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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Barrels and (Roasted) Barley (Michael)
  RE: Kids and Beer ("tOM Trottier")
  Re: Beer Culture ... (David Radwin)
  Anheuser World Select ("Mark Tumarkin")
  O'fest mash // New survey topic: Are you a Malt Nazi? (Grant Family)
  Re: Norse Beer ("Travis Miller")
  RE: Beer Culture in Scandinavia (Jonathan Royce)
  RE: Norse beers (Jonathan Royce)
  RE: Kids and Beer (Michael Hartsock)
  RE: Anheuser Lager (Michael Hartsock)
  Pisen (homebre973)
  RE: barrel evaporation (Brian Lundeen)
  re:   "Anheuser lager"? (asemok)
  RE:Anheuser lager ("Reddy, Pat")
  Re: "Anheuser lager"? (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
  Re: AB Lager ("Richard S. Sloan")
  Re: "Anheuser lager"? ("Rich Medina")
  Re: Anheuser Lager (Chuck Doucette)
  Hopfenbitter ("Patricia Beckwith")
  brew software, misc tools ("John Sarette")
  Savannah Pub Crawl ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Re: Maximum strength ("-S")
  Re: "Anheuser lager"? (Jeff Renner)


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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:37:14 -0500
From: Michael <grice at binc.net>
Subject: Barrels and (Roasted) Barley

Mike Sharp wrote in response to A.J. deLange's question:
> 
> 1) Has anyone else here had experiences which tend to confirm or deny my
> suspicion?
> 
> 
> I posted recently an anecdotal story about this, but I'll briefly repeat it 
> here.  A winery client made a Pinot Noir vin gris, and the grapes had very 
> high sugars that year.  It finished over 14% (the tax boundary), and so they 
> left it in oak for a while until the alchohol dropped to 13.9%.  I think 
> alcohol evaporation is fairly well known in the wine industry.  They keep 
> the barrels topped up, and so the alcohol must escape through the pores in 
> the oak...the process is much slower than what you described in your beaker 
> test.  I wish I could remember the exact time that the wine spent in the 
> barrel to drop a given percent, but alas, I was more concerned with bottling 
> lines at the time!

>From what I remember, oak barrels have three benefits for wines: oak
flavor (depending on how old the barrel is, etc.), controlled
oxygenation, and concentration of the wine through evaporation of
both alcohol and water. This is why you must reserve some must in order
to top up.

You do, however, have some control over which evaporates more quickly. In
a sufficiently humid environment, a higher percentage of alcohol will
evaporate, and the overall alcohol percentage will go down. In a dry
environment, more water water will evaporate the and overall alcohol
percentage will increase. (Or so I've read. I've made a little wine, but
I'm not ready for a barrel yet.)

On a completely unrelated note, I've seen a number of sources which
describe how to roast your own grains. I've been thinking I'd try
this, and I'm curious as to how many of you actually do this. Is it
most worthwhile for those grains which are not available commercially,
or does it have any benefits/pitfalls for commonly available specialty
grains? Which types of specialty grains are the best for home roasters
to try?

Michael
Middleton, WI


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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 01:39:31 -0400
From: "tOM Trottier" <Tom at Abacurial.com>
Subject: RE: Kids and Beer 

I've offered my kids (now 21 and 17) beer and wine to taste, or even to drink a 
few oz/cl  whenever they asked. While I feared they might like the taste of one 
or another concoction excessively, my fears proved unfounded.

Since adolescence is the age of rebellion, I think generally it's best for the 
parents to offer alcohol to taste before and during this age. Then they can 
rebel against it....

tOM----  Abacurial Information Management Consultants ----
Tom A. Trottier, President		http://abacurial.com
758 Albert St, Ottawa ON Canada K1R 7V8 
N45.412 W75.714	+1 613 860-6633	fax:+1 775 307-4133
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little 
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
	-- Benjamin Franklin



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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 01:03:04 -0700
From: David Radwin <dradwin at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Beer Culture ...

> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:52:48 -0400
> From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>

> One of the Scandanvian countries (which ?) has a rather severe tax on
> alcohol and so there are regular binge drinking episodes by adults on
> cruises and out-of-country trips.   Apparently treating adults or
> adolescents like children causes them to act accordingly.

