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Contents:
  re: hops and dogs and compost (David Radwin)
  Tinseth Utilization Numbers (John Palmer)
  Re: going to SF ("Tom White")
  Re: going to SF ("Matt Walker")
  Atkinsonian stuff ... ("-S")
  ibu calc on double batch (Dane Mosher)
  IBU calculations (Fred Johnson)
  dogs and hops (Alan McKay)
  Dunkels... (Darrell.Leavitt)
  Flax, fiber, and beer, oh my (JE)" <JESteinbrunner@dow.com>
  Beer etiquette in Texas... (Bev Blackwood II)
  Hops and Dogs ("John Adsit")
  Re: beer education & Texas (blutick)
  Motorizing a mill / electric motor wiring (Chuck Mryglot)
  The Great Beer Disaster of 2003 (Mark Beck)
  human calorimeter ("Dave Burley")
  brewing in Santa Fe (beerbuddy)
  Re: specific gravities (Mark W Wilson)
  Pumpkin Ale Recommendations (long) (Clayton Carter)
  RE: "educating" servers (Brian Lundeen)
  Bland Beer ("Martin Brungard")
  Teach A Friend To Homebrew Day ("Gary Glass")


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Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 21:42:56 -0700
From: David Radwin <dradwin at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: re: hops and dogs and compost

> From: "Mike Racette" <mike.racette at hydro-gardens.com>

> I'm not a dog person so I don't remember the details, but I'm surprised no
> one has brought up the fact that hops can be extremely poisonous to some
> dogs.  A search of the archives will find details on which breeds are
> affected.
 . . .
> Although I compost spent grains, I always dispose of spent hops where dogs
> can't get at them (unless they frequent the landfill that is).

I'm not suggesting anyone start feeding hops to their dogs, but our 
small dog used to nibble on a hop vine with no apparent ill effect. The 
compost pile, on the other hand, is full of bacteria and may be quite 
dangerous. Another small dog of ours got very sick after getting into 
the compost. The hospitalization was traumatizing and very expensive 
(about $600), but he's OK now. Now I keep the compost outside the fenced 
dog area.

- -- 
David Radwin
This email account forwards to trash. Reply to 
news at removethispart.davidradwin.com



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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:21:32 -0700
From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at altrionet.com>
Subject: Tinseth Utilization Numbers

Hi Group,
I had emailed Glenn to ask in response to a question from Fred whether 
Glenn had used Beginning, Average, or Final when developing his 
utilization equation and he replied (and I should have remembered)(but 
i was at work) that he used the average.

Here is Glenn Tinseth's email of 9 Oct 03:
<begin quote>
John,
First, in case the folks discussing haven't already read this, please 
point
them to

http://www.realbeer.com/hops/research.html, where they will find:

"Use an average gravity value for the entire boil to account for 
changes in
the wort volume."

and also, from the same page:

"The numbers 1.65 and 0.000125 are empirically derived to fit my data. 
The
number 0.04 controls the shape of the utilization vs. time curve. The 
factor
4.15 controls the maximum utilization value--make it smaller if your 
kettle
utilization is higher than mine.

I'd suggest fiddling with 4.15 if necessary to match your system; only 
play
with the other three if you like to muck around. I make no guarantees 
if you
do.

The really cool thing about these new equations is that they are easily
customizable. I believe the basic form is correct; by playing with the
different factors, different brewers should be able to make them fit 
their
breweries perfectly."

So...let me summarize.

The numbers from the curves, as presented on the Hop Page, matched my
brewery, and I believe, match chemically and physically what is 
happening in
the brew kettle. There is no reason to believe that those specific 
equations
will give accurate IBU numbers for anyone else without changes in some 
of
the constants, and I've never claimed otherwise. I've always said that 
the
only real way to determine ibus is by sending samples to the lab. My
equations should serve as a tool for brewers to fine-tune their 
processes
and recipes, and indeed, are used in this manner by home and pro brewers
around the world. They are not a substitute for proper lab analyses.

