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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Well its official. I am taking this hobby to far ("Edward D")
  What to do with commercial kegs (Joe Malek)
  Thomas Bird Subject: Difference between Ale and Lager ("Doug A Moller")
  Definition of ale/lager (Michael Hartsock)
  Re: Difference between Ale and Lager (Bob Devine)
  re:  Difference between Ale and Lager ("Chuck Dougherty")
  Question about Anchor Steam... ("Peter Flint Jr.")
  Re: Difference between Ale and Lager (Robert Sandefer)
  Re: Ethanol (robert.jones.web)
  Re: Ethanol (Robert Sandefer)
  RE:New Brewery; Difference between Ale & Lager (eIS) - Eastman" <stjones@eastman.com>
  Texas ales and lagers? (Brew Wisconsin)
  RE Ale versus Lager ("Parker Dutro")
  ales and lagers: Texas definitions of beer, ale, and malt liquor (Brew Wisconsin)
  Various (AJ)
  Decoction Mashing and HSA ("Dave Larsen")
  Three Definitions of Ale (was Re: Difference between Ale and Lager) ("Dave Larsen")
  Re: Stuck Mashes, flaked grains and rice hulls (Steve Funk)
  Re: Difference between Ale and Lager (Tony Brown)
  Hopback - pelletized hops (petr.otahal)
  Basement Brewing ("David King")
  Re:  Difference Between Ale and Lager ("Bruce Millington")


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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:02:03 +0800
From: "Edward D" <edwardd at dodo.com.au>
Subject: Well its official. I am taking this hobby to far

Well its official. I am taking this hobby to far.

A couple of days ago I was in my LHBS with recipes for 3 brews. A pale ale a
dark mild and a stout. On asking for the 8kg of pale male needed for the
pale and dark mild I was offered a good deal on a 25kg bag of pale malt
witch I took. Not to bad I know but it was a start. I also bought all the
ingredients for all 3 brews.

Now being unemployed and thus under absolutely no time restraints my new
brew partner and I decided to brew now. We did first go on a drive so
another friend could obtain the makings of a spit capable of roasting an
appreciable portion of a cow or a sheep entire. It is worth noting that when
we decided to do this it was 5:00 PM after the obtaining of bits of metal
and a CD for another friend that was suffering severe depression and hadn't
slept in 48 hours we started the brew session at 8:00 pm for an all grain
recipe. Unfortunately the makers of the roasting spit went to a counter
strike cafe so we where denied the fire and truly bulk meat. So we brewed in
the car port instead of out the back.

The brew day (night even) went off surprisingly well considering the brewery
had recently moved house twice with only a single extract batch between
moves. There where some hiccups like that I lost the insulation and it was
necessary to improvise with 2 blankets, a pillow, my cunning wit, stealthy
charm and force of will. Also my brew partner is obsessed with sanitation
that hot side aeration was increased by a modest factor.

We finished the brew "day" at about 5:00AM including cleaning of almost
everything. The brew was a little dark but I will just find a new name and
enjoy it anyway. The next morning (2:00 PM) the brew is fermenting
beautifully smells sooo good. Today or tomorrow (also at night) I intend to
do the same again probably with a stout.

Edward




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Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:39:01 -0700
From: Joe Malek <malekjo at speakeasy.net>
Subject: What to do with commercial kegs

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I got 2 commercial kegs over the weekend, one 15.5 gallon and one 5
gallon (I think).  I'm wondering what useful brewing apparatus I
could turn them into.  I've been brewing for ~1 year now and am
getting started on all grain brews.  The owner of my local homebrew
shoppe will do custom metal work, and since the commercial filling
and use equipment for these kegs is not something I want to spend
money on, and I've already got a kegging setup, I'm looking for other
useful things to make.  Any ideas?

cheers,
	joe

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Version: PGP 8.0.2 - not licensed for commercial use: www.pgp.com

iQA/AwUBP3jsrC0qTVBPOC0QEQKf7QCg02bXk+DlSdIPsIwUPSbD7mZSzdYAoOiv
2j8kvhF8wsmTZS2Mzcukb0FC
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- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:29:44 -0500
From: "Doug A Moller" <damoller at intergate.com>
Subject: Thomas Bird Subject: Difference between Ale and Lager

"Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:58:06 -0500
From: tebird at centurytel.net
Subject: Difference between Ale and Lager