Sweden, Norway, and Finland are all relatively restrictive, but I think 
Sweden takes the cake. Vodka is taxed at 87.1% and "strong beer" is 
taxed at 45.2%. If I recall correctly, the only kind of alcohol 
available in supermarkets is 3% abv or so beer. Everything else must be 
purchased at the state-owned liquor monopoly 
(http://www.systembolaget.se/english).

I understand that many states in the US have rules about what sorts of 
alcohol you can buy at particular times and places. Here in CA it's 
pretty liberal--you can buy almost anything in any liquor store or 
supermarket at any time except 2-6 AM. Also, bars cannot serve after 2 AM.

One consequence of this high tax is that duty-free shopping is quite 
popular, as I witnessed on a cruise from Sweden to Finland. The on-board 
duty-free shop even sold luggage carts to carry your cases of beer home. 
I did not notice any binge drinking on the ship, but there was plenty of 
"binge buying."

David in Berkeley CA
news at removethispart.davidradwin.com



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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:31:21 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Anheuser World Select

Jeff,

You mention the sign you saw in California that said, - "Ten Brewmasters. Four
Continents. One Beer."

This is the slogan for Anheuser World Select, a recently announced product.
You were correct in observing that the green bottle signifies an intention to
compete with the premium imports. Their  Bare Knuckle brand is also part of
this attempt to compete with better quality brews. I haven't had the
opportunity to try either of these products.

http://www.industrypages.com/artman/publish/Industry_News_2707.stm

Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL




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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:19:50 +1000
From: Grant Family <grants at netspace.net.au>
Subject: O'fest mash // New survey topic: Are you a Malt Nazi?

G'day

I'm conducting my vewwy first partial mash (3.3 lb. grain) soon. It's for an
O'fest (with 6.6 lb. extract + the grain) and my question is, what method
should I use? I'd like to keep it simple, obviously, but have been advised that
Oktoberfests benefit from decoction mashing (which is still an ominous enigma
to me).

Secondly, in reading Fix & Fix's O'fest book - which stressed the importance
of authentic ingredients - I developed a dislike for recipes that subscribe to
this Malt Nazism. Why must people insist on Moravian malts, noble hops etc...

What is everyone's experiences with "authentic" vs. local ingredients? Are you
a Malt Nazi, or a sacraligious heretic (like me)...?

But, more than that, what makes you go authentic or local. For my part, I'm
relatively isolated, and a (poor) student meaning that I can't afford
authentic. Does anyone choose local deliberately in anachistic (or pioneering)
fervour?

Hmm, so stick that in your mash and brew it ... and respond please. This
should be interesting...

Stuart Grant
Breaking traditions in Hobart, Tasmania, Australia



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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 07:51:51 -0600
From: "Travis Miller" <travismiller at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Norse Beer

> I am looking for information on the types of beer that the ancient Norse
> drank. There is a themed party being planed for a few months from now.
What
> should I be looking at in terms of alcohol color flavor hoping levels
other
> spices used yeast character I need information both on ingredients to use
> and the desired final result. Information on the types of mead they made
> would also be appreciated.


This is a difficult subject because when you start looking for recipes from
the Viking age (the era between the late 8th century and 1066)  you won't
find any.  Basically what I believe to be a likely idea of what an ale from
pre-conversion Scandinavia would have been is this.  A fairly smoky dark
malt, with a variety of different herbs such as juniper berries, mugwort,
spruce, sage, yarrow and maybe wormwood.  It would have been fairly sweet
and maybe medicinal tasting from the herbs.  Any bittering would have come
from the herbs, mugwort and wormwood most likely.  Hops were not widely used
until the 16th century and grudgingly so then. Alcohol content is anyone's
guess because fermentation was not understood until relatively recently.
Wild yeast strains would have been utilized.  If you can find a copy through
your library you might read Odd Nordland's book "Beer and Brewing Traditions
in Norway".  There are some brewing methods in this book that would make
most modern brewers cringe.  There is another problem when discussing this
particular interest.  Which Vikings are we talking about.  The Danes?  The
Rus?  The Swedes?  The Icelanders?  What were the Vikings in Orkney drinking
while the Rus were down on the Volga drinking what was available to them?
As far as mead is concerned I would imagine that it was pretty varied.  If
there were some sort of berries, herbs, or something else laying about and
would be good they probably threw it in..  I doubt they let it clear or age
and it was cloyingly sweet.  It is likely that wild honey would have been
used and the entire hive, angry bees and all would have been tossed into the
fermentation vessel.

