---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Lots of stuff (Mike Charlton)
  plastic bottles, faithful?, breath (Russ Gelinas)
  RE: Warming Winter Wort (foster)
  Various, incl. request for help ("FEINSTEIN")
  Note of interest ("FEINSTEIN")
  Re:  where to get bottles (Ed Falk)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #526 (October 26, 1990) (Kevin Karplus)
  Bass approximate (Rick Goldberg "Demo Engineer")
  Bulk supplys (jwhite)
  Warming Winter Wort (Dave Durkin)
  AHA Competition (Dave Suurballe)
  The Nature of Dry Yeasts (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Subscribing to list (#ROSS27)
  Beer Evangelism ... (gt4393c)
  yeast recycling (krweiss)
  Flowers in beer, big fermenter (Paul L. Kelly)
  Warming Winter Wort (bob)
  HB Digest (Ken Buswell)
  Re: How to obtain bottles??? (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Oct 90 03:57:14 CDT
>From: Mike Charlton <umcharl3 at ccu.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Lots of stuff

A few things I'd like to comment on:
  1) Yeast Culturing book.  It's available from the AHA for $4.25 + shipping.
     The phone number is (303) 447-0816.  It's a pretty good book, and as far
     as I can tell, the methods work.  We've done about 5 batches from our
     cultured yeast so far.  Definitely worth while.
  2) Those AHA people on CI$ who don't read HBD.  Why is this?  I'm pretty
     sure they can subscribe to HBD from their CI$ account.  Maybe someone
     should tell them that we exist.  It would be nice to have some of the
     higher up people in the AHA taking note of some of the things that go
     on here.
  3) BJCP and the National Competition.  I've never entered this competition
     before, so what I have to say may not mean much, but I'd say that with
     the size of the competition there are bound to be problems.  I would
     say that the BJCP is a very good method of combating some of the
     problems.  If everyone who judged this event was a Recognized judge,
     then you'd know that they have at least written an exam and
     tried to identify a few beers.  This is better than what is
     available now where you have no idea what kind of experience the judges
     have.  If someone is a Certified judge then you at least know that
     they have judged before.  This says something.  It's a young program;
     let it work a bit before condemning it.
  4) Gallons.  Actually, I think the ounces are the same.  It's the pints that
     are different.  A pint is defined as an eighth of a gallon and half a
     quart.  An imperial (British) pint is 20 oz.  A US pint is 16 oz.
     (I think, but it could be 17 -- I always forget).  An imperial pound is
     the same as a US pound.  If something doesn't change soon I'll probably
     go crazy becuase half my books are british, the other half US, and my
     measuring devices are a random mixture of US, Imperial and metric.
     (That's Canada for you...)
  5) Chilliness.  One good thing about Winnipeg; in the winter, it can get
     to -40.  At least this is the same in degrees F and degrees C. :-)

                     Mike (there's too many Mike's here) Charlton



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Date:     Fri, 26 Oct 90 09:40 EST
>From: <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU> (Russ Gelinas)
Subject:  plastic bottles, faithful?, breath

W.Mayne suggested bottling in 2-liter plastic bottles. I like the sound of
this; I've had Watney's in 2-liter bottles and it was fine (and inexpensive,
when compared to the same amount in bottles. Just shows the expense of
packaging).  Has anyone else used plastic bottles?

Non-brew statment: I was at Old Faithful, and it wasn't. It was late 3 times
in a row (by up to 30 minutes). It indirectly caused me to lock my keys in
my car. Murphy rides again.

To the person with the baited-breath: Have a homebrew, your breath will be
much nicer *:-).

Russ (of NH)

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Date: Fri, 26 Oct 90 07:05:12 PDT
>From: foster at stanly.enet.dec.com
Subject: RE: Warming Winter Wort

Rather than insert a heater in the fermenter, you can get a heated wire that 
fits around a glass carbouy. I brought mine with me from the UK but I have seen 
recently that hardware stores are selling what looks like the same insulated 
heated wire to wrap around water pipes to prevent feezing. You buy this stuff by 
the yard. By changing the position of the heated-wire loop, you can manage the 
temp in the fermenter. The lower you place the heated loop, the higher the 
internal temp. I usually ferment in a cardboard box to exlude draughts and 
conserve heat.

                    ! !
                   /   \
                  !      !    <- carb.
                  !      !
                  !=======--------------=  120v AC.
                  !      !   ^
                   '-----'   +--- Heated wire looped around Carb.