Yesterday at our usual Sunday afternoon beer and football
neighborhood meeting I had an experience I would like help settling
from all the experts at this forum.  I have been homebrewing for
about 2 years and always believed that the difference between ale
beer and lager beer is the type yeast used in fermentation.  Ale
yeast being a top fermenting and lager being bottom fermenting."
Technically an lager yeast ferments a sugar called farinose and ale yeast
can Not!
" As we were talking one young lady in the group told us she has a boss
in Austin that home brews and brought some beer to work that he
told them had a alcohol content of about 12% ABV.  I told her I
believed it would be an imperial stout or barley wine though it could
be other beer styles.  I was at that time told by a, dare I mention it,
Bud regional sales person that it was a Ale."
Barley wine and most stouts are ales
" I said it could be but did
not have to be.  He said it HAD to be an ale because anything over
5.5% ABV was an ale while under 5.5% was a lager. "
He is referring to Texas law that states that any malt beverage over 5%
volume(4% weight)(he's wrong about the limit) cannot have the word beer on
the label but "ale" or "malt liquor" terms can be used. I believe the word
lager cannot also be used. If you look at a can or bottle of bud or Coors
there it will usually have the 5% vol marked on the package. That just means
that it is in compliance with the 5% law not that it is actually 5%. Even a
lager can be over 5% just cant be labeled that way in Texas!
" I told him he
was wrong and he bet me $100 that he was right.  OK, am I
completely off? "
You are right he just works for bud cant be too bright!
"I hate to be wrong but will admit it if I am. Thanks
to all.

Thomas Bird
San Marcos TX"

PS I have done some gravity readings on the beer in TX and OK and actually
the TX had a lower finished gravity(Bud) or the same(Coors).. They brew
these in the high gravity system. That tells me they are the same
alcohol(Coors) or less(Bud) than OK(3.2wt) beer!

Doug A Moller
Brewmaster
Oklahoma Brewing Ltd Co
brewmaster at intergate.com
20301 Palomino Way
Macomb, OK 74852-8808
405-226-3111



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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:29:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com>
Subject: Definition of ale/lager

I have had similiar arguments with people who work for
mega brew companies.

However, this is from a beer glossary provided by
Coors that is used as a Beer 101 sort of course taught
to thier  quality control people:

ale 
Any beer produced with top-fermenting or ale yeast. 

lager 
"To store." A long, cold period of subdued
fermentation and sedimentation to active (primary)
fermentation. Any beer produced with bottom-fermenting
or lager yeast. 

A maibock is obviously a lager, and can be high in
alcohol.  You're right, collect your $100 and spend it
on fancy new home brew equipment.

Mike,
Columbia, MO

=====
"May those who love us, love us.
And those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts.
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles
So we'll know them
by their limping."



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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:46:55 -0600
From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Difference between Ale and Lager

Thomas Bird asks:
> He said it HAD to be an ale because anything over 
> 5.5% ABV was an ale while under 5.5% was a lager.

You are both right ... or wrong! ;-)

Stand back -- this will be messy!

In the US, the BATF's "Alcohol Labeling and Formulation Division"
controls the federal level (http://www.atf.gov/alcohol/alfd.htm)

But as a result of the compromise to repeal prohibition, each of
the states can regulate the sale and production of alcohol too.
http://www.atf.gov/alcohol/info/faq/subpages/lcb.htm

In Texas, the "Texas Alcoholic Beverage Code", all 250+ pages of
it describe the names Texas assigns to taxable beers.  So inside
Texas, "beer" is a "malt beverage" with 0.5 to 4.0% alcohol/weight
and "ale" or "malt liquor" means a malt beverage containing more
than four percent of alcohol by weight, as defined in Sec. 1.04.

So a couple of mistakes by the Bud guy -- it is 4% not 5.5%,
and the word "lager" does not appear anywhere in the code.
So while the rest of the universe calls an ale an ale, the
Texas statutes is a tax document not a dictionary.
Witness the goofiness when Celis Brewing (RIP) sold a "bock".


To give a fuller picture of how tightly woven is the skein
of liquor laws, here are a few more links.

The FDA regulates dealcoholized wines and beers.  I guess that
if it ain't got alcohol the BATF bureaucrats couldn't touch it.
http://www.fda.gov/ora/compliance_ref/cpg/cpgfod/cpg510-400.html

And just for fun, here is a table on excise tax by US state:
  http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/beer.html
Looks painful if you live in Alaska or Hawaii. Way to go Wyoming!

Bob Devine
soon to be leaving Utah for New Mexico...