As to the idea of using different gravity numbers for different hop
additions, I think we are in the zone of diminishing returns.
There are several other factors more important than this,
One: are the hops accurately analyzed (usually there is one sample per
several bales, so what does that tell you about your 4 oz. package),
Two: what has happened to the AA content since that test was carried 
out,
Three: how does your heat source and kettle geometry compare to mine,
Four: How does the AA saturation level effect utilization
(i.e., if it's a highly hopped wort, I suspect there is a point at which
utilization decreases because of AA already dissolved),
Five: How are you measuring gravity (refractometer, hydrometer, ??)
and is it accurate, i.e. have you calibrated it at a variety of 
gravities.

These are just off the top of my head. There are many others. A couple 
of BUs
difference because of the gravity effect and different hop additions is 
not
among the ones I would worry about. But this is certainly just my 
opinion.

I intended that my numbers would be a useful, easy-to-use tool to help
brewers estimate bitterness and refine their recipes and processes. That
alone is one reason not to sweat the small stuff. If you want more 
accuracy,
send some samples to the lab. The next step, should someone be 
interested,
is to investigate number 4 above, which I suspect may be the biggest
problem, especially for those of us who brew a lot of IPA.

Please keep me posted and feel free to post the above in whatever forum 
you
want, as long as it is attributed to me.  <end quote>

And from a subsequent reply he said:
"I think your analysis of the result of doing what you do is perfect.
And very much in keeping with the way I intend people to use the
numbers, i.e., find the way it works best for you, and then be 
consistent."

This is where the Axiom "Close enough for Government work" applies.
Cheers,
John

John Palmer
john at howtobrew.com
www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer
www.howtobrew.com - the free online book of homebrewing



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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:48:18 -0400
From: "Tom White" <twhite at dminsite.com>
Subject: Re: going to SF

When I lived in SF I loved this place...

Zeitgeist, 199 Valencia St.
(Valencia  at  Duboce)

Voted SF's best Biker Bar, home of all things two-wheeled. Enjoy Zeitgeist's
25 microbrews on tap, lush beer garden, and underground rock atmosphere.
Hangovers installed and serviced.

http://www.sfstation.com/bars/zeitgeist/



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Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:25:45 -0700
From: "Matt Walker" <matt at suckerfish.net>
Subject: Re: going to SF

Looking for a dive bar with a great beer list specializing in Belgians?
You're a man after my own heart. Here are two lists...

The killer-beer-bars-that-happen-to-be-dives-a-short-bus/subway-ride-away
list:

Toronado -- 547 Haight  at  Fillmore -- Already recommended a couple times.
Insane Belgian selection. Good tap list. Also grab a bottle list--there are
some gems like aged Abbaye des Rocs Grand Cru. A dive. A short bus ride from
Moscone Center. Take the 7, 71, 6, or 66 bus to Fillmore St. While in the
neighborhood, check out Noc Noc, Mad Dog in the Fog, Molotov's, and a number
of good restaurants including Rosamunde Grill, Memphis Minnie's, Ali Baba's,
etc. A ten minute walk to Lucky 13.

Amnesia -- 853 Valencia  at  20th St -- Good beer selection. Quite a few
Belgians. Somewhat of a dive. Fairly hip.

Lucky 13 -- 2140 Market  at  Church -- Good beer selection. Quite a few
Belgians. A dive. Take the Muni underground (K, L, or M) up Market St. to
Church station. The J and N lines will get you there, but they're a little
trickier. A ten minute walk to Toronado.

Zeitgeist -- 199 Valencia  at  Duboce -- Fairly good beer selection. A dive.
Great beer garden in back. A short slightly-sketchy walk from the 16th St.
BART station or take the Muni F line up Market St to Valencia and walk down.

21st Amendment -- 563 2nd St  at  Bryant -- You mentioned this one. Not a dive
but good beer and fairly good food. Walking distance to Moscone Center.
Definitely worth a stop since it's so close to you.