It would have to be pretty cold (below 55) in the brewery before I would resort 
to heating though. I find an insulated fermenter works fine and doesnt run the 
risk of off flavours due to high fermentation temps.

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Date: 26 Oct 90 10:16:00 EDT
>From: "FEINSTEIN" <crf at pine.circa.ufl.edu>
Subject: Various, incl. request for help

Hi there!
 
 
I've been mostly out of commission the last 3-4 weeks due to illness, and as
a result want to offer "catch-up commentary" now.  Also, I need some input
and so will address my current problem as my last topic.
 
BEER HUNTER TAPES:  Mine finally arrived last week, taking about 2 weeks
longer than advertised.  The image and sound quality are excellent; better
than having recorded the original broadcasts, even at top speed.  In answer
to *everyone's* question:  no, there are no commercial breaks or even the
fade-outs for them; yes, there is some stuff that the commercials cut out,
but only a few seconds' worth.  The difference is genuinely insignificant in
my opinion.
 
What I find far more interesting, is that the program sequence is different
on the tapes.  And I suspect that the sequence on the tapes is the sequence
originally intended for broadcast, and that the Discovery Channel juggled the
programs.  I know for a certainty that Disc. Ch. has done so to other
programs in the past.
 
All in all, I'm satisfied with the product, and glad I spent the money.
 
HONEY MEASURES, AND PYMENT UPDATE:  For those who have been wanting to know,
one pound of honey measures 10.56 fluid ounces.
 
I let my pyment (described previously) ferment out completely.  This may have
been a mistake, in that I may end up with a somewhat drier product than
originally intended, but these things are *so* hard to call.  More important
is the overall result.  
 
First of all, much to my amazement (considering I boiled the grape juice),
the pyment clarified *completely*.  At bottling, it was (as my roommate
termed it) a truly gorgeous "apricot-gold" color.  The bouquet is as
marvelous as the color.  As far as taste goes, however, it's exceedingly
clear that this brew will require a minimum aging of one year.  And as I
already stated, it promises to be on the dry side-- but I don't think it will
be overly so.
 
NEW YEAST BRAND:  I recently got the catalog for Cottage Brewing Supply, in
Daytona Bch.  This is the supply store that Dr. Andrews recommended to me as
a source of adjunct bags.  In perusing the catalog, I came across listings
for Vierka wine yeast.  These are described as being German dry wine yeasts. 
As the list included both a mead yeast and several yeasts suitable for use in
making fruit wines, I'm curious about the stuff.  Does anyone know anything
about this particular brand of yeast?
 
DISTILLATION:  I'm a biologist, not a chemist, but I am given to understand
that if the distillation process isn't correctly handled (in terms of
temperature, etc.), one can end up with undesirable elements in one's end
product.  An example is benzenes.  What you're distilling, and what your
equipment is composed of, will affect the potential undesirable elements that
can be produced.  The main thing, though, is that it's on the dangerous side: 
the potential for poisoning oneself does exist.

AGING FRUIT BEERS:  When I made "Cherries in the Snow", and more recently
when I made a framboise, I found the minimum aging time to be 3-4 months.  I
think I aged the "CitS" 6 months before really consuming it in any quantity. 
Most of the recipes I've looked at where fruit is included have indicated a
3-4 month minimum aging, with 6-8 months not unusual.
 
The "Cherries," btw, really does get better, the longer it ages.  My last
bottles were 14 months old when consumed.
 
For those who care to know:  the framboise has come along quite nicely; I
can't wait to try it again when this batch is gone!
 
AHA JUDGING:  I am a relatively new member of the AHA, and have yet to
compete.  However, I was initially planning to enter the "Weiss is Nice"
competition when I discovered that membership in the local homebrewing club
was a prerequisite for competition.  This I resented.
 
Now, I think the first-round judging at the local level makes perfect sense. 
What I *don't* like is the dis-enfranchisement of independent brewers like
myself!  The way this competition was set up, you not only *had* to go
through a local group, you *had* to be a member.  Sorry, but I have neither
the time nor the inclination to join my local homebrewer's club.  I have
nothing against them; far from it!  It's just that I don't believe in joining
clubs to which I have no time to contribute.  Thus, to have competed in the
"Weiss is Nice" competition, I would have had to shell out $21.00 to join the
local club, after which I would have had to pay the fees to complete locally. 
And later, if my brew had done well locally, there might have been additional
costs.  Sorry, but that's just too damn much muss, fuss, and bother!
 
