---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Chimay yeast (Spencer W. Thomas)
  red ale or ESB recipes? (Jon Rodin)
  Continental Pilsner by DAVID Miller (flowers)
  Kegging (Jay Hersh)
  English beverages (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  English berverages and keg sanitation (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Re: lagering outside (mike schrempp) (Jeffrey R Blackman)
  Its dead jim? (Bill Crick)
  chimay (BAUGHMANKR)
  thanks & addresses (Joe Uknalis)
  Re: Pasteurized extract (Marc Rouleau)
  Foxx Beverage ("John Cotterill")
  SN yeast changes type... (Todd Enders - WD0BCI )
  Through-the-door faucets (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #551 (December 06, 1990) (Bob Clark - Sun Engineering)
  Re: Oh God, not Al vs. Stainless again!!! (Marc Rouleau)
  Reinheitsgebot (Oran Carmona)
  Reconditioned Kegs (Duane Smith)
  Re: WYeast American Ale Yeast (Ken Giles)
  Why so few alcoholic beverages? (Marc Rouleau)
  growing hops (wicinski)
  Beer body (mcnally)
  Patriotic Duty... (indi)
  Radler (Norm Hardy)


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Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  Thu, 6 Dec 90 03:27:50 EST
From: Spencer W. Thomas <spencer at crim.eecs.umich.edu>
Subject: Chimay yeast


Those of us who saw the "Beerhunter" episode on Chimay know that it is brewed
with a very pure (monoclonal, if you want to get technical) yeast that was
isolated (if my memory is correct) in the early 1950's by the current
brewmaster.

=Spencer W. Thomas 		EECS Dept, U of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
spencer at eecs.umich.edu		313-936-2616 (8-6 E[SD]T M-F)


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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 8:05:00 MST
From: Jon Rodin <jar at hpcndpc.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: red ale or ESB recipes?

Anyone have any good red ale or ESB recipes to share?  Extract recipes
prefered.  Thanks.

Jon Rodin
j_rodin at cnd.hp.com
(303) 229 2474

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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 09:56:51 CST
From: flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu
Subject: Continental Pilsner by DAVID Miller

I think Norm Hardy's 'review' of Continental Pilsner was a bit harsh.  It
has driven me to offer my opinions.

First of all, the author is David Miller not Larry.  

Second, I too am a fan of lagers and read Miller's The Complete Handbook of
Homebrewing yet I found Continental Pilsner refreshing, well written and
informative.  Personally, I liked it better than the first book in the
series:  Pale Ale.

Third, I also purchased the book early but my pre-publication price was no
worse than AHA members' price (of course, I'm an AHA member so MAYBE I
received a different blurb from the AHA).

Lastly, I hate to say it Norm, but I'd prefer you give opinions and not
recommendations, unless of course they be solicited.  If you did not like
it, fine, but I don't think it is very fair for you to reccommend others
not buy it just because YOU knew all the information already.  I don't know
of any information in the book that was incorrect nor can I find any major
flaws in its style.  It is not meant to be the diffinitive source on
brewing lagers or pilsners as far as I can tell (Greg Noonan has a well
respected book in that category called Brewing Lager Beer).  I find it a
fine addition to the Classic Beer Style Series; easy to read (not overy
technical that a non-brewer couldn't understand it), good history,
descriptive and well referenced.  I will let the book stand on its own
merits and I'm sorry there was nothing new it for you Norm.

I'm glad I have the Pale Ale book too, even though I didn't like it as
much.  I certainly can't recommend someone NOT buy it.

 -Craig Flowers  (flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu)

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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 10:51:10 EST
From: hersh at coco.ctc.tasc.com (Jay Hersh)
Subject: Kegging

Cleaning Cornelius Kegs:
 Here's how I do it. I use a B-Brite solution (any other sterilant will
 work well too). I fill the keg half way, tip it over and use a dart
 tip (or similar point implement) to push in the opening of the valves
 and then let the sterilant pour through. Make sure you do this for a'
 minute or two. I swish the sterilant around in the keg, and also immerse
 the whole top in sterilant, making sure to lift up the o-ring so that
 it gets sterilized too.

 Now pour the sterilant out. With the keg upright once again open the valves
 this allows any sterilant to flow back down the out tube and out of the 
 valves. I rinse thoroughly with tap water, following the above procedure
 with tap water to rinse away all the sterilant. DO this a few times, and
 make sure at the end to put the keg upright and open the valves to let
 any residual water flow out of them. I then dry the keg upside down for a 
 few minutes to let any excess tap water run off.

 When kegging I fill the keg within 1-2 inches of the top then put the cover
 on, latch it down, put the keg under ~10lbs CO2 pressure and lift the
 pressure release valve. CO2 being heavier than air will settle to the bottom
 and force the air out, leaving CO2 over the beer. I bulk prime and let the
 beer condition right in the keg, and transfer to the fridge (be sure its
 above 32F you wouldn't want to freeze your keg 8-)!!).

Reconditioning Kegs:
 The figures I quoted were based on prices at my local homebrew shop.
 Seems buying direct from Foxx is substantially cheaper, think I should
 call them for a catalog.
 - Jay H

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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 09:24:18 mst
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: English beverages

All this talk of Lager 'n' Lime and Shandy has reminded me
of a drink I had in England back in '79.  It was a half pint
of beer in a pint glass and an inverted bottle of (hard) apple
cider in the glass.  I don't know if this was just something
restricted to the Twickenham area or ispopular throughout England.
The drink begins about 50% of each and slowly increases in cider
and alcohol level (the cider was nearly 10% alcohol if I recall
correctly) as you keep topping-off the glass with the