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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: spent grains ("Jerry Zeidler")
  Re: Spent Grains ("Houseman, David L")
  Food safe silicone ("Jules Myers")
  Re:  Phosphoric acid (val.dan.morey)
  re: distiller's yeast (Robert Marshall)
  Sparging Help (Eric Starkey)
  First Post / Stuck Fermentation / `Safe' SG (Clayton Carter)
  Deuchars IPA (recipe)? (darrell.leavitt)
  Re: bitterness from decoction ("-S")
  RE: Why prime with DME? (Jonathan Royce)
  Re: Spent Grains (NO Spam)
  Tap handles ("Eric Tepe")
  Help with Temp Control ("Scott")


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Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 06:43:36 -0400
From: "Jerry Zeidler" <gjzeidler at suscom.net>
Subject: Re: spent grains

Dave Larsen asks the all-grainers what they do with their spent grains.

Although I don't use all of my spent grains this way, I have used them as
bedding in a bait box for nightcrawlers when going fishing. Only problem is
that you can't keep it very long before it gets mouldy.

Jerry Zeidler
Williamsport, PA



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Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 08:24:48 -0400 
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Re: Spent Grains

When I first started using specialty grains and partial mashes, I used the
spent grains to make great whole grain muffins.  I probably have the recipe
around here somewhere but since it was posted on HBD some years ago it may
be in the archives.  If you have a cow, horse, goat or sheep, the spent
grains can, and often is, fed to livestock.  A number brewpubs and micros
provide their spent grains to farmers.  Without livestock, and one can eat
only so many muffins, alas the spent grains now go into my compose bin.  I'm
glad that Dave reminded me that there had been a recipe for dog biscuits
made from the grains.  Now that I have a dog, this is a must.  My wife is
excited to make the biscuits.  A two-fer!!

Dave Houseman



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Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 08:59:14 -0500
From: "Jules Myers" <julesmyers at charter.net>
Subject: Food safe silicone

I've just completed the copper manifold for my Coleman mash/lauter tun.
Where the 1/2" copper pipe passes through the wall of the cooler to mate
up with the ball valve, it's snug....but as I'm concerned about some leakage
I'd like to seal that area with something. I've managed to find some
"aquarium
safe" silicone, but there's no mention of FDA. I'm guessing if it's good
enough
for fish, it's safe enough for me. Does anyone have any expertise on this
subject?

Many thanks, Jules Myers, Woodlawn, TN




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Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 09:20:08 -0500
From: val.dan.morey at juno.com
Subject: Re:  Phosphoric acid

Kevin asks about milk stone remover:

>Any application for this stuff in my brewery?  Its about 50% phosphoric
>acid, and 50% surfactants, dyes, and other.

I use milk stone remover periodically to clean my boiling vessel and
kegs.  I use about 20 cc and a gallon of water to clean my boiling
vessel.  You can wipe the beer stone out immediately.  To CIP my kegs I
use 20 cc, 5 gallons of water and soak overnight.  Rinse to remove any
residue surfacants.  I paid about $6 for a gallon.

Cheers,
Dan Morey
Club B.A.B.B.L.E.  http://hbd.org/babble/


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Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 09:49:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert Marshall <robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com>
Subject: re: distiller's yeast

On the Wyeast website they have this listed:

3347 Eau de Vie - (Water of Life)
A very good choice for alcohol tolerance and stuck
fermentations. Produces a very clean dry profile, low
ester and other volatile aromatics. 21% alcohol
tolerance. Cordials, Grappa, Barley Wine, Eau de Vie,
Single Malts. 

Whiskey is the adulterated pronunciation of "Woski"
which translates to Water of Life in Scotish. Perhaps
that's what you saw? This was listed under their Wine
yeasts.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/wprlist.htm

Robert

=====
Robert Marshall
N-NY Brewing Co.
(No, not northern NY, No-Name-Yet!)
Albany, CA
[2037.3, 274.5] Apparent Rennerian


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Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 15:38:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Starkey <ericox at yahoo.com>
Subject: Sparging Help

First off, I am farily new at brewing.  I have read
books and various posts but I still have some
questions on sparging.  The system I am using is 2
five gallon buckets, the first having the bottom
drilled to resemble a false bottom and the second
bucket having a spigot for draining (the first bucket
setting inside of the second).  My questions start
here.  How exactly am I supposed to sparge the grains.
 Do I recirclulate the grain tea through the grains? 
Do I separate the grains, then sparge them with the
clean sparge water and then add this back to the tea? 
If someone out there could walk me through this
process I would greatly appreciate it.  Many thanks
and happy brewing.

