---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Saving Yeast Slurry (techentin)
  RE: vanilla beans (spencer)
  Bottling (Mark.Nevar)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #435 (June 08, 1990) (Andrew Hudson)
  Re: Siphoning and bottle filling (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Siphoning and Bottle Filling (Rick Noah Zucker)
  Southern Ontario Brewing Clubs (Rob McDonald)
  Chlorine bleach (Jeff Benson)
  cheap keg, vanilla beans and steeping grains (Marty Albini)
  Subjectivity of Judging (Jay H)
  bottle filling (mage!lou)
  Siphoning and Bottle Filling (jonm)
  bottle filling (mage!lou)
  Re: Siphoning and Bottle Filling (Buz Owen)
  Dry Hop vs Kettle Hop (Dave Suurballe)
  lengthy postings (John Treacy)
  caragheen to get clean (cckweiss)
  hazy followup (cckweiss)
  hot vs cold bleach (Chip Hitchcock)
  run-offs (Chip Hitchcock)


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Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Jun 90 08:37:07 CDT
From: techentin at Mayo.edu
Subject: Saving Yeast Slurry

To my understanding, there are two ways to save (expensive liquid) yeast 
for reuse in another batch:

	1.  Freeze the slurry after adding 10 percent food grade
	    glycerine.  (which acts as antifreeze?)

	2.  Put the slurry in a bottle with air lock and store in the
	    fridge for (up to) a few weeks.

I did both of these.  The slurry in the freezer never did freeze.  It 
even had the audacity to leak out of the freezer container when it was 
moved to make room for a chicken.  The bottle in the fridge tipped over 
and spilled.

I tried another method, but I have been wondering about it's soundness.  
All the talk about re-cultering from the dregs at the bottom of a bottle 
of various famous ales led me think of just bottling the slurry.  I got 
four bottles of trub - two are in the basement, and two are at the back 
of the fridge.

The bottles are (supposedly) sanitary, and they should contain nothing 
but dormant yeast and a little wort.  My intention is to create a 
starter from one of these bottles shortly before brewing.

Can anybody think of any reason this won't work?  Is refridgeration 
necessary?  How long should I expect the dormant yeast to remain viable? 
Come to thinkg of it:  is the goop I bottled really dormant yeast, or is 
it dead stuff that I don't really want to re-culture?

Thanks for any input.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Techentin                              Internet: techentin at Mayo.edu
Mayo Foundation, Rochester MN, 55905 USA             (507) 284-2702
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date:  Fri, 8 Jun 90 10:57:45 -0400
From: spencer at zip.eecs.umich.edu
Subject: RE: vanilla beans

I wouldn't boil the vanilla beans.  All the (not beer) recipes I have
seen always have you add the vanilla after all boiling is over.  I
think the problem is that the aromatics will get boiled off.

=Spencer (spencer at eecs.umich.edu)

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Date: Fri, 8 Jun 90 09:20:14 mdt
From: Mark.Nevar at hp-lsd.cos.hp.com
Subject: Bottling

Here is my simple, but effective procedure:

I rack into my 7 gallon plastic primary that has a spigot attached on the
side, near the bottom.  To this I attach a 7" piece of plastic tubing that
I sanitize by boiling.  I place the primary on top of my dishwasher with
the tubing hanging over the edge.  The tubing just reaches the bottom of the
bottle.  The start-stop action of the spigot is a dream. NO MESS!!

I also use this procedure when racking from my primary to my secondary,
but replace the 7" piece with a 3' racking tube.  This eliminates 2 out
of 3 times I have to start a siphon.

Note: To do this, the spigot must be attached above the sludge line on your
      primary.

Mark Nevar



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Date: Fri, 8 Jun 90 11:59:40 -0400
From: abh0 at gte.com (Andrew Hudson)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #435 (June 08, 1990)

PLease remove me from the list. I am moving to maine.

 - Andrew Hudson

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Date: Fri, 8 Jun 90 11:11:16 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: Siphoning and bottle filling

Paul Bigelow writes:

>The top end of the siphon hose is always guaranteed
>to slither out of the pail part way through the bottling operation,
>in spite of (often unsanitary) attempts to tape the hose down.

I suggest using a racking tube. It's made of hard plastic, is
shaped like a cane, and mine has an orange plastic stand-off to
suck from about 3/4" above the bottom of the fermenter (to leave
the trub behind).

Regarding an alternative to bottling (which I hate also), how about
kegging?  That's what I plan to do as soon as I get settled in my
new house.

