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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  no-sparge efficiency (Fred L Johnson)
  Hitting Mash Temps Infusion vs direct heating (Steven Parfitt)
  Re: no-sparge efficiency ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  RE: Hot side aeration (jbryant)
  8th Annual Palmetto State Brewers Open ("H. Dowda")
  Yeasts for Winter (Glyn)
  Bacteria and Methanol ("Michael Kolaghassi")
  Re: Hot side aeration ("steve.alexander")
  Re;  boiling water infusions vs. direct heat ("William Frazier")
  Re;  How to calculate no-sparge recipes ("William Frazier")


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
                  and Spencer Thomas



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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 07:50:02 -0500
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com>
Subject: no-sparge efficiency

Spencer provides us gravities from some of his no-sparge, first 
run-offs in which the water:grist ration was varied. The product of 
mash-volume and gravity are quite variable, suggesting that Spencer is 
getting significantly different degrees of conversion at these 
different water:grist ratios. This surprises me. In my humble opinion, 
something seems amiss here.

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 05:50:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Steven Parfitt <thegimp98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Hitting Mash Temps Infusion vs direct heating

Todd in Ft. Collins commented about having difficulty
hitting his temps.

One thing I find is that I have more difficulty in the
late fall/winter than I do in the spring/summer.

Obviously, this is because I brew tun in the garage
which shows considerable temp variation. I just did an
infusion mash (all day mash) and had to use 9qts of
water at 175F to hit 152F with 9# of grain.

During warmer weather I could get by with 165F water.

This is in a 5 gallon gott cooler.

Because I can't add enough boiling water (only room 
for one gallon left) to get it up to 168F for mash
out, I will do a partial-decoction to get up to temp
when I get home.


Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian 

"There is no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks." Wings Whiplash - 1968


 


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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 09:16:47 -0500
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at spencerwthomas.com>
Subject: Re: no-sparge efficiency

If you look at the product of the total water * SG "points", you will
see that it's pretty constant.  The values for the 4 rows of the table
are, respectively, 105, 113, 120, 120.  It is entirely possible,  at the
low water-grist ratio, that the grains are not fully wetted, and thus
not fully converted.  With that little water, the grain bed is minimally
wet, with almost no free liquid showing between the grains.  Or, even if
the starch is converted, that the concentration gradient is not
sufficiently strong to bring the mixture to equilibrium.

=S

Fred L Johnson wrote:
> Spencer provides us gravities from some of his no-sparge, first
> run-offs in which the water:grist ration was varied. The product of
> mash-volume and gravity are quite variable, suggesting that Spencer is
> getting significantly different degrees of conversion at these
> different water:grist ratios.


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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 09:19:24 -0500
From: <jbryant at wrsystems.com>
Subject: RE: Hot side aeration

Steve,
Thanks for the elucidation.  Now I think that I should get one of those
tall round coolers for mashing instead of my shorter rectangular one.
But, your comment about using judgment on when to use the metabisulfite
brings me to another question.  Basically, I need some of your judgment
until I get some of my own.  I've decided to brew the Westvleteren 12
clone from Beer Captured.  It's a beer that could be aged for a while
(if I can control myself).  Would you use the campden tabs when brewing
this beer?

By the way, I concede the point that we (brewers) should use the
culinary distinctions between fruits and vegetables vice the botanical.
The cucumber beer was terrible! ;-) 

V/r
Jason in Norfolk, VA




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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 06:27:21 -0800 (PST)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: 8th Annual Palmetto State Brewers Open

Final date to enter is November 27.

http://www.sagecat.com/psbo8/psbo8.htm


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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 07:22:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Glyn <graininfuser at yahoo.com>
Subject: Yeasts for Winter

In the  summer we chat about what yeast to use for the 
warmer temperatures. What are your favorites for the winter? 
Favorite way to keep the fermentors warm? How important 
is a stable temperature? This time of year my fermenting 
room fluctuates 10^F on some days.

I just brewed a Vienna, and planned on pitching  Wyeast 
2112 California Lager Yeast. Smacked the pack on 
Tuesday, still was not fully swollen on Friday. Made a 1 
gallon starter and pitched to that Friday evening. It was 
fermenting slowly at pitch time Sunday afternoon, but I 
didn't trust it to pitch to the whole 13 gallon batch. 
Therefore, I used Nottingham on 8 gallons.

The Nottingham was bottled the other day, tasting wonderful. 
The 2112 started much slower, and had not quite finished yet.

Possible winter yeasts: 

2112 California Lager Yeast. Particularly suited for producing 
19th century-style West Coast beers. Retains lager 
characteristics at temperatures up to 65^ F, (18^C) and 
produces malty, brilliantly clear beers. Flocculation - high; 
apparent attenuation 67-71%. (58-68^F, 14-20^C) 

1728 Scottish Ale Yeast. Ideally suited for Scottish-style 
ales, and high-gravity ales of all types. Can be estery with 
warm fermentation temperatures. Flocculation - high; 
apparent attenuation 69-73%. (55-75^F, 13-24^C)

1007 German Ale yeast. Will ferment cold; 55^ F range, 
(13^ C) producing lager characteristics including sulfur 
production. Style is noted for dry, crisp characteristics.

I like the Belgian yeast but they don't produce the desired 
effect at cooler temperatures in my experience.

Glyn
So. Middle TN









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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:47:06 +0000
From: "Michael Kolaghassi" <kolaghassi89 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Bacteria and Methanol

Hey everyone,

Someone told me that I was taking a risk by homebrewing because there's a 
risk for bacteria contaminating my batch of mead and metabolizing the sugar 
into methanol alcohol, which is toxic, instead of the ethanol that yeast 
produces.
He said that commercial brewers hire chemists and scientists to make sure 
there batch is safe and that supposedly in Mexico people have died from 
drinking stuff that was actually methanol. Is this true or a common problem?

