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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Jeff Renner's Pretzel Recipe ("Aaron Hermes")
  Filtering instead of Vorlaufing? ("Aaron Hermes")
  Taj Mahal Clone? ("Michael P. Thompson")
  home brewing and selling on the side ("Alex Rigoni")
  Re: home brewing and selling on the side ("Pat Babcock")
  The cost of brewing ("Jerry \"Beaver\" Pelt")
  Lead in Carboys (Calvin Perilloux)
  re: Cloning Saison Dupont ("Chad Stevens")
  Counterflow Chiller and Summer (Mike Kilian)
  English brewer seeks help with US beer list at GBBF (Steve)
  Hops Crisis (Allen Senear)


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
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Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:49:47 -0400
From: "Aaron Hermes" <aaron.hermes at gmail.com>
Subject: Jeff Renner's Pretzel Recipe

I haven't seen anything from Jeff Renner here in a long time, but I'm
hoping that maybe some other people on the list have made his pretzel
recipe.  I've made it 3 or 4 times in the past month, and the results
have been fairly satisfactory (according to my tasting panel, they've
been very good), but I'm not getting the kind of skin that I want on
the pretzels.  The taste (that pretzelly "twang") is definitely there,
but there's not enough "bite" to to the pretzel's texture.  I added a
step to his recipe, letting the shaped pretzels rest uncovered in the
fridge for 20-30 minutes, which did result in a better skin, but still
not thick enough for my taste.  I also doubled the concentration of
the lye dip, to 6 oz in 1 gallon of water (the volume measurement he
gave in the recipe was only about 3 oz with my lye crystals).  I did
notice that the skin was not as smooth or tight as I would have hoped,
but that's because I'm picturing something more along the lines of a
"Super Pretzel" or something like that, which is probably an
inappropriate comparison...

Does anyone have any insight on getting a thicker/tougher skin on the
pretzels?  Do I need a longer rest in the fridge?  Do I need to
increase the concentration of the lye dip?


aaron


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Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:56:24 -0400
From: "Aaron Hermes" <aaron.hermes at gmail.com>
Subject: Filtering instead of Vorlaufing?

In the Altbier Classic Styles Series book, Dornbusch states that most
German breweries centrifuge or filter the wort after lautering, rather
than vorlaufing as most homebrewers do.  I don't have the means to
centrifuge wort at this point, but I'm wondering if anyone here has
ever opted for filtering their wort through an inline filtration
system of some sort.  What size filter would be appropriate?  It seems
there would be disadvantages to filtering the wort through too fine a
filter at that point, but I'm really just guessing there.  I'm more
upset at learning that vorlaufing isn't part of the typical process
these days...  It seems like I've been misled!


aaron


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Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:50:15 -0600
From: "Michael P. Thompson" <thompson at ecentral.com>
Subject: Taj Mahal Clone?

I have a homebrewer friend who is just starting to brew for an Indian  
restaurant. They want him to approximate Taj Mahal, which is imported  
from India. Anybody have a clone recipe? Also, any suggestions for  
beers that go with Indian food, especially those from India or Nepal,  
would be appreciated.


- -- 
Doras Cuil Travel--Your one-stop travel source
Do you like to travel? How about wholesale, AND tax-deductible? Ask  
me how.
http://www.dorascuil.com





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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:49:25 -0500
From: "Alex Rigoni" <alex.rigoni at gmail.com>
Subject: home brewing and selling on the side

Hey all,

Just looking for some feedback.  Eventually, I want to open a type of
brewpub of microbrewery.  In the mean time, I want to start it as a
part time business.  I would like to brew in my garage or basement and
sell beer locally or off a website.  This would allow me time to gage
the business economics (feasibility) and give me time to practice,
formulate recipes, etc.).  Does anyone have any tips or a website they
can refer?  Looking for tips on operations, taxes, shipping, book
keeping, etc.  Any help is appreciated.  Cheers.

Thanks,

Alex


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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:03:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: home brewing and selling on the side

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager....

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:49:25 -0500, "Alex Rigoni" <alex.rigoni at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Just looking for some feedback.  Eventually, I want to open a type of
> brewpub of microbrewery.  In the mean time, I want to start it as a
> part time business.  I would like to brew in my garage or basement and
> sell beer locally or off a website.  This would allow me time to gage
> the business economics (feasibility) and give me time to practice,
> formulate recipes, etc.).  Does anyone have any tips or a website they
> can refer?  Looking for tips on operations, taxes, shipping, book
> keeping, etc.  Any help is appreciated.  Cheers.

The key missing element from your request above would be information on
licensing requirements. It is likely that the cost and difficulty of
licensing such a venture would kill the desire to try it as a part-time,
toe-in-the-water venture pretty quickly.

You will need federal and state licensing for production, packaging, and
sale. You will need local licensing to operate - and you'll likely not get
this for a residential location. Even at that, you will need to have
federal review of any labelling, local board of health oversight; since
you'll be dealing with boiling liquids and heavy lifting: there's the
spectre of local OSHA oversight as well... Ah! The bureaucracy engine must
be fueled, and fueled heavily!