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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:24:49 -0500
From: "Chuck Dougherty" <jdougherty at wlj.com>
Subject: re:  Difference between Ale and Lager

Thomas Bird in San Marcos (the location is important here) has a bet about
the meaning of the terms "ale" and "lager."  Thomas, your definition is of
course correct in the real world.  The Bud salesman's definition comes
from the Texas legislature.  According to the Texas Alcoholic Beverage
Code, Sec. 1.04(12), "'Ale' or 'malt liquor' means a malt beverage
containing more than four percent of alcohol by weight."  Convert from abw
to abv and you understand where the Bud salesman gets his numbers.  This
is why in Texas you can find O'fests with the word "ale" on the label.
If it makes you feel better, Texas does not have a monopoly on this
nonsense.

Good luck with the bet.

Chuck Dougherty
Little Rock, Arkansas



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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:32:21 -0400
From: "Peter Flint Jr." <peterflint at mindspring.com>
Subject: Question about Anchor Steam...

I had a funny experience with Anchor Steam the other day and I wanted 
to see what the group thought.

I poured out a bottle of Anchor Steam recently that I had in the back 
of my fridge for close to a year.  When I got to the bottom, a bit of 
what looked like  yeast sludge dribbled out as well.  When I tasted 
it, the beer definitely tasted different than regular Anchor Steam. 
Not bad actually and closer to a Belgian strong ale than the regular 
Steam.

My question is, does anyone know if AS is bottle conditioned?  I had 
always thought it was filtered and cleaned-up given its wide-spread 
distribution, however the evidence seems to point to the contrary.

Maybe I got a bad batch somehow, but I have to say I suffered no ill 
side effects and it was actually a pretty good brew, just not regular 
AS.

Any thoughts?  I've got one more bottle of the same vintage that I'm 
saving for now.

Peter


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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:35:18 -0400
From: Robert Sandefer <melamor at vzavenue.net>
Subject: Re: Difference between Ale and Lager

Ah, arguments over definitions... :)

The short answer is that, yes, for homebrewers (and professional brewers 
too imo) the ale-lager distinction is one based upon yeast type (top vs 
bottom fermenting). I suppose one could make the argument that brewing 
technique (e.g., extended aging at cool temperatures) has a role in this 
distinction, but to my knowledge the two are confounded.

The longer answer is that these are not the only definitions in the world. 
A distinction between ale and lager based upon alcohol content sounds like 
some legislature run amuck. I would not be at all surprised to hear that 
the Texas legislature so defined the terms ale and lager (probably for no 
good reason either).

Other definitions exist as well: When I was growing up, my dad told me the 
difference between beer and ale was the presence of hops (yes for beer, no 
for ale).

The ultimate point imho is that definitions are created by specific groups 
of people (e.g., brewers, distributors, drinkers, and legislators), and as 
one moves from group to group definitions can change. This of course is not 
to say I agree with all such changes. I merely expect them. The next time 
such an argument starts preface comments by saying: "Well, for brewers, 
ale...lager...."

Robert Sandefer
Arlington, VA
Brewer of Hurricane (Isabel) Porter--that's right, I brewed with a 
hurricane bearing down on me.



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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:52:08 +0000
From: robert.jones.web at comcast.net
Subject: Re: Ethanol

> potentially very complex question but which one is the accepted way to
> represent the type of alcohol that comprises the bulk of the alcohol that
> you would generally find in beer? Is ETOH just an abbreviation?

Et is short for "ethyl".  Chemists often use abbreviations like Me for methyl, 
Et for ethyl...

Ethyl alcohol is the primary alcohol found in fermented beer.  There are 
others, but only in (hopefully!) trace amounts.

The general formula for an alcohol is ROH where R is a hydrocarbon chain of 
some length.  A "chain" with 1 carbon is methyl alcohol, two carbons is ethyl 
alcohol, three carbons propyl alcohol, etc.  With three carbons and up you can 
get either straight chains or branched chains, and modifiers like "iso" (e.g. 
isopropyl alcohol) are used to name these.  This is a simplified explanation, 
but hopefully gives you the idea.

You might search for a site on the web with an organic chemistry primer for a 
more detailed look.

Robert



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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:56:18 -0400
From: Robert Sandefer <melamor at vzavenue.net>
Subject: Re: Ethanol

Jay asks about the accepted way to represent the chemical structure of 
ethanol.

Both CH3CH2OH and EtOH are acceptable.

The "Et" is indeed an abbreviation for an ethyl group, a hydrocarbon chain 
of 2 single-bonded carbons. In other words, "Et" means "CH3CH2-".