And the dive-bars-near-Moscone-Center-with-a-few-reasonably-good-beers list:

Dave's -- 29 Third St  at  Market -- Just up the street from Moscone Center. A
few good beers. Good locals bar.

Pow -- 101 Sixth St  at  Mission -- Horrible neighborhood. Fun dive. A few good
beers. Four blocks or so from Moscone.

Tunnel Top -- 601 Bush St  at  Stockton -- Seven blocks from Moscone. Fun dive.
Somewhat of a hipster joint.

Sutter Station -- 25 Sutter St  at  Market -- Big with the after-work crowd.
Relatively close to Moscone Center. Clears out early.

Eddie Rickenbacker's -- 133 2nd St  at  Mission -- A few good beers. Close to
Moscone.

Gold Dust Lounge -- 247 Powell St  at  O'Farrell -- Can get somewhat touristy
and not entirely a dive but it's a fun place to grab a beer or two.

Crow Bar -- 401 Broadway  at  Montgomery -- Fairly good beer selection. A bit
farther away in North Beach.


More info:

http://sfbrewpub.jasper.org/pubs.htm

http://www.ratebeer.com/ShowTour.asp?TourID=13

http://www.sfgate.com/eguide/music/barguide/dives.shtml






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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:09:50 -0400
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: Atkinsonian stuff ...

Dave Burley writes .... on diet etc ...

> Food Calories that are in most ( or all ) tables are not
> constructed by measuring the amount of calories in and the calories out as
> waste [...]

Yes they are.  Each individual food isn't tested in this way, but there is
little need for that.  In 1890 Wilbur Atwater broke foods into fat,
protein and carbs.  In 1894 he and E.Rosa devised the first human
calorimeter.   And yes the energy of excretions were accounted for.
Here's a SciAm article on it.
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000BC2DE-F163-1C73-9B81809EC588EF21
They've been  measuring the actual *available* energy in foods for
over 100 years now ...

Check this online book and you'll see that many of your claims
that only primitive methods are used are unfounded.
http://books.nap.edu/books/0309085373/html/index.html
You'll see that fiber evaluated quite differently than other foods
and a chapter is devoted to this.  That thermic effects of food
are recognized (pp97), which considerably impacts energy
estimates for carbs and protein.  That fat absorption rates
have been measured and accounted for (p342).  If you want
details then took to the citations.

> Maybe you mis-stated the statistical conclusions
> I conclude from this  information that it was NOT
> associated with reduced calorie intake but WITH
> reduced carbohydrate.

No. How could I mis-state an exact quote ?
Here is the abstract.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/14/1837


> My point in all this is not that the basic theory is wrong or that there
any
> major loopholes in the basic energy equations, but that the numbers
describing
> foods and how many available calories they impart is wrong or at least
blurry.

Blurry yes.   Even if we knew precisely the amount of energy we burned  we
could not use the FDA labels or even the better research figures to
determine food intake within better than a few percent.   IOW the arithmetic
calculation would be farther off than the defective  "hormonal calculation"
of energy reqs a typical obese person !  I don't think the conscious
awareness of calories helps very much, except for diabetics who must
consciously control their carbohydrate metabolism by insulin injection.

What is needed is to find and correct the factor causing the consistent ~1%
upward bias in our hormonal calculation of energy requirements, not the
fruitless attempt to replace this with a conscious calculation of energy
intake.

This conversation needs to go offline !

 -Steve



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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 01:32:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dane Mosher <dane_mosher at yahoo.com>
Subject: ibu calc on double batch

Steve Smith asks about his IBU calculations predicting
slightly less bitterness when he doubles his batch
size but uses one less gallon of water.

I think you are dealing with such slight variations in
the recipe that it is going to be hard to predict
whether bitterness will change or not.  Your gravities
will all be slightly higher due to your water
deletion, which will slightly reduce hop utilization. 
On the other hand, you might get more hop utilization
with your increased batch size.  Your own calculations
show less than a 1 IBU difference, which I think is a
reasonable prediction.