Surely, there can be a means by which those of us who are not "official club
types" can be allowed to compete!  I have no objection to an "entry fee" for
non-members, for example.  But surely, it shouldn't be necesssary to force
people into joining a club they don't want to join. 
 
EDME BASHING, AND MY OWN LITTLE PROBLEM:  I think I got some of the
contaminated EDME, and that it went into my most recent batch.  To explain: 
I decided to try to brew a pseudo-"Old Peculier".  I cooked up a medium-
bodied ale with both brown sugar and molasses added.  Before pitching the
yeast, I racked the wort off the trub.  This is the first time I had done
this.  I then pitched the EDME, which I had purchased before the warnings
about contamination, and which I was using for the first time.  I figured
there was no other way for me to find out if I had any of the bad stuff or
not, and besides which this brew wasn't going to be around long enough to
over-carbonate.  :-)
 
Nothing about the fermentation of this batch has been "normal".  The krausen
came and went in less than 18 hrs, instead of the usual 40-48.  Fermentation
in the next 36-48 hrs after that was so active, the fermenter was actively
*generating* heat!  (As in, it felt *perceptibly* warmer than room temp to
the touch).  Fermentation then slowed, and a lot of yeast settled out.  The
rate of fermentation since then has been around 4-6 bubbles per minute, and
the brew has remained cloudy and opaque-- with suspended yeast, I presume. 
At this writing, it's been 3 weeks, 5 days since I pitched the yeast.  *No
brew* I've ever made has taken longer than 2 weeks to ferment, including the
Imperial Stout I once made!
 
So now, I'm not at all sure what to think!  Did I pick up an infection when
racking off the trub?  Is it the EDME?  Should I pour this batch down the
drain? (ouch!)  See if it ever stops fermenting?
 
I would appreciate any and all advice!
 
Thanks in advance!

 
                         Yours in Carbonation,

                                      Cher 


"With one tuckus, you can't dance at two weddings." -- Yiddish proverb
=============================================================================
0	Cheryl Feinstein              INTERNET:  CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
	Univ. of Fla.                 BITNET:  CRF at UFPINE
	Gainesville, FL


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Date: 26 Oct 90 10:32:00 EDT
>From: "FEINSTEIN" <crf at pine.circa.ufl.edu>
Subject: Note of interest

Hi there!
 
The following appeared in the "Notes from All Over" section of the November
issue of _Readers' Digest_, and I thought some might find it interesting.
 
 
"After a long day of slaving over pottery kilns or digging tombs, ancient
Egyptians probably looked forward to knocking back a few jars of the local
beverage-- a beer brewed from Nile water, half-baked bread, wheat malt and
date juice.  Under the direction of Michael Hoffman ant the University
ofSouth Carolina's Earth Sciences and Resources Institute, archeologists
recently unearthed a four-vat operation that may be the oldest brewery in the
world.
 
Jeremy Geller, an archeologist at Washington University in St. Louis, is
excavating the brewery, in the ancient city of Hierakonpolis.  By examining
pottery shards and assessing a radiocarbon analysis of a black residue found
in the vats, Geller estimates that the brewery was active about 5400 years
ago, before the construction of the pyramids.  Solomon Katz, an
anthropologist at the University of Pennsylvania, believes that the process
of brewing beer helped prehistoric hunter-gatherers band together and learn
to develop agriculture and create civilizations."
 
                                 -- William Booth in Washington _Post_
 


                         Respectfully submitted,

                                      Cher 


"With one tuckus, you can't dance at two weddings." -- Yiddish proverb
=============================================================================

	Cheryl Feinstein              INTERNET:  CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
	Univ. of Fla.                 BITNET:  CRF at UFPINE
	Gainesville, FL


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Date: Fri, 26 Oct 90 10:23:36 -0500
>From: dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Danny-Boy)

In response to a query about gathering bottles suitable for a homebrewer,
William Mayne suggests collecting bottles from recyling bins.  How does one
be sure that these are returnables?  My assumption would be that the vast 
majority of the bottles sent to be recycled are of the non-returnable variety
and have those nasty twist-tops....not so hot for capping.  But then, Are
returnable bottles *really* necessary??  I have always worked under the 
assumption that the NR's aren't satisfactory for bottling homebrew...

