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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  RE: Subject: Bacteria and Methanol (Steven Parfitt)
  Re: Bacteria and Methanol (Dylan Tack)
  HCl to adjust pH? (JSC-NS\)[AND]" <steven.j.daniel@nasa.gov>
  MASH party (Darryl Hickey)
  Re: Sherry Pyment from F-pack ("Kevin Morgan")


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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:51:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Steven Parfitt <thegimp98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Subject: Bacteria and Methanol

"Michael Kolaghassi" Pondered  
Subject: Bacteria and Methanol

Hey everyone,

>Someone told me that I was taking a risk by
>homebrewing because there's a risk for bacteria
>contaminating my batch of mead and metabolizing the 
>sugar into methanol alcohol, which is toxic, instead
>of the ethanol that yeast produces.
>He said that commercial brewers hire chemists and
>scientists to make sure there batch is safe and that
>supposedly in Mexico people have died from 
>drinking stuff that was actually methanol. Is this
>true or a common problem?
>
>Thanks,
>Michael K.

I would challange your friend to produce a single
credable source for this info.

Every single case of methanol poisoining I have read
about in the past ten years was from ethanol
intenionally spiked with methanol. I have not been
able to find a source of a single case of methanol
poisoning that was from a simple fermentation of wort,
mead, grapes, etc,  or from a spirit distilled from
said without the addition of adultrants.

 

Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery  http://thegimp.8k.com
Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian 

"There is no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks." Wings Whiplash - 1968



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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 13:37:28 -0600
From: Dylan Tack <dylan at io.com>
Subject: Re: Bacteria and Methanol

> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:47:06 +0000
> From: "Michael Kolaghassi" <kolaghassi89 at hotmail.com>
>
> Someone told me that I was taking a risk by homebrewing because  
> there's a
> risk for bacteria contaminating my batch of mead and metabolizing  
> the sugar
> into methanol

Michael, you needn't worry about methanol.  It's produced in such  
tiny quantities that it's not an issue; there is more methanol in a  
glass of apple or orange juice than a glass of beer.  Regarding  
stories of moonshine-induced blindness, I suspect that it was  
*deliberately* cut with methylated spirits to make it cheaper.

To make methanol requires formaldehyde.  You can see the pathway here:
http://www.genome.jp/dbget-bin/www_bget?path:sce00680
The main source in brewing is demethylated fruit pectin, so the  
levels are higher in fermented fruit drinks (cider, wine, etc), but  
still low enough to be safe.

HBD regularly gets questions about health risks, and the consensus  
seems to be that the risk is minimal.  I wish I could find some good  
data to support this, but I think the reality is that "homebrew  
poisioning" is practically unheard of.  I would attribute this to two  
factors:
- -- The brewing process is inherently resistant to most pathogens.   
Illiterate peasants have been safely brewing for millennia, and their  
product was often safer than the available water.
- -- Evolution has equipped you with extraordinary chemical senses, and  
contaminated beer usually tastes and smells BAD.

 -Dylan



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Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 08:40:40 -0600
From: "Daniel, Steven J. \(JSC-NS\)[AND]" <steven.j.daniel at nasa.gov>
Subject: HCl to adjust pH?

I have been reading with some interest the different
techniques/chemicals used to acidify mash and sparge liquor, and I have
some questions regarding the use of hydrochloric acid.  My brewing water
is drawn from a 700 food deep well and very closely mimics Munich water.
The hardness is in the 150-180 range, almost all from calcium carbonate,
and all other minerals are very low.   The pH of this water is about 8.2
from the tap. I do not pre-boil to remove carbonates, but instead I
adjust on the fly with phosphoric or lactic acid.  This got me thinking
that if I adjust the pH with HCl, I would introduce chloride, which
should be beneficial to flavor and fullness in small quantities.
Chemically, this should have the same net effect as introducing calcium
chloride to soft water, which I think is a common practice.  The
literature I've read covers several types of acid, but none of it
mentions HCL.  So here's my questions:

Am I missing something regarding the use of HCl, and if not, why don't
more people use it?

When using phosphoric acid, what is the flavor contribution of the
calcium phosphate that is produced, and what is its eventual fate?  Does
the phosphate have a positive nutritional value for yeast?  

What are the positives/negatives for the calcium lactate formed by
addition of lactic acid?  




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Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 09:22:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Darryl Hickey <djhbrew98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: MASH party

MASHers,

Ok the party is set December 16 around 01:00pm. 
Start thinking of what food item(s) will will bring
and email the group.

All so MASH is in need of our original incoperation
paperwork (Artical of Incorperation book). Some MASHer
has it and I need it. It is costly to reorder it. So
please look in all thes old boxs, recipe files or any
where you put our old MASH stuff. All past officers
please look in every thing.


 


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Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 18:27:13 -0500
From: "Kevin Morgan" <kmorgan1 at localnet.com>
Subject: Re: Sherry Pyment from F-pack

In Digest #5091 (Sorry, just catching up), Ale-X said:

>Got a couple of spare sherry "FPacks," from Winexpert. They seem to
>contain grape juice concentrate along with "selected special
<ingredients sourced around the world which contribute to natural
>flavour and aroma."
>http://www.winexpert.com/blocks/dsp_fpack_popup.cfm

>These are supposed to be added to wine as a "suessreserve" at
>stabilization, after fermentation, and might contain
anti-fermentation
>agents.
>But I'm thinking about using one of these packs in a mead, especially
>if I can source inexpensive honey.
>Any advice on a "sherry pyment" made with a "flavour pack" from a
wine
>kit maker?

>After the mid-September discussion of Schramm's method, I'd probably
>use the incremental nutrient/energizer method for the mead. I might
>also make a much weaker mead than is usually preferred.

I've made several of the wineexpert kits with the F-pack.  The F-packs
are
added AFTER stabilizing.  Don't count on the F-pack containing
"anti-fermentation"
agents,  other than that I can't think of any reason not to use them
in a Pyment

Kevin




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