One must remember that these beverages were not just for getting
intoxicated.  These beverages were sacred and holy things to those who
raised the drinking horn to Odin and his children.  They were used for
medicinal and nutritional purposes and most definitely for ritual and
religious purposes.  The holiest of oaths were spoken over the mead horn in
a form of ritual drinking and toasting called sumble.  Three rounds are what
appear most often in the available literature.  The first to the Gods, the
second to the ancestors and land spirits, and the third was for boasting and
the making of oaths.  Such a thing was considered to be very important to
the luck and continued existence of the clan.  Should one get too deep into
his cups and mis-speak in sumble he could potentially harm all who sat in
the mead hall.  If one spoke of their deeds and held to the oaths made in
the mead hall then all who were present would be seen as lucky (a very
important concept in the Scandinavian cosmology)  and favored by the Gods.
To break an oath spoken in the mead hall could get one banished or killed.
That is how serious the northmen were about their ale.   It was also very
important to pour libations to the Gods and Goddesses.  This was seen as
being a form of gift giving between men and their deities.  The horn was
"loaded" with the strength of the Gods and the final portion in the horn was
poured out to the Gods as a gift in return for their favor.  I could go on
for a while about this but I think you get the point.

To sum up: no one really knows what the Vikings drank and I don't believe
that there has been much in the way of archeological evidence that will help
determine it either.  The best anyone can do is to look to what is done in
rural Scandinavia today.  They mash in oak tuns with grain that is grown and
malted on the property- the lautering is done in a container that is lined
with juniper branches that make up the "false bottom" of the lautering
vessel.  The yeast comes from birch sticks that were in the fermenter with
the last batch and hung up to dry until the new batch is ready for
fermentation.  This makes me think that brewing in the Viking age was
probably very hit and miss.  You might check out some of the SCA websites.
They have some sources that are quite informational.  Some of them have done
some historical brewing experiments but from what I understand the beer has
been mostly undrinkable by today's standards.




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 05:14:49 -0700
From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan at woodburybrewingco.com>
Subject: RE: Beer Culture in Scandinavia

Steve wrote:
"I would like to point out Alexandre, that binge drinking is not a new
American phenomena, but is ascribed to far northern Europeans some 18
centuries ago - modern Scandinavia, Denmark, UK, Ireland where drinking to
excess was part of certain annual festivals."

It is true that in modern Scandinavia (which, BTW, includes Denmark so there is 
no need to list them separately), celebrations such as Midsummer, Christmas and 
the autumn crayfish parties all involve elevated consumption of beer, wine and 
snaps (a 35-40% spirit that one typically drinks as a shot).

However, IMO, it is a serious mistake to compare these events to the pre-21 
year old phenomenon of "binge drinking". In my experience, students on American 
college campuses often drink with a goal in mind of getting drunk. It is not 
uncommon to overhear a conversation among students that takes the basic form of 
Q. "What are you doing tonight?" A. "Getting wasted". On the other hand, the 
drunkenness that often occurs at a Swedish Midsummer party is a byproduct of 
the social setting in which the party takes place, but it is not the goal. The 
point of the day is to celebrate a particular occasion with friends and family, 
not to serve alcohol. Yes, alcohol is served and imbibed in larger-than-normal 
quantities, but that is not the sole intention of the festival. In fact, 
likening such an event to what occurs on a weekly basis on college campuses is 
similar to likening an American wedding reception to a fraternity party. 

I think that the issue of the "context" of drinking is an important one that 
needs to be considered when talking about consumption, especially in those that 
are younger than 21. IMO, it is a very big part of the distinction between what 
others have coined the "American" and "European" attitudes towards alcohol. For 
example, in the year that I lived in France and the 3 months that I lived in 
Scandinavia, I was drunk many times. However, these times of inebriation were 
always the result of extended outings with friends that eventually resulted in 
me being drunk-the goal was never the state of being drunk, but rather to 
socialize with friends. Conversely, in my 4 years at an American university, I 
was drunk many times as the result of a lost game of a$$hole or beer pong, 
sometimes played with people that I didn't even know! Of course, in my 
experience the "American" attitude quickly morphs into something resembling 
the "European" attitude shortly after one's 21st birthday. At 27, I certainly 
don't have any friends who still want to get wasted because they think it's fun 
to be out-of-control. (Although I do still know some guys that have beer pong 
tables, so I guess the change is never complete.) 

