HOMEBREW Digest #431 Mon 04 June 1990

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  This whole invert sugar thing (Eric Pepke)
  hops tea (more or less) (R_GELINA)
  Maryland and Virginia Microbrews (Robert Allen)
  invert sugar (Chip Hitchcock)
  more on Red Star (Chip Hitchcock)
  Invert Sugar (Lane_Molpus)
  Tastings of Ales and Lagers (John Mellby)
  Brewpubs in Colorado Springs? ("Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 - 603884[DTN264]-1503  01-Jun-1990 1812")
  Rubicon brewpub tour (cckweiss)
  help (BLCARR02)
  The Mill; judging wheat beer (CRF)
  bulging can (mage!lou)

Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Jun 1990 10:12:30 EDT From: PEPKE at scri1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) Subject: This whole invert sugar thing I'm really sorry I started this whole invert sugar thing. My original question was purely a pragmatic one--how to interpret the recipes of Dave Line. The goal is to replicate a particular flavor, not just get the least cidery or whatever, and getting the recipe right is a good first step. Fortunately, I did get one answer over Usenet. A gentleman has successfully made the Ruddles County recipe using American ingredients. For the invert sugar, he used sucrose heated with a little citric acid. He says the result tasted very much like the Ruddles he hand-imported back from England. That's good enough for me, and that's the procedure I'm going to follow. I will report on the results. Eric Pepke INTERNET: pepke at gw.scri.fsu.edu Supercomputer Computations Research Institute MFENET: pepke at fsu Florida State University SPAN: scri::pepke Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052 BITNET: pepke at fsu Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions. Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 90 11:07 EST From: <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET at mitvma.mit.edu> Subject: hops tea (more or less) I just want to recommend steeping (whole) hops for the last 1-3 minutes of the wort boil, actually, steep with the heat off. WOW what a flavor and aroma you can get! My last batch (a red-brown ale) has an incredible flowery and sweet start to it, that switches to nice bitterness from the boiling hops added at the beginning. What fun! I cannot imagine the need for ever dry-hopping....... Russ Gelinas R_GELINAS at UNHH.BITNET Return to table of contents
Date: Fri 01 Jun 90 11:31:07 From: bob at RAllen.wtp.contel.com (Robert Allen) Subject: Maryland and Virginia Microbrews A blind taste testing was held recently for microbrews from Maryland and Virginia. Scoring on a scale of 1 to 10 on the basis of color, head retention, hop aroma, inital taste, mouth feel and aftertaste The results were as follows: 373 Wild Goose Amber Wild Goose Brewery, Cambridge, MD 366 Dark Horse Winter Lager Virginia Brewing Co., Virginia Beach VA 363 Oxford Class Amber Glen Burnie, MD 349 Jefferson Blue Ridge Mt. Forrest, VA 326 Olde Heurich Washington DC (Pittsburgh) 301 Samual Middletons's Pale Ale Wild Goose Brewery, Cambridge, MD 265 Virginia Gold Cup Virginia Brewing Co. 253 St. Pauli Girl Germany 210 Budweiser USA 174 Thomas Point Light Wild Goose Brewery, Cambridge, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 90 11:28:00 EDT From: bob at wraith.wtp.contel.com (Robert L. Allen) ~r note Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 90 11:27:56 EDT From: ileaf!io!peoria!cjh at EDDIE.MIT.EDU (Chip Hitchcock) Subject: invert sugar > answer #2 (when pushed): It's sucrose (cane sugar) > that's been boiled with a little bit of > citric acid to convert the di-saccaride > to a mono-saccaride. This squares with Papazian, and with a note in Miller that yeasts eating table sugar need \\3// enzymes---one for glucose, one for fructose, and an "invertase" to break the sucrose into glucose and fructose for the other two to work on. Doing this reaction separately would give you a quicker fermentation, possibly giving fewer side-reactions (which you might or might not want). > Dan Fink at the AHA office (an arrogant young nerd who can tell you with > utter conviction that there is only one "right" way to brew beer): > > Invert sugar is just table sugar that has been boiled. Therefore, > when you use table sugar your are effectively using invert since you > boil it anyway. Not very likely. I don't remember the precise strength of the