Eric Starkey
San Jose, ca



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Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 07:58:05 -0500
From: Clayton Carter <crcarter at cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: First Post / Stuck Fermentation / `Safe' SG


Hi All,

	This is my first post to the list, which I've found immensely
helpful (if a bit overwhelming sometimes).  Anyway, I'm in the Boston
area and my second batch is just winding up fermentation.  My first
was a True Brew pale ale kit it was really, REALLY good.  This time
I've made a brown ale that the brewshop had on record as `Down South
Brown Ale'.  I've had a really good time with both batchs and I think
that I'm going to upgrade to glass for my next batch.

	What I've found so impressive about homebrewing is that, no
matter how specific and technical the directions get about being sure
to do this or that, so long as everything's clean, it's really hard to
screw up the beer.  I used tap water in the first batch and fermented
it around 83F and it worked fine.  I did the same this time, but I
also had the top blow off the bucket (I guess I hadn't attached it as
tightly as I'd thought) during the night and had krausen all over the
table.  I tasted it last night and it seems to be coming along nicely.

	Anyway, my point is that I'm wondering if this batch is stuck
at the very end of the fermentation.  I don't think it is, but I
thought I'd ask.  I brewed and pitched on Wednesday and the airlock
was bubbling within an hour.  Like I said, the top blew that night,
but I did some minor cleaning and replaced the lid to see that the
airlock was still going quite vigorously (1-2 bubbles / second).  I'm
not worried about infection from this since I figure that there was a
good layer of foam on top to block any nasties initially, but also
becasue the yeast was outgassing so much that not too much air had a
chance to get in.  ANYWAY, bubbling has stopped now, and it's been
very sluggish for the few days leading up to yesterday.  Last night, I
sanitized a glass, popped the top and took an SG reading of around
1.025.  Big deal, right?  I thing the OG was around 1.058 or 60.  The
recipe doesn't give OG or FG, but it does explicitly say -- and this
is what gives me pause -- that the beer isn't safe to bottle until the
SG is below 1.020.

	My common sense says to go ahead and bottle, but I thought I'd
ask you folks.  I'm about 95% certain that fermentation really has
completed, but that stinking line in the recipe about the 1.020 figure
has me worried.

	Thanks so much.

Happy Brewing,
Clayton

- -- 
Clayton Carter   crcarter at cs dot indiana dot edu


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Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 09:11:02 -0400
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Deuchars IPA (recipe)?

My wife and I were lucky to arrive in London in early August and attend 
the GBBF.  My wife really likes the Deuchars IPA, so I may attempt to brew 
a clone.  Does anyone have a recipe that comes close?

Happy Brewing!
 ..Darrell




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Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 10:15:52 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: bitterness from decoction

Marc Sedam notes,

> [...] why a decocted
> beer might be less bitter and I had a thought.  I think there is
> agreement that decocting a beer puts more tannins in the wort INITIALLY.
>  But these tannins get bound with other proteins in the wort and settle
> out during the lagering process so that the final amount of tannins is
> not presumptively different than in a non-decocted beer.
>
> Could the alpha acids be precipitating out with the protein-tannin
> complex in the decocted beer?[...]

This conjecture correlates with a note in M&BS that decocted wort contains
more oxidizable and less oxidized polyphenols then infusion wort.  Oxidized
polyphenols are more likely to bind and end up in the break; oxidizable
polyphenols are largely anti-oxidants - waiting to become oxidized then
bind.   The boil nearly clears he wort of oxidized polyphenols.   Same for
the decoction boil.  .  The factoids that I am not certain about is ... does
post boil decoction wort really contain more tannins(tannoids) than infusion
wort ?  I *suspect* this is true.  Then there is the question - does
lagering sediment significantly trap humulones or other bitter principles ?
Lagering certainly makes the beer smoother and (my guess) less harshly
phenolic.

I also have some doubts about the idea that decocted beers generally have
reduced bitterness for a given hopping schedule.    What does the collective
think ?   Is everyone seeing that it requires more hops to achieve a given
IBU level in a decocted beer ?   Obviously the lagering and general style
considerations mean that lagered beers usually lack the full aromatics of
hops and the very high IBUs of many ales.

The principles of controlling hoppiness and bitterness are obvious, but in
practice all the rules and detailed hopping formulae are nearly useless
since minor variations in the strength of the boil, and the freshness of the
hops will swamp any calculation.  I suspect that getting beer IBUs w/in 10%
of target is an achievement.  Last year, after moving, I made a series of
beers where each was a notch more bitter than expected.    I started to
suspect my new water supply or some other factor in my HBrewery was to
blame.   Then just as suddenly the problem ceased.  Perhaps a couple bags of
hops were fresher then usual of my nat.gas burner pressure a bit higher.
Hops can lose 10% of their humulones (not total bitterness ) in a month of
mediocre storage!

