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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Talk Of Iowa-Beer Show-With Garrett Oliver ("Rob Moline")
  Carpet Cleaning (Update) (Jonathan Royce)
  Old lager yeast ("Dave Burley")
  re: dry lager yeast ("Chuck Dougherty")
  Digest search ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Apple smell ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Oregon Brew Crew Fall Classic HB Comp (Brian Butenschoen)
  Re: dry lager yeast (Denny Conn)
  peppers in beer (Walter J Doherty)
  Keg Foam 101 ("Ritchy Henson")
  Helm's test/Petite Mutants (FLJohnson)
  Re: peppers in beer (Robert Sandefer)
  Warning: Beer Contains Female Hormones ("Shane Kirkman")
  Huyghe floris apple ("Roy Strohl")
  Facts on expired extracts? ("Keith Prader")
  Max Grain in Bruheat? (Alexandre Enkerli)


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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 00:05:29 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: Talk Of Iowa-Beer Show-With Garrett Oliver

			Talk Of Iowa-Beer Show-With Garrett Oliver
Folks,
	The WOI/WSUI Radio Semi-Annual Beer Show on "Talk Of Iowa," hosted by
Katherine Perkins, will be coming to you on the 29th of October, 2003, from
9:00 AM CST, until 10:00 AM CST, on 640 AM radio and 910 AM radio regionally
in the Midwest, and via webcast.

     "Talk Of Iowa" on WOI, 640 AM, Ames, Iowa, engages a variety of
subjects from politics to horticulture, and everything in-between on a daily
basis. A recent collaboration extending the range of stations carrying "Talk
of Iowa" includes WSUI, 910 AM, from Iowa City, Iowa.

     This semi-annual Beer Show will feature internationally known beer
expert, award winning brewer and author Garrett Oliver.

	A native New Yorker, Garrett is widely regarded as one of the leading
brewmasters in America. He co-founded the New York City Homebrewers Guild in
the mid-1980's and later left his job with a prestigious Manhattan law firm
to become an apprentice brewer at the Manhattan Brewing Co., the first
brewpub in New York City. He joined Brooklyn Brewery in 1993 and designed
the new brewhouse in Brooklyn. Garrett has judged the Great American Beer
Festival and the Great British Beer Festival, and is widely sought as a
speaker about brewing and beer styles. He founded the New York Area Small
Brewers Guild. He has written for All About Beer, Cigar Aficionado and other
publications. He is co-author of The Good Beer Book, published by Berkeley
Press. Garrett was featured in an "Emeril Live!" segment and is the American
Dairy Association's spokesman on matching beer and cheese.
     His latest book, "The Brewmaster's Table: Discovering the Pleasures of
Real Beer with Real Food," published by Harper Collins, has set a brilliant
new standard for brewing publications.

	Please join us on October 29th, from 9 to 10 am CST for "Talk Of Iowa,"
with Katherine Perkins, in her semi-annual Beer Show, featuring Garrett
Oliver.

	"Talk Of Iowa" on WOI/WSUI, is supported by Lallemand, makers of the
Danstar brand of brewer's yeast, and sponsor of the Lallemand Scholarship,
which awards a member of the American Homebrewers Association a 2 week
"Concise Course in Brewing Technology" to the Siebel Institute, America's
most prestigious brewing academy.

	Web listeners can go to www.woi.org and  click on the green audio streams
link, then the AM Radio link.....
      ....or http://wsui.uiowa.edu/talk_of_iowa.htm and click on Listen to
WSUI....

Cheers!
Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
American Homebrewers Association
Association of Brewers
Court Avenue Brewing Company
Lallemand

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 05:21:17 -0700
From: Jonathan Royce <jonathan at woodburybrewingco.com>
Subject: Carpet Cleaning (Update)

First of all, let me extend a most appreciative thanks to all those who 
responded. Apparently, beer-stained carpets is a hot topic and there are many 
remedies that people have tried and with which people have had success.

For posterity's sake, let me summarize the replies I received off-line:

1. Keep repeating the cleaning with a carpet cleaner until the pad is clean and 
the stain stops wicking back into the carpet.
2. Use "Hot Shot", a product made by the same people who make WD-40.
3. Soak with club soda, apply a towel and some weight to help with drying.
4. Use a toothbrush and Colgate shaving cream. 
5. Go with Oxyclean. Try to apply just enough to clean the fibers but not to 
wet all the way down to the pad. 
6. Use Resolve (although if I didn't mention it, that was the first thing I 
used).
7. Use some Fiber Fresh from ServiceMaster (a 5X concentrate of professional-
grade carpet cleaner).
8. Use ChemDry stain remover. 

