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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Gravity samples, decarbonating (Christopher Swingley)
  head retention (darrell.leavitt)
  Has anyone noticed this before? (darrell.leavitt)
  Re: Hops and Dogs (Travis Dahl KE4VYZ)
  Aereation of wort ("Kenneth Peters")
  Forum and New BeerSmith Release ("Brad Smith")
  AHA & Zymurgy Subscription ("Reddy, Pat")
  Flax/Bad Beer ("Chad Stevens")
  Re:  Beer in Chicago ("mark_zgarrick")
  Confessions of a swill drinking homebrewer ("Jason Pavento")
  Concentration of gelatin in yeast slant ("Robert Jones")
  Haze in dark beer, overnight mashing, and more! (Michael)


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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:46:59 -0800
From: Christopher Swingley <cswingle at iarc.uaf.edu>
Subject: Gravity samples, decarbonating

Greetings,

A couple digests ago a couple people mentioned decarbonating 
post-pitched wort (beer?) samples before measuring gravity.  I'd never 
really thought much about it, but the concept made sense to me -- if 
it's still carbonated, little bubbles will collect or form on the 
hydrometer and raise the vial, making the gravity seem higher than it 
really is.  At least that was my hypothesis.

Today I took samples from a smoked porter, three weeks into 
fermentation, SG 1.064; and from a brown ale, two weeks into 
fermentation, SG 1.042.  I measured the gravities at 1.017 and 1.010 
respectively.  The fermentation temperatures are between 62 - 68, meaning 
the corrected gravities are, at their highest, 1.018 and 1.011.

Sounded reasonable for a final gravity using the ballpark SG / 4 metric 
that I can do in my head.  I typically "bounce" the hydrometer on the 
bottom of the plastic sample tube, and then spin it in the hopes this 
may knock bubbles off and keep them off while I'm reading the gravity.

Next, I put the samples in the microwave, each for a minute and a half.  
When removed they were bubbling slightly and had reached 180 F (not 
boiling).  They cooled for a couple hours and I took gravity readings 
again:  1.020 and 1.012 at 60 F!

There goes my bubble hypothesis.

Any other explanations?  At this point, I'm inclined to simple measure 
the carbonated samples, and use the same "anti-bubble" techniques I have 
been using.

Thanks!

Chris

P.S. heating beer up to 180 F in the microwave doesn't smell that good
- -- 
Christopher S. Swingley          email: cswingle at iarc.uaf.edu
IARC -- Frontier Program         Please use encryption.  GPG key at:
University of Alaska Fairbanks   www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/



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Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:43:47 -0400
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: head retention


You probably already know this, but just in case you don't,...if one uses 
a pound or so of malted wheat, or flaked wheat in the mash, and if you 
avoid the 113->131F Protein Rest "corridor" then this will increase head 
retention...I believe...

Happy Brewing!

 ..Darrell



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Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:53:27 -0400
From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Has anyone noticed this before?


I use a 10 gallon PolarWare pot for mash-lauter, as well as kettle...and 
I'd say every several batches I clean some of the scorching off of the 
bottom...Well, yesterday I noticed that it needed cleaning, but I was not 
in the mood....I used the pot to take 5 gallons of lovely California 
Merlot juice up to 170F...for 1/2 hour, before cooling and pitching some 
116 yeast onto it....

Well,...in cleaning the pot out I noticed that acidity, or something in 
the wine juice made most of the caked on stuff come off very easily...Has 
anyone an explanation for this phenomenon?

Also, while I am on the subject: if you don't want to use sulphites, what 
do others do to kill the wild yeast and bacteria,...or need one be 
concerned?  I know one fellow who just puts an airlock onto the 5 gallon 
pail  that the juice comes in,...and lets it naturally ferment...but I 
would rather introduce the yeast of my choice...but don't want to use 
sulphites...

Pardon the slighly marginal post...from beer to wine...

Happy Brewing!

 ..Darrell



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Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:28:11 -0400
From: Travis Dahl KE4VYZ <dahlt at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Hops and Dogs

John Adsit points out:
>MTE Nutrition advertises a product to reduce anxiety in dogs that contains
>both brewers yeast and hops.

So, basically, if a dog is anxious and neurotic I should just give them a 
beer and say "Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew!"  Wow, saves me a trip 
to the pet psychologist _and_ and I can get rid of the questionable bottles 
in my basement. <grin>

 -Travis
[1.8, 98.3] Apparent Rennerian
A.K.A. Ann Arbor, MI, USA 




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Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:05:13 -0500
From: "Kenneth Peters" <kpeters6 at cox.net>
Subject: Aereation of wort

On the Lallemand website in their procedure for yeast rehydration,
http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/danstarrehyd.html , the last
comment listed under Step 3 states that aeration of the wort is not necessary.
This seems to fly in the face of all that I have read in the past.  Does this
only apply to when using dry yeast? Is this just an attempt to make the
process look simple to encourage beginners, or am I taking this statement out
of context? Any thoughts on this?