Also, in my experience vigorous boils noticeably
increase bitterness even though they result in higher
gravities.  Boil strength is a BIG variable.  Strong
boils also result in more hot break and clearer beer,
so I boil hard whenever possible.

I'd go for it using the hops you have.  I think any
change in IBU's will be negligible.

Dane Mosher
Fort Worth, TX



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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:12:50 -0400
From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com>
Subject: IBU calculations

Jonathan:

I read Johnathan's post in which he has chosen to use the initial 
(pre-boil) gravity for calculating IBUs using someone's published 
formula. His argument is that the majority of the bittering hops are 
added at the beginning of the boil and that is the time when most of 
the isomerization occurs.

This is perhaps a fair argument for using the pre-boil gravity if one 
is trying to DETERMINE a useful formula, but this argument is 
irrelevant if one is going to use the formula generated by someone 
else. For example, if you are decide to use Tinseth's formula for 
calculating IBUs and you insist on using the pre-boil gravity in the 
formula, you can only expect your calculation to be accurate if 
Tinseth's formula was derived using pre-boil gravities. If Tinseth's 
experiments used the post-boil gravity in his experiments and in the 
derivation of his formula, then you are destined to be in error if you 
refuse to use the post-boil gravity when using Tinseth's formula.

I repeat my earlier question: What gravity did the inventors of the 
formulae use?

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:19:29 -0400
From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net>
Subject: dogs and hops

Mike Racette reminds folks when feeding beer to dogs, that
hops can be quite toxic to some breeds.  Full details are on
my site at :

http://tinyurl.neap.net?k=b7b3786eabbe56f594f909d253bffdde

cheers,
 -Alan

- -- 
http://www.bodensatz.com/
TCP/IP: telecommunication protocol for imbibing pilsners
        (Man-page of Unix-to-Unix beer protocol on Debian/GNU Linux)


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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:27:27 -0400
From: Darrell.Leavitt at esc.edu
Subject: Dunkels...





Marc;

 I also ran into a problem with the taste of a dunkel...so that last one I
brewed was with the correct yeast, but with a malt bill that was more akin
to an English Strong Ale.  I called it "Sortofadunkel"  and it was, and
continues to be a big hit ....malty, but also dunkelish...

 ..Darrell



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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:25:24 -0500
From: "Steinbrunner, Jim (JE)" <JESteinbrunner at dow.com>
Subject: Flax, fiber, and beer, oh my

In HBD 4370, Chad Stevens discussed the use of flaxseed, 
it's mucilaginous coating and apparent positive impact on 
head retention. This brought to mind three seemingly 
unrelated points:

Point 1: I am a new all-grain brewer . In my first all-grain 
brew, I was amazed at the meringue-like foam that I whipped 
up on my cooled wort as I transferred from pot to primary. I 
really like the appearance, so I'm interested in different 
ways I can adjust my brewing to improve head retention. 

Point 2: I have recently become more interested in fiber for 
reasons I won't go into >:^O . The mucilaginous coating on 
flaxseed that Chad mentioned is high in soluble fiber, which 
is good for digestive health, but may not be very appealing 
to add to one's diet (think Metamucil). 

Point 3: I listen to the Bob and Tom syndicated radio show - 
bobandtom.com ; juvenile/adult humor warning! ;^ ) Bob and 
Tom have played a satirical bit extolling the virtues of a 
high-fiber brew by the name of Shatz.

Summary: if I add grains high in soluble fiber to my grain 
bill, will my beer have better head retention and also 
contribute useful soluble fiber to my diet? Is the Shatz 
concept valid? Or am I full of Shatz?

Respectfully yours,
Jim Steinbrunner
Midland, MI



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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:33:19 -0500
From: Bev Blackwood II <bdb2 at bdb2.com>
Subject: Beer etiquette in Texas...

