---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Merry Christmas! (Pat Babcock)
  Squeezing the bag (Jeremy Struffert)
  Re: Ale Sweedish? ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Tannin squeezins' (Pat Babcock)
  Temp Control ("A.J deLange")
  gluten free beer (MOWAGNER)
  RE: unusual recipes ("Brian Lundeen")
  RE: Reversing output of Temperature Controller ("Ronald La Borde")
  Brewers' Swap meet ("David Houseman")


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*           The HBD Logo Store is now open!             *
*            http://www.hbd.org/store.html              *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*   Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*                                                       *
*                  MERRY CHRISTMAS!                     *
*                                                       *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 00:10:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Merry Christmas!

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your figgy pudding...

Wishing you all a very safe, blessed and merry Christmas!

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor at hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
                                   - Arlo Guthrie




Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:00:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeremy Struffert <mnbrewerguy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Squeezing the bag

Scott Alfter wrote:
"The recommendation I heard is that you can suspend
the bag over the pot
(flop it over your spoon) and let it drain out for a
bit, but squeezing the
bag can pull out tannins and/or other undesirable
substances.  (Besides, a
bag full of grain that's been sitting in ~150-degree
water is a bit too hot
to handle!)"

I put the bag in a bowl and press the bag to remove a
bit of the excess liquid, I use an oven mitt of
course, and I have never had any astringent qualities
in my beer. Maybe I am just lucky, but then again what
do I know.



=====
Jeremy 
[501.5, 293.2] Apparent Rennerian

Malt and hops may not have inspired 
as many precious pens as the noble grape, 
but they have always provided good company.



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:46:49 +1030
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: Ale Sweedish?

Chad, sorry you're getting this a second time.  Despite my attempts to
walk the mailing list minefield, the first attempt got rejected (I
signed my message, which you shouldn't do).

On Tuesday, 23 December 2003 at  9:15:00 -0800, Chad Stevens wrote:
>> Bob Devine wrote:
>>
>> If you ever wondered where the name (ale)came from, >it is derived from the
>> Sweedish word for beer or ale. >O:l is pronounced something between "ohl"
>> and "uhl".
>
> Bob; Bob Bob Bob....(repeat again while shaking head from side to side).  No
> self-respecting Norwegian can let this one go.
> [lots of interesting stuff omitted]
>
> The Norse raided Galloway Scotland

There's a Galloway in Scotland?  Are you sure you're not confusing the
Scots and the Irish?  You wouldn't be the first: the inhabitants of
Ireland used to be called Scots.  See
http://www.lemis.com/sex-joke.html for more details (and no, it's not
in any way obscene or of dubious taste).

> And I could go on and on.  The point is, there's a whole host of
> evidence linking the English word "ale" to the Old Norse "ol."  I
> couldn't let the modern Sweedish "ol" get all the credit.

Well, Swedish and all three Norwegian languages (along with Danish and
Icelandic) are all derived from Old Norse, so they probably have equal
share in the credit.  FWIW, modern Icelandic is the closest language
to Old Norse.  And as you observe, the word is not spelt "Ol" in any
of these languages; unfortunately, the mailing list policy makes it
impossible to spell it correctly here, but "Oel" might be a workaround
for some of the languages.

Greg
- --
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 07:33:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Tannin squeezins'

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Scott Alfter wrote:

> but squeezing the bag can pull out tannins and/or other
> undesirable substances.

Tannin extraction is a function of pH and not of mechanical
pressure. Squeeze away with no fear of causing tannin
extraction. 

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor at hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
                                   - Arlo Guthrie




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 13:21:14 +0000
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Temp Control

A SPST (switching only the hot side) or DPDT (switching both hot and 
neutral) relay energized by a controller can be used to get either 
direct or reversed output from it. The normally open contacts will 
close when the controller energizes the relay and are thus in the same 
sense as the controller. A load connected to the normally closed 
contacts is energized when the controller isn't and thus inverts. The 
relay coil could be energized by a wall wart connected in series with 
the contacts in the controller, assuming a low voltage coil. Just be 
careful with the load side 110 or 220 wiring.

A week or so ago someone asked about adding the D term to the PID law.