Anyway, if Steve meant for his comments to be read in the very strict context 
that binge drinking is "the consumption of 5 or more alcoholic beverages in a 
row", then he is right: binge drinking happens during certain Scandinavian 
holidays (as it does in the US at Christmas, Thanksgiving and 4th of July 
barbecues). However, if one takes a broader view and considers the context (or 
social setting) of these events, then clearly they don't fit with the popular 
notion of "binge drinking" among American college students. 

Best regards,

Jonathan
Woodbury Brewing Co.
www.woodburybrewingco.com


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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 05:22:20 -0700
From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan at woodburybrewingco.com>
Subject: RE: Norse beers

Edwards asked about Norse beers. 

On January 23 of this year, I posted some info about Swedish beers and 
translated a recipe for Gotlands dricka, which I haven't tried but am still 
very intrigued by. My father-in-law's mother was from Gotland and he knew of 
this beverage, but had never tried it himself. 

http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4153.html#4153-8

Hope this is (at the very least) informative, if not useful.

Good luck and skal, 
Jonathan
Woodbury Brewing Co.
www.woodburybrewingco.com


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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:29:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Kids and Beer

I couldn't agree with C.D. Pritchard and Dennis Lewis
more.  

I have to chime in on a different level.  I'm 24, and
not too far out of college.  When I was 18 and went to
college, I had hardly been around alcohol; it was
demonized by my mother in my house.  My parents never
drank in front of me, and my mother did nothing but
harp on the evils of alcohol.  She wasn't wrong about
the evils she spoke of, indeed, those evils exist. 
She didn't tell the whole story.  When I went to
college, I "discovered" alcohol, and saw that it could
be fun, social, and tasty.  I was left with a false
dillema.  The issue of alcohol in my upbringing was
presented as black and white.  I took the opposite
stance on alcohol and drank.  And drank.  And binged. 
And partied.  And binged (did I mention that?).  In
contrast, my wife grew up with alcohol; her parents
drank, and she could if she wanted to.  While she went
to parties in college and drank (and on occasion,
binged), such abuse was infrequent.  Rarely would she
overindulge, whereas, I would drink IN ORDER TO get
drunk.

I digress, but I think I've made my point.  This is
not a scientific study, but I think it is safe to say
that rebellion against prohibition-minded parents is a
non-specific marker for abusive drinking (but so is
following in the footsteps of parents who can't
control their drinking).  

My wife and I are looking to have children in the near
future - armed with the knowledge of my own
experiences - I hope that I will be able to raise
childern with a responsible perspective on alcohol. 
Primarily, it is my hope that they will not drink
budlight by the case or mix bourbon with coke.

Mike
Columbia, MO

=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."



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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:48:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Anheuser Lager

Jeff (and anyone else interested) -

Anheuser lager is a new product by AB (I'm suprised
that you couldn't find a link to it).  Go to
www.anheuser.com.  

I'm from mid-missouri, and Osage Beach at Lake of the
Ozarks is a testing ground for new AB products.  We
had Mic Ultra before anyone else in the country. 
Yippie.  (sarcasm included).  Anyway, it is a light
lager, no suprise there.  It is sold in green glass,
and was a bit light struck, so it was hard to evaluate
the flavor.  At $7.00 a six pack (from a gas station)
it certainly wasn't worth the price, but it wasn't
bad.  It had subtle noble hop flavor and aroma -
unprecedented by any other AB style.  It had much
better body and mouth feel than any other AB product
(in that it HAD body and mouth feel), but it was quite
light.  

The kicker is that it is ALL MALT.  I actually think
that it would be quite good, if I could find it not
having been exposed to flourescent lights.  It's made
from noble hops, munich and lager malt.  

According the the website, it is available in Atlanta,
Denver, Las Vegas, L.A., New York City, New Port, Lake
of the Ozarks, Jersey Shore, Hawaii, London, and Hong
Kong.  I'll never understand why AB picked Lake of the
Ozarks to launch new products and not St. Louis!  The
website also claims that the bottles are thicker
(true) to reduce the effects of light, but I still
noticed adverse effects.