These are very brief summaries of the far more detailed replies that I 
received. The reply most indicative of the quality of information on HBD came 
from a person who normally likes to remain nameless on the list, going instead 
by a hyphen followed by a single letter. This person's reply not only offered 
several suggestions for cleaning, but also went on to discuss the chemistry 
involved when various compounds in beer (phenolics, proteins, etc.) are exposed 
to nylon or other polymeric carpet fibers. Damn...I loved that. 

As it turned out, I was impatient and didn't wait for my question to post, so 
Tuesday night I tried the Oxyclean. I used a spray bottle and applied a light 
coating to the fibers, then used a soft "Mr. Clean" brush to work the solution 
in. After letting stand for 5 minutes, I grabbed some cloth diapers and dried 
up as much of the cleaner as I could, then used a fan to complete the drying 
process. The next morning, I could not see the stain and it has not returned 
since, so I think I'm in the clear. 

Now, if anyone knows someone in the market for a townhouse in Merrimack, NH 
(with a freshly cleaned carpet), have them drop me an email!

Thanks again to everyone!

Jonathan
Woodbury Brewing Co.
www.woodburybrewingco.com



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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:15:38 -0400
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Old lager yeast

Brewsters:

Scott in Indy asks about what he should do to use a year old lager yeast from
Wyeast.

When you have a yeast this out of date, it is always a good idea to prepare a
starter to be sure you will get a quick ferment and to reassure yourself that
there is enough active yeast to do the fermentation quickly.

I suspect the lager yeast will prevail at lower temperatures and has a head
start. Nottingham is pretty neutral so should not be a problem. I would make
sure the fermentation is finished before giving it a diacetyl rest. Operating
on the low end of the temperature scale will maximize the lager yeast activity
but take longer.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:24:20 -0500
From: "Chuck Dougherty" <jdougherty at wlj.com>
Subject: re: dry lager yeast

Jay Spies asks if anyone has experience with "Safale dry lager yeast."  I
assume you mean DCL's Saflager S-23.  There was a bit of discussion
concerning this yeast on the HBD a while back, so I decided to try it out
for myself.  I brewed a 10 gal. batch of a very simple Helles (100% pilsner
malt).  I pitched half with White Labs WLP830 German Lager, and the other
half with S-23.  I prepared a half gallon starter for the WLP830 and used
two 11.5g sachets of the S-23, rehydrated per the instructions.  I pitched
cold and fermented at 52 degrees for two weeks, then lagered for six weeks
at 34 degrees.  No diacetyl rest.

The S-23 beer finished a few points higher than the WLP830 beer, just as
predicted by ProMash (and presumably as predicted by the manufacturers).
The S-23 beer had a clean flavor with that hint of sulfur that most of us
look for in a lager.  I did not detect any diacetyl, but I am apparently
one of those people who is not very sensitive to diacetyl, so take that
for what it's worth.

Overall, I prefer the WLP830 in this particular beer due to the higher
attenuation.  There are other styles though where I think the S-23 might
be more appropriate.  Bottom line, I don't think you have to worry about
whether S-23 gives a true lager character, and I would make my yeast
selection based on other criteria.

Chuck Dougherty
Little Rock, AR



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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:27:24 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at umich.edu>
Subject: Digest search

The search on "hubris" is down until I can make it work on the new HBD 
server.  That's because my workplace installed a firewall, and "hubris" 
is behind the firewall.  Then I got sick.  Hopefully it'll be back in a 
week or so.  Meanwhile, you can use the other digest search engine on 
hbd.org.

=Spencer




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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:32:13 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at umich.edu>
Subject: Apple smell

Don Scholl asks:

>I had made a starter of OG 1.077 and a vial of White Labs California Ale
>WLP001 last Tuesday, pitching yeast Wednesday. This fermented at 68 degrees.
>Before pitching to my Christmas Ale, I checked the starter for any odd
>odors. I noticed the smell of apple cider or apple vinegar. 
>
Well, it depends...  I suspect that you were smelling acetaldehyde, 
which is produced naturally by yeast, and is said to smell of "green 
apples."  Acetaldehyde is considered a defect in finished beer, but is 
not at all uncommon in unfinished or "green" beer.  The yeast makes it 
and then consumes it later.  So if this is what you were smelling in 
your starter, it would not have been a problem at all.