Good thought Marc,
 -Steve

Would somebody PULEEZE add an address mangler
to HBD.  I now get 75% spam on this HBD-only address.




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Date: Sun,  7 Sep 2003 07:28:46 -0700
From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan at woodburybrewingco.com>
Subject: RE: Why prime with DME?

Joe Berardino asked about why one would prime with DME over corn sugar. 

First, I will note that this post is being written while wearing my flame-
retardant suit, so I'm prepared.

Anyway, my answers is: I can't think of any good reason. I primed a batch of 
cream ale earlier this year with DME and the results were unimpressive. I 
believe Papazian mentions somewhere that (anecdotally) DME produces finer 
bubbles than corn sugar, but in my case it produced no bubbles at all. The 
entire batch was undercarbonated and while the flavor of the beer was great, I 
fizz. (It was basically flat). I also ended up with a lot of sediment in every 
bottle, which I also suspect is due to DME.

In all fairness, the carbonation probably would have been okay, had I chosen 
to use WEIGHT rather than VOLUME as the method of measuring the priming 
medium. That said, my advice (other than using corn sugar and restricting DME 
to wort) is to forget the 1 1/4 cup measurement recommended by your book and 
to use HBD's recipator to calculate a weight of DME to use for priming. This 
would likely produce much better results.

http://hbd.org/recipator

Hope that helps and (as always) happy brewing,
Jonathan
Woodbury Brewing Co.
www.woodburybrewingco.com


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Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 17:24:54 -0400
From: NO Spam <nospam at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Spent Grains


Perfect timing on this one, I was about to post the same
question.  How do the rest of you city guys get rid of
this stuff???

I've found that even if I put the grains in a plastic
garbage bag, put that inside of another plastic garbage
bag, put that in a paper bag, then put that inside another
plastic garbage bag, this stuff still leaks all over the
place, right through the bags.  I have no idea how.

It makes a mess.  Now I live in a development where we have
an association and rules, and you can't just leave trash out
anywhere or any time.  And I wouldn't with this stuff, anyhow.
It leaks all over, and the stuff stains concrete!

I don't want to hold this in my garage again, I already have a
huge stain on the concrete floor from the last batch.  I've
scrubbed it hard, and alot of it won't come up.  And keeping
it in the garage for up to week, (my garage is not air-
conditioned, I don't know about yours) well, let's say it
doesn't smell great, either.

I have tried the garbage disposal before, but 10 lbs or more
of grain is alot for that to handle.  It puts alot of stress
on the motor.  Mine kicked off 2 or 3 times during the grinding,
and had to be reset each time.  I'm afraid to try that again,
because I'm afraid that one of these times, it won't come back
on.  And that would s**k if it happened with a drain full of
spent grain!

I have been setting it out in the grass until trash day, but
I'm not going not get away with that for long.  I'm just
waiting for someone from the association to complain.

During the summer, I imagine it would be great compost for the
garden.  But during the winter?  I don't know.

What's the best way to store spent grain til trash day without
having it leak all over and stain and stink up everything?  Or
is there an even better way to get rid of it?

I'm not going to drive it and leave it on someone else's property,
either.  That's just wrong.

Bill



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Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 18:30:31 -0400
From: "Eric Tepe" <erictepe at insightbb.com>
Subject: Tap handles

Hi All,

Some time ago in either Brewing Techniques or Zymurgy there was an article
printed about making your own tap handles out of some type of clear acrylic
resin. I was wondering if someone could point me in the direction of the
article because I could swear I had it but I can't find it. If anyone has
any tips as far as fabricating tap handles please let me know. I woule like
to print some graphics up for my beers and then put them into the tap handle

ManyThanks,

Eric Tepe



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Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 18:43:46 -0700
From: "Scott" <sejose at pacbell.net>
Subject: Help with Temp Control

Hi

I've been using an old electric blanket and a Johnson controller on my
ferment fridge to control temperature accurately.  But now I have a couple
waterbed heaters which would be better than the old blanket, except for one
small thing.  This is where I need help.  The controller for the waterbed
heater starts at 70 degrees F and goes to 100.  I need to modify the guts so
that the controller will work from say 50 or 60 (or whatever I need) instead
of the 70 degrees.  I am not familiar with electronics such as are inside
this controller, but if someone smarter than me can help me, I can figure it
out.  Can it be as simple as installing a resistor (or something) inline
somewhere to affect this shift of temp control?

Thanks for any input and help.

Never too old to learn a new trick....

Scott in Auburn, CA



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