Texas, our Texas.... <sigh>  Where a beer can be an ale, but "ale" 
can't be called a "beer." :-)

I seem to recall hitting a similar situation once where they literally 
WERE giving the beer away because their license had expired and until 
they got it back, beer was "on the house" although they didn't widely 
advertise the fact.  So most likely, you lucked into a situation like 
that, especially since you were able to buy beer at the local store.  
Insofar as tipping, etc.  I doubt there was any kinda compensation 
expected.  He likely just raised the price on all his meals by a buck 
and covered his costs that way.
On the other hand...
In Texas, counties and communities can vote themselves to be "dry,"  a 
holdover from Prohibition known as "Local option."  This usually shoves 
all beer and alcohol by the drink sales into "private clubs" which you 
have to join to get a beer and all retail alcohol sales across the 
nearest municipal divide.  This can actually be downright bewildering 
when you cross a street and suddenly can't buy a beer.  You *may* have 
run into this circumstance, but I don't think it's likely.
At Saint Arnold, where I help out with the weekly tour, we can give 
away all the beer we want, but can't sell a drop.  However, for private 
parties there's always a "tip jar" for the bartenders which is 
sometimes quite lucrative.  However, we can never get into the 
appearance of taking money for beer at the brewery, because that's 
against state law.  (Mandatory 3-tier system, thanks to the Macros, 
whose "Brews Brothers" lobbyists own the Texas Legislature...)

Glad you were at least able to GET a beer, hope you had a nice visit, 
ya'll come back now, y'hear?

 -BDB2

Bev D. Blackwood II
http://www.bdb2.com



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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:32:14 -0600
From: "John Adsit" <j.adsit at comcast.net>
Subject: Hops and Dogs

I did a very quick Google search for information on the toxicity of hops in
dogs.

In the National Library of medicine I discovered a 1997 abstract on a
report on five dogs who had a reaction similar to malignant hyperthermia.
Four of the five were greyhounds.


In the rest of my search, every warning related to dogs and hops referred to
this report.

Here are some other search results:

A commercial product, Doc Ackerman's Botanical Pet Products' Allergy Relief
formula for dogs, contains hops.

Petsmart advertises a product (Comfort-Calm Doggie Bites) that contains
hops.

MTE Nutrition advertises a product to reduce anxiety in dogs that contains
both brewers yeast and hops.

I think those who have written in to say that hops are only dangerous if
consumed in mass quantities are probably correct.

John Adsit
Boulder, CO

John Adsit
Boulder, CO
j.adsit at comcast.net




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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:43:01 -0500
From: blutick at juno.com
Subject: Re: beer education & Texas

Dave Holt posted about his experience with free beer in a Dallas BBQ
joint:
 
>I thanked the owner for the beer.  Here are the questions I had.  Was a
tip 
>or donation expected?  Could I get another beer?
 
I had a similar experience at a local restaurant earlier this year. When
we were seated, our waitress informed us that the restaurant had recently
lost their liquor license and could not sell beer. They could, and would,
serve us "free" beer but that a nice tip was expected. They had a short
beer list with a few decent beers on it, so we proceeded to order. After
2-3 trips back to the table to inform us "sorry, we're out of X", we
settled for Sam Adams Light and Shiner Bock. We had one beer with the
meal and another just for oral hygiene, then went looking for better
beer. We later found out that the restaurant had lost their license for
serving an underage drinker. That restaurant closed a short time later.
Your BBQ joint may have been in a similar or entirely different
situation.
 
Your experience with the free beer is not the way restaurants in Texas
normally conduct business. Let common sense and courtesy be your guide.
Tip expected? Of course. Another beer? Doesn't hurt to ask.
 
Jim Layton
Howe, TX


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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:47:57 -0400
From: Chuck Mryglot <cmryglot at cisco.com>
Subject: Motorizing a mill / electric motor wiring

So, I picked up an electric motor at a yard sale for $2, but it does not 
have a power cord attached.   There looks to be 4 blades for connecting 
the cord.   Can anyone give me some guidance on what wires go where? 
 The label on the motor tells me:
Universal Electric Co.
115v  60 Hz
1725 rpm,    1/4 HP

Thanks
ChuckM



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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:11:10 -0700
From: Mark Beck <beckmk at whitman.edu>
Subject: The Great Beer Disaster of 2003

You know it's going to be bad when your daughter comes to you first thing 
in the morning and says, "Daddy, why is there beer all over the basement 
floor?"

