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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re: Re: Spruce beer (Teresa Knezek)
  Seefahrtsbier - curiouser and curiouser (bob.devine)
  re: clear vs. dark (Mark Tigges)
  Fort Collins Water ("A.J deLange")
  Re: Ft. Collins water ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  BTU output appropriate for brewing ("Ken Taborek")
  Re: Steam Injection (Gary Spykman)
  Re: Rapadura Sugar (plus new invert sugar q) (Denny Conn)
  BABBLE Brew-Off 2005 ("Bruce Dir")
  Re: Rapadura (Don Trotter)
  Competition Announcement ("Bruce Dir")
  Steam injection (Bart Thielges)
  I want more Malt Flavor! (Brendan McGinn)
  Uerige Sticke Alt (Randy Ricchi)


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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 20:14:16 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <mivox.mail at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Spruce beer

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 22:47:09 -0500, Scott and Cherie Stihler
<stihlerunits at mosquitonet.com> wrote:
> The interior of Alaska where I live has only black and white spruce.
> I've used both with good success.

Thanks Scott! Clarification please though: Do we have anything BUT
black and white spruce around here, as far as evergreens go? I confess
(now that the beer is in the fermenter, so it is well and truly too
late) I'm no botanist, and just assumed the trees around my house were
spruce. Didn't really occur to me that they might be pine or fir...
*grin*

So it goes... we'll see how it turns out in a few weeks either way, as
I also did not use new, spring growth (however, I got one offlist
reply from someone who'd used winter pickings, and said his beer had a
nice spruce flavor to it, so I assume that is not an automatic death
knell for the batch).

I ended up using approximately a cup of branch tips, adding 1/2 of it
with 15 mins left in the boil and the rest at the end (however, my
propane tank ran out sometime during that last 15 mins, so I've no
idea how much boiling any of it got... at least it ran out the last 15
mins and not the first 15).

[Note to self: Buy 2nd small propane tank as a backup. Next time it
will almost certainly run out during the first ten minutes of a batch
you're boiling at midnight.]
- --
Teresa Knezek
rant.mivox.com
[2855.5, 325] AR


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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 05:17:33 +0000
From: bob.devine at att.net
Subject: Seefahrtsbier - curiouser and curiouser

Thanks to everyone who helped with my German translation or
looked for more information about the Seefahrtsbier style.

Groggy discovered a link that described the beer as alcohol free
and he suggests that it might be akin to drinking wort.
Marty found some information that Seefahrtsbier is somehow
used to fight scurvy.  Dr. Udo Kraushaar wrote directly to
me that he checked the Bremer Ratskeller but it turned out
that it is sells wine, not beer, and didn't know anything
about it.  Darn.

There are some inconsistencies in the story.  What self-respecting
sailor would bother with a non-alcohol beer?  Especially at what
is presumably an important annual celebration?  It is conceivable
that a very young beer would be used as a change of pace, most
other cultures use a non- or low-alcohol beer for children and
mothers (see malta).  And where does the anti-scurvy characteristic
come from?  Might there be an adjunct to increase vitamin C?

An uncommon German beer is/was brewed with a non-attenuative yeast.
The ludwigii yeast in a Ludwig Malz bier produces a sweet, malty
beer.  Might this be the same?

Bob Devine


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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 23:44:04 -0800
From: Mark Tigges <mtigges at shaw.ca>
Subject: re: clear vs. dark

Apologies.

I have been corrected both online and offline.  I was unaware that the
first e is dropped in ein Dunkles.  Presuming, as with Helles that
it's correctly ein Dunkeles.  I was quite mistaken.  I haven't looked
it up, but I'm willing to trust the experts.

As one responder noted, German grammar is in fact mehr spass als ein
Fass affen.  Or is it affen Fass, damn! :)

I'm sheepishly slinking back into the darkness.  And I knew I should
have left well enough alone!

Mark.
Vancouver, BC.


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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:13:33 +0000
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Fort Collins Water

A couple of things to keep in mind when looking at a water report: The 
values reported for various parameters may have been obtained from 
different samples taken at different time or they may be averages taken 
over several measurements with the measurements spanning various time 
periods (quarter, week, month, year.....). Second, the water will have 
been treated in various ways before it is put into the distribution 
system. Part of this treatment may involve pH adjustment. The most 
popular way to raise pH in a water plant is to add lime (calcium oxide 
or calcium hydroxide). Lime may also be added to increase the hardness 
of the water in order to protect the linings of the distribution mains.

The values going into the distribution system look pretty good for Pils 
to me. It might be nice if the chloride were a little higher and the 
sulfate and alkalinity a little lower and this could be acheived by 
dilution with deionized water and a pinch of salt.

A.J.


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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 09:12:27 -0500
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <hbd at spencerwthomas.com>
Subject: Re: Ft. Collins water

Todd writes:

>Since Budweiser has a brewery here, I'm assuming that Fort Collins water 
>must be suitable for Pilsnser lagers.
>
Actually, probably not a good assumption.  According to the information
I received touring the AB plant in St. Louis (during MCAB many years
ago!) AB treats the water until it's "identical" to St. Louis water
before using it.  This is one of the ways they get consistency in their
beers.