However, you also mention that it smelled like "vinegar."  If what you 
were smelling included some acetic acid (the smell of white vinegar) 
than your starter was probably infected and you were right to toss it.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI
(too close to Renner to bother with coordinates)




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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:03:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Butenschoen <Brian_Butenschoen at mail.listtool.com>
Subject: Oregon Brew Crew Fall Classic HB Comp

2003 Fall Classic Homebrew Competition
- --------------------------------------
Fire up your brew kettles 
and make room on the brag wall 
for more ribbons! The Oregon Brew Crew 
presents the Third Annual Fall Classic. 
The date of the competition is
set for November 15, 2003. 
All AHA-sanctioned categories of 
beer, cider, and mead will be judged
and ribbons will be awarded for 
first, second, and third place 
in each category, plus Best of Show. 
The entry fee is $6 and entries
(two bottles) will be accepted 
at the Laurelwood between 
Nov. 1 and Nov. 8. 
To make your life easier we will again
work with the 
Hord's of Fun Registration Wizard
for judges, stewards and beer entries. Goto
www.oregonbrewcrew.com to 
register or for
more information.   

Thanks

Brian "Robbie" Butenschoen
President
Oregon Brew Crew




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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:05:01 -0800
From: Denny Conn <denny at projectoneaudio.com>
Subject: Re: dry lager yeast

I've used it a couple times, once with great results, the other with not so 
great results.  The first time was in a N. German style pils.  I pitched 2 
packs, fermented at 50F, and it made a great beer.  Next I tried it in a 
Dort Export.  3 packs this time, fermented at 45-48F.  This beer turned out 
so weird that I finally asked John Palmer to try it to help me identify the 
off tastes.  He wrote back that it reminded him of a Bartles & Jaymes 
Passion Fruit Wine cooler!  (I don't even want to know how he knew what 
that tasted like!).  He surmised that it might have been a case of 
overpitching, and after hearing Dr. Cone's comments on pitching rate vs. 
ester production a couple months ago, I'm inclined to agree.  I'd say use 
the S-23, but pitch a reasonable amount.

         -------------------->Denny

At 12:22 AM 10/23/03 -0400, you wrote:

>Hey all -
>
>Thinking about making a Northern German Pilsner, and was considering the
>idea of giving Safale dry lager yeast a run....   Potential pros and cons as
>far as I can see:  Pros - it's cheap, so I can pitch a tremendous amount and
>with the right rehydration have commercial or higher pitch rates;  if it's
>pre-sterol-ed like the Danstar products it'll be a strong fermentor and
>oxygenation will not be as much of an issue (tho I'll still do it);  last,
>its easy, so there's no week-long starter buildup - rehydrate and go.
>  Cons - a biggie - the flavor may be a bit estery or without the trademark
>lager sharpness/sulfury/steely characteristic.  I have a temperature
>controlled fermenter, so ferm temperature is not a variable.
>
>Does anyone have any experience with this yeast?  Would like to get some
>feedback before I make the call.  Thanks in advance, as always....
>
>Jay Spies
>Charm City Altobrewery
>Baltimore, MD




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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:10:02 -0700 (MST)
From: Walter J Doherty <wjd at U.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: peppers in beer

In response to J.J.'s inquiry about habenero peppers in beer:

After a barleywine brewing session, my brewing partner and I decided to
make a pale ale off of the second runnings.  We had a few peppers laying
around from making a salsa earlier and thought we'd experiment with a
"chili beer".

With some additional extract, we made enough wort for a 2 gallon batch
with an OG of 1.052.  To this we added about 21 IBU of Northern Brewer,
and boiled.  Right after the boil we added the peppers to steep in the hot
wort for about 15 min.  We used 1/2 of an habenero pepper and 1/2 of a
jalepeno.

Now the beer is ready and it tastes like we added regular old bell
peppers.  Any heat from the hot peppers is not noticable, but the pepper
taste is pretty strong, like the mildest salsa you've ever had.

I'm not sure how to go about getting the heat without the vegetable pepper
flavor.  I wouldn't add any more pepper, since the vegetable taste is
already pretty strong.  (And it's not from oxidation - it's been like that
from the get go.)

I think you're better off if you can add the heat without the pepper.  In
the southwest some specialty tourist shops sell 100% capsiasin (sp?).  You
might be able to make your own by soaking some peppers in vodka or aquavit
for a while to extract the "hot" compounds, then add that.