About 2-liter pop bottles...maybe I'm a damned purist or maybe I'm closed minded
but the idea of storing my precious homebrew in one of those *plastic* bottles
brings me close to a shudder.  Question: is there a noticible effect on taste?
Even bigger question: how do you seal it tight enough to get carbonation?  Can
the original cap be screwed on that tight??

When I get the urge to find bottles, I'll probably take the liquor store route.
Or I'll drink a lot.  Hmmmmmmmm.   And then 16oz. returnable pop bottles
aren't all that bad.

Danny Breidenbach


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Date: Fri, 26 Oct 90 09:53:39 PDT
>From: falk at Eng.Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Subject: Re:  where to get bottles

If you happen to live in the San Francisco bay area, there's
a bar in San Mateo called the Prince of Wales, which throws
Grolsch bottles away by the case.  I found this out and immediately
told the owner to start saving them for me, I'd be back in a couple
weeks to pick them up.

Perhaps some other bay area brewers would like to get together
and take turns going over there for the empties?

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Date: Fri, 26 Oct 90 10:21:10 PDT
>From: Kevin Karplus <karplus at ararat.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #526 (October 26, 1990)

Someone suggested picking bottles out of recycling bins.  Be aware that this
activity is illegal in most places---it consitutes theft.  Many municipal
curbside recycling programs rely on the income from reselling the materials
they collect, and get understandably upset if people come around taking the
high resale value stuff (cans, bottles with redemption value, ...) and leaving
them to pick up the almost worthless stuff.

It is legal to ask people who have put stuff out for recycling if you can take
it for reuse instead.  Most people are glad to let you have it (reuse is more
ecologically sound than recycling), and they still own the stuff at that point,
so it is perfectly legal.

Champagne bottles are much better for brewers than the flimsy beer bottles now
used by commercial brewers.  If you can find "splits", they're ideal.  Try
University graduation ceremonies and caterers who do a lot of weddings.

Kevin Karplus

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Date: Fri, 26 Oct 90 10:35:03 PDT
>From: rmgold at Corp.Sun.COM (Rick Goldberg "Demo Engineer")
Subject: Bass approximate

<><>On another topic, I'd like to try approximating a Bass Ale. Does
<><>anyone have a good starting point for me, recipe-wise?

A good starting point for a Bass-like brew comes from
 
Home Brew Supply 
6781 Sueno Road
Isla Vista, (There's no place like I.V. ... There's no place like I.V. ...)
California 93117
(805) 968-7233
Ask for Rafael Maldonado, Jr. the owner and operator.
A real swell chap. 

In particular I used what he labels "British Amber Malt" although I've
seen seemingly identical malt labeled Australian. It comes in one of those
6lb. plastic jars. I also used what he claims is the same type of hops that
Sierra Nevada Ale uses, but in pellet form. Forget the actual proportion, 
since I *never* follow written recipes but it goes something like

6lbs BAMalt
5gals Hard Showerwater (Seriously)
1/2oz Hops
Some kind of yeast, I forgot which but it won't matter too much if you stick
to the basics.
Sugar to taste (or buzz)
Dont bother putting the hops in a hops bag, it adds to the "charm" of this
beer. (just kidding, I learn the hard way).

The result will impress even your mother.
 
My batch came out like a Bass with a very "rosey" aftertaste. The color was
a nice amber. That's when I came up with the idea of adding rose-hips to
the wort to boost the flower flavor, but have yet to experiment. I would
call it "Amberose" like the drink of the gods. I was surprised to read
in one of last weeks homebrews that this is not a unique idea (flowers in your
beer). I would like to see further discussion on the matter.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Yeast is proof that god exists.
L8er
Rick Goldberg TSE

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Date: Fri, 26 Oct 90 11:58:51 PDT
>From: jwhite at anovax.enet.dec.com
Subject: Bulk supplys



  A few HBD's back someone asked for a place to get bulk brewing supply's. If
you are on the eastern half of the U.S. then Alternative Beverage is a good
place to buy from. You can obtain 50 lbs of amber DME for $110.00 and get a
10% discount on a pound of hops. Good bunch of guys there. They will talk to
you about what you want to do and give you hints/help if you need it. Their
number is 1-800-365-BREW. They are located in GA I believe.