=Spencer



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Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 10:55:29 -0500
From: "Ken Taborek" <Ken.Taborek at verizon.net>
Subject: BTU output appropriate for brewing

Brewers,

I've just moved and had to leave behind my grill which was attached to the
house natural gas.  Attaching this grill was the biggest favor the prior
owner could have done for me, as I love to grill and the added convenience
of not having to fill propane tanks greatly increased my use of the grill.

So now I'm looking for an appropriate grill to install at my new home.
There are a lot of models with a side burner, and typically this side burner
has a higher BTU rating than any of the individual internal burners, in the
range of 12,000 - 16,000 BTUs.  This side burner seems like it might be
appropriate for boiling wort.

I've always had difficulties maintaining a good rolling boil on my stovetop
(BTU output unknown, but my guess is 9-12k and probably on the lower end of
that range), and I'm looking at the side burner as a source of more energy
for a brew kettle.  I'm looking for recommendations on what BTU rating is
adequate for bringing 5-8 gallons of wort to a good rolling boil.  I'd
appreciate replies that don't state the obvious "more is better", as the
cost of the grills increases in a non-linear fashion as the BTU output
increases.  I'd prefer to take a minimalist approach rather than throw money
at the problem.

Thanks in advance for any replies!


Cheers,
Ken




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Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:06:34 -0500
From: Gary Spykman <mail at gjwspykman.com>
Subject: Re: Steam Injection

In HBD #4716 Bart Thielges asked about Steam injection mashing. As 
this seems to be my one area of expertise in brewing, my "claim to 
fame", I guess I'll chime in here.

Bart, I too read the BT article you referred to:
http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.4/jones.html.

Since I have a commercial wallpaper steamer, I decided to use that 
for my steam source: It's much simpler and safer than the pressure 
cooker arrangement described in the article.

After experimenting with the technique I became convinced of its 
benefits. But I, too, hated the amount of stirring needed to keep the 
temperature even throughout the mash. So, being a gadget-head, and a 
seat-of-the-pants engineer (and a lover-of-hyphenation), I built a 
semi-automated system based on steam injection. Thus was born the 
Steam Injected Mash Mixer (SIMM).

There was some discussion of this last fall on the HBD, and in 
response to some questions then, I put together a web site for 
"show-and-tell":
http://www.gjwspykman.com/simm/simm.html

Admittedly, this is not the "obvious easier solution" you asked 
about. Not in terms of construction anyway. But come brew day it's 
the bomb, especially if you like to do step mashes. By the way, since 
putting together that web pictorial, I have continued to refine the 
device. I am currently in the process of replacing the needle valve 
(which controls the steam) with a solenoid valve which will be 
controlled by my Ranco temperature controller (which is usually 
hooked up to a chest freezer for controlling fermentation temps).

Steam Rules!

- -- 
Gary Spykman
G.J.W. Spykman, Furniture & Design
Keene, New Hampshire
e-mail: mail at gjwspykman.com
web site: http://www.gjwspykman.com
SIMM Brewery Pages: http://www.gjwspykman.com/simm/simm.html


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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 08:36:59 -0800
From: Denny Conn <denny at projectoneaudio.com>
Subject: Re: Rapadura Sugar (plus new invert sugar q)

Jason, I regularly use up to 20% cane sugar in Belgian beers and have no 
problems with either fermentation or flavor.  I've come to the conclusion 
that much of the worry about using sugar is based on myth.  I certainly 
wouldn't bother going to the effort of inverting the sugar unless you 
detect some additional benefit from doing it.  I'd encourage you to try 
using just plain old cane sugar the next time you want to add sugar and see 
for yourself.

         ------------------>Denny Conn

At 11:16 PM 2/8/05 -0500, you wrote:

>On a related topic, I've recently brewed an old ale where I made some invert
>sugar and added it to the wort.  Since then, I've read Fix's book that
>states that yeast use an invertase enzyme that inverts sucrose anyway before
>it is metabolized.  Is it really necessary to invert sucrose before use?  I
>thought I've heard elsewhere that sucrose is not a good adjunct in beer for
>some reason.  Maybe in moderation?  However, I've successfully used sucrose
>in peach wine made from my peach tree.  (Please don't ask me how to grow
>peaches in North Dakota.   My tree was in Colorado.)
>
>Thanks for the bandwidth,
>
>Jason Gross
>Mandan, ND




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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 10:43:07 -0600
From: "Bruce Dir" <Bruce.Dir at grainger.com>
Subject: BABBLE Brew-Off 2005

Entries are being accepted for the 2005 BABBLE Brew-Off Homebrew
Competition at the Onion Pub & Brewery, Lake Barrington, IL   02/01/05 
through 02/19/05.  

To find out details on shipping and drop off points and to access entry
forms and labels go to the BABBLE Club website.

   http://hbd.org/babble/

THIS IS ALSO A CALL OUT TO JUDGES!  If interested, please contact Scott
Clement at 847-587-5320 or e-mail babble_brewoff at comcast.net.

