside us was Himself.  He put us at ease in a papal manner and
proceeded to enlighten us about all things malty.  We were given a private
tour of the brew house, malt room, mill room and tank area.  My big-time
farming brother was very impressed with Jethro's Automatic Grain Mill and all
the stainless but most of all he loved Gump's Porter.  My niece loved his
Raspberry Wheat and the golden Rye (available all year) and I was very
impressed with the Pale and Brown ales.

I felt honored when Gump asked me to do his bidding.  Gump wants all in the
HBD community to know that he does not have scales or horns and invites all of
us to visit him in the future.  Even though I did not look him in the eye, I
did see his reflection in the glass and mirrors of Court Avenue Brewing and I
would describe him as a cross between Sir Lawrence Olivier and Mel Gibson.

Gump left us and went back to his kettle.  We enjoyed excellent meals in very
comfortable surroundings, finished our pints and paid a bill that miraculously
did not include any beverage charges.  It's good to know The Gump.

Reverently,  Wendell Ose, Reston, Va.




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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:52:21 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: re: fundamentals of malting

Stuart Grant asks ...

>I may have missed something, but why is it necessary to kiln the barley 
>after it has started germinating. The way it was explained to me, the
>function of  kilning is to stop the enzymes working until they are
>needed (in the mash).

No that's not right.  You  need to dry malt to prevent continued
germination (with horrendous carbo losses) to prevent further
bacterial growth (all malting is a fight w/ bacteria and fungi) and
to prevent deterioration.   You do not need to kiln malt. Drying
and kilning are two different things.

Traditionally Continental malts has a short low temperature
kilning while UK malts were high kilned(higher temp).  Not
any more - these two are often processed rather similarly.

>So, my question is this: wouldn't it be possible to create a
>super-light  (coloured) malt by mashing it as soon as it has
>begun to germinate - effectively skipping the
>kilning step?

In N.Europe there is a pre-industrial tradition of making "wind malt"
by allowing malt to dry in the wind & sun with no kilning. And this
is used after a seasoning period.   I've done this before - no problem.

I would not recommend mashing with damp malt or even recently
dried malt.    Yes the enzymes are present and you can make beer,
but the crushing is very difficult. Worse yet w/o a dry seasoning
period you will get a lot of grassy flavors from the wet malt.  Some
of the off-flavors are said to dissipate in the boil while others do not.




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Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 02:10:10 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Hubert Hanghofer" <replace_with_signature at antispam.homelinux.net>
Subject: Oregon Brewers Festival

Prosit everyone,

some of you long-time readers may remember me - I've made a few posts in
the past. I've tried to catch up several times without success. -Currently
I'm in the managing board of an Austrian beer consumers union and delegate
to the EBCU - keeps me too busy for the moment ...no time left in my
SWMBO-approved-beer-timetable!

Anyway, now I'm enjoying the woods and lakes in beautiful British Columbia
with my family. That means living outdoors with canned budmillors on ice
(or no beer at all). But if the grizzleys don't catch me I'll try to
re-align my tastebuds and visit the Oregon Brewers Festival in Portland on
Friday, 25th of July and (maybe) the brewers dinner on Thursday eve.

I'm afraid my liver's capacity is too limited for the variety of beers
there so any suggestions on "must-sample" brews is highly appreciated! And
if there are any of you hbd'ers around I'd of course like to meet with
you!

Please contact me at:
brew at netbeer dot org

 ...but please note that I'm off now for almost one week and probably
cannot check my mails until next monday.

Allzeit gut Sud!
Hubert Hanghofer

Salzburg, Austria
temporary based in Trail, BC


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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:33:57 -0400
From: "Rick Gordon" <regordon at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Weyermann

I personally have had very good experience with Weyermann malts. I had the
luck to live in Bamberg for a few years and of course got rather fond of the
Schlenkerla rauchbier. Weyermann has a very good smoked malt which allows me
to make a humble replica of the gold standard. I say "thumbs up".

BTW - I also like *cascade* hops (per Jeff's query a while back). They
remind me of the early days of the craft brewing resurgence here in the US.

DB info: 44 years old. Avg. 1 beer per day, maybe a couple on the weekend.
Brew all-grain about once a month or less (school, work, home
responsibilities). Brewed with kids since 1991. No issues with alcohol abuse
that I am aware of in either child. If anything, my daughter has taught her
SO that quality in beer is far better than quantity - a tough sell for a
college kid!  She (21 in Sep) used to grab my beer and sip it as a little
girl sitting on my lap when we were in Germany. Funny how quickly that
stopped when we returned to the states...

Rick
[580.2, 181.4] Rennerian




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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:54:21 -0400
From: "Mike Maag" <maagm at rica.net>
Subject: Beer gut/bad way to lose weight/consumption rates

Steve posts:

>So how do you feel about someone with potential liver damage drinking an
>average equivalent of half a liter of whiskey or 2.2 bottles of wine
>*every* day and calling it healthy ?

I don't recall calling it healthy.  I was simply trying to illustrate beer not
being the cause of weight gain, when a person's diet consists of high fat
foods, and beer.  If weight loss is the goal, it makes more sense to me to
reduce consumption of high fat foods, rather than reduce the beer consumption.

I know my beer consumption rate is high, and will continue to monitor my liver
enzymes.  I do not think my minor liver damage is the cause of weight loss.

I will schedule my physical soon and will post the results.  I will cut back
on my beer consumption if medically indicated.

I appreciate your concern Steve.

Mike Maag, in denial in the Shenandoah Valley, VA.









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