				Joe

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Date: Fri, 26 Oct 90 14:46 EDT
>From: durk at dialogic.com (Dave Durkin)
Subject: Warming Winter Wort


In digest #526 Andy McBrearty wrote:
>I just wanted to offer a (possibly simpler) solution:
>Rather than submerging the aquarium heater into the fermenting wort (and run
>a risk of contamination ;-), how about using the same carboy-in-a-water-bath
>setup that has been mentioned before in this Digest (summer topics).
>[rest deleted]

What a great idea.  I must admit that when I first did the heater trick I 
hadn't heard of or thought of the bath technique.  But it makes good sense
to try it since it would entirely eliminate the risk of infection.  I
don't need to worry about ambient room temperature at the moment but I will
certainly keep it in mind for the future.

- --Durk

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Date: Fri, 26 Oct 90 12:07:09 PDT
>From: hsfmsh.UUCP!suurb at cgl.ucsf.EDU (Dave Suurballe)
Subject: AHA Competition

It's nice to finally have a response from Chuck on this matter.

Chuck is very happy with the fact that there is at least one
experienced judge on each panel at the AHA national.  He sees
the glass as half-full, and I see it as half-empty.  Imagine
getting your scoresheets back and finding that one judge liked
your beer and four others didn't; they detected some flavor
that they didn't recognize and didn't like.  Trouble is, that
flavor is important in the style, but they don't know that.
The experienced one knows it and scores the beer highly.
Her score, however, is only one score, and cannot prevail
against the four uneducated scores, so you end up losing.
The beer that wins isn't the best one for that style, but
the one that appealed most to the uneducated palates of the
four novices, or the one that seemed most familiar to them.

I am complelled to make the following point again.  Chuck says
that "Certain judges were asked to judge categories they were
considered experts in...", and while this may be true, it implies
that there was some effort to place experienced judges on each
panel, and this is *not* true of the British Bitter panel in Oakland.
All of the judges on that panel just sat down there.  Nobody asked
them to, and nobody asked them (us) what our qualifications were.
The event is so poorly organized that they were grateful that there
were five people sitting there; it didn't matter who they were.

I wonder if any readers submitted a British Bitter to the competition.
It might be interesting to see the scoresheets.  Like I said in
my last posting on this subject, only two of the five judges had
ever tasted British Bitter, another judge was a BJCP Certified Judge,
and the other two were very novice, basically right off the street.

The reason I make such a big deal about the British Bitter panel is
because Chuck Cox writes glittering generalities about the National
Competition which don't apply to the British Bitter panel.  I saw how
disorganized the event was, so I believe that the glittering generalities
don't apply to other panels, too, and this leads me to believe
that the glittering generalities are just not true at all.

The first round of the AHA National competition is a joke, and so is the
second round.  The beers are not judged fairly because of the large number
of inexperienced judges, and the wrong beers are being judged, because of
the crap-shoot first round.

I'm really glad that there's at least one experienced judge on each panel
of the second round, but it bothers me a lot that there are so many
inexperienced judges on each panel.  Maybe if they can only find one
Kolsch judge, they should use only the one, and if they can find only
two Bitter judges, they should use only those two.  I don't think there
is *any* place in a *national* competition for *inexperienced* judges.

Suurballe

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Date: Fri, 26 Oct 90 13:57:21 PDT
>From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: The Nature of Dry Yeasts

In HOMEBREW Digest #526, Mike Schrempp observed:

> ... Miller said that some ale yeasts end up acting like bottom
> fermenters ("no yeast pancake on the top" or something like
> that) ...

I have an even less precise reference:  Leistad quoted someone
(don't remember who, and don't have the booklet handy) who
maintained that the available dried yeasts were NEITHER lager nor
ale, but were more closely related to bread-yeast strains.
Presumably, this is from the need to have a fairly large number of
the yeasties survive the rigors of the dried-yeast process.

Mike then asked:

> So, a question for the gusher people, did you rack off the trub and 
> have your fermentation stop? Also did you prime with corn sugar or wort?

Hard to say.  When I had my two "gusher batches", my process was to
leave the beer in the primary until I could no longer detect any
activity.  That doesn't mean there WASN'T any!  The microfauna &
microflora in the ferment could have slowly been munching away,
without betraying their existence.  The long ferments of Belgian
lambics, Michael Jackson tells us, are a succession of different
organisms gaining the "upper hand" in the (semi-)closed environment
of the fermentor.  The dramatic increases in carbonation that don't
appear for more than a month after bottling could very well be due
to a similar syndrome.  My point is that I suspect the Edme Gusher
Effect is more related to the nature of the colony pitched into
the wort, than to the technique involved in the subsequent process,
primarily because I changed the yeast and not the technique, and
had no more gushers.  I have always primed with corn sugar.