Good luck,
Wally Doherty
Tucson, AZ


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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:25:51 -0500
From: "Ritchy Henson" <rhenson at skysystems.com>
Subject: Keg Foam 101

I've taken my first steps into kegging - I've purchased all the equipment and
have a keg of commercial beer tapped right now and will be brewing a
dunkle-weizen this weekend for my first batch of kegged home brew.  Kegging
the commercial keg has taught me that It isn't as simple as buying everything
and hooking it up.  The commercial keg I have is Mic. Ultra and I can't even
get consistent information on what to set the PSI to - I've heard from 6 to
25!  I'm sitting around 12 and the beer itself is pretty flat once the picture
of foam has settled down to give me the little beer remaining.  Can anyone
point me to a reference on how to determine PSI, tube length etc?  I'm just
using picnic taps right now with 1/4 inch tubing.  I've order the smaller
tubing, but is the picnic tap an issue?  I am hesitant to keg my home brew
until I get this one working.

Thanks for the help!




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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:25:47 -0400
From: FLJohnson at portbridge.com
Subject: Helm's test/Petite Mutants

Two questions for the community:

1. Can someone provide the details of the Helm's method for measuring 
flocculation?

2. Anyone have an understanding of "temperature shock" and the formation of 
petite mutants? I'd like some in-depth information on this if it's available.

Fred Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:48:36 -0400
From: Robert Sandefer <melamor at vzavenue.net>
Subject: Re: peppers in beer

For a porter, I put 5 fresh Habaneros (deseeded, sliced into strips) into 
the secondary for 7 days.

The beer came out as alcoholic flame with vegetative-pepper (think bell 
pepper) doing backup.

I would recommend no more than 3 Habaneros for no more than 5 days.

I would also suggest using roasted or dry peppers in an attempt not to have 
the vegetative aspect.

Hope this helps.

Robert Sandefer
Arlington, VA



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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:40:54 +1000
From: "Shane Kirkman" <causewaylake at yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Warning: Beer Contains Female Hormones


Warning: Beer Contains Female Hormones

Yesterday, scientists for Health Canada suggested that men should take a
look at their beer consumption, considering the results of a recent analysis
that revealed the presence of female hormones in beer.

The theory is that drinking beer makes men turn into women. To test the
finding, 100 men were fed 6 pints of beer each. It was then observed that
100% of the men gained weight, talked excessively without making sense,
became overly emotional, couldn't drive, failed to think rationally, argued
over nothing, and refused to apologize
when wrong.

No further testing is planned.


_________________________________________

 I don't know if this joke has been posted before. but damn it cracked me
up. Makes me glad I am a distiller :)
 Found at  aus.electronics newsgroup. >>>


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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:18:28 -0400
From: "Roy Strohl" <lstrohl at mwc.edu>
Subject: Huyghe floris apple

Huyghe Floris Apple: Anyone have any experience making a clone of this beer? I
would appreciate hearing from anyone who has had success making this. Thanks
in advance.
lstrohl at mwc.edu



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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:21:45 -0700
From: "Keith Prader" <keith at rifter.com>
Subject: Facts on expired extracts?

Can anyone help me with the simple question of using expired extracts?  I
was given a dozen expired tins ranging from 2 to 1 years out of date.  I
brewed a batch with 2 of them and it turned out very tasty.  It was
obviously darker than the style of recipe I was using, but that doesn't
bother me.

Is there anything wrong with using expired extracts?

Thanks in Advance,
Rif



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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:48:43 -0400
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: Max Grain in Bruheat?

So I use a Bruheat boiler for every step of the brewing process 
(including mashing). So far, I've been quite happy with it so, please, 
no flame/troll...

Anyway, if other people here use a Bruheat for mashing, what's the 
maximum amount of grain you've been able to squeeze in? At which 
liquor/grist ratio (mash thickness)?
The reason I ask is that in a somewhat thin mash (1.1qt/lbs) with a lot 
of grain (5.75kg), I can get boil-overs during the mash. OTOH, never 
had any scorching or other problem associated with the Bruheat. The 
solution should be to bring down the liquor/grist ratio but, then, 
what's the minimum?

I'm thinking about experimenting with extreme amounts: 8 kg of grain, 
14 quarts water for a 0.80 quart/lbs ratio and a 21.5 l total mash 
volume which should fit in the Bruheat but is in fact quite thick 
(about 1.65l/kg). As I've got some dead space between my false bottom 
(plastic bucket with holes) and the bottom of the boiler, this could be 
a recipe for disaster. So (thinking out loud), the idea might be to 
progressively add grain and water until I reach the limit capacity, but 
it doesn't sound really easy...

Hence the need for advice...

Thanks in advance, guys!

Alex, in Montreal
[555.1km, 62.8] Apparent Rennerian



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