Al.


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Date: Fri, 8 Jun 90 10:16:14 -0700
From: noah at cs.washington.edu (Rick Noah Zucker)
Subject: Siphoning and Bottle Filling

>From: Paul Bigelow <bigelow at hppad>
>Subject: Siphoning and Bottle Filling
>
>The weakness in my production line is bottle filling. Has anyone found
>a really good technique or equipment?
>
>I have a spring loaded bottle filler tube that attaches to the end of
>my siphon hose, but it is way too slow (insufficient flow). If I just use
>the siphon hose and clamp it by bending the tube, I get a small flood of
>beer on the floor. The last few inches of the tube below the clamping point
>that go down into the bottle always release their contents when the tube is
>inbetween bottles. The top end of the siphon hose is always guaranteed
>to slither out of the pail part way through the bottling operation,
>in spite of (often unsanitary) attempts to tape the hose down.
>
>Paul Bigelow [who has permanently sticky floors]  bigelow at hppad.hp.com

I have just started using a spigot, and it works great.  I got the spigot
from my local supplier.  I simply drilled a whole in bottom of my plastic
primary fermenter and put the spigot on.  It came with a short length of
hose so that the beer does not get aerated when I bottle it.  However, I
can attach a long hose to it for transfering from primary to secondary.

							Rick Zucker

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Date: 	Thu, 7 Jun 1990 08:34:46 -0400
From: Rob McDonald <hplabs!gatech!maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca!rob>
Subject: Southern Ontario Brewing Clubs

I have been reading and (hopefully) learning quite a bit from this mailing
list for about six months now.  We seem to have the best signal/noise
ratio I have encountered on the net.

Can anybody point me to a homebrewing club in the Burlington, Ontario area?
Anything within 80 km would be of interest (ie I'll go to Toronto if I
have to).
.....rob

EMAIL:   rob at maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca  <<< Standard Disclaimers Apply >>>
ARCHAIC: Steltech, 1375 Kerns Rd., Burlington, Ontario, Canada, L7P 3H8.

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Date: Fri, 8 Jun 90 14:48:48 CDT
From: Jeff Benson <benson at chemsun.chem.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Chlorine bleach

Ken Schriner writes in HB #435:

> I had a question about the technique
> used for sterilizing (not a criticism, just a question.)  Algis mentioned
> using hot water for the bleach solution.  I use cold water.  I believe
> I remember reading something about an undesirable chemical reaction
> if hot water was used.  Is cold OK?  Is hot better?

Not to worry, Ken, mixing chlorine bleach with hot water won't result
in any dangerous chemical reactions and blow up your brewing room.
On the other hand, using hot water *will* increase the concentration of
chlorine in the atmosphere near your santizing solution and that *can*
be a definite health hazard.  One should always use chlorine bleach in a
well-ventilated area; chlorine does nasty things to your lungs.  

At the risk of boring some folks, here's a little more detail about
what's going on.  Chlorine bleach is a solution of sodium hypochlorite
(the formula's irrelevant), which when mixed with water reacts to form
a small amount of sodium hydroxide (lye) and chlorine dissolved in water.
Because chlorine is a gas at room temp., it tends to evaporate from the
water, giving the characteristic smell of bleach.  Heating the water will 
push the equilibrium towards chlorine gas, hence stronger smell.  So be
careful out there in those stuffy kitchens and tiny, closeted brewing
rooms!!  If you must pass out, do it from too many homebrews, not from
snorting chlorine.

************************************************************************
Jeff Benson                                 benson at chemsun.chem.umn.edu
Univ. of Minnesota, Dept. of Chemistry
Minneapolis, MN  55455

  "As a known scientist, I'd be surprised if she blinded *me* with
   Science"  -- Thomas Dolby
*************************************************************************


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Date: Fri, 8 Jun 90 13:14:58 PDT
From: Marty Albini <martya at hpsdl39.sdd.hp.com>
Subject: cheap keg, vanilla beans and steeping grains

	Various people have posted that they have found a
cheap source of kegs by buying them from soda distributors. I
called every soda distributor in San Diego county and couldn't
find one willing to part with a keg.

	If you have such a source, and want to make a couple
bucks, email me and let me know how many of what type you can 
get at what price. If you're on the same continent I am, I 
will pay shipping costs and throw in a finder's fee (or make 
you a case of brew, but you'll have to take it in bottles!).

	If you have a cheap source of 2-3 gal kegs, the above
goes double!