Oj = f{Gp*Ej + Gi*Sum(j)Ej + Gd*(Ej - Ej-1)}

says that the output at sample time j is equal to some nonlinear 
function,f,  of the proportional gain, Gp, times the error at sample 
time j with the error being the difference between the process variable 
and the set point (Ej = PVj - SP)  plus Gi, the integral gain times the 
integral of the error over all time (represented here as the sum of all 
the errors since the controller was turned on) plus the differential 
gain, Gd, times the differential of the error represented here as the 
difference between the errors at time j and the previous sample time 
(j-1). The non linear function f may be as simple as a hard limiter 
which keeps the output between 0 and 100% and inverts the sign of the 
argument or not according as to whether the output is direct or reverse 
acting. In fact it is desirable that f be linear in the non limiting 
region in many applications. The "integrator" and "differentiator" will 
probably be implemented as, respectively, finite impulse response low 
pass and high pass filters so that the integrator "forgets" the distant 
past and the differentiator response is smoothed a little.

The proportional term produces output proportional to the error. The 
integral term drives the error to 0 eventually and the differential 
term allows the system to respond rapidly to a sudden change in 
temperature (if you threw cold water into the mash, for example). The 
three gains, Gp, Gd and Gi, are adjusted to "tune" the system to give 
the desired response dependent on the application.

A.J.



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 12:16:40 -0300
From: MOWAGNER <mowagner at speedy.com.ar>
Subject: gluten free beer

Bill asked:
I'm just curious as to why all these requests
are coming up for recipes using off the wall
grains like sorghum, and all the gluten free
stuff?
Is this because of all the people who are on
the Atkins diet?

>As posted in my email, I'm trying to produce beer for people with celiac
desease.
>They can't eat or drink nothing comming from cereals with GLUTEN, between
them (4) barley, wheat and oat.

Best Regards,

Mauricio Wagner
Buenos Aires - Argentina





Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 09:37:27 -0600
From: "Brian Lundeen" <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: unusual recipes


> 
> Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 16:46:58 -0500
> From: NO Spam <nospam at brewbyyou.net>
> Subject: Why all the 'unusual' recipes lately?
> 
> 
> I'm just curious as to why all these requests
> are coming up for recipes using off the wall
> grains like sorghum, and all the gluten free
> stuff?  
> 
> Is this because of all the people who are on
> the Atkins diet?  
> 

Gluten free recipes are for people with gluten intolerance disorders,
such as Celiac disease. It has nothing to do with low carb dieting.

As for weird ingredients, I figure that's just part of being an amateur.
Many home brewers (and winemakers for that matter) seem compelled to
want to make beverages out of anything that can't move fast enough to
get away from them. ;-) If you want to see the depths to which this can
reach, visit Jack Keller's winemaking site
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/index.asp Head for the recipes pages
and just marvel at some of the stuff he has turned into wine. 

"Another glass of mesquite bean wine"?
"Mmmm, don't mind if I do".

Cheers
Brian, brewing with normal ingredients in Winnipeg


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 10:41:34 -0600
From: "Ronald La Borde" <pivoron at cox.net>
Subject: RE: Reversing output of Temperature Controller

>From: "Brendan Oldham" <brendan_oldham at hotmail.com>
>
>I've got an old (analog? certainly not digital!) temperature
controller
>(110v 18a heat output) that I use to keep my beer warm during the
winter
>months. Anyone know if there is an easy (cheap) way to reverse the
output,
>iow cool (using a fridge) instead of heat? Could I get some
reverse-acting
>relay or switch?  It would have to be 110v all around. If possible,
could I
>do for less than cost of another temp controller?

Yes.

It should possible to use a relay, just as you mentioned. There may be
some issues regarding on/off cycle range (is it 2 or 3 degrees F.),
but probably should work fine. A relay could be found for $10 - $20 or
so.

Ron
=====
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde





Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 12:30:49 -0500
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: Brewers' Swap meet

Buzz will host a home brewer's swap meet on Saturday, January 31, 10-12, at
the Brew By You store in Malvern.   Bring whatever you'd like to sell or
swap and meet other homebrewers to pick up cool stuff or get rid of your
junk.  Excess of something?  Tired of something?  Need something?  Come on
out.  Can't make it on Saturday but still have something to sell?  Put your
name, phone number and asking price on your treasure and drop it off with
Bill on the Friday before.  But it's better to be there in person to
negotiate.

Please pass the word to your clubs and other brewers who may be interested.
If this works out, this could become a regular event!

Dave Houseman




Return to table of contents

---