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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  RE: Slow Digest and Transition ("Mike Sharp")
  HIgh Quality of the Homebrew Digest (Fred L Johnson)
  Re: alternate hops (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Scorched beer (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Slow Digest and Transition (Jeff Renner)
  Alternate Hops (Scott Birdwell)
  Samichlaus ("Niebergall, Paul")
  Cluster Vs Northern Brewer Hops... ("Doug Lasanen")
  re: lagering in bottle ("Chad Stevens")


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
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Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:35:55 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Slow Digest and Transition

Alexandre Enkerli laments the Slow Digest and Transition

"I was told by an HBD subscriber and fellow Austinite that the
digest gets a few messages a month. Nothing like the 20 messages a day
of the old days, but still active."

Well, it's more like a few messages a day...but definitely lighter traffic
than in the past.  Perhaps it's time to revive the discussion of counterflow
wort chillers versus immersion chillers?  Or the virtues of Clinitest
tablets? ;^)


Regards,
Mike Sharp

Kent, WA
[1891.3, 294deg] AR



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Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:32:48 -0500
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com>
Subject: HIgh Quality of the Homebrew Digest

I have found the Homebrew Digest to be the best source of high  
quality information around the homebrew world. Other forums (and  
podcasts) are flooded with a lot more misinformation which does  
everyone a disservice to the hobby. I attribute the high quality of  
the information in the HBD to the experience and knowledge of those  
who post to this digest. Most who post here seem to know that they  
had better have a sound reason or direct experience that is  
repeatable before they post their opinions. The tone of the digest  
has generally been conducive to education rather than a battlefield  
or a high school boys locker room, unlike other places I've poked  
around.

I seriously miss the knowledgable exchange of information that I've  
enjoyed for years on the HBD, and I am dismayed that the traffic has  
dropped off the last couple of years. I suppose the most helpful  
posters to the HBD have found that posting here is no longer worth  
their time and energy. I can certainly understand how the most  
knowlegeable contributors could drift away if they aren't getting  
what they need.

Thanks to all of you who have stuck with the digest and continue to  
respond to thoughtful questions. I owe you all a lot.

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:50:22 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: alternate hops

"Ian Watson" <hophead at sympatico.ca> wrote from St. Catharines,  
Ontario:

>  If I account for the difference in alpha acids, should there be
> any difference in the beer if I use Cluster for bittering instead of
> Northern Brewer, all other things being equal?


I use, and like, Cluster in Classic American Pilsner.  Even after a  
full boil, it gives a kind of traditional flavor to this style, a  
flavor that I remember from old North American beers.  It is  
distinctive, with a kind of berry-like fruitiness, and a rustic  
flavor.  It is fairly neutral beyond that, especially in full  
flavored beer, but certainly not the same as NB.

It really depends on the style.

Galena, Magnum, Horizon are fairly neutral bittering hops that might  
work, but they will be different from NB.

Hopunion has a downloadable list of hops with their attributes and  
substitutes at http://www.hopunion.com/hopunion-variety-databook.pdf.

It's going to be a tough couple of years.

Jeff
- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943





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Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:55:17 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Scorched beer

Stencil is Dejected in the Berkshire - he scorched his wort, and asks:

> Will fermentation somehow magically reduce this burnt
> flavor?

Not in my experience.  When I first started brewing, now nearly 35  
(!) years ago, there was very little good info.  I scorched several  
worts in extract brews by bringing the water to a boil and then  
pouring liquid extract into the boiling pot.  It sank down to the  
bottom of the pot, and, with the stove still on high, the wort  
scorched before I could start stirring.  I think I only did this  
twice before figuring out what happened.

The flavor never did go away.

Sorry.

Jeff

- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943




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Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:28:25 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Slow Digest and Transition

Peripatetic Alexandre Enkerli, who has been, that I know of, in  
Montreal (when he first joined HBD), then Indiana, back to Montreal,  
then Boston or maybe elsewhere in Massachusetts, now seems to be in  
Austin.  He brings up a subject that has been in the back of my mind  
for some time, and evidently in the fore of Pat Babcock's mind.  HBD  
seems to be dying on the vine, for a variety of possible reasons.

One the the sad aspects of becoming older is that we tend to resist  
change, at least when things are going well.  I love the HBD,  
although I have become less active lately as other things, especially  
Internet things, vie for my time.  I would hate to lose it.  I want  
it to stay just the way it was.

HBD has been very good to me since I first began to participate  
around 15 years ago (as soon as I had internet access).  I learned an  
awful lot about brewing that I could never have learned anywhere  
else.  I I like to think I've passed a lot of it along.