	A footnote: "cheap" is defined as being significantly
cheaper than what I have to pay here. A new five gal keg is
~$60, three gal ~$55. I can get used five gals for $45 from
the local homebrew shop, but they usually take ~$5 in new
gaskets, so it's not worth the trouble. $10 kegs would make me
a happy brewer!

	On the subject of vanilla beans--when cooking with
vanilla, the later you add it the stronger the taste. Either
aromatics get driven off by heat, or the stuff breaks down, or
something. Commercial vanilla extract is ~30% alcohol; maybe
the flavors are extracted with it rather than heat.

	Probably the best way to get the flavor into your beer
is to add extract to it right before bottling. You can
determine the proper amount by adding some to a known volume
of un-vanilla'd brew to taste, and scaling up.

	On steeping grains--lately I've given up on using my
grain bags. They're too small, and when the grain swells, the
extraction efficiency decreases as kernals pack together, like
too much tea in a tea strainer. I now make a poridge in a small 
pot, filter into my brew kettle, and sparge with boiling mater. 
Seems to work a lot better.
- --
________________________________________________Marty Albini___________
"To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks."
phone    : (619) 592-4177
UUCP     : {hplabs|nosc|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!martya
Internet : martya at sdd.hp.com (or  at nosc.mil,  at ucsd.edu)
CSNET    : martya%hp-sdd at hplabs.csnet
US mail  : Hewlett-Packard Co., 16399 W. Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA

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Date: 08 Jun 90 14:45:15 EDT
From: Jay H <75140.350 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Subjectivity of Judging

A lot of people have read what they wanted to read into my original
message. Points to make (I'll be brief)

1) Beer judging is and will remain pretty subjective no matter how
well trained the judge (I have seen this first hand at many competitions)
Therefore individual judges scores and notes only make sense if you
know the judges tastes

2) I never said anything about brewpub discussions.

I'm still looking for cost info on cornelius kegs, I know there are
keg brewers out there.

 - Jay H


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Date: Fri, 8 Jun 90 15:25:09 MDT
From: hplabs!mage!lou
Subject: bottle filling

In HBD #434 Fred Condo writes:

>I use a large (7 gallon) plastic fermenter, which I sanitize by filling it with
>dilute bleach as recommended in "Brewing Quality Beers" by Byron Burch. To
>sanitize the lid, I have been jamming the lid in sideways, so it is about half
>covered in the sanitizing solution; this temporarily distorts the fermenter a
>bit. While my wort is boiling, I rotate the lid at intervals, so the whole lid
>gets sanitized.

>Well, I just noticed that this is not such a good idea, because the lid's lip
>is stiff and sharp enough to have thoroughly scored the interior of my
>fermenter, leaving scratches where bacteria could hide. So far, I have not had
>any problems with infections, but, to keep from further damaging my fermenter,
>I will be using sterilant-soaked towels to sanitize my lid.

Fred, do you have some other container for sanitizing other equipment (siphon
hoses, bottles, etc.)?  If so, you can use it for sanitizing your lid.  One side
of a double sink works well also.

The trouble with using sterilant soaked towels is that a bleach solution should
remain in contact with the surface for 15-30 min. to be effective.  Given the
shape of a fermenter lid, keeping the towels in contact with all the critical
surfaces could be a real problem.  A better way to go is to thoroughly swab all
the important areas with a mixture of 70% Everclear with water.  This works
much faster than the chlorine bleach and so just thoroughly wiping it down is
sufficient.  It also evaporates much faster and you don't have to worry about
chlorine tastes in your beer.

I have successfully removed scratches from hard food grade plastic (racking
tube) using successively finer grades of sandpaper - essentially the same
process as in wood finishing.  I don't know how this would work with the softer
plastic used in fermenters.  You might try it on the outside first to see if it
works.

>Speaking of Byron Burch, his book has been a generally excellent guide for me,
>but there is one thing that is terribly wrong with it. It says that any black
>grain used as a color adjunct can be added directly to your boil about halfway
>through. I did this and ended up with a brown ale that, at bottling time,
>tasted like burnt steak (I kid you not). I bottled it anyway to see if the
>taste will disappear with time. My local homebrew store proprietor, Don
>Siechert, however, advises making an infusion of the black grains by straining
>them through a coffee filter. I haven't tried this yet, but it sounds like a
>good idea.

I make a "tea" out of the grains by adding boiling water to them and steeping
for 20-30 min.  I then strain this into the brewpot and sparge.  Some small
particles will get through the strainer but not enough to cause problems.

