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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  FW: Your message to McMaster-Carr ("Weaver Joseph T MAJ CENTAF-AUAB CAOC\\SG")
  Re: adding yeast at bottling, or not? Liquid or dry? (Scott Alfter)
  stuck fermentation on a barley wine ("PAUL SMITH")
  Bottle/dishwasher "bugs" (David Harsh)
  Beet Sugar vs Cane Sugar ("Sven Pfitt")
  Yeast Washing/Osmotic Pressure (Travis Dahl KE4VYZ)
  RE: uh-oh, ya got him started... ("Brian Lundeen")
  Micro-oxygenation ("Brian Lundeen")
  Zwartbier (Eric)
  Washoe Zephyr Zymurgists HBC ("John C.Tull")
  re: purging ("-S")


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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:25:55 +0300
From: "Weaver Joseph T MAJ CENTAF-AUAB CAOC\\SG"
Subject: FW: Your message to McMaster-Carr

Not the response I expected based on several posts from the HBD Archives
regarding McMaster-Carr customer service.  I thought this was a pretty
straightforward question. 
Todd in Qatar

- -----Original Message-----
From: McMaster-Carr Supply Company [mailto:la.sales at mcmaster.com]
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 8:33 PM
To: joseph.weaver at auab.aorcentaf.af.mil
Subject: RE: Your message to McMaster-Carr


Hi Todd,


We are not able to advise you on the proper fittings or procedure for
constructing a home-brew system. 

You will probably need to research the information you need on the
internet or at the library.

Brian
 
McMaster-Carr Web E-mail message                              | 1/12/04
+-------------------------------+                             | 08:12 AM
CDT
 
+-------------


Contact Name:      Todd


Message:

I home-brew my own beer, and I am planning to assemble a more efficient
brewing system.  I need to go from a 1/2 inch SS ball valve welded to a
keg to 1/2 " ID Norprene Beverage tubing.  I'm looking at Tri-Clamps.  I
think I need a 1/2 male pipe adapter, a wing nut clamp, and a hose
adapter.  I will probably use the 1/2x5/8x1/16 norprene tubing you sell.
I don't see a 1/2 male pipe adapter or hose adapter on your site.  Am I
approaching this correctly?

Would you recommend any other type of food grade clamp?  Perhaps plastic
disconnects?



Thanks for your help.







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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:23:29 -0800
From: Scott Alfter <scott at alfter.us>
Subject: Re: adding yeast at bottling, or not? Liquid or dry?

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 at 22:22:47 -0800,
Robert Marshall <robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com> wrote:
> I noticed someone posted a msg in the last couple of days where they said
> they always add dry yeast at bottling time and I wondered to myself how
> many brewers actually do that with their homebrew?

I had a few batches in a row where the carbonation was less than ideal.  In
one batch that was nearly flat, I popped each bottle open and added a level
half teaspoon (scrape the top of the spoon with a butter knife) of corn
sugar and a sprinkling of dry yeast.  This got the beer to wake up pretty
nicely.  My last batch was mostly kegged, but I made a few bottles and
primed them this way from the start.  They are also well-carbonated.

I think adding sugar to the bottle was the recommended procedure given in
older homebrew books.  Newer books seem to discourage the practice, but my
limited experience so far is that it yields more consistent results.

As for adding yeast, that's mainly as insurance.  It doesn't take much, but
it doesn't hurt to add some to a beer that has aged a while (like a lager)
since most of the original yeast has fallen out of suspension.  While I use
liquid yeast for fermentation, dry yeast is easier to handle for
carbonation...open the pack, sprinkle a little bit on each spoonful of
sugar, and close it up with a rubber band and stick it in the fridge for the
next batch.

  _/_   Scott Alfter ($firstname at $lastname.us)
 / v \  http://alfter.us/
(IIGS(  Southern Nevada Ale Fermenters Union - http://snafu.alfter.us/
 \_^_/  Beer and Loafing in Las Vegas - http://www.beerandloafing.org/



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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 07:14:08 -0600
From: "PAUL SMITH" <pksmith_morin1 at msn.com>
Subject: stuck fermentation on a barley wine

Your problem is the pitching rate.  Assuming a standard of 1 million cells 
yeast needed per milliliter per degree plato, and assuming you have a batch 
size of 5 gallons, you would have needed about 4.4 E08 viable cells 
initially to give you adequate yeast mass.  The typical large smack pack 
(not sure if you used the XL size or not) of Wyeast contains only .6 E08 
cells.  Next time, I'd suggest stepping up your smack pack or pitchable tube 
to 1.5-2 gallons or so - if you start with a large smack pack in a quart, 
then a quart to a gallon, then another gallon, you will end up with close to 
what you want.  The optimal step increase is 4x or (i.e., 1 qt-1 gallon-4 
gallon, etc.), but bringing it up to 2 gallons in this manner will bring you 
to within range.  The other thing I would do is invest in an oxygenation 
system, and oxygenate fully at each step - merely shaking the carboy won't 
do much.