Ken Peters
Tucats Brewery
Harrah, Ok



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Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 09:26:37 -0400
From: "Brad Smith" <beersmith at beersmith.com>
Subject: Forum and New BeerSmith Release

We have also opened a general discussion forum
for brewing topics at:
  http://www.beersmith.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi

We have also released a new version of BeerSmith:
  http://www.beersmith.com

New features include refractometer tools, arbitrary
unit entry, better international support and more.
Here are the new features:
  http://www.beersmith.com/whats_new_in_1_2.htm

Cheers!
Brad



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Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:32:26 -0500
From: "Reddy, Pat" <Pat.Reddy at mavtech.cc>
Subject: AHA & Zymurgy Subscription

Has anyone else had subscription troubles like I'm having?  I joined the AHA
and never received my Zymurgy subscription.  Eventually they got things
straightened out - or so they said - and I received 3 back issues and a
subscription the following month, then - nothing.  I haven't seen anything
in several months.  When did the last issue come out?  Was it a good one?


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Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:54:02 -0700
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
Subject: Flax/Bad Beer

Jim Steinbrunner asks:

Point 2: I have recently become more interested in fiber for reasons I won't
go into >:^O . The mucilaginous coating on flaxseed that Chad mentioned is
high in soluble fiber, which is good for digestive health, but may not be
very appealing to add to one's diet (think Metamucil).

Reply:

For foam stability purposes, were talking about pentose sugar additions on
the order of .05 to .1 %.  This translates to about 3 oz of flax seed (the
coating makes up about 10% of the seed by weight) in a five gallon batch (my
calcs are rough, that could be off by 100% or more).  There are about 9
teaspoons in an ounce of flax X 3 = 27 teaspoons in a five gallon batch or
about 1/2 teaspoon per 12 oz bottle.  Pentose sugars do not affect viscosity
appreciably until you reach about  the 1% level or ten times more than we
are talking about using.

Being concerned about cholesterol and regularity (I could start the gyno
thread going again if y'all'd prefer) I eat one tablespoon of flax with
breakfast each morning.  This is enough to get the good oil (omega-3 fatty
acids) I want and not so much that it's got me flowin' like a fire hydrant.

So at the dosing rate I'm playing with, you'd have to drink six brews to
equal the amount of flax I'm consuming on a daily basis with little laxative
affect.

FWIW
- ------
from: "Martin Brungard" <Martin.Brungard at trow.com>
Subject: Bland Beer

All this talk of bad beer is somewhat silly.  Saying that brewers like the
Budmilloors of the world make bad beer is ludicrous.

Reply:

You are absolutely right.  I'm sorry I called Bud a bad beer.  It was
"bland" to style.  And you won't find Wonder Bread in my house either.

Guess it's the old subjectivity of quality thing (for all you "Zen and the
Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" fans).

Cheers,

Chad Stevens
QUAFF
San Diego



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Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 00:11:15 -0500
From: "mark_zgarrick" <mark_zgarrick at ameritech.net>
Subject: Re:  Beer in Chicago

Hey Rick,

Andrew C mentioned the Goose Island brewpubs, and I totally agree.  I'd hit
the Clybourn location, as it is the original.  They always have at least 12
different brews on tap, as well as something special on the beer engine.

Chicago has a lot of great beer bars as well.  A very short cab ride from
Goose Island is The Map Room, at 1949 N. Hoyne (corner of Hoyne and
Armitage).  The Map Room specializes in Belgians, but they offer other
excellent imports and micros.  Here's what they currently have on tap...
http://www.maproom.com/beer.htm.

I don't think you'll find anything down by McCormick Place, so plan on
cabbing it around.  Even if you just go to The Map Room and/or Goose Island,
you will not be disappointed.

Cheers,
Mark Z, Chicago



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Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 08:09:36 -0700
From: "Jason Pavento" <jpavento at entravision.com>
Subject: Confessions of a swill drinking homebrewer

I am a home brewer, beer snob and craft beer drinker and I
would like to
proclaim that I have been known to consume COPIOUS AMOUNTS
OF BUD LIGHT
and I'm PROUD OF IT. I am tired of posts that go like this:
"Oh, Father
Yeastie I had 2 Labbatt Blue's at a party the other day. I
am so sorry
for what I've done. Will St. Saaz ever forgive me?"
"Yes, my son. Recite the Reinheitsgebot seven times and
drink 3 Chimay
Reds and your sins shall be forgiven."

I like to go to dive bars (more my kind of atmosphere than
sports/yuppie
bars) and Bud Light is what I will drink when I'm there
rather than pay
the price for whatever, most likely, -OLD- 'craft' beer
selection they
have (usually just crap like Killians or *shudder* Sam
Light). Or
sometimes I just don't feel like paying $7 or $8 for a
six-pack. 

I prefer to keep my beer options open and will drink a wide
range of
styles from a wide range of brewers rather than confine
myself to only
drinking 'Belgians from Trappist Monasteries' or some such
silliness. For
me, that's the same as saying "I only listen to pure
Norwegian Black
Metal". Sure, you get to call yourself a "Real" Black Metal
fan, but you
miss out on so much more.