The CH3CH2OH is described as a condensed structure for ethanol. You can 
also express ethanol in its Kekule structure:
          H   H
          |   |
	H - C - C - O - H
          |	  |
          H   H

Lewis structures (which use dots to represent electrons around atoms) are 
also used. They are all accepted ways to represent the structure of a 
compound.

Hope this helps.

Robert Sandefer
Arlington, VA


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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:23:50 -0400
From: "Jones, Steve (eIS) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
Subject: RE:New Brewery; Difference between Ale & Lager

Mike Eyre asks about the dough-in process of adding the crushed grain to
water which was heated in the mash tun. I've done over a hundred
allgrain batches this way and have not had any problems at all. I just
add the necessary volume of water to the mash tun, heat to my strike
temp, dump in the crushed grain, and stir. I've read and heard about
folks having trouble with dough balls (balls of grain that don't get wet
in the middle) doing it like this, but I built a stirring mechanism that
stirs the mash very well and breaks up any dough balls that occur. You
may want to add the grain slowly and stir while adding it.

Thomas Bird says a guy who is an AB salesman told him anything over 5.5%
was an ale, and anything under 5.5% was a lager (what is it if it is
exactly 5.5%?). Well, that may be what Texas law says, but that just
shows a lack of knowledge about fermented malt beverages by the
legislators who wrote the law, and it certainly doesn't make it true.
These types of legal distinctions have been made for tax & enforcement
purposes, and have often been heavily influenced by special interest
lobbyists wanting to inhibit competition. You are right, Tom, in that
the yeast is what makes the difference. Big beers like Samichlaus, EKU
28, and Salvator Dopplebock are lagers (even though the word ALE is on
the label of the export version of Salvator), and smaller beers like
most brewpub/microbrew beers out there are ales.

Go collect your hundred bucks.

Steve Jones, Johnson City, TN
State of Franklin Homebrewers (http://hbd.org/franklin)
[421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] AR




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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:30:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brew Wisconsin <brewwisconsin at yahoo.ca>
Subject: Texas ales and lagers?

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:58:06 -0500 tebird at
centurytel.net wrote on Subject: Difference between
Ale and Lager:

[snip]

> be other beer styles.  I was at that time told by a,
> dare I mention it, 
> Bud regional sales person that it was a Ale. I said
> it could be but did 
> not have to be.  He said it HAD to be an ale because
> anything over 
> 5.5% ABV was an ale while under 5.5% was a lager.  I
> told him he 
> was wrong and he bet me $100 that he was right.  OK,
> am I 
> completely off? I hate to be wrong but will admit it
> if I am. Thanks 
> to all.

I think this is an example, no not of the ignorance of
swillsener reps, but of the ignorance enshrined in
some states' laws.  I'd have to check it for sure (I
bet that www.state.tx.us would be a good starting
point), but I think this is probably one of those
ridiculous legal definitions applied to beer and other
beverages.  Absolutely nothing to do with the
scientific/biological/beeriodic defintion, just a
stupid law.

Remember Celis Pale Bock?




=====
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino
Columnist, Great Lakes Brewing News
Member, North American Guild of Beer Writers
 Winner: 2001--Culture Feature (Gold), 2000--Travel Feature (Silver)
***Sometimes alcohol and driving do go together--my car consumes more alcohol than I do.***  http://www.afdc.doe.gov/afv/ethanol.html ***



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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:49:38 -0700
From: "Parker Dutro" <pacman at edwardwadsworth.com>
Subject: RE Ale versus Lager

Well, well, well.  I guess we should expect as much from a Bud regional
sales guy.  Oh well, I suppose the arduous task of educating the masses
falls subsequently into our laps.  The BJCP lists the alcohol content of
a Classic American Pilsner as high as 6%.  With that you have your 100
bucks in the bag.  Rogue Brewery makes a new Imperial pilsner with an
abv of 8.9%.  So now we are getting somewhere.  But the real sass is
that BJCP list a traditional bock and maibock as between 6 and 7.5 %abv.
Smoking your "buddy's" (pun) little parameter!  But let's not stop
there!  BJCP also lists the doppelbock between 7.5 and 12 %abw/v and the
eisbock between 8.60 and 14.40 %abw/v.  So Thomas, next time you bet a
bill on something, you should probably be able to back it up on the
spot!  If you have Promash, you can look at all the beer styles or go to
the BJCP website.  What are you going to buy with that hundred?  Seems
fitting to buy some doppelbock and bring it to the next Sunday get
together!  Salvator!

