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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: bottling from kegs (asemok)
  stock pots (John Schnupp)
  Yeast propagation (FLJohnson)
  Re: Oxygenation and yeast (Jeff Renner)
  Increasing Diacetyl (Alexandre Enkerli)
  RE: Pumping Sparge water (eIS\) - Eastman" <stjones@eastman.com>
  tubing ("Janie Curry")
  Can I use an Igloo type cooler with a water heater element? (CRESENZI)


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
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Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 23:06:21 -0500
From: asemok at mac.com
Subject: Re: bottling from kegs


On Mar 14, 2005, at 10:45 PM, "Sajec, Mike TQO" <msajec at tqs.com> 
wrote:

> They keys to filling from a keg are:
> 1) Make sure that your keg & beer are reasonable cold
> 1) Chill the bottles
> 2) Drop the keg pressure (~3psi) for a slow fill
> 3) Insert tubing, or a bottle filling pipet that will fit snugly into
> keg faucet
> 4) Fill the bottles... I fill mine nearly all the way to the top.  
> There
> really isn't any need to leave head space.
>

Absolutely correct...and just add in one other step before filling the 
bottles..PURGE the bottles with co2!
Makes all the difference.
  I've been bottling this way for about 20 years and had great results.  
If your sanitation is good, you can bottle strong, laying down, long 
aged brews this way too.  In fact I just popped a bottle of Scotch Ale 
brewed in 1994, bottled in '95, and stored in bottle at cellar temps 
and it was smooth as silk with no off tastes.  After 15 years!!!!   The 
co2 purge is an essential step.
cheers,
AL



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Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:45:57 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: stock pots

I just got a catalog in the mail today.  Looks like a good deal on aluminum
stock pots.  I know there is the whole Al v. SS thing but for those that might
be interested:
http://www.agrisupplyco.com/cgi-bin/cgipagls?s=stock+pot



John Schnupp, N3CNL
Blue Moon Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200


		


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Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:50:50 -0500
From: FLJohnson at portbridge.com
Subject: Yeast propagation

With the recent thread on yeast starters, I'm perplexed about those who
recommend protecting starter cultures from the heat of the stirrer. The yeast
grow faster at elevated temperatures. I've never read anything that says any
harm can come from propagating yeast at elevated temperatures, and I wouldn't
be a bit surprised if the commercial producers propagate their yeast at
elevated temperatures. 

Remember, in a starter, especially one in which we're going to decant the spent
medium off of the flocculated yeast, we're not making beer; we're growing
yeast. 

Fred Johnson
Apex, North Carolina


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Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:36:03 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Oxygenation and yeast

"Ronald La Borde" <pivoron at cox.net> wrote:
>  >From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
>  >
>  >I typically use strips of wood
>  >about 1/4 in in height. Sometimes a ringstand for stability.
>
>Dave, I often wondered If I was the only one that tried to minimize
>heat from the stirrer. I have used two or three beer coasters as
>insulators, easy, and seem to help a lot.

But heat, up to a point, is good for speeding up yeast growth. 
Commercial yeast growers use temperatures of mid 80's F (low 30's C) 
or so, as I recall.  That's about where my stir plate heats my 
starter to.  Lager yeasts reproduce faster at an even higher 
temperature than ale yeasts.  See the yeast growth chart at 
http://www.wyeastlab.com/education/edtempch.htm.

There seems to be the argument that you should grow your yeast under 
similar conditions (temperature and SG) to that which you'll be using 
it to "acclimate" it, but my understanding is that this isn't 
necessary, as long as you don't shock the yeast by rapid temperature 
drops (faster rises seem to be OK).

My understanding is that it isn't necessary, or even good, to grow 
your yeast in a starter of the same SG that you will be pitching it 
into, as Dave Burley suggested.  I learned yeast growing from Dan 
McConnell, former HBDer and owner of the late, lamented Yeast Culture 
Kit Co (YCKCo).  He recommended 50 grams of dry malt extract per 
liter plus 1/16 tsp yeast nutrient, which gives a quite low SG - 
around 1.020, I think.

Wyeast recommends starter gravity of 1.020-1.030 
http://www.wyeastlab.com/education/edmyp.htm

I make up 7 quarts (liters) of starter using the above proportions 
and pressure can them in quart canning (mason) jars in a big 22 quart 
(21 liter) pressure cooker.

I make a starter, either from a vial of yeast or reharvested yeast, 
in a one gallon (3.78 liter) glass jug - the kind fresh cider used to 
come in before plastic jugs.  The bottom is slightly convex, which is 
a bit of a bother for keeping the stir rod centered, but no bit deal.

I use filtered air (0.5 micron) from an aquarium air pump thru a 
plastic air "stone).  This is made up of a series of rings.  By 
loosening the spacing of the rings, you can adjust the fineness of 
the bubbles.  There is no need whatsoever for fine bubbles as they 
must make too much foam.  Coarse bubbles provide all the O2 that the 
yeast can use.  Way more, as a matter of fact.

No need for fancy airlocks - I just wrap a piece of aluminum foil 
across the top of the jug.  The air flow is more than enough to keep 
nasties out.