Louis Clark
reply to: mage!lou at ncar.ucar.edu


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Date: Fri Jun  8 14:01:33 1990
From: microsoft!jonm at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Siphoning and Bottle Filling

Paul Bigelow mentions a spring-loaded bottle filler being too slow ...

Have you tried pressing down lightly?  Mine is very slow when I press
hard, and fastest when I press very lightly.  Or maybe the spring isn't
pushing hard enough, and needs to be stretched a little.

Jonathan Mark					uunet!microsoft!jonm


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Date: Fri, 8 Jun 90 15:30:11 MDT
From: hplabs!mage!lou
Subject: bottle filling

I apologize for the fumble fingers on my last posting which caused a
duplicate :^(.  What I meant to post was

In HBD #435 Paul Biglow writes:

>The weakness in my production line is bottle filling. Has anyone found
>a really good technique or equipment?

>I have a spring loaded bottle filler tube that attaches to the end of
>my siphon hose, but it is way too slow (insufficient flow). If I just use
>the siphon hose and clamp it by bending the tube, I get a small flood of
>beer on the floor. The last few inches of the tube below the clamping point
>that go down into the bottle always release their contents when the tube is
>inbetween bottles. The top end of the siphon hose is always guaranteed
>to slither out of the pail part way through the bottling operation,
>in spite of (often unsanitary) attempts to tape the hose down.

Paul; first get a racking tube from your local homebrewing supplier (~$2-3).
This is a J shaped piece of food grade plastic tubing.  On the long side of the
J is a plastic piece that hold the end of the tube off the floor of your
fermenter or pail or whatever so that sediments are left behind.  Your flexible
hose attaches to the short side of the J.  You can also purchase a clip for the
racking tube (~$1-1.50) which will keep it relatively steady in the pail and at
a constant depth if you want it higher than the afore mentioned plastic will
provide.  This will eliminate your problems with the hose slithering out of the
pail.

I also use a spring loaded bottle filler tube.  I just timed it and it takes 13
seconds to fill a 12 oz. bottle.  Once beer is flowing into the bottle I have
~12 seconds of holding the tube in place that does not require any attention.
I use this time to move the last bottle over to the capping area and getting
the next empty one and draining the remaining rinse water out.  This leaves me
with about 2 seconds/bottle that aren't spent on something else that I would
have to do anyway.  The way I figure it, the overhead of filling a bottle is
just 2-3 seconds as opposed to the 5-10 seconds using just the hose and
clamping it and I don't make a mess of the floor.  I agree that I'd like to
find a still better method (kegging flames > /dev/null) but I certainly think
that the filler tube is better than the straight hose.

################

and Max Newman writes:

>I just brewed my first recipes using specialty grains (Charlie P.
>steam beer and I.P.A) and have noticed for the first time a haze
>in my beer. Would using a grain bag possibly help? Maybe irish moss?
>This is the best tasting brew I've made to date, but I'd like it to
>look a little nicer.

Specialty grains introduce tannins which will react with proteins in the malt
to cause haze.  Any basic brewing book will describe several additives
(including Irish Moss) that will remove either tannins or proteins to reduce
haze.  (c.f. TCJoHB, pp.95-97).

Louis Clark
reply to:  mage!lou at ncar.ucar.edu


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Date: Fri, 08 Jun 90 17:56:55 -0400
From: Buz Owen <ado at BBN.COM>
Subject: Re: Siphoning and Bottle Filling

Paul Bigelow [who has permanently sticky floors] writes:

>The weakness in my production line is bottle filling. Has anyone
>found a really good technique or equipment?

>I have a spring loaded bottle filler tube that attaches to the end of
>my siphon hose, but it is way too slow (insufficient flow). If I just
>use the siphon hose and clamp it by bending the tube, I get a small
>flood of beer on the floor. The last few inches of the tube below the
>clamping point that go down into the bottle always release their
>contents when the tube is in between bottles. The top end of the
>siphon hose is always guaranteed to slither out of the pail part way
>through the bottling operation, in spite of (often unsanitary)
>attempts to tape the hose down.
 
A secondary fermenter with a tap on the side near the the bottom
solves the problem of the syphon tube falling out of the fermenter.
You don't have to start a syphon with your mouth, and with everything
secure, you can put your primary well above the level of your filling
operation.