Parker Dutro,
Portland, OR

"To every man, in his acquaintance with a new art, there comes a moment
when that which before was meaningless first lifts, as it were, one
corner of the curtain that hides its mystery, and reveals, in a burst of
delight which later and fuller understanding can hardly ever equal, one
glimpse of the indefinite possibilities within."  C.  S.  Lewis






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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:10:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brew Wisconsin <brewwisconsin at yahoo.ca>
Subject: ales and lagers: Texas definitions of beer, ale, and malt liquor

Well, turns out the Bud guy doesn't even win on a
legal definition:

Texas Alcoholic Beverage Code 

1.04 Definitions
(12) "Ale" or "malt liquor" means a malt beverage
containing more than four percent of alcohol by
weight.

(BTW, that's 5% by volume)

(15) "Beer" means a malt beverage containing one-half
of one percent or more of alcohol by volume and not
more than four percent of alcohol by weight, and does
not include a beverage designated by label or
otherwise by a name other than beer.

(The word "lager" does not appear in the statutes at
all.)


As for the "real" definition, there are plenty of
counter examples.  Ordinary Bitter (ale) is well under
5.5% v/v and a maibocks and doppelbocks (lager) are
well over that percentage.

If you take that bet, have a copy of the Texas statute
on hand as well as a BCJP style guide :-)



=====
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino
Columnist, Great Lakes Brewing News
Member, North American Guild of Beer Writers
 Winner: 2001--Culture Feature (Gold), 2000--Travel Feature (Silver)
***Sometimes alcohol and driving do go together--my car consumes more alcohol than I do.***  http://www.afdc.doe.gov/afv/ethanol.html ***



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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 18:40:53 +0000
From: AJ <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Various

Hoods: Given that one has a good (exhausts all steam, combustion 
products) hood in an enclosed area the remaining concern is that there 
is an ample supply of makeup air to replace that which the hood 
exhausts. This is especially important in a basement where a furnace or 
water heater is located as we do not want makeup air being drawn into 
the basement through the flues of these devices, especially when they 
are fired up. Many hood designs include a supply air plenum. These may 
be required by the code. Also, depending on duct size, run length  and 
the codes a supply blower may be required as well as the exhaust fan. 
Understanding what the local building inspector can do to you is the 
most important consideration here. Maybe also avoiding carbon monoxide 
poisoning from flue spill.

Water to Grist or Grist to water: It doesn't matter whether water is 
added to grist (which is probably how most homebrewers do it) or grist 
to water (which is how most commercial brewers do it). There is one 
advantange to adding water to grist - you can always add more hot or 
cold water if you over or undershoot the strike temp. I guess you could 
do the same if you added grist to water as well now that I think about 
it a bit.

Ale: It is, I believe, a peculiarity of Texas law that anything over a 
certain alcoholic strength must be called an ale regardless of what type 
of beer it actually is. Someone involved in commercial beer sales in 
Texas would have this firmly in mind at all times.

Hydrometers: For hydrometers try scientific supply houses such as Cole 
Parmer. They (C.P) have things in the range you are looking for if not 
exactly what you want e.g. they have an 0.949 to 1.010 and 1.000 to 
1.050, 1.050 to 1.100 etc plus specialty items for Brix and alcohol.

Ethanol:EtOH is an abbreviation for ethyl hydroxide. Ethane is CH3CH3. 
If one of the hydrogens is replaced by a hydroxyl  group (i.e. the 
ethane gets oxidized one step)  you get CH3CH2OH or ethanol. Oxidize it 
another step to CH3CHO and you have acetaldehyde, oxidize it further - 
acetic acid CH3COOH and further still to HOOCCOOH, oxalic acid. The 
ultimate oxidation gives CO2.

A.J.



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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:54:26 +0000
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpumonkey at hotmail.com>
Subject: Decoction Mashing and HSA

I've been doing some reasearch on decoction mashing, as I am looking at 
trying it for the first time.  I think I've got a pretty good handle on it, 
at least enough to give it a try and see what happens.  In all the 
documentation I've read though, I've never read anything about Hot Side 
Aeration.  It seems to me that scooping out big globs of hot wet grain with 
a slotted spoon or strainer and dumping it back and forth between boil pot 
and mash tun is going to drop globules, drip, and splash quite a bit.  The 
mess aside, can HSA be a problem?