As far as beer selection in restaurants goes, maybe I'm
lucky, but most
places I go -at least- have Harpoon IPA (YUM!) so I am
usually taken care
of. I also don't think you should be embarrassed to ask for
a recitation
of the beers available. If you are a beer snob - BE PROUD
OF IT AND STOP
WHINING.

Again, maybe I'm really lucky, but off the top of my head I
can think of
at least 3 restaurants/bars with real good beer selections
in my area. My
favorite is Union in Weymoth, MA. They have a beer menu
with 100+ beers
on it and a "99 Beer" club. When you finish 99 beers you
get a plaque on
the wall with a quote from you engraved on it (mine said
"Katie, will you
marry me?" - yes, I am the coolest person you don't know.) 
Also there is The Horseshoe Pub in Hudson ("No crap on
tap") and Sunset
in Boston (over
100 taps and an awesome beer menu).

Sorry for the venomous, opinion fueled post, none of it is
directed at
any one person - just at the thought that we all have to be
beer snobs
and that the ones that are have to feel embarrassed by it.
I was just
gettin' tired of hearin' about it.


Jay
If it's beer - IT'S _ALL_ GOOD


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Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 11:31:13 -0700
From: "Robert Jones" <brew.oregon at comcast.net>
Subject: Concentration of gelatin in yeast slant

I'm trying my hand at yeast culturing for the first time, but a few
questions are in order. I researched it pretty well, using teflon lined
screw cap vials, processing them for 20 minutes in a steam bath.  Instead of
a loop, a microbiologist friend recommended I just use sterilized toothpicks
(it's what they use in their lab - just put them in your autoclave/steam
bath/pressure cooker/etc. along with your vials with media).  I innocculated
the slants about 4 days ago from a wyeast tube, and I now have definite
little colonies growing, all are off-white, uniform in color and circular
(at least where they aren't bunched up running into each other).

I made up my media using 1 cup of 1040 wort and 2 packets of knox unflavored
gelatin.  This made a nice firm slant, but after seeing many recipes they
call for only about half that much.

Are there negative effects from using gelatin at this higher concentration?
For example, will it slow their growth, or should I just not worry?

One last question - judging the progress so far, I don't think it will cover
the surface of the slant within a few more days (1 week total at room temp).
Should I just refrigerate what I have, or let it sit another week at room
temp?

This is the California Lager #2112 by the way.

Thanks,
Robert Jones
Portland, OR





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Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 22:33:26 -0500
From: Michael <grice at binc.net>
Subject: Haze in dark beer, overnight mashing, and more!

I've noticed that, while my pale ales and lagers might have a little
chill haze (especially since I can't seem to remember to either rehydrate
the Irish moss or add it at the appropriate time), my dark beers almost
always have had a permanent haze. I'm talking chocolate milk here. 

The one exception I can think of was a partial mash, the last beer I
made before I went all-grain. This includes a couple of porters, another
stout and a porter-like brown (against 6-7 pale ales, 3-4 other ales
and a lager).

I can think of a couple of reasons why I'm getting the haze. Besides my
Irish moss problems, I believe the wort is going through my counter-flow
chiller too quickly and I'm not getting enough of a cold break. I think
the brown wound up at 90 degrees after cooling, in fact.

I have to wonder, though, if there isn't something in the mash chemistry
that causes this (especially since the lone exception was a partial
mash). The only consistent thing I've done in the mash is to add the dark
grains with the pale malt, which would lower the pH of the malt. Nothing
else is consistent--sparging technique or even water. I started using
bottled water in there somewhere, and it happens regardless of whether
or not I do batch sparging or whether I don't sparge at all.

Any thoughts, oh mighty beer gurus? Is this a coincidence (there are
admittedly a lot of variables unaccounted for here). Should I add the
specialty grains at sparging? Should I use a quick protein rest? Should I
trust that improvements in my cooling technique will solve the problem (or
at least reduce it to a chill haze)? Do I need to watch my mash pH more
carefully? The last one would surprise me. I'll probably degas the brown
ale and fine it with polyclar or whatever the approriate fining agent is.

********************************************************************

On another note, I posted a few months ago that I had made a pilsener
with an overnight mash. The basic procedure is to bring it to just
boiling, cover it, then let it sit overnight before finishing it the
next day. By bringing it just to a boil, I am in effect pasteurizing the
wort.

To my taste, I can't find any flaws in this beer I can attribute to the
mashing procedure. It's not as crisp as I'd like, but I didn't use as
large a starter as I would have liked either. It's a little dark for the
style, but then again I used darker specialty grains than are usually
used. 

Admittedly, the process might result in slightly darker beers because
I am bringing the wort to a boil twice. So it may not be appropriate for
all styles. 

And yes, the pilsener does have a slight chill haze.

********************************************************************

Oh, and does anybody have a recipe for Bell's Third Coast Beer they'd
like to share? I saw the recipe for the Third Coast Old Ale in the last
Zymurgy, but they're not the same beer.

********************************************************************

Oh, and I also got my copy of the latest edition of Noonan's "Brewing
New Lager Beer" last week. I haven't done more than skim through it,
but it does indeed look like a nice book for the intermediate to
advanced brewer.

Michael in Middleton, WI


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