I got my fermenter from the Williams Brewing mail order catalog.  The
plastic spigot mechanism can be removed and cleaned as necessary,
reattaches easily and doesn't leak if tightened properly.  Standard
size plastic siphoning hose attaches to the spigot.  Using the spigot
with a short plastic tube wasn't very satisfactory (but was fast) so I
use the same type of spring loaded filler tube you do, at the other
end of a long hose.  Using the filler tube stops most filling
overruns, and although it is a bit slow, if it were faster, I would
overrun more, so its a compromise.  My main complaint with the spring
loaded filler tube is that bottles have a convex bottom on the inside
and the filler tube often slips over toward the side of the bottle
where the activator button at the end of the tube gets released,
interrupting the fill.  I set bottles in a plastic dishwashing basin
while filling to catch the rest of the sloshes.

Buz [who has mostly unsticky floors]

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Date: Fri, 8 Jun 90 16:43:22 PDT
From: hsfmsh.UUCP!suurb at cgl.ucsf.EDU (Dave Suurballe)
Subject: Dry Hop vs Kettle Hop

On Friday, Russ Gelinas recommended steeping hops for 1-3 minutes to get
good hop flavor and aroma and that because of his success with this method
he cannot imagine the need for dry hopping.

I kind of agree.  I like hops a lot, and I have always wanted to try dry-
hopping, but I get good success using his technique, and I haven't yet
gone to the trouble of dry-hopping a batch.

I do have a suspicion about the need for dry-hopping which I would like
to share with the Readership, but it is only a suspicion.  

I suspect that large commercial brewers simply cannot steep hops for 1-3
minutes, so to get the flavor and aroma we get that way, they must dry-hop
instead.  Remember that we empty our kettles pretty quick (they only hold
5 or 10 gallons), and a large kettle (many barrels) empties much slower, maybe
more than an hour.  That means their hops are steeping not for 1-3 minutes,
but for over an hour, or way over an hour, and that means they are
contributing to bitterness more than aroma and flavor.

This brings up a slightly picky point about the 1-3 minute steep.  I
haven't seen Russ brew, so I don't know what he does, but my "1-3 minute
steep" is misleading.  What I really do is turn off the flame, throw in the
hops, wait 2 minutes, and start siphoning the wort through the chiller.
That process takes about a half-hour.  So how long are the hops steeping
really?  Some of the wort has the hops in it for only 2 minutes
(that's the first wort through the chiller), but some of the wort has
the hops steeping for a half-hour (the last wort through the chiller).
The rest is obviously somewhere inbetween.  So is this a two-minute
steep, a half-hour steep, or a fifteen-minute steep, or what?

But back to the subject.  The local brewpub empties their 200-gallon kettle
in over an hour.  Obviously they cannot steep hops for 1-3 minutes under
those conditions.  And if we assume for the sake of the argument that
to get good hop aroma and flavor, you must steep hops for up to half an
hour, they cannot do that either.  

In summary, I suspect that dry-hopping may not be the best way to get good
hop flavor and aroma;  maybe it is the only the second best way, but 
large breweries are forced to take that route because the best way is not
available to them simply because of how long it takes to strike the kettle.

I want to stress here that I haven't compared the two methods and found
one superior.  In fact I have never tried one of the methods.  I have
merely noticed that one of the methods is not available to large brewers,
and therefore, they, too, have not compared the two methods and found
one superior.

Only we tiny brewers can compare them.  Has anyone done this?


Suurb

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Date: Fri, 8 Jun 90 20:08:36 PDT
From: treacy at Eng.Sun.COM (John Treacy)
Subject: lengthy postings


Ever notice how a suggestion that someone not post something
generates more bytes in response than the original long postings
would have ?

Oops, now I've gone and contributed to it as well.
Sorry abou that,

John

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Date: Fri, 8 Jun 90 21:53:19 -0700
From: cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu
Subject: caragheen to get clean


Max Newman was asking about the efficacy of Irish Moss as a clarifying agent
when using grain adjuncts in intermediate extract brewing.

Though I've seen postings to the contrary (from Florian B. if I recall correctly)
I saw a *marked* improvement in clarity when I began adding Irish moss during the
last 5-10 minutes of boil. I don't know if it's a factor or not, but I also skim
off the scum that forms on the surface of the boiling wort when the Irish moss is
added.

Thanks to all who responded to my query on a pale ale ginger brew. I'll ease up on
the crystal, and cook it this weekend, if the temp gets under 100. Why exactly did
I move to Sacramento???

