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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: No Spam and beer colture (NO Spam)
  Herbs, Tannins, Sanitation (Alexandre Enkerli)
  re: Pacific Ridge PA (was: re: Anheuser world select) (Robert Marshall)
  RE: Kegging equipment (Michael Hartsock)
  Re:La Folie (Robert Sandefer)
  College, kids, and drinking (Robert Sandefer)
  Qc Attitudes (Alexandre Enkerli)
  Re: Colour Software ("tOM Trottier")
  Pilsner glasses with a nucleation site ("tOM Trottier")


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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:31:42 -0400
From: NO Spam <nospam at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: No Spam and beer colture


Jim,

The discussion has been about binge drinking, and mainly
in the context of young adults or college kids, and how
they get their attitudes about alcohol and drinking.

There has been alot of comment about lifestyle, growing
up with alcohol, and how it has made a difference in
people's choices.

The previous poster stated that Canada doesn't have a
problem with binge drinking on their college campuses.
First, I'm not sure that's true.  He also stated
(incorrectly) that England has a problem with binge
drinking, but doesn't have heavy taxes or any kind
of prohibition.  He obviously doesn't know much about
the UK.

The discussion was NOT in the context of responsible adults
enjoying drinks (whatever drinks - beer, wine, mixed, other)
in their local establishments.  That is a whole 'nother topic.

I gathered people are talking about why binge drinking occurs
here more frequently than not on college campuses, once young
people get away from their families and out on their own.
The question is raised about lifestyles, parents attitudes,
local laws, exposure to alcohol, and how any of this matters.

So my remarks are in THAT context.  And yes, when you examine
college campus lifestyles in the US and look at the behavior
of these kids, you'll find beer, beer, and beer.  Maybe
some grain alcohol and harder stuff, but I think very little
wine.  And kids at that age are not conniseuers.  If they
pair alcoholic beverages with food, bet its pizza and french
fries.

Knowing that wine is bigger among the French Canadians, I simply
asked if that was a factor.

Please do not be offended, I am not slandering you, Texas,
or anybody or anyplace else.

bill



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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:22:05 -0400
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: Herbs, Tannins, Sanitation

Been thinking about gruits and herb beers. In fact, my dream would be 
to brew a complex liqueur-like beer, a bit of a Chartreuse or 
Benedictine idea. Saw a few references, including this one:
http://www.calferm.org/edu/misc/botanicals.htm
And this one, with some liqueur recipes:
http://www.homedistiller.org/liqueurs.htm

After doing some tea experiments with a few herbs (like gentian and 
agrimony), it's starting to look like the additions will follow a 
complete schedule from beginning of boil to bottling (with vodka-based 
"potions").
Might some herbs contain tannins? If so, are they only leached while 
boiling or is there a temperature range one should avoid to avoid the 
tannins? And are tannins that bad? With a gruit or herb beer, it seems 
tannins might simply add to the complexity. And with a very strong 
full-bodied beer, the astringency wouldn't be that prominent, would it?

Obviously, sanitation is a concern. So, again, what are the best 
procedures to sanitize such additions?
One possibility is to simmer with aromatic herbs after the boil. With 
an electric boiler, this could be as simple as maintaining the 
temperature in the right range. But what is that range? Aromatics are 
boiled off but would, say, 170F be a good temperature to keep the wort 
sanitized without actually boiling off the flavours?

Cheers!



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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:26:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Marshall <robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com>
Subject: re: Pacific Ridge PA (was: re: Anheuser world select)

I've had Pacific Ridge PA. Its not too bad. Think
Sierra Nevada PA knock-off.

In fact, rumor has it that you used to be able to see
the recipe posted for SNPA along their tour route.
That is until PRPA came out. The thought was that AB
actually took a photo of the recipe and took it home
to Fairfield, CA (local AB brewery).

Sure, I'd drink it again, but if its only a dollar
difference in price, I'm going for the SNPA.

Robert

- --------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:33:49 -0400
From: "Tom & Dana Karnowski" <karnowsk at esper.com>
Subject: Re: Anheuser world select

 ...What I find more interesting is "Pacific Ridge" (I
think?), which is an AB pale ale.  I saw it on their
web site and it said they only sell it in Western
states. Has anyone tried it?...


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:28:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Kegging equipment

Thanks to everyone who replied to my queiry.  There
are far to many to email individually.  But I just
thought I'd report, that I just bought a kegerator
from a garage sale this morning.  It came with four
nice tap handles, a 10 or 15# cylinder, a regulator,
built into a large refirgerator.  should hold 4
cornies.  (kegerator was made for 16 gal keg).  I also
talked him out of a 7 gallon primary bucket and a 6
gal carboy.  cost me $80.  Hope everything checks out!

Michael

=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."



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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 14:04:55 -0400
From: Robert Sandefer <melamor at vzavenue.net>
Subject: Re:La Folie

According to Jeff Sparrow's article "Getting Good and Sour: Conditioning 
Wood Barrels for Sour Beer Production" in Zymurgy Vol. 25 No. 5 
September/October 2002, La Folie is "sterile filtered" but unpasteurized. 
The beer is then bottled with sugar and wine yeast (pg. 32).

This seems to suggest culturing from the bottle will not be worth the 
effort. The above article seems well written, so anyone trying to replicate 
this beer would probably benefit from it.

I personally have no experience with this style--yet.

Robert Sandefer
Arlington,VA




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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:03:46 -0400
From: Robert Sandefer <melamor at vzavenue.net>
Subject: College, kids, and drinking

In the recent disucssion of kids and alcohol there have been numerous 
stereotypes about college students and alcohol consumption. While 
stereotypes have their usefulness, I believe it is important to remember 
they are still stereotypes and are at best guides and summaries of 
behavior.