Cheers,
Bruce Dir
Brew-Off Organizer


Bruce W. Dir
Sr. Compensation Analyst
W.W. Grainger, Inc.
847.535.1520
bruce.dir at grainger.com


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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 12:13:57 -0600
From: Don Trotter <donniestyle at directlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rapadura

Jason Gross asked in which issue that Charlie Papazian wrote about
rapadura.
Zymurgy, May/June 2004, World of Worts column, article name "Wild
Women IPA."

I've recently been able to locate authentic rapadura on the internet.
I googled rapadura, and it can be purchased through Amazon at a
ridiculously high price.  The ones I brought back from Brazil cost
less than a dollar for 400g.



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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 12:30:07 -0600
From: "Bruce Dir" <Bruce.Dir at grainger.com>
Subject: Competition Announcement

Entries are being accepted for the 2005 BABBLE Brew-Off Homebrew
Competition at the Onion Pub & Brewery, Lake Barrington, IL   02/01/05 
through 02/19/05.  

To find out details on shipping and drop off points and to access entry
forms and labels go to the BABBLE Club website.

   http://hbd.org/babble/ 

THIS IS ALSO A CALL OUT TO JUDGES!  If interested, please contact Scott
Clement at 847-587-5320 or e-mail babble_brewoff at comcast.net.

Cheers,
Bruce Dir
Brew-Off Organizer



Bruce W. Dir
Sr. Compensation Analyst
W.W. Grainger, Inc.
847.535.1520
bruce.dir at grainger.com


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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:40:36 -0800
From: Bart Thielges <bart at landport.net>
Subject: Steam injection

Dan Listermann writes on steam injection to the mash :

>I tried it back in the late 80's. 
>It worked but I didn't feel it made my beer any better and, while fun, I 
>decided that it was not worth the bother.
>  
>
Dan - what kind of mash schedule were you comparing with while
you were experimenting with steam ?   I'm hoping to improve upon
a single infusion schedule.  If its not worth the bother over single
infusion, then skipping the protein rest would speed up my brew
day.

>... The 
>connection between the boiler ( a pressure cooker ) was made with the metal 
>corrugated flexible gas hoses you see of gas stoves and such...
>
Did you feel that the corrugated flexible gas hose suffered
any metal fatigue from flexing during the stirring motion ?

I'm thinking of trying a preassembled length of SS mesh jacketed
hot water hose : the kind are used to connect between the sink's
faucet and the stopcock to the house plumbing in the wall.  I know
that they can handle 150F water at 80PSI.  I am hoping that the
hose doesn't fail at 220F and 15PSI.

Thanks for the insight.

Bart



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Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 16:56:43 -0600
From: Brendan McGinn <bmcginn at herflyawaymanner.com>
Subject: I want more Malt Flavor!

> I have been brewing with extract successfully for about 6-7 months- 
> maybe 15 batches, and I love it, - I make a batch almost every week, 
> although I have not yet
> repeated a recipe, which is the true test of a brewer, "that was good, 
> but can you do it again?"  I have found while making stouts and pale 
> ales and IPA's
> that I am more of a hop-head than some of my friends, and after 
> sitting down and tasting a few batches, - my beer lacks malt 
> character, - my brown ale, had a mellow bitterness,  but I wanted more 
> malt flavor.  the recipe was -
>
> .75 lbs Crystal Malt
> .5 lbs Chocolate Malt
> 5 lbs Amber Malt Extract
> Hops-
> 1.25 oz Willamette - Boiling hops
> . 75 oz Willamette - Finishing hops -add and boil 5 min
> WHITE LABS Dry English Ale YEAST -#007
>
> I guess I do a partial/ MINI mash- good head retention, but what can I 
> add for additional flavor?
>
> Thanks
>
> Brendan McGinn
>



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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 22:07:30 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Uerige Sticke Alt

A few days ago (SuperBowl Sunday), I had a bottle of the famed Uerige 
Sticke Altbier.  I had recently read a blurb in Malt Advocate magazine that 
this beer was now being sold in the U.S., but if I recall correctly it 
stated that the distribution was limited, at least initially.

It was quite a surprise to me to see it stocked in a fairly small liquor 
shop I infrequently visit here in da U.P. of Michigan.

It really is a wonderful beer, malty and hoppy, beautifully balanced, I'd 
love to make this beer but at only 25% German heritage I may not be 
qualified :^)

Anywho, on the label it lists the ingredients: wasser (I know what that 
is), Gerstenmalz (never heard that term; what type of malt is that?), 
Caramelmalz, Rostmalz, Doldenhopfen, Uerige-hefe.

So, I assume The Uerige-hefe just refers to the original yeast they've 
always used (correct?), but what is Gerstenmalz and what type of hop is 
Doldenhopfen?

This would be a nice beer to have a lot of, but at $3.99 per 11.2 oz bottle 
I'll probably just enjoy the memory.



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