All in all, its not a bad product, and I look forward
to tasting it out of a box before it has been hit by
store lights.  I wish they made it at the St. Louis
brewery, so I could taste it in its unadulterated
form!

Michael
Columbia, MO



=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:28:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: homebre973 at mindspring.com
Subject: Pisen

I wanted to make a good all grain pilsen similar to Budvar or
Urequel.  Is a decocotion mash necessary, a step-infusion mash
necessary, or can I use a single infusion mash?  I was planning
to use just pilsen malt and some carapils.  Any other 
suggestions would be appreciated.

Andy from Hillsborough, NC




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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:32:09 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: barrel evaporation

Mike Sharp writes:

A winery client made a Pinot Noir vin gris, and the grapes had very 
high sugars that year.  It finished over 14% (the tax boundary), and so they

left it in oak for a while until the alchohol dropped to 13.9%.  I think 
alcohol evaporation is fairly well known in the wine industry.  They keep 
the barrels topped up, and so the alcohol must escape through the pores in 
the oak

Me: Just to add to this, both water and alcohol evaporate from the barrels.
Ambient humidity determines the relative amounts that get lost. The higher
the humidity, the more alcohol gets lost in relation to the water. Something
to keep in mind if you're making wine or lambics in your basement.

Cheers
Brian, in Winnipeg


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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:35:04 -0400
From: asemok at mac.com
Subject: re:   "Anheuser lager"?

  Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:19:27 -0400, Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> wrote:
>..."Anheuser Lager."...It appeared to be a new sign.  I've never 
>heard of this beer...Any idea what this beer might be?
===============

I was working in Hollywood a couple weeks ago and spotted this one as 
well.  Seems to be a test market product.
Now, I'm not a big fan of A/B, but do have an open mind... especially 
since when some time ago I tasted the Anheuser Busch Pale Ale and 
found it remarkably good.  So my curiosity got the best of me and I 
picked up a bottle of the Anheuser Lager.
It was clean tasting, certainly drinkable, but I would say largely 
unremarkable unfortunately (I was hoping for more, but got what I 
expected).  It had decent body and balance, as well as a hint of that 
odd tang that Heineken usually has (slight skunk??).

All in all, an ok effort...it is a notch better than many microbrews 
I've tasted lately (horrors!!! Did he really say that???) but not as 
good as some others.  If it had a touch more hop character I think it 
would get better grades!
Just my  2 cents worth...
cheers, all...
AL


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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:41:47 -0500
From: "Reddy, Pat" <Pat.Reddy at mavtech.cc>
Subject: RE:Anheuser lager

I had the opportunity to consume copious amounts of this new brew a few
weeks ago.
It's being test marketed in Houston I believe and how I came up with several
cases of the stuff in St. Louis, well, I probably shouldn't say.  Anyway,
you're right, it's AB's answer to imported lager and is essentially a
Heineken-like Grolsche-wanna-be with a slightly sweeter edge to it.  Not
bad, and hoppier than I would have expected. 

Pat Reddy
pat.reddy at mavtech.cc
 



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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:42:11 -0400
From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
Subject: Re: "Anheuser lager"?

Jeff Renner said:
While strolling the Venice beach, I spotted a large sign on a 
building that said:

Anheuser Lager
Ten Brewmasters
Four Continents
One Beer

With a large picture of a green bottle labeled "Anheuser Lager."
Any idea what this beer might be?  
I've never heard of this beer, and a 
google search turned up only one broken link which was something 
about marketing "Anheuser lager and ale."

Well Jeff, I searched for "Ten Brewmasters" and got this link:
http://www.anheuser-busch.com/news/anheuserselect.htm 
Looks like AB is doing some serious promoting.
The new beer is called Anheuser World Select, a continental 
pilsner that is available today. 

We make the beer we drink!!
Bob Barrett
(2.8, 103.6) rennerian.  He's BACK!!!!!!!
July is American Beer Month
Drink American Beer!!!