I'm sure there'll be more precise information and advice forthcoming from
those in our ranks who are currently opening or operating brew pubs and/or
microbreweries, but the only operation I am personally aware of that
started on a similar scale had to buy/lease a building to do it in.

And that's my knee-jerk $0.02 opinion from a quick read of your post while
doing my moderation gig :o)

- -- 
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan
Chief of HBD Janitorial Services
http://hbd.org
pbabcock at hbd.org




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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:31:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jerry \"Beaver\" Pelt" <beaverplt at yahoo.com>
Subject: The cost of brewing

Hi all.

I'm surprised that this subject has gotten so much play.
After all, who would be subscribed to this digest except
those who enjoy the hobby to one degree or other. Does anyone
who brews actually do it to save money? I personally do it because
I love great (ok sometimes only good, well alright, I've
had to dump a couple batches) homebrews. If it weren't
beer, I'd just spend whatever I spend on something else I love.

Jerry "Beaver" Pelt



      


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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:52:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lead in Carboys

Amos writes, regarding lead: 

> How much do we spend on sanitizers and water treatments 
> just to make sure there is no possibility of a contamination? 
> Should we not do the same for rather dangerous chemical 
> contaminants in our equipment.

You can't draw a parallel conclusion that we should do the same.
Trace amounts of metals, unlike trace amounts of bacteria, 
do not reproduce and overwhelm the final product.  And so far,
without test data, we are riding on speculation here.

The lead testing with a soak in white vinegar seems overdone
if it's straight vinegar.  It seems a better test would be 
to have a solution with pH of about 4.5 or so, the pH of beer 
(or 3 if you prefer lambics?) and then check that for lead 
after some weeks in a carboy.

You might have to send such a sample off for analysis, 
since the ppm/ppb in solution might be quite low.  Then
compare that to an analysis of your drinking/brewing water 
to see what increase (hopefully small or none) you might
be getting.

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA



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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 09:08:06 -0700
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
Subject: re: Cloning Saison Dupont

>Question - How do I clone the yeast? I understand it's yeast + some brett, 
>is it sufficient to use two tablespoons of table sugar and refill the 
>bottle with water?

That's roughly how I did it.  I just added some wort and presto!  Great 
yeast.  I gave what I grew to Lisa White, she and Neva did their lab thing, 
and the result is now White Labs Saison II.  What I grew out was a straight 
fermentation strain, no brett, but this stuff ferments darn near anything 
down to 1.004 FG and the flavor is about as close as you could ask for to 
the original.  To the best of my knowledge (from playing with the beer and 
its yeast for years), they aren't using brett, but I could certainly be 
wrong.

Good luck!

Chad Stevens
QUAFF
San Diego 



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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:16:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Kilian <mikekilian1947 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Counterflow Chiller and Summer

I keep thinking that there should be a way to improve my 
chiller's efficiency during the summer.  Here in the 
St Louis MO area, water gets quite warm, by comparison to 
our winter temps.  I can get my wort down to 77 degrees 
or so during the summer but that not where I want to be.
I would not expect to get it chilled down to lager 
pitching temp, but I really prefer to get my ale to 68
or a few degrees less.  I tried a 3/4 inch 5 foot coil 
in a bucket of ice to chill the incoming water but it 
was of marginal help.  Somehow, I'd expect that I should
pre-chill the input water with a larger bucket or cooler 
with ice and something more like a coil or chill plate 
from a jockey box.  Any ideas are appreciated.

Mike


      


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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:22:44 +0100
From: Steve <duderooner at ntlworld.com>
Subject: English brewer seeks help with US beer list at GBBF

Hi

Next week is the Great British Beer Festival in London.  I intend to 
arrive with a plan of action. Over the last few years I have followed 
this digest, bought books on American brewing and downloaded US 
homebrewers podcasts to listen to as I deliver my beer.  Alas, I have to 
admit the exposure of my palate to beer from the States has been limited 
to some bottled imports and the odd gift brought back by friends. My 
capacity for sampling will be limited and I am hoping that you good folk 
will be able to give me some advice as to which beers you would advise a 
friend to try.  To save clogging up this forum I have the link to Bieres 
Sans Frontieres, which is the bar serving US beers at the GBBF 
2008. The US beer list is under the USA and World Bar, 2008.

http://www.b-s-f.org.uk/

Thanks for your help,
Steve
(No such thing as a bad beer, just some are better than others!)



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Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:28:17 -0700
From: Allen Senear <senear at seanet.com>
Subject: Hops Crisis

This past weekend, on my annual end of July trek through the Yakima  
valley (go Oh Boy! Oberto) I saw evidence of real hope for relief  
from world-wide hops shortage.  After having sensed a slow erosion in  
the numbers of hops fields visible from I-82 over the last few years,  
this year there were several new fields along the road (including one  
just south of Union Gap - I've never seen any that far north before).  
The lumber and support wires still had that shiny straight from Home  
Depot look.  The vines only extended perhaps 4 or 5 feet up the guide  
wires , and were not very full, nothing like the vines in the  
established fields, densely rising to 18-20 feet;  they won't produce  
many hops this year, but by next year they should be going gangbusters.

Allen Senear
Big Water Brewing
Seattle


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