Having escaped campus recently (2 years ago), I feel very secure of 
speaking of the diversity of drinking habits of "college students" (at 
least for the university I attended, which I feel is quite likely very 
average for the US).

Remember that the number of college students is in the millions. That's a 
lot of people to be lumping together for any reason.

Does binge drinking occur on campuses (whatever definition of binge 
drinking you want to use)? Certainly. I have heard stories, which I have no 
reason to doubt, that would make any parent faint. I have read articles in 
the campus paper of alcohol poisoning. I have seen dorm mates literally 
stumbling into their rooms early in the morning and breaking things along 
the way. I have laughed at hungover classmates. I have heard of a sororiety 
(sp?), with underage members, renting out a bar for a weekend night just to 
get drunk. I have heard of "good" kids turn to drunkard partyers...or 
worse.

Are there students who drink to get drunk? Certainly. Just as there are 
mothers, and fathers, and priests, and politicians, and doctors...all 
drinking to get drunk. Are people drinking Coors, Miller, and Bud for 
taste? Egads, what a disgusting thought. I would rather never drink beer 
again than drink that swill, used in as insulting a meaning as possible :) 
Wine, cider, and mead are fine, thank you.

But these people are not in the majority. I have heard a lot more people 
saying things like, "Yeah, I'm going out to hang with a couple friends," "I 
don't really like alcohol," "I have to drive tonight so I'm going just to 
hang," "I'm the designated driver tonight," "We don't go out that much 
anymore," etc.

My point is that the irresponsibility of "college students" is often highly 
misrepresented, and it is worthwhile to remember not all children turn out 
as wild partyers. Some of us actually learn to drink responsibly without 
parental assistance (like me), and some of us actually wait until we're 21 
before we start drinking (like me).

There, I have avenged the honor of my generation. :)

Robert Sandefer
Arlington, VA


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Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:22:44 -0400
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: Qc Attitudes

Oops! I may have given the wrong impression about Quebec. Nah, we're 
not *that* European in attitude and Quebeckers as a whole don't usually 
drink red wine with their meals. And young people do get drunk, on 
occasion. It's just not a major thing. Binge drinking itself, the 
stereotype of shotguns in frat houses, I never saw here but it probably 
exists. And while we can get beer and "cheap" (but expensive!) wine at 
convenience stores everyday (before 11PM), people do buy a lot of beer 
when they get the money.
The SAQ (Qc's provincial liquor board) isn't very beer-friendly, 
though. At least not for real beer. They have an impressive selection 
of wine (heavily taxed) and they do carry Qc micros, but their import 
selection isn't impressive. Some brewers in fact make trips to Ontario 
just to get a better variety. And despite NAFTA, we don't even get 
Sierra Nevada or Sam Adams. AFAIK, even "Milwaukee's Best" is brewed in 
Canada.
The beer market as a whole is dominated by Molson and Labatt. They buy 
fridge in convenience and grocery stores, do exclusive deals with 
distributors and all but prevent micros from getting bigger. But I do 
*feel* there might be statistically more sophisticated/discriminating 
drinkers in Montreal than in most other places around North America 
(which, IMHO, holds true for coffee/espresso). Still, I've mostly been 
to places like IN, SC, VT, and MA...

About Scandinavia, I was obviously wrong. My impression was out of a 
very short trip during which I never really got a chance to mingle with 
the locals, contrary to my habits... ;-)

As for Switzerland, Thomas confirms what I thought. And, at least in 
French-speaking Switzerland, I felt alcohol was treated with enough 
respect without being a forbidden fruit. Still, this acquaintance from 
Geneva was quite amazed that patrons at the Saint-Sulpice (a Montreal 
bar with several patios) were drinking a fair deal without looking 
inebriated. At the same time, he was probably more impressed by the 
casual ambiance than by the lack of drunkenness.



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Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:19:17 -0400
From: "tOM Trottier" <Tom at Abacurial.com>
Subject: Re: Colour Software

On Saturday, July 26, 2003 at 0:01
Travis Dahl KE4VYZ <dahlt at umich.edu> wrote:

>    On the subject of color software, I think that anyone who believes that
> it is even meant to give an exact color needs to have their head examined.
> First off, I know that there is a lot of variation between different

You can get pretty close to accurate with ICC profiles and calibration of 
your scanner, camera, monitor and printer. See 
http://www.google.com/search?=icc+software+calibrate

If you're scanning labels, scan a standard color target at the same time.

tOM
- ---- Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur ----
   ,__ at 	tOM Trottier +1 613 860-6633 fax:+1-270-596-1042
 _-\_<,	758 Albert St.,Ottawa ON Canada K1R 7V8
(*)/'(*)		ICQ:57647974 N45.412 W75.714
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a 
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor 
safety." -- Benjamin Franklin
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too 
much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
 -Thomas Jefferson 1743-1826)



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Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 11:22:31 -0400
From: "tOM Trottier" <Tom at Abacurial.com>
Subject: Pilsner glasses with a nucleation site

Does anyone know where to get pilsner glasses, the inverted cone type, 
which have a nucleation site in the very middle of the bottom?

Brands? Canadian sellers?

Thanks, tOM
- ---- Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur ----
   ,__ at 	tOM Trottier +1 613 860-6633 fax:+1-270-596-1042
 _-\_<,	758 Albert St.,Ottawa ON Canada K1R 7V8
(*)/'(*)		ICQ:57647974 N45.412 W75.714
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a 
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor 
safety." -- Benjamin Franklin
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too 
much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
 -Thomas Jefferson 1743-1826)



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