Now for the silly question of the week. Anyone got a clue as to why I got beer with
good carbonation, but no head retention at all? It's like, if I pour out the beer
with extra effort to produce splash and head, I get a *really* huge head on it, but in
five minutes, it looks like there's no carbonation at all. There is, though. Agitation
brings up a head again. It's as if the CO2 is there, but is unwilling to come out of
solution at ambient pressure. I don't think it's a detergent residue issue, since I
used to get a nice head on my beer, and I haven't changed any of my routines lately.
Oh well, it still tastes just like beer to me...

Ken Weiss
krweiss at ucdavis.edu
cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu

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Date: Sat, 9 Jun 90 13:18:38 -0700
From: cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu
Subject: hazy followup


Re Max Newman's Irish Moss haze question, I realized that I forgot to mention
that the cloudiness I experienced was a true chillhaze. The beer was quite clear
when warm, and turned hazy when chilled. That's what the Irish moss seemed to help
with. If your beer's never clearing in the bottle, even before you chill it, I 
don't think moss will help. Maybe the grain got milled a little too fine or something.
If it tastes like beer, I'd advise you to drink it. If it doesn't taste like beer
I'd advise you to drink some other beer. If you can't tell whether or not it tastes
like beer, you've probably had enough.

I'd like to add my kudos to Algis Korzonas for his posting on getting started. I
sent a private message to the person looking for elementary advice, but mine was
nowhere near as complete, thorough, accurate, or well-written as Algis' submission.
Way to go, dude! Sure hope it didn't cost Jay H too many precious compuserve seconds
as it paged past his screen.

Ken Weiss
krweiss at ucdavis.edu
cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu

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Date: Fri, 8 Jun 90 11:34:02 EDT
From: ileaf!io!peoria!cjh at EDDIE.MIT.EDU (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: hot vs cold bleach

> used for sterilizing (not a criticism, just a question.)  Algis mentioned
> using hot water for the bleach solution.  I use cold water.  I believe
> I remember reading something about an undesirable chemical reaction
> if hot water was used.  Is cold OK?  Is hot better?

   I worked two summers as a lifeguard at pools which used a concentrated
sodium hypochlorite (=bleach) solution, dripped into the return from the
filter, as a chlorine source. We were taught that (aside from the effects of
more people in the pool) a warm day would require a higher drip rate than a
cool day because the heat (and UV?) drove off the chlorine at a higher rate.
   Virtually all gasses are less soluble in a warm liquid than in the same
liquid when cool. I don't know that you'll get a bad side-reaction from warm
dilute bleach, but I doubt it will be as effective a cleaner unless you use
it \immediately/ because the chlorine will ]evaporate[. (What you're left with
is probably a weak caustic, which would be less bactericidal than chlorine and
just as likely to disflavor your beer if you don't clean it out.)

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Date: Fri, 8 Jun 90 14:31:05 EDT
From: ileaf!io!peoria!cjh at EDDIE.MIT.EDU (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: run-offs

> Since you're using the double-bucket lauter tun with 1/8th-inch holes (the
> Papazian recommendation), you shouldn't be concerned about Miller's time
> estimates for run-off.  Miller recommends much smaller holes (1/64" ?) 

Huh? I was reading Miller last night and recall a suggestion for 1/8" holes
on 1/4" centers. Note however that he also recommends double-filtering---
putting the first few gallons back through the mash after it has settled
into a solid bed, in order to get out more of the fine stuff.

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Date: Sun, 10 Jun 90 18:32 EDT
From: "As I mentioned next week in my talk on reversible time..."

> At the risk of being out of sink with the discussion on lengthy postings
> Most of you forget that just because you have free e-mail access doesn't
> mean everyone does, a major reason that it is polite to limit your
> postings and provide direct follow-ups to those interested is (oh horror)
> some people still pay for things like computers and connect time!!

>  - Jay H.

I agree with you, but I want to offer an alternative solution. If you are on a
DEC VAX you can extract the digest via Kermit, FTP, ect. to your PC and upload
it as a text file into, say, WordPerfect and read it at your leisure. This
saves connect time, as downloading is much faster than reading on-line, and
allows you to free up VAX account space because you can delete it after you
download it. It requires you to have (1) a VMS account where you receive the
Digest (or comparable system), (2) a PC, etc. to read it from that you have
free access to, and (3) and word processor/text editor (preferrably screen
editor or WP). Also, you can simply print out the digest from your account and
not bother with downloading. (Makes it a pain to re-write in something you
want to respond to, though...)

Captain Kirk                             ===^===  *#########
AYDLETT at UNCG.BITNET                          \______//_
                                             )#########

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #436, 06/11/90
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