My first thought was that it was a carboy bomb, and that my cider had 
exploded (I had just started 5 gallons this past weekend)--I mean it was 
ALL OVER the basement floor.  However, the aroma was most definitely 
beer--nice hop aroma.  Checked the carboy and it was fine.  That could only 
mean it was the keg of IPA.  How did that end up all over the floor?

Well, I have a very long thin tube for dispensing the beer, and it seems 
that the cats had been playing with it.  The faucet was stuck to the top of 
the keg, but the tube and been pulled off.  That keg was FULL--I'd had 
maybe 4 or 5 beers out of it.  Over 4.5 gallons of nice IPA on the basement 
floor.  Took me an hour and a half to clean it up.

Now that I've written it down I can let it go and get on with my day.

Those cats owe me a REALLY big bottle of REALLY good beer.

Mark Beck
Walla Walla, WA



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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:18:25 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: human calorimeter

Brewsters:

Steve Alexander ( better known lately as S-) provided some useful information
in his SciAm reference. This article indicated a complete calorimetric study
of in and out was done. But the data on which Atwater and all the Food Calorie
tables is apparently based on extremely limited human data and limited food
data  from early in the 20th century. Based on this article, apparently most
( if not all)  of the currently used data is based on the food efficiency of a
highly fit bicyclist who lived in a human calorimeter room for some weeks.

I don't know of any data that deals with unfit and fat humans and their
efficiency of turning food into calories and body parts and excreta.  I have
never seen an article describing the range of efficiency by food type of human
digestion. We do know that metabolism does change with age, with caloric
intake, as well as fat/muscle ratio for a given weight.

And, yep, I read the Student T test results incorrectly. A high P means the
populations are <not> distinguishable.

And, besides, if you believe Atkins and his insulin theory, the US increase in
fat per capita is due to the incredibly high percentage of sandwiches in our
diets. Eat your meals off a plate the way the Europeans ( used to) do

Future discussions on this are offline.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:34:40 +0000
From: beerbuddy at comcast.net
Subject: brewing in Santa Fe

Well, looks like we made a snap decision to move to
Santa Fe from near Seattle. Anyone out there know what
the brewing is like in Santa Fe or Albuquerque? LHBS? 
Brewpubs? looks like I won't be able to finish building
my mash tun and try all grain for a little while yet . . . 

Timothy
somewhere northwest of the center of the homebrew universe . . . 

for now.


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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:55:07 -0700
From: Mark W Wilson <mwwilson at ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: specific gravities 


> First off, you should know that calculating IBU's is
> not currently possible on the homebrew level without
> expensive lab equipment, contrary to what many authors
> suggest.  There is no magic formula.  (Same goes for
> color, but that's another story.)  

Just a counter-data-point (well, two):  

I have twice had my homebrew lab-analyzed by a brewery (*).  Both times the
IBU rating came within one or two points of the value calculated by the
Tinseth method (I use the recipator on hbd.org to do the math).  I was
suprised.  So that's one "magic formula" that works pretty well for me.
YMMV.  Also note that the "tasting delta" for IBUs is pretty large, about
5 IBU.

That being said, I use the measured gravity at the start of the boil.

But I agree with the gist of your comments, i.e. "relative bitterness" is
what's important if you're trying to get consistancy.  But varying alpha
acid levels both within the bale sampled, and for a given set of hops over
time, is probably the greatest source of IBU variance.

(*) Widmer Bros. in Portland has an on-going "Collaborator" program with the
Oregon Brew Crew homebrew club where they brew a small commercial batch of a
selected homebrew from a number of entries.  They often do a lab analysis of
all the entries, gratis.