Dave
Tucson, AZ



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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:14:59 +0000
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpumonkey at hotmail.com>
Subject: Three Definitions of Ale (was Re: Difference between Ale and Lager)

There are at least three definitions of ale that I know of.  The first is 
the standard definition: a beer brewed with a top-fermenting yeast at warmer 
temperatures producing more fruity esters.  The second is this: some states 
have labeling laws that say if a beer has more than X amount of alcohol, it 
must be labeled "ale" (which is unfortunate).  Finally, there is a third 
definition that I guess in medieval times something referred to as an ale 
was basically an unhopped beer.

Dave
Tucson, AZ



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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:06:44 -0700
From: Steve Funk <steve at hheco.com>
Subject: Re: Stuck Mashes, flaked grains and rice hulls

Brian,
I have had those kind of brew days myself.  Keep the faith.  I too use a 
chest cooler and a Bazooka screen for a mash tun.  It has worked great 
for me. I have used a lot of Crisp Maris Otter for my base malt and have 
used flaked oats, barley, wheat and triticale in my mashes all without 
incident (knock on wood).  I mill my own grain and use two passes for 
the Maris Otter, however, I do not mill the flaked grains.  Just throw 
them directly into the the grist mix.  I have added up to 15% flaked 
oats in oatmeal stouts without getting a stuck mash.  If you use a pump, 
start off with the outlet nearly closed and then open very slowly.  Some 
high gluten content grains do indeed need extra help to aviod a stuck 
mash.  In these incidences, such as in an all wheat beer, I add one 
handful of rice hulls per pound of wheat and mix it throughout the 
grist.  I hope this helps.  YMMV

Steve Funk
Brewing in the Columbia River Gorge
Stevenson, WA


> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:34:34 -0700
> From: "Brian Schar" <bschar at cardica.com>
> Subject: Stuck mash
> 
> Yesterday was one of those brew 
> days where everything 
> that can go wrong did go
> wrong...
> ...I was brewing a 10-gallon 
> batch of stout; the total 
> grain bill was 18.5 pounds
> mashed in an Igloo 10-gallon 
> cooler with a Bazooka strainer 
> for wort collection...
>...the use of Maris 
> Otter malt, and the use 
> of 1 pound of flaked wheat for
> head retention....
> ...I had the flaked wheat crushed 
> with the grain... Dumb
> question #1: when using flaked 
> wheat, should I crush it?...
 >...Dumb question #2: do you put all
> the rice hulls at the bottom 
> of the mash tun, or mix
> them evenly throughout 
> the grist...
>... Brian Schar
> Belmont, CA




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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:43:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tony Brown <acbrown97 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Difference between Ale and Lager

Thomas Bird asked about the difference between an Ale
and a Lager. 

Thomas, the problem with your argument is that you and
the Bud representative are probably talking about
completely different things.  

You are correct that, with respect to most places on
earth, the characteristics of the yeast determine
whether a beer is called an "ale" or a "lager". 
However, the Texas legislature, in its infinite
wisdom, has decided that the word "ale" (or "malt
liquor") shall refer to a malt beverage that is more
than 4 percent alcohol by weight (approx. 5 percent by
volume).  The word "beer" refers to a malt beverage
from 0.5 to 4 percent alcohol by weight. To the best
of my knowledge, the word "lager" does not appear
anywhere in the Texas statutes.

Most likely, the Bud rep is confused by this
distiction used by the Texas Alcohol and Beverage
Commission (which regulates his employer).  He seems
to have the alcohol percentage incorrect as well.  I
would say that you win the bet.  If you check out
Budweiser's website, his employer agrees with you.

Tony Brown
Houston, Texas





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Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 08:55:25 +1000 (EST)
From: petr.otahal at aardvark.net.au
Subject: Hopback - pelletized hops

I would like to make a hop back for use with hop pellets.

Anyone out there made one or have some good design tips.

Appreciate any feedback, either privately or publicly.

Cheers
Petr Otahal
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia


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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:23:11 -0400
From: "David King" <dking3 at stny.rr.com>
Subject: Basement Brewing

Jim,

I did the same thing, but mine was conversion of a basement dark room.  I
use a big natural gas burner under a converted 1/2 keg, works like a champ.
You have to get rid of the heat, humidity and CO with your hood, but if you
do, you'll be all set.  I suggest a CO monitor.  I once forgot to open the
window, and wow, did the monitor let me know!

     Dave King (BIER), [396.1, 89.1] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:00:14 -0400
From: "Bruce Millington" <bmillington at verizon.net>
Subject: Re:  Difference Between Ale and Lager

Thomas,
Hand that guy a bottle of Samichlaus(14% lager) and a bottle of just about
any wheat ale (under 5%), and collect your $100!

Bruce



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