> Since I'll be bottling next week, I may try a couple of bottles 
> without any priming, and see what happens.

I'd love to hear the results.

= Martin A. Lodahl    Pac*Bell Minicomputer Operations Support Staff =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: 	Sat, 27 Oct 90 14:01:00 EDT
>From: #ROSS27 at ccm.UManitoba.CA
Subject: Subscribing to list

Sub homebrew Chris Ross


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Date: Sun, 28 Oct 90 12:24:29 EST
>From: gt4393c at prism.gatech.edu
Subject: Beer Evangelism ...

Hey There,

I know that this is a "worn-out" topic, but I have yet to see a homebrewer
who hates to give recipes, so ...

I am trying both to impress and to "convert" someone who is currently of the
"Old Style / Schaefer (however it's spelled)" persuasion.  I'm thus looking
for a good ale for "conversion purposes".   (Yeah, I realize that this is one
*heck* of a lower bound, but ...)  I'm hoping for an extract-based ale,
with hops and speciality grains as needed, that doesn't break the bank.

Considering the "lack of competition" per se, I may just go with a good kit.
Any suggestions?  (I do like to do my own "hopping" however ...)

Thanks,

 -Ivan     gt4393c at prism.gatech.edu

(P.S. : many thanks to Florian for sending me suggestions to my yeast query
from a couple of months back.   (This machine can't send to your side of the
net apparently.)  I made a batch of the "Spruce Ale" from TCJOHB, substituting
Cascade hops and Whitbread yeast, and using a spruce extract from a company
whose name escapes me.  The current bottles have aged for about 2 months,
and have been really great (except for being just a *tad* too perfume-y for
my tastes - did "create" a new homebrewer with them, though ... :-) )  From
what I've read and experienced, I'm pretty sure that the off-tastes in my
previous batch were caused by an EDME wild yeast infection.)

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Date: Mon, 29 Oct 90 11:14:06 -0500
>From: dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Danny-Boy)

I think I remember seeing someone tell of their adventure with some malt
extract that made a tea-like beer.  What was the name of this brand.
I think I remember it was Alexanders.

My fellow brew-meister and I made a pale ale using 4 lbs of Alexanders Pale
Malt Extract, 1.1 lbs Munton-Fison Amber Malt Exract, 1 lb corn sugar,etc.
Everything went really well up through bottling.  After two weeks in the
bottle, we opened one.  Absolutlely no carbonation and a very fruity taste and
aroma.  Three weeks later, we tried again.  This time, there was slight carbon-
ation -- no where near what one would like -- and the taste was still young.  
I've heard of homebrews being desctibed as cidery--but when I smelled a glass
of this, I thought my mom had given me a nice cold glass of apple juice!!
Maybe it's going to improve in another 3 weeks.....

Does anyone out there have any opinions on Alexanders??  Please respond--either
via e-mail or on the net--maybe a good bashing round is in order.  I sure
don't plan to buy it again.

Danny-Boy		(dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu)
 



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Date: Mon, 29 Oct 90 08:46:58 -0800
>From: krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Subject: yeast recycling

Well, I brewed last Saturday, and tried to recycle my yeast with the following 
method. While the batch was sitting in an ice bath cooling, I went down to the 
basement (aka Ken's World) and bottled a batch that had been in the secondary 
for about four weeks. I put the cooled wort from my new batch into the primary 
fermentor, dumped in the yeast slurry from the batch I'd just bottled (about 2 
1/2 cups worth), and added water to bring total volume up to about 5 gallons. 
The wort was well aerated in the process of topping it up.

The yeast used in the slurry was Wyeast European Ale. After 24 hours in the 
primary there was absolutely *NO* activity at all. The little gizmo inside the 
fermentation lock hadn't lifted a millimeter. So, I dumped in a packet of 
Whitbreads ale yeast. Fermentation began within four hours.

Anyone got any thoughts on why 2 1/2 cups of yeast slurry produced no activity 
at all? Should I have expected a long lag using this method? I figured 
fermentation would begin almost immediately with that large a volume of yeast.