- --------------------------------------------------------
Mark W. Wilson                  mwwilson at ichips.intel.com


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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:02:24 -0500
From: Clayton Carter <crcarter at cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Pumpkin Ale Recommendations (long)


Hello all,

	I'd like to brew a pumpkin ale in the next few weeks, but I'm
confused by all of the recipes out there.  All of them differ on when
to add the pumpkin, whether to roast the pumpkin or use it raw, HOW
MUCH pumpkin to use, malts to use, and other additions.  I've decided
to scrap other recipes and base mine off of a few that I've seen
online, but first I'll explain what I want from this brew.

	This'll be my fifth beer (all have been extract based), so I'm
not terribly experienced, but I'm pretty confident in my techniques.
I've never formulated my own recipe, so this is a first.  As for the
beer, first and foremost, I want the pumpkin to be assertive and very
noticable with the spices.  This is, afterall, a pumpkin ale and not
just a `pumpkin pie spice' ale.  Secondly, I'd like for this to be
somewhat sweet to give some extra support to the spices and pumpkin.
Lastly, I forget what my third criteria is.  Probably that I don't
want it too bitter.  I'm not a hophead.

	So, anyone care to oversee my first recipe formulation?  All
comments, suggestions and advice welcome!

===[ Clayton's `Bound to be Terrible' Pumpkin Ale ]===
5 gal; extract

GRAIN:
1 pound crystal (20L) malt (what about Munich?  Amber?)
6 pounds light malt extract

FLAVORS:
8 pounds roasted pumpkin
16 oz grade B maple syrup (B is stronger flavored, would 10oz be better?)

HOPS:
1 oz Hallertau (bittering; full hour)
1 oz Fuggles (flavor; last 15 min)

SPICES/ADDITIVES:
2 cinnamon sticks
1 t whole cloves
1.5 t ground nutmeg
1.5 t ground allspice
1 oz fresh grated ginger
1.5 t vanilla extract
1 t Irish Moss (Should I use more?  [4] calls for 3t!!)

YEAST:
American Ale Yeast

BREWING:
Steep grain and 1/2 pumpkin; remove when water boils.  Add extract,
Halls and maple syrup and return to boil.  Add cinnamon at 30 minutes.
Add cloves at 40 minutes.  Add everything else (incl. rest of pumpkin
and Fuggs) at 50 minutes.  Kill heat at 60 minutes, cool down and dump
wort and pumpkin into primary.  Pitch.  After 4-5 days, rack off of
pumpkin into secondary.  Bottle when the time is right and use the
same criteria for drinking.

===[ end ]===

	You see that I'm using 8 pounds of roasted pumpkin.  If that
doesn't make it assertive, I don't know what will.  As for sweetening
the brew, someone mentioned that Munich malt would be good for that.
Is that true?  I've opted for a Crystal because that's what I'm
familiar with, but I'm not set on it.  I'm also calling for adding a
full pound of grade B maple syrup.  Would that be too much?  B has
much more flavor than other syrups, so I'm set on that, but is 16 oz
too much?  I've gone for 2oz of hops to keep the bitterness in check
but not absent.  I went with Hall and Fuggs because most of the
recipes seem split between them.

	The main problem that I'm experiencing with my brewing is
filtering or sparging out all of the hops (I use pellets) when pouring
into the primary.  This would be a HUGE pain if I were trying to save
the pumpkin.  I could put the hops in muslin bags, but they might
escape.  Has anyone had any luck with this?  I could also put the
pumpkin in bags, but that would take something like 4 bags.  Actually,
I'm thinking that the hops-in-a-bag idea is a decent idea.  Does
anyone have any suggestions about easing this process?  I hate pouring
that nasty slurry of hops into the fermenter, but it's such a pain to
pour it though a mesh strainer that keeps getting clogged.

	OK, I've been working on this email for way too long.  Again,
I appreciate any and all feedback regarding my proposed recipe or any
successes or failures that you've had.  Also, any advice about the hop
sparging would be great, too.

	Thanks all, have a great weekend.