I decant the spent starter off the yeast before brewing, then add 
cooled wort to the jug and use the stir plate to break up the clumps 
of yeast and get it suspended.  Then I add it to the cool wort in the 
boiler (I use an immersion chiller).  I continue to recirculate the 
wort with the fitting out of the boiler cracked open a bit to pull in 
air.  The pump impeller breaks this air into very fine bubbles.  I 
will typically pull the wort for the yeast at 70F (21C) or so, then 
add it with the yeast back in while I cool to whatever temperature is 
my target - 65 F (18C) for ale, 50F (10C) for lager, all the while 
continuing to recirculate and aerate.  Then I pump to the fermenter.

These techniques give me good results.

Jeff

PS - Don't forget to vote for the AHA Governing Committee at 
http://beertown.org/homebrewing/membership/elections.aspx.  There are 
some familiar regulars on HBD that are running.  If you aren't a 
member of AHA, you should be!  You can join online at 
http://beertown.org/homebrewing/membership.html
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:56:49 -0500
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: Increasing Diacetyl

JeffR's post about "dropping" mentioned that it increased diacetyl, 
which he doesn't seem to like.
A local brewery (Mishawaka Brewing Company) is well-known for go 
overboard with diacetyl. Now, some beers shouldn't have any diacetyl 
and too much diacetyl wouldn't be so good but it might be nice to 
experiment a bit with controlling diacetyl levels.

So... Is there a rundown of ways to increase diacetyl levels?

Slainte!

AleX in South Bend, IN
[129.7mi, 251.5] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:20:53 -0500
From: "Jones, Steve \(eIS\) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
Subject: RE: Pumping Sparge water

Dave Riedel from Victoria BC writes about a problem with air in the line
when pumping sparge water:

> The problem I'm having is with hot sparge water. I'd like to pump hot 
> sparge water from ground level up to my sparge tank at a height of 
> about 3.5 feet. I'm having trouble with air in the line. I wondered if

> the source was air in the water breaking out of solution as the water 
> is brought to around 165-170F without being boiled.  Not boiling is 
> the difference between the wort which pumps just fine, and the sparge 
> water which does not.  The air in the water line eventually builds up 
> in the pump until it cavitates and stops moving the water.
>
> **Does anyone else have trouble pumping hot sparge water?

I have been having this very same problem, though I use the standard
3/8" ID vinyl racking tubing which is rated for 165F. I'm set up with
the HLT and boiler on the same level, and the mash tun above to gravity
feed wort to the kettle. I have to pump the sparge water - here is my
configuration:

     MT
      B
      F
      |
      |         Kettle              HLT
      |            B                 F
      |            F                 |
      |            |                 |
      +------------+-------+---B-----+
                           |
                           F
                       pump inlet


B is a ball valve, F is a Flare connection, + is a tee or ell. The lines
are 3/8" OD copper. The pump outlet has a ball valve with a barbed
fitting, to which is clamped a 6' length of 3/8" ID vinyl tubing. This
feeds to the top of the MT.

After seeing the air bubbles in the line when pumping sparge water, I
assumed that there was some leaky connection somewhere in the right side
of the plumbing, probably in the homemade bulkhead fitting or the flare
connection, and could never find it. However, I have split a mash and
used the HLT as a boiler and didn't have the air problem when pumping
wort to the fermenter. And after reading Dave's comments, I have to
wonder myself where this air is coming from. Is it possible that the
suction is creating enough of a vacuum to cause air to be pulled out of
the water at 165F?

I'd be very interested in hearing any theories on this problem,
especially whether or not it is introducing excessive air
(oxygen) into the mash as I sparge it, and how to correct it.

Steve Jones, Johnson City, TN
State of Franklin Homebrewers (http://hbd.org/franklin)
[421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] AR







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Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 23:22:58 +0000
From: "Janie Curry" <houndandcalico at hotmail.com>
Subject: tubing

I went with either Norprene or Santoprene tubing from McMaster Carr to 
handle boiling hot liquids between the kettles and pump.  It's pricey.  I 
also went with silicone to go from the chiller to the fermentor.  Also went 
with some sweet butterfly style aluminum quick disconnects.  Now, if I could 
only get settled in the new home and get it out of storage so I can brew.

Looks like Jim at Sea is suffering from the same problem I sufferred from 
about this time last year when I did my time in the sandbox.  Access to the 
internet and lots of time to think about brewing lead to the design of the 
new system.  Jim, check out the kegs from SABCO.  I went ahead with a 10 
gallon system, although I have brewed for years with a very simple 5 gallon 
setup. Have only brewed one 5 gallon batch on it before it was put away in 
storage.  However, I brewed with a friend who upgraded to a 10 gallon system 
this past weekend.  It was out first 10 gallon batch.  It's nice to have the 
option.  We decided to split it and ferment with 2 different yeasts.  You 
could also go with party gyle.  It's your call.

Todd in Fort Collins



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Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 16:49:12 -0800 (PST)
From: CRESENZI <cresenzi at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Can I use an Igloo type cooler with a water heater element?

Has anyone a good reason I cannot use an Igloo type
cooler to make an electric brew kettle. I would mount
a water heater element through a drilled hole in the
side of the cooler. Can it withstand boiling water? I
will also use one for a HLT and Mash Tun. Any insite
would be helpful.
Anthony Cresrenzi
Ellington CT.


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