Thanks,
Michael K.



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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:26:24 -0500
From: "steve.alexander" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Hot side aeration

jbryant at wrsystems.com wrote:
> Steve,
> Thanks for the elucidation.  Now I think that I should get one of those
> tall round coolers for mashing instead of my shorter rectangular one.
> But, your comment about using judgment on when to use the metabisulfite
> brings me to another question. [...]

   Re igloo coolers .. generally the deeper your mash/boiler the better 
(less surface
per volume).  Jason didn't ask, but I think it's unlikely that a partly 
lidded mash or
boil helps much (there is about 3psi of partial pressure forcing new 
oxygen in as
it is lost).

> It's a beer that could be aged for a while
>(if I can control myself).


That's the primary reason.   Now some people claim that a 3yo
trappist ale is 'sposed to taste a little oxidized, but that's a special 
case.

I think there are (at least) 3 things to consider.  1/ How long do you 
intend to
keep the beer?  If it's a light session beer you'll drink up in 2 month, 
and your
procedures are decent then maybe you don't care much.  2/ How subject
is the beer to oxidation damage ?  Dark beers, esp bocks and festbiers
*sometimes* oxidize in a hurry.   Some claim the melanoidin compounds
catalyze redox exchanges.   3/ Is light color important to you ?  If you are
making pils or a light weizen then metabisulfite will lighten color.  4/ 
Will you
bottle condition ?  FWIW I have occasionally (and sometimes horribly)
experienced yeast autolysis in a bottle conditioned beer, but otherwise 
bottle
conditioning has a remarkable preservative effect making other measures
aimed at flavor stability unnecessary.

One other odd consideration - these low levels of sulfite seem to be 
entirely
ignored by brewing yeast, but if you are making a lambic with a succession
of different microbes, then almost certainly the sulfite will stop many 
of the
non-yeast ones.

Still - I think it's a very useful thing to experiment with a known 
quantity, an
experimental control, so next time you make your stock ale, or whatever
your household standard is, add half a campden tab per gallon of 
finished beer
to the mash and see what YOU think.

> By the way, I concede the point that we (brewers) should use the
> culinary distinctions between fruits and vegetables vice the botanical.
> The cucumber beer was terrible! ;-) 
>   
Uhhgg !   Now curcurbits have a strange and powerful impact on my digestive
system, moreso than an under attenuated & yeasty beer, and if you 
combined the
two you'd probably see the first human aeolipile (Hero's engine).  Nah, 
Peter
Ensminger won me over, barley is the fruit I prefer in beer.

 -S



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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:30:46 -0600
From: "William Frazier" <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re;  boiling water infusions vs. direct heat

Janie Curry writes "And, for a couple of batches, I added grain to hot water 
in my igloo mash tun to immediately reach mash temperature.  I heated the 
strike water 16 or so degrees more than the mash temp and adjusted from 
there.  Then it dawned on me that the whole point of mashing-in with cold 
water is to prevent the formation of starch lumps."

I've prepared my mash just like Janie describes above for well over ten 
years.  You can't just throw all the grain in the water and mix it up.  It 
takes about 5 minutes to slowly add the grain while stirring with a long 
spoon.  I never have starch lumps in the mash.  IMO it's a much better way 
to prepare a mash in the batch sizes most homebrewers work with.  With 
experience you can hit your desired mash temperature within a degree or two 
and it's quick.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA 




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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:35:32 -0600
From: "William Frazier" <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re;  How to calculate no-sparge recipes

Janie Curry asks how to calculate no-sparge recipes.  Here's a way to do it 
if you work in 5 to 6 gallon batches and use a 5-gallon Igloo for your mash 
tun.  I call it a "semi no-sparge" mash method.  I start with 1.4 times as 
much grain as I usually use.  The mash is prepared as usual and I can easily 
fit this amount of grain and brewing water in the Igloo.

I use a refractometer that reads in Brix to measure the fermentables in 
wort.  If I'm making a beer with starting gravity of 1.044 this is about the 
same at 10.8 brix.  I coined the term "brix points" to use in my "semi 
no-sparge" system.  A five gallon batch of beer with a starting gravity of 
10.8 brix will have 54 "brix points" of fermentables {5 x 10.8 = 54}in the 
kettle at the start of the boil.  After the mash has rested for the usual 90 
minutes I quickly run wort into the kettle.  Using the refractometer I 
measure and calculate "brix points" until I have the desired fermentables in 
the kettle.  Here's an example;

Chinook Ale, 5 gallons at specific gravity 1.044 (10.8 brix)
Target "brix points" = 54
10.5 pounds grain (1.4 times amount needed when doing a normal infusion 
mash)
3.25 gallon brewing water
Mash at 152F for 90 minutes
Additional hot brewing water is added to the Igloo at this time.  Do not 
mix.

Run 2.0 gallons wort into the kettle, measure brix and calculate "brix 
points"
~19.6 brix = 39.2 "brix points"

Add 1.0 gallon wort into the kettle, measure brix and calculate "brix 
points"
~18.2 brix = 54.6 "brix points"

The sparge was stopped.  The three gallons of wort was diluted to my usual 
6.5 gallons starting boil volume by adding brewing water to the kettle. 
Following the boil and cooling 5 gallons of wort had a starting gravity of 
1.045...very near the target for this recipe.

The specific gravity of the final wort running into the kettle was well 
above the usual specific gravity 1.010 that I usually have at the end of a 
sparge so there's quite a lot of fermentables left in the Igloo.  I'm hoping 
that this method will avoid extracting harsh elements and result in maltier 
beers.

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA





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