Clayton

REFERENCES:
[1] http://brewery.org/brewery/gambmug/recs/167.shtml
[2] http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat/recipes/special/fvbeer/recipes/34.html
[3] http://www.stoutbillys.com/stout/recipens/(Flat)/EB440777.htm
[4] http://hbd.org/brewery/cm3/recs/08_35.html
[5] http://www.modernbrewer.com/recipes/pumpkin.htm



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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:20:31 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: "educating" servers

Dave Holt writes:
> 
> The uninformed 
> wait staff gave the smart ass in me the perfect setup by 
> responding I would 
> like an imported SNPA.  Smart ass aside, it also gave me an 
> opportunity to 
> educate the wait staff a little on beer.

I expect you annoyed them more than educated them. Chances are, if they were
interested in being beer knowledgeable, they would have done so on their
own. For most wait staff (outside of upscale restaurants), it's just a dumb
job where they have to feign pleasantness and efficiency through their shift
in an effort to maximize their tips. I doubt most care about being
knowledgeable about any aspect of their environment. Here's an example from
my College's dining room, where people train to be servers.

Dumb customer: Does the turkey ravioli contain turkey?
Dumber server: I don't know, I'll check.

Anyway, it's been said before, but I'll repeat it because it's good advice.

Don't piss off people who can spit in your food. ;-)

Cheers
Brian, in Winnipeg


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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:09:16 -0400
From: "Martin Brungard" <Martin.Brungard at trow.com>
Subject: Bland Beer

All this talk of bad beer is somewhat silly.  Saying that brewers like the
Budmilloors of the world make bad beer is ludicrous.  They do make a very
good product...for what it is.  I liken most to something slightly better
than Seltzer water.  We should be saying that these products are BLAND beer,
not bad beer.  We are just blessed with palates that appreciate more
flavorful and charactered beer.

Brooklyn Brewer, Garrett Oliver summed it up well in his presentation at the
AHA conference last summer, those Budmilloors products are just like Wonder
Bread, made for the mass market.  Its too bad that many fancy restaurants
that wouldn't think of serving swill wine or Wonder Bread to their patrons
will limit their beer selection to the Budmilloors type.

Storability of wine is definitely an asset to restaurants.  Sooner or later,
it will move, and it will probably still be drinkable.  Most beer is a
product of youth.  I suppose that the only thing they can do is limit their
stock of beer on hand and keep it moving.  And it doesn't appear that the
profitability of beer versus wine should be a limitation either.  From what I
can tell, a bottle of good beer costs about the same as many moderately
priced glasses of wine.  So, the profit should be similar.  It seems that the
snob factor has a lot to do with the preference for wine at fine restaurants.
The one good thing is that I keep seeing more mentions of fine beers in the
food magazines and food shows that my wife watches.  Some of the food
industry recognizes that there is a place for good beer.  There is hope for a
better beer selection!  Just keep asking for the good stuff.  Don't settle
for bland beer.  

Martin Brungard
Tallahassee, FL


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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:29:34 -0600
From: "Gary Glass" <Gary at aob.org>
Subject: Teach A Friend To Homebrew Day

Once again it's time to spread the love (of homebrewing that is)!  The 
American Homebrewers Association's 5th Annual Teach a Friend to Homebrew 
Day is coming up on November 1st.  This is your chance to show off just 
how cool you are to all those poor unfortunate friends, neighbors, and 
relatives who have never experienced the joys of homebrewing!  Hey you 
could even invite the in laws...well maybe that's not such a great idea.  

Check out www.beertown.org for more details.  Be sure to register your 
site.  Sites registered by October 22 will receive copies of Zymurgy for 
Beginners in the mail.  After the event, go back to www.beertown.org and 
let us know how things went.

Cheers!

Gary Glass, Project Coordinator
American Homebrewers Association
888-U-CAN-BREW
(303) 447-0816 x 121
gary at aob.org
www.beertown.org

[1126.8, 262] Rennerian
Boulder, CO

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