Ken Weiss
krweiss at ucdavis.edu


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Date: Mon, 29 Oct 90 12:29:58 EST
>From: pkel at psych.purdue.edu (Paul L. Kelly)
Subject: Flowers in beer, big fermenter


Recently someone posted a question about using flowers in brewing.  As the 
poster noted, hops are indeed flowers, but the question remains as to what
other flowers are available/useful/safe/desireable for brewing.  I would be
greatly interested in this information if there is anyone out there who has
tried it.  Another thought that occurred to me was that one might use flowers
in beer for unique coloring, e.g. green beer for St. Paddy's Day, or some-
thing that I've always wanted to make, Romulan Ale (if this is a complete
mystery to you, see Star Trek II - The Wrath of Kahn).  Any ideas? (Please
don't say to use food coloring in my beer -- I'd consider that cheating!)

My next question regards brewing large batches.  I have discovered that it
is very disappointing to drink the last of a really good batch of brew, only
to find that the next batch is not even bottled, or worse yet, that I have
neglected to even start the next batch yet!  I believe that if I were to brew
say, 20 gallons at a time, that I'd be saving time as well as insuring that
the last drop of beer is further away than next weekend.  My question is this:
what's good to use for a big fermenter?  Are there food-grade buckets with
airtight lids that hold 20 gallons or so?  Would a stainless steel 15 gal keg
work okay for fermentation?  Do they even make stainless kegs anymore?

Enlighten me, oh great brewnet.

Paul   (pkel at brazil.purdue.edu)

Paul L. Kelly           | "Bones, you know this stuff is illegal!"
Dept. Psych. Sci.       |  "I only use it for medicinal purposes."
Purdue University       |  Disclaimer:  My cat agrees with everything I say,
W. Lafayette, IN  47907 |  but only if I'm saying it's dinnertime.  

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Date: Mon Oct 29 13:58:28 1990
>From: semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Warming Winter Wort

In HBD #524 Dave Durkin writes:

> For what it's worth ...
> The colder weather is coming on us and it got me to think....
>
> When I was living in England, I had a problem brewing in the winter.
> The houses there usually are not heated when no one is home.  And,
> as you can well imagine, this posed a problem with breeding ale
> yeasties.  But, I came upon an idea.  I bought a submersible
> aquariam heater (long, glass cylinder type going for around $20-$25 
> in any pet shop) and, after soaking it in sterilizer, placed it in 
> my primary fermenter.  


I used to have pet lizards.  They also needed to be kept from the
cold when the heat was turned off.  For terrariums they make
special heaters.  They lay flat underneath the terrarium and warm
it from the bottom.  They even come with little thermostats to
control the temperature.  Although I have never tried one on wort
this would seem like a fitting application. 

Also, old waterbed heaters are very similar.  They may event be
more robust since they're usually used for large amounts of water. 
They also have their own thermometers and are more sensitive. 
Quite often you can find old waterbeds at yard sales or in the
want-ads.  These tend to be larger than terrarium heaters and could
even be wrapped around a carboy rather than placed underneath. 

Of course, I would recommend testing one of these on a carboy full
of water before trying it on wort.

- -- Cheers,

- -- Robert A. Gorman (Bob)        bob at rsi.com           Watertown MA US --
- -- Relational Semantics, Inc.    uunet!semantic!bob    +1 617 926 0979 --


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Date: Mon, 29 Oct 90 13:13:02 PST
>From: Ken Buswell <kenb at hpsmeng1.rose.hp.com>
Subject: HB Digest
Full-Name: Ken Buswell

  Please sign me up.
  My address is:
  kenb at hpsmeng1.rose.hp.com

  Thanks Rob
  Ken Buswell SMO Roseville ,Calif 786-7076



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Date: Mon, 29 Oct 90 14:30:21 mst
>From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: How to obtain bottles???

Dan Needham writes:
>Be aware that some of the Spanish sparkling
>wines have a larger lip that does not take a standard crown cap.

I've read that American Champagne bottles fit crown caps and non-American
do not.

The place where I got my 12oz bottles was at a tavern that was attached to 
a liquor store.  At the bar they served beer in returnable long-necks
which are the best (in my opinion) bottles for bottling.  They are
made of very thick glass, fit crown caps perfectly, are dark brown
to prevent light damage, and come with wire frame reusable cardboard
cases.  In the back of the liquor store, they had about 50 cases of empties
from the tavern.  I think I gave them $1.20 per case and they gave me the wire
frame cardboard cases free.

Al.


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #527, 10/30/90
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