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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: NYC Beer (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Does Shangy's top that? ("Scott D. Braker-Abene")
  Re:  I Hate Bottling (Jeff Renner)
  FOAM Cup Entry Window Sep 10-17 ("philosophersstone")
  Fermented Coffee (Alexandre Enkerli)


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Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:57:52 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: NYC Beer

For those of you who know NYC and also know beer, what about 
McSorley's Ale House?

http://www.hoganstand.com/kilkenny/images/mcsorleys/bio_page/mcsorleys.html

Reviews at 
http://www.pubcrawler.com/Template/ReviewWC.cfm/flat/BrewerID=1155 
and 
http://www.worldsbestbars.com/city/NewYork/McSorleysOldAleHouse.asp 
are generally very positive on atmosphere, although a few feel it is 
a tourist trap.  And nearly all praise the ale, but I wonder if they 
are just taken in by the atmosphere.

So, how is the beer?  How would you describe it?  I suspect it's 
American cream ale and American cream ale plus caramel, but I don't 
know.

For that matter, what are your thoughts on the place?

It was McSorley's (the place, not the beer) that inspired my 
McGinty's Irish-American Red Ale 
http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/3848.html#3848-21

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 07:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Scott D. Braker-Abene" <skotrat at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Does Shangy's top that?

Don Hellen Writes: 

"Jungle Jim's grocery store has a selection of over 3,500 beers.

Does Shangy's top that?"

Most definitely Shangy's tops Jungle Jim's. Shangy's is 35,000 square feet of
the best beer distributor on earth. I have been to Jungle Jim's and it is a
great store. It is however no Shangy's. 

C'ya!

 -Scott

=====
"My life is a dark room... One big dark room"
 - BeetleJuice

http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat - Skotrats Beer Page
http://www.brewrats.org - BrewRats HomeBrew Club



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Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:28:34 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re:  I Hate Bottling

I think I may have made this observation after judging the second 
round of last year's NHC in Chicago, but it bears repeating.  I often 
judge pale American lagers, and at this years' second round NHC, at 
MCAB weekend before last and again last weekend at the Michigan State 
Fair, I was disappointed in the many examples of oxidized beers that 
were evidently not bottle conditioned, judging by the lack of 
deposit.  There were examples of the same problem in IPAs, though not 
as many.

It's ironic that in the case of the NHC second round and MCAB, these 
were the best brewers showing off their best beers.  And in the case 
of the State Fair, it was probably the more advanced brewers who had 
draft systems and were bottling from the tap, either CP or just with 
a tube.

It has been well recognized for years, especially by British beer 
authors like Michael Jackson, that bottle conditioned beers are more 
stable.  It's not that the yeast actually consumes all the O2 in the 
head space (I think George Fix demonstrated this).  I think that it 
is that yeast is a powerful anti-oxidant.

Our club brewed a Classic American Pilsner (CAP) for the 2000 
National Homebrew Conference in Livonia, MI.  We carefully 
counter-pressure bottled hundreds of bottles with an efficient 
bottler that pico-Brewing Systems' Mike O'Brien fabricated.  It looks 
a little like a drill press, and really worked well.   The beer was 
fine at the conference, but despite all the care that went into 
purging the bottles before they were filled, in six months, the 
remaining bottles had oxidized badly, even though they were 
refrigerated.

My conclusion is that counter-pressure bottling is problematic.  A 
second conclusion is that brewers of delicate styles should rebrew 
for MCAB and NHC second round.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 10:15:01 -0500
From: "philosophersstone" <philosophersstone at gbronline.com>
Subject: FOAM Cup Entry Window Sep 10-17

Fellow Homebrewers,

The Fellowship of Oklahoma Ale Makers (FOAM) invites you to
enter, to judge, and to participate in FOAM Cup 2004. The
entry window for this BJCP-certified competition is
September 10-17, with judging set for September 24 and 25 in
Tulsa, Oklahoma. Once again, FOAM Cup is part of the High
Plains Brewer Competition. It is the fourth of six High
Plains events this year. Individual and club points earned
at FOAM Cup will count toward the 2004 High Plains Brewer of
the Year, and Club of the Year awards. Please ship or
deliver your entries to the Mecca Coffee Company in Tulsa,
OK to arrive between September 10 and 17, 2004. The fee for
everybody is $6 per entry. Get all of the details, rules,
and entry forms at the FOAM web site, www.alemakers.com.
Potential judges and stewards please contact the FOAM Cup
2004 Judging Director at rogueale at earthlink.net. 

Robert Gulley, Competition Organizer
okierat at alemakers.com

Jeff Pursley, FOAM President
philosopher at alemakers.com


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Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 12:42:43 -0400
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: Fermented Coffee

Jon Olsen in Minny, MN, wondered:

> 1) coffee contains sugar, how else does roasted coffee get carmelized, 
>  right?
Right. But the proportion of sugar in a coffee bean must be pretty 
small. The berry's pulp should be much better in this respect.
Now, one thing to keep in mind is that the taste of (brewed) coffee 
comes as much from roasting as from the green bean itself. This is easy 
to notice when you homeroast. So even if you do succeed at using any 
kind of unroasted coffee product, bear in mind it won't taste like 
coffee.
Another thing is that coffee's very sensitive to overextraction. Think 
of the difference between a well-made espresso and the kind of coffee 
you get from those huge office percolators. Long term extraction by 
mashing or fermentation might also have unwanted results.

No idea where to get berries but green beans are very easy to find. 
Among the best known resources is:
http://www.sweetmarias.com/
Of course, you can't use green beans for anything you'd use berries 
for. But if you want to experiment with these two beverage hobbies, I'd 
suggest starting with green beans.

BTW, a friend has mentioned a drink made with green coffee beans and 
cardamom. Didn't really look for information on it but I do have green 
beans and cardamom pods. Does anyone know how to make this green coffee 
beverage?
In books about coffee history, they do talk about people using green 
beans and roasting only becoming popular fairly late in the game.

> 5) should I *drink* as much coffee as I just did before posting to hbd?
Well, some HBDers probably had a pint before posting at one point or 
another and it doesn't seem to have killed anyone just yet. Aren't we a 
very understanding bunch?

AleX in Montreal
[555.1km, 62.8] ApparentRennerianCoordinates



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