glucose-fructose bond, but I doubt that it will break, even at ~100 Celsius, without a catalyst. When 2 mono-saccharides are joined a molecule of water is released. To break this bond you have to put back the atoms that were squeezed out (i.e., "hydrolysis" (= "water breaking")); acid contributes loose ions which help pry the bond open. (Strong acids (sulfuric, hydrochloric) would also work, but might give additional reactions and might leave ions you don't want in your beer.) The principle is similar to electrolysis of water, which goes at a reasonable speed in slightly acidic water and \\very// slowly in neutral water. Making soap is the most common example of hydrolysis, except that you use alkali (base) as a wedge instead of acid. > Dave Line's books use outdated technology - use dry > malt extract instead since table sugar will give you a cidery taste. Has anyone ever found out just what byproduct(s) give(s) the cidery taste? In any case, if corn sugar (which is notorious for giving a cidery taste) is dextrose I wouldn't assume that glucose/fructose would give the same (mixture of) byproducts. Also, if you're trying to reproduce a particular beer you probably don't want to replace completely fermentable sugar with partially fermentable malt extract. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 90 11:43:53 EDT From: ileaf!io!peoria!cjh at EDDIE.MIT.EDU (Chip Hitchcock) Subject: more on Red Star The latest issue of the Wort Processors (Boston) newsletter gives results of a test done by Steve Stroud and Sherri Almeda; they created single-cell cultures from Red Star lager yeast and split a batch of lager wort five ways, pitching with four started cultures and one rehydrated packet of dry Red Star. Fermentation took 4 days for the dry and 6 for the cultures. In a blind testing everybody recognized the batch done from dry yeast ("smelly", "cidery", "thin", "phenolic" vs "clean", "sweet", "tea-like", "full-bodied" for the other four). The comments match the gravity measurements; OG 1.042, FG 1.008 for the dry, 1.019 (average) for the cultures. Stroud concludes that there is a contaminant in the dry yeast. (Note that if they got down to single cells the odds are 2:1 against picking up a bad cell even if the contaminant was 10% of the cell count---or could it be a trace nutrient that encourages different enzymes in the yeast?) He's trying another batch from the slurry of one of the single-cell batches on the possibility that a newly-culture batch isn't as active/attentuative as one that has been through some brewing cycles; results will be available in about a month. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 90 14:38:35 PDT From: Lane_Molpus at NeXT.COM Subject: Invert Sugar Sucrose is a disaccharide. Each molecule of sucrose is comprised of two monosaccharides, glucose and fructose, bound together. Inversion is a process whereby the bonds between the monosaccharides are broken, yielding a mixture of glucose and fructose (plus some water). The name "inversion" comes from the change in optical properties -- this has to do with bending beams of polarized light, and is complex and irrelevant. Inversion takes place in a numbers of ways. Acids (e.g., cream of tartar, lemon juice) can break down sucrose (and other polysaccharides), especially when heat is added. Yeast cells generate an enzyme called invertase, which accomplishes the same thing. This inversion is necessary, since yeast cannot ferment the sucrose directly. This allows fermentation of sucrose without much concern by the brewer, since the yeast takes care of the inversion for you (At least as far as conversion to alcohol is concerned. There are those who swear that fermented sucrose tastes different than fermented glucose.). Corn sugar is also a type of invert sugar; it's created by the acid hydrolysis of cornstarch into glucose. Cornstarch is a complex polysaccharide, consisting of long chains of glucose molecules. Heating it with an acid breaks the starches down into dextrose and water. Since glucose is often made by the inversion of corn starch, it is fair to call glucose invert sugar, although invert sugar can also mean a mixture of glucose and fructose. Fructose is a very sweet sugar (about 170% as sweet as sucrose), glucose less so (about 60% as sweet as sucrose, I think). Thus, a mixture of glucose and fructose will taste sweeter than pure glucose, but both