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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 09:01:54 -0700
From: "Richard S. Sloan" <rssloan at household.com>
Subject: Re: AB Lager

>>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:19:27 -0400
>>From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
>>Subject: "Anheuser lager"?
>>
>>Anheuser Lager
>>Ten Brewmasters
>>Four Continents
>>One Beer
>>
>>With a large picture of a green bottle labeled "Anheuser Lager."
>>
>>It appeared to be a new sign.  I've never heard of this beer, and a
>>google search turned up only one broken link which was something
>>about marketing "Anheuser lager and ale."

Jeff,
This is AB's way of trying to take a piece of the import pie. The name of
the beer is "World Select".
Here is a link to a news story about it.
http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/
business/2003/06/08buschofferingbo.html

(link had to be split into two lines to get past the 80 character line
limit)

Richard Sloan
Grosse Hund Brauerei
San Diego, CA




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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:17:25 -0400
From: "Rich Medina" <gothambrewer at att.net>
Subject: Re: "Anheuser lager"?

The Honorable Jeff Renner asks,"...Any idea what this beer might be?
I assume it's an A/B product, but it's hard to imagine what they mean
by "one beer."  Is it a test market?  The green bottle made me think
they were looking for the import market."

I read about this not too long ago in a realbeer.com newsletter.
Apparently 10 A-B brewmasters teamed up to produce a 'continental
pilsner' and as Jeff suspected they are test marketing it in various
cities here in the US and abroad.

Here's the link (you may have to cut&paste) for more info:

http://www.realbeer.com/news/articles/news-001932.php

Cheers,


Rich Medina
Gothambrewery
Jamaica Estates, NY
gothambrewer at att.com


You can observe alot just by watching
 - Yogi Berra


Disclaimer: I am not a BMC fan, just a satisfied non-customer!



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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:59:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chuck Doucette <cdoucette61 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Anheuser Lager

Jeff R. asks about Anheuser Lager.

I have seen this beer on a recent trip to the Ozarks
in Missouri. I found that curious, being from the St.
Louis area. It must be a test marketing of this
product. I was curious, but not intrigued enough to
buy any at $7.50/six pack (!). Most of the beer I buy,
such as Snake Dog IPA, Schlafley Pale Ale, etc are
around $5.99/six pack. Not a lot more, but then, my
expectations for AB products are not high. I have yet
to see it on tap, or even in the bottle here at home.
Not even when I went to the AB brewery for a tour
recently. Perhaps someone else out there has tasted it
and can tell us how it tastes.

Chuck Doucette
O'Fallon, IL.



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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:56:49 -0700
From: "Patricia Beckwith" <beckwith at gwtc.net>
Subject: Hopfenbitter


>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:23:06 -0400
>From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
>Subject: What is "hopfenbitter"?

>Greetings-
>While traveling in Germany last month, I purchased a bottle of
>"Hopfenbitter" at a roadside stand outside of Tettnang.<snip>

 According to http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~topkiwi/alcohol.html

"Hopfenbitter - A German brandy with added hop buds to make it slightly
bitter"

Hope this helps.

Patricia Beckwith
Murdo, South Dakota, USA




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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:04:54 -0500
From: "John Sarette" <j2saret at peoplepc.com>
Subject: brew software, misc tools

Its summer, I thought I'd try another corn mash and brew a CAP (shades of my
Titanic disaster ale just a July ago) Anyway I was checking out the malt
mill on beer tools and  I used the site designed a CAP based on what I had
on hand or thought I could get.  The numbers for it were:
Original Gravity: 1.049
Color: 4.80 SRM
Bitterness: 32.5 IBU
When I was ready to brew (today) I used what I actually had on hand and ran
the numbers on both pro-mash and q-brew.

pro mash says: 1.046 og. srm 5.7 IBU 31.9

q brew says:1.055 og. srm 8 IBU 28

It is obvious that qbrew's author(s)mash and sparge with higher efficiency
than I do.  I hope to achieve such someday.  What I don't understand is the
discrepancy in colour and bitterness.
(BTW I just checked the mash and thanks to all of Jeff's explaining and
re-explaining it has converted perfectly in the expected time.
On another subject I saw an add for a Pocket Infra Red Thermometer by
extech.  Its temp range far exceeds the mashing, brewing and pitching temps
needed for homebrew. It sells for $60.00 USD.  Is it worth purchasing?  I
use true brew floating thermometers now for mashing and stick on liquid
crystal strips for pitching and fermenting.  Or would I be better off
getting a real malt mill for my 5 gal batches and staying with the old
measuring tech?
Thanks
John S.
Duluth Mn
(a little north west of the prime brewridian)