At this stage, you could try by simply stepping up separately and dumping 
the fresh yeast in your existing beer to get it to rock down some more.  Not 
ideal, but may kick start your fermentation.

At these high gravities, yeast mass and yeast viability are key.  Absent 
these, there is just too much work to do for the yeast straight out of the 
smack pack.  The other thing to consider is that you will not likely get 
down to 1.012 on such a high OG; with 75% apparent attenuation, look closer 
to 5-6 plato finishes (which in my book is fine on such a high starting 
gravity).

Good luck,

Paul 


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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:26:53 -0500
From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
Subject: Bottle/dishwasher "bugs"

> Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> writes:

> Just to add some information, it seems the dishwasher I acquired has a
> problem with its hi-temp wash cycle. It will start, but it won't stop. 
> Under
> the category of documenting a bug and calling it a feature, this does 
> give
> me the option of extending the wash cycle for really filthy bottles....

A bug documented as a feature - is this a M*crosoft dishwasher?    ;)

I had this identical problem on a brand new dishwasher a few years ago 
 - look for the wires that run to the thermocouple and see if they are 
a) damaged severely or b) not connected.  All I had to do was 
(re)connect the lead to the thermocouple post and its worked fine ever 
since.

And yes, I even verified that the water was heated to the temperature 
it was supposed to.

Dave Harsh					Cincinnati, OH
Bloatarian Brewing League



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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 09:11:10 -0500
From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Beet Sugar vs Cane Sugar

In the previous postings it was stated that about half the sugar in the US 
is beet sugar.

I've not been able to find any dry sugar in the local stores that 
specifically states that it is beet sugar.

I have found at least four sugars including Dixie Crystal  "Pure Cane Sugar" 
that state that they are Cane Sugar, somewhere on the bag. Sometimes this is 
in quotes, so I'm wondering if they aren't doing the old marketing 
switch0-a-roo on me.

Acording to the Imperial Sugar Company (Savana GA) web site, Dixie and 
Imperial are made from 100% cane sugar.

Their Turbinado looks like it is not white sugar with molasses added back.

"Gold'N Natural Turbinado Sugar is minimally processed large crystals of 
cane sugar with a mild molasses flavor and golden color.  It has a coarser 
granule than found in conventional sugar. "

Every bag of white sugar I found last night at our regional stores (Whites, 
Food City, and Krogers) were all marked cane sugar.

Can anyone tell me some national brands that are beet sugar?

I guess I'm making better beer than some of  you because I'm using cane 
sugar instead of beet sugar :).....

Thanks.

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian

"There is no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks." Wings Whiplash - 1968



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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:23:49 -0500
From: Travis Dahl KE4VYZ <dahlt at umich.edu>
Subject: Yeast Washing/Osmotic Pressure

So for the microbiology geeks in the crowd:
    Can osmotic pressure differences harm yeast.  Specifically, if someone 
was to use RO/distilled water to wash their yeast, would this significantly 
affect yeast viability?  Could it cause the yeast to actually autolyse?
     I'm partially curious, partially trying to track down what might have 
gone wrong with a previous brew that didn't ferment out enough.

Travis Dahl
[1.8, 98.3] Apparent Rennerian
A.K.A. A2, MI 




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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:15:29 -0600
From: "Brian Lundeen" <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: uh-oh, ya got him started...

> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:35:35 -0500
> From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: Invert Sugar/Citrus-y flavor
> 
> Wes Smith writes of advantages of invert sugar over sucrose  ....
> 

Steve's reply on this matter reminds of a Brad Garrett story (possibly
apocryphal) and a political cartoon...

Brad Garrett, who is a rather intimidating comedian both physically and
verbally, was being heckled one night. He ignored it for awhile, then
finally turned to this brave soul and said, "Sir, the last thing you
want is my undivided attention".

In the cartoon, a couple of unruly kids (labelled as Serbia and Croatia,
IIRC)are scuffling in the background, and Dad (the UN, of course) shouts
back from his comfy armchair, "OK, that's it,.... I mean it this
time,... Don't make me get out of this chair..."

I believe Wes not only got Steve's undivided attention but got him out
of the comfy chair, as well... ;-)

Cheers
Brian, in Winnipeg



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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 10:37:14 -0600
From: "Brian Lundeen" <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: Micro-oxygenation

I picked up this tidbit in a winemaking discussion group...