For a long time, HBD was THE central clearing house for the  
homebrewing community around the world to exchange information.  And  
it has been a community.  I've made friends around the world - in, a  
quick count, more than a dozen countries on five continents.  It's  
taken me as a guest to three or four conferences in the US and  
Canada, and even all the way to South Africa!  I've had as house  
guests Alex, Steve Alexander, and others, and met too many brewers to  
count for a beer or a meal at our local brewpub when they were  
passing through Ann Arbor.  I met them all thru HBD.

It is because of HBD that I have had the privilege of serving two  
terms (and am running for a third) on the Governing Committee  
(formerly Board of Advisors) of the American Homebrewers Association,  
which has been a very rewarding experience, and which lead to many  
more friendships.

I am afraid that I don't have any wisdom to offer except to say that  
I will try to be more active here in hopes that we can continue.  I  
don't think there is another central source like it.  The AHA  
TechTalk, which is very active, is limited to AHA members.  The  
various brewing forums I know of require you to actively log on.   
There is the active UK Homebrew list, which is similar, and which I  
participate in.  But the Oz Craftbrewing list (actually for  
homebrewers, not pros), is moribund.  More so than HBD.

If HBD has come to the end of its run, well, at least it's been a  
good one.  But I hope it isn't the end.

Guess it's time for me to send another few bucks to the server fund,  
too.

And thanks to Pat especially, and the others who work so hard.

Feeling rather cheerless at the moment,

Jeff
- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943





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Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:02:59 -0600
From: Scott Birdwell <defalcos at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Alternate Hops

Ian Watson said:
"I asked the membership during the slow Christmas holiday about using  
Cluster
hops instead of Northern Brewer, but there was no response, evidently
because of the busy-ness of the season.  So now that we are back to
work/school/etc, I thought I'd re-post it.  I am out of Northern  
Brewer hops
and the recipe I want to use specifically calls for it.  I do however  
have
Cluster.  I think I know the answer, but I want to confirm it so my  
question
is this:  If I account for the difference in alpha acids, should  
there be
any difference in the beer if I use Cluster for bittering instead of
Northern Brewer, all other things being equal?"

Given the current grave circumstances regarding hops, I would say  
make the substitution.  You have hops and that puts you in a better  
position than a lot of people.  The alpha acid levels are close,  
too.  Frankly, the expression "the recipe calls specifically for XYZ  
hops," is going to go the way of the dinosaur in the near future.   
This will soon be replaced by "What do you have that's reasonably  
close in flavor to XYZ hops."  It's not pleasant, but it is the  
reality.  I spend a good percentage of my work day scrounging hops  
for my shop here in Houston.  I'm having some limited success, but  
selection is going to be severely limited and prices outrageous.   
Still, I guess it's better than no hops which is what some shops are  
dealing with now.  Yikes!

Good Luck,
Scott Birdwell
DeFalco's Home Wine & Beer Supplies
Houston TX


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Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:09:51 -0600
From: "Niebergall, Paul" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com>
Subject: Samichlaus 

Has anyone heard a rumor that Samichlaus is being brewed again.
Supposedly it is the first bottling since 1986.  Anybody else her about
this? 


Paul Niebergall



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Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:21:19 -0500
From: "Doug Lasanen" <Dlasanen at fuse.net>
Subject: Cluster Vs Northern Brewer Hops...

Ian Watsson asks about substituting Cluster Hops for Northern Brewer 
Hops......

Ian:
According to my handy dandy hop book from "Hop Union", "Northern Brewer" is 
listed as a possible substitute for "Cluster."......"Galena" is also listed. 
Today, with the hop situation as it is, I feel like you will be fine making 
the substitution.  I, for one, substitute all the time, based on what is in 
the freezer on brew day.......As long as you substitute with hops that have 
similar characteristics, and make adjustments for Alpha Acid differences.

Brew on!
Cheers!

Doug Lasanen
Bloatarian Brewing League
CIncinnati, Ohio

PS.......Don't forget the Nationals in June '08! 




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Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:08:58 -0800
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
Subject: re: lagering in bottle

>Is there a difference between; bottling and conditioning for >2 weeks, and 
>then lagering for 30 days OR lagering for 30 >days, and then bottling and 
>conditioning?

I've done both.  Even split batch: bottle some after primary, bottle some 
after secondary, bottle the rest after lager.  No appreciable difference in 
the final product in your glass.

The only major difference might be a little more yeast at the bottom of the 
beers bottled straight from primary and a little faster carbonation.

Long story short, I now bottle all lagers straight from a thorough primary, 
let them prime, then extended lager.  Particulate settles as a function of 
particulate size, weight, density of the liquid (which is a function of 
temperature) and DEPTH of the liquid.  It takes much less time for a 12oz 
bottle to settle out than a corney keg.  I'm satisfied with the results.

Good luck,

Chad Stevens
QUAFF
San Diego

P.S. quaff.org will go live with registration for America's Finest City 
homebrew competition within the next week or so.  Please check the website 
and enter.  Thanks! 



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