"Labor is prior to, and independent of capital.
Capital is only the fruit of labour and could never have existed
if labor had not first existed.
Labor is the superior of capital and deserves
much the higher consideratiion."
A. Lincoln (1st marxist er Republican president)



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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:28:01 -0400
From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Savannah Pub Crawl

Hey y'all,

On August 2nd about 8-10 members of Hogtown Brewers are driving up to Savannah
to do a pub crawl. We know about the Moon River brewpub (I believe the only
one in town?), and also about some of the beer bars & pubs in town -including
Churchill's Pub, Six Pence, O'Connell's, Kevin Barry's, and B&B Billiards.
Anyone have any other suggestions to offer? Beer stores to check out? Any
locals care to join us?

Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL




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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:24:27 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Maximum strength

AJ writes ....

> And I guess I'm skeptical that it's the diauxic feature of yeast
> metabolism. Why would they start to munch alcohol when there was all
> that sugar around?

The ability of sugars to prevent respiration activity by Crabtee  is very
dependent on the sugar involved.   After glucose, fructose and some maltose
are cleared there is little impediment to respiration if O2 is present.   I
was suggesting open fermenters and late O2 additions could reduce ethanol
content.

> I have a vague recollection that the brewing strains
> don't exhibit this behaviour but I may be thinking of something else.

You are thinking of something else.    In  examining the NCYC website I
believe that every brewing yeast that I've checked in this database which
has been tested for ethanol as a substrate has tested POSITIVE.  For
example:
http://www.ifrn.bbsrc.ac.uk/ncyc/yeasts/action.lasso
Further there are several methods for yeast growth  in the distilling and
baking industries which involve yeast consuming ethanol as a primary or
secondary substrate.   Danged little critters have the full genetic
mechanisms for gluconeogenesis from alcohol and glycerol too !

> The 5% loss in whisky making is interesting though.

Commercially important as well.   That info comes from "Distilled beverage
flavour : recent developments / edited by J.R. Piggott and A. Paterson 1989"
and I sadly don't have a copy handy.    There are other references to
delayed distillation causing economic inefficiency.

> Now what really catches my eye is the glycerol. That might be the answer
> (or part of the answer - I'm still convinced that evaporation has
> something to do with it).

I wouldn't disagree about the evaporation being part.
Here is an interesting EPA document which supplies figures
for ethanol as a VOC during whiskey fermentation.   Perhaps you
could 'ballpark'  barleywine losses from this.
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/chief/ap42/ch09/bgdocs/b9s12-3.pdf
182.2gmEtOH loss/m^3 in a 3-5 day fermentation, large open vats.

There are also a lot of papers that analyze fermenter headspace gasses
tho'I can't remember one w/ ethanol data.

>I always thought it interesting that the
> Germans converted their beer production facilities to the production of
> glycerine [...]

But you skipped  the "interesting" part !   In WW2 the Brits cut off German
supplies of glycerine(glycerol) for nitroglycerine and the Germans cut off
the supply of acetone also for explosives.   Germans used the yeast
fermentation process above to produce glycerine while the Brits & Allies
fermented wort w/ Clostridia to create acetone.  Killing each other is one
of mankind's cardinal achievements due to this sort of enthusiasm and
impressive ingenuity we applied to the task.  Make beer not war, I say  ....
but I digress.

 -S




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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:23:13 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: "Anheuser lager"?

Thanks to everyone who responded to my question about "Anheuser 
Lager."  There were too many to respond to individually.  Enough of 
them have cc'd HBD for the answer to be posted, so I won't repeat it.

I do wonder why the billboard read "Anheuser Lager" rather than 
"World Select."  Perhaps it was painted before the name was decided.

Years ago I said to a beer class I was teaching that it was obvious 
that A/B could make beer better than anyone else in the world, and it 
they decided to make PU, they could.  Sounds like they decided to 
make Heiniken instead.  Too bad.  I'll still look forward to tasting 
it.  Our daughter is flying here next month from LAX.  I'll ask here 
to pick up a fresh sixer.

Thanks again, all.  Great resource.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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