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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  No-sparge efficiency ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Infusion in small vessel ("Dave Draper")
  Ascorbic acid vs. sodium metabisulfite ("JONES,AARON K")
  re: HSA...-S's sulfur comment ("Chad Stevens")


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
                  and Spencer Thomas



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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 23:04:11 -0500
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at spencerwthomas.com>
Subject: No-sparge efficiency

I posted this in 1994.  It bears occasional reposting.  One 
nit-picking correction: in the first paragraph, I use the word
"sparge", where "lauter" is really the correct term. :-)

Here's a table I use to for making high gravity beers from
first-runnings, only.  I then sparge second runnings to make a weaker
beer from the remaining extract.  The method is this: mash with the
specified water-grain ratio, then drain the bed dry.  Use these "first
runnings" for your strong beer.  You can sparge as fast as it will go,
because if your mash is properly mixed, the sugar in the liquor and in
the grain are in equilibrium, so no extra sugars will be extracted by
going slowly.

How to read the table: the first column is quarts of water per pound
of grain.  The second is the specific gravity of the run-off in
"points" (e.g. 105 means 1.105).  The third column is quarts of
run-off collected per pound.  The final column is your extract
efficiency in pt-lb/gallon.  These are pre-boil figures, so if you
boil down from 6 to 5 gallons, you'll get another 15% or so (e.g.,
1.105 -> 1.120, which I actually got in my most recent "bombastic beer"
attempt). 

	qt/lb	SG	collect	extract
	1	105	 .4	10
	1.25	 90	 .65	15
	1.5	 80	 .9	18
	2	 60	1.4	21

These numbers work for my system, and were determined by experiment.
Your mileage may (will?) vary.  I'm assuming that each pound of wet
grain absorbs .6 quarts of water.  A recent article in Brewing
Techniques gave a figure of .4 qt/lb, which would obviously increase
the amount of run-off (and would improve the efficiency).

=S



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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 06:27:53 -0700
From: "Dave Draper" <david at draper.name>
Subject: Infusion in small vessel

Dear Friends,

Todd in Ft. Collins asks about difficulties hitting desired temps 
under a range of infusion vs. direct heating scenarios.  My two 
cents:

You're probably right that spending too much time during direct 
heating can have a negative impact on your resulting wort, and 
infusions are thus a good way to avoid that.  I've never added cold 
water to my grain, but simply added the water heated to the 
temperature calculated to make the mixture what I want it to be.  I 
generally add half my grain to the vessel (I mash in a converted 
sankey keg), then half the water, stir thoroughly with my paddle for 
a couple of minutes to make sure there are no doughballs, then add 
the rest of the grain and the rest of the water and repeat.  Never a 
problem, and I consistently get better than 30 ppg with fine results 
in the finished beer.  So one easy answer is just don't bother mixing 
with cold water at all.

As for calculating the proper temps, there are lots of writeups out 
there for doing this, and it's included in most all of the brewing 
software that's out there.  Both ProMash and Suds have modules for 
making the calc, and both have a term called "thermal mass" which is 
basically a fudge factor that helps account for the fact that your 
vessel will absorb some of the heat from the water, thus requiring 
higher temp or more water to get the same final T.  For example, I 
need to set that value to 0.35 in my system (determined strictly by 
trial and error) in order to hit my targets, which I do to within one 
degree C every time.  On my beer page is some venerable work from 
Kelly Jones way back when that allows you to compute this stuff by 
hand.  

I also live at high elevation (about 5600 here) and I never have a 
problem with mashes getting too thin; my water boils at 95 C and my 
initial mass ratios range from 2.3 to 2.5 (kg/l).  When I add my 
mashout infusion it's a lot thinner but by then I don't care, of 
course.  So there should be no trouble doing what you are aiming for.

Hope this helps,

Dave in ABQ
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
David S. Draper, Institute of Meteoritics, Univ New Mexico
David at Draper dot Name
Beer page: http://www.unm.edu/~draper/beer.html
Don't pick your nose. ---Domenick Venezia






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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:44:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "JONES,AARON K" <kjones1 at ufl.edu>
Subject: Ascorbic acid vs. sodium metabisulfite

Which is the preferred method for oxidation prevention?  It would 
seem that sodium metabisulfite would be preferred for preventing 
HSA, as it is farily stable (unlike ascorbic acid, which is 
degraded by light and heat).  However, given the added sodium and 
some folks sensitivity to sulfites, it would seem that ascorbic 
acid would be preferred post-fermentation.  Does this sound 
reasonable?  I have had some moderate oxidation problems with my 
kegged beer, so I'm seeking to prevent it in the future (I always 
handle the beer carefully, but sometimes it seems it's 
unavoidable).  Or is a small sodium metabisulfite addition in the 
mash enough to carry you all the way?

Kyle



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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:44:22 -0800
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
Subject: re: HSA...-S's sulfur comment

Steve Alexander wrote something that I'd like to comment on:

"My hunch is that lager yeasts are
the better sulfite producers, and most ale yeasts - not so much."

That had been my assumption as well, but recently, I've been using ale 
yeasts at lager temps just to see what would happen; the results have been 
interesting.  For example, I made an alt using WLP001 (California Ale 
yeast). I started the ferment at 55f and dropped it into the 40's the next 
day.  The result was a noticeably sulfury edge that lingered for several 
months.  A typically European lager note.

Point is, I think the free sulfur metabolic pathway may be switched on as a 
result of ambient temp as much as it is a function of yeast specie.  I've 
seen this in several strains now.

Comments?

Chad Stevens
QUAFF
San Diego 



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