will ferment into, for all practical purposes, the same amount of alcohol Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 90 16:32:41 CDT From: jmellby at ngstl1.csc.ti.com (John Mellby) Subject: Tastings of Ales and Lagers The Offical Mellby Beer-Tastings, year 3. This is the 19th and 20th such tasting stretching back over two years. The tastings, in reverse chronological order were of: Lagers Ales (CA and UK) Bochs Belgians + Samichlaus Misc. Lagers (including one Non-alcoholic) Ales, mainly American Misc. Oregon and Michigan (ok its weird, but this is where our last trips were) Available Ales (i.e. purchaseable in Dallas) Northern Beers (Northern US and Canadian) Belgian (and other odd European Beers) California Micro-beers Lagers, mostly American microbreweries Ales (an odd lot which turned out to be poor quality) Ales (Strong, including porters, stout) Mixed Lagers Ales Lagers Christmas and speciality beers Mixed (mostly ales) Lagers - ------ 5/31/90 Surprisingly several people liked to Coors a good deal, and several didn't giving it a score in the low end of the "good" range! JRM Roy Tim MikeG Paul Doug Tot Ave Maharaja 32 37 33 38 30 40 210 35 Coors 31 36 34 33 25 26 185 30.8 Jackson Hole 24 27 26 26 24 31 158 26.3 Samual Adams 41 37 38 45 38 35 234 39 Pacific Coast 27 34 25 26 27 34 173 28.8 Zele Dry 28 30 32 32 31 37 190 31.7 Munchener Nr1 40 34 39 35 38 186 37.2 Gold Coast 43 40 38 40 34 40 235 39.2 Maharaja, Associated Brewery, Bombay, India, Batch 546 Nice clear beer with kind of a fruity smell. Clean taste but a hint of something wrong - smokey/iodine taste. It made me thing of a Islay Scotch. A little metallic aftertaste. Thin body. Coors Extra Gold, Adolph Coors, Golden Colorado. OK, I admit it, I threw this one in and it didn't do badly. It was very cloudy which made people think it wasn't from the national brewers. It was thin, slightly oxidized (I don't know who left this bottle at my place or when), and maybe a little sulfur. Someone (I said I wouldn't mention Roy's name) said it was "clearly set above the standard American beers". Jackson Hole Draft, Grand Teton Brewery, Helena Mt. Just from the pretty label I hoped this was good, to no avail. We had a discussion over whether the aroma was buttery, or just bad. A light bad flavor. Samuel Adams, Boston Brewing Co. This had a nice beer/wort aroma. A beautiful head, unfortunately it has a SERIOUS collidal suspension of particles. Paul kept saying this was almost a pale ale, and it did have serious hops. Possibly light struck, but with a bitter taste, and long bitter aftertaste (maybe cardboardy). Pacific Coast Lager, Pacific Coast Brewing, Helena Montana (Montana is the Pacific Coast? I've obviously forgotten my geography!) The aroma was strange. We argued on caramel or toffee and finally decided it had a hint of Captain Crunch cereal (really!) It was oxidized with a sour aftertaste. One person liked the smell/taste and said it reminded him of Collin County Gold*. Ze'le' Dry, Zele Brewing Co., Prince George, British Columbia, Canada The particles in the beer looked like the Tholian energy web on the old Star Trek. It was a clean light beer. Some fruit (banannas) in the taste, but still good. Very good for a Dry beer! Munchener Nr. 1, Paulaner, Munich, Germany Slightly oxidized but very good! Tim thought it was skunky and didn't evaluate it, but the rest of us disagreed. It was strong malt aroma and taste, and Paul guessed it was from Munich before seeing the bottle. A long aftertaste, but not too hoppy. It was still obviously an old bottle with catty/oxidized aroma and taste, but still good. Gold Coast Lager, Pete's Brewing Co, Palo Alto, CA, Contract brewed by August Schell, in New Ulm, MN Slightly fizzy, but a clover/buttery aroma. A sweet and tart taste. Very good! * The Collin County Brewery is all but defunct. They haven't brewed since January and they have 3 kegs and a case of beer left. Anyone who wants a brewery for $25K + another $50K in a year should contact them in Plano, TX. Don and Mary Thompson are good people. Too bad they can't make a profit in Texas. Surviving the American Dream John R. Mellby Texas Instruments jmellby%ngstl1.ti.com P.O.Box 660246, MS 3645 Dallas Texas, 75266 (214)517-5370 (214)343-7585 **************************************************************** * "Virtually no one's allowed to vote...women, servants, * * chimpanzees (gestures to Baldrick)...even lords." * * * * "That's not true, Lord Nelson's got a vote." * * * * "He's got a boat, Baldrick." * * -- BlackAdder * **************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 90 15:13:51 PDT From: "Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 - 603884[DTN264]-1503 01-Jun-1990 1812" <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com> Subject: Brewpubs in Colorado Springs? I am traveling to the Springs next week. I don't see any listings in the "Master Brewpub List" for that locale. Does anyone know of any there? If not, what would be the closest, and how far is that anyway? Thanks...Gary P.S. I leave Tuesday early AM, (only found out today) so answers only help before that. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 90 15:56:59 -0700 From: cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu Subject: Rubicon brewpub tour The consensus seems to be that June 9 will be best for the Rubicon tour here in Sacramento. It will happen at 10:00 AM on Saturday June 9. Rubicon is at 2004 Capitol Avenue, Sacramento, CA 95814, phone 916-448-7032. I'll try to review the confirmations that came in and E-mail each separately, but I figured this global posting would be good insurance. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 90 23:57 EDT From: BLCARR02%ULKYVX.BITNET at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu Subject: help Hello there Homebrewers I am very interested in making some of my own homebrewed beer, can you tell me what I need to do to get started... Thanks in advance Rick Pickerell Blcarr02 University of Louisville Info. Science and data processing Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 90 08:00 EST From: CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU Subject: The Mill; judging wheat beer Hi there! Paul Emerson mentioned "The Mill" in dig #430. Yes, there is one here in Gainesville, and there's one in Tallahassee as well. The beer is geared towards the Bud crowd, it's true. It also tends to the hoppy side. Those things considered, it's not that bad. It is fresh beer, and while it's pretty wimpy by our standards it's better than Bud/Bud Lite/Mic/Mic Lite being all that's available on draft. The food's pretty good; I've taken my parents there twice. Their bakery is *outstanding*! Regarding the tendency for American judges to mis-judge wheat beers due to haziness combined with ignorance: is there anything to be done about this? If that framboise of mine turns out okay, and is finished in time, I've been seriously considering entering it in the AHA's upcoming wheat beer competition. Then, of course, there's the national competition. I'd hate to think be penalized because my brew *ought* to be a tad hazy! Suggestions? Yours in Carbonation, Cher "God save you from a bad neighbor and from a beginner on the fiddle." -- Italian proverb ============================================================================= Cheryl Feinstein INTERNET: CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU Univ. of Fla. BITNET: CRF at UFPINE Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 90 09:51:41 MDT From: hplabs!mage!lou Subject: bulging can IN HBD #430 Algis Korzonas writes: >I've got a buldging can of extract (from not brewing frequently >enough - no doubt!). Since it's going to be boiled anyway, I'm >not going to worry, but am I missing something? Should I at >least be concerned? By the way, it's Edme DMS and is about 1.5 >years old. Hey! Wasn't I the one who mentioned to Cher that >DMS has active enzymes? Couldn't those enzymes now be doing >something to buldge the can? I have a can of Alexander's Sun Country pale malt extract with a similar problem. The can has severly dented in shipping and some of the bulging is udoubtedly due to that however it has bulged even more in the two weeks I've had it. I suspect that the initial deformation of the can made further deformation easier. I don't think Alexander's has any enzymes so I doubt if that is the cause in your case. I still plan to use it but, yes, I'm a bit concerned about it. Louis Clark reply to: mage!lou at ncar.ucar.edu Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #431, 06/04/90 ************************************* -------
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 06/29/00, by HBD2HTML version 1.2 by K.F.L.
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96