"Micro oxygenation" is a hot item with technical commercial winemakers.
You 
might find something useful on the pages of StaVin, a supplier of
barrels, 
and tank equipment and process technology in California. StaVin presents

micro oxygenation levels between 1 and 10 mL 02/L wine/month as
desirable. 
They have source information on a special website at:

http://www.micro-ox.com/

Now, this obviously has no interest to brewers, but I figure there are
people here who can relate this to what an air stone can provide. So, my
question is, if I want to introduce 1 mL of oxygen per liter into my
wine(obviously it won't take place over the course of a month, but
rather a burst once a month)), how long would I have to run my aquarium
pump to produce that?

Thanks
Brian


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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:23:40 -0500
From: Eric <edahlber at rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Zwartbier

Hello I was just looking at New Belgium brewery's descriptions of their 
beer and noticed the 1554 Brussels Style Black Ale.
After a search on Google I came up with very little information, (at 
least that wasn't just a copy of what the brewery says or reviews of the 
beer)
The best I found came from Michael Jackson and I quote,"New Belgium's 
interpretation has a grist containing more than 60 per cent speciality 
malts. The emphasis is on malts that are dark, but not necessarily rich 
or luscious. The beer is lightly hopped, but quite assertively spiced. A 
yeast that creates some sourness is used."
So the question is does anyone have more info on this (lost) style?

Eric Dahlberg

[311.3, 78.6] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:31:23 -0800
From: "John C.Tull" <johnctull at fastmail.fm>
Subject: Washoe Zephyr Zymurgists HBC

I want to invite the members of this list to participate in the 2004 
Washoe Zephyr Zymurgists Hombrew Competition here in Reno, NV. We will 
be judging Sunday 29 February 2004, with entries due from 7-21 February 
2004. Last year we had over 100 entries, and the BOS winner brewed 
their beer at the Great Basin Brewing Company. This year's winner will 
brew at Silver Peak Restaurant & Brewery in Reno, NV, receive a $50 
gift certificate for use at the Reno Homebrewer (mail orders ok), and 
receive their very own yard glass.

If you would like to enter your homebrew, or volunteer to steward or 
judge, or for more information, please visit our competition web page 
for all the details, and for online registration. Email me if you have 
any questions.

http://134.197.55.114/wzz/wzz-comp2004.html

I look forward to getting your beer. Best of luck and skill!

John Tull
WZZHC Competition Organizer



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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:23:58 -0500
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: re: purging

Jay Spies correctly notes ....

>Rack.  Pump 35 or so psi of CO2 into the little
>bit of corny headspace.  Vent.  Repeat 4 or 5 times.  Leave the last pop of
>CO2 in.  Voila!  Very very little to no O2.  Age away!

Right, but I *VERY* seriously doubt anyone loads, mixes, vents like this 5
times, and even exposing the beer surface to air will cause more O2 pickup
in the beer than is commercially acceptable.

Kunze suggests that 0.06 to 0.08 mg of O2 per liter of beer in the headspace
is a good figure for bottling (and he assumes very low O2 pickup in
transfer).  Air weighs some 1.3gm per liter and 21% is oxygen (270mg O2/L of
air).  Just to make things easy, let's say you fill some (oversized) corny
with 20L of beer and have 500ml  of headspace.   Kunze's level of headspace
oxygen is equivalent to 5ml (one teaspoon) of *air* in the headspace.

Every time you fill the headspace to 35psig(~50psi absolute),allow the
gasses to mix, then vent back to atmospheric (15psi abs) you get rid of 70%
[ (50-15)/50] of the air from the headspace and retain 30%.

It takes 4 such cycles to drop the air from 500m to under 5ml. and this
assumes perfect mixing, not a quick fill and vent.  5 cycles if you only get
30psig.

Those keg clearing ex post facto methods are ineffective or impractical.
A  workable alternative is Dave Burley's suggestion to fill every ioto of
sealed keg volume with no-rinse sanitizer and blow this out with CO2.  Then
fill the keg w/ beer  thru the connection port w/ CO2 pressure.   This keeps
transfer and headspace O2 very low.

===

Steve Arnold sigs

>-Steve A<<<

Yikes - a forgery !  I've  posted as "stevea at ..." on this forum starting a
decade ago and I've been  "-S" and -Steve" and such for abt a year.   You've
as much right to SteveA as I, but please do something to reduce the
confusion Steve Arnold, cop your own prefix character at least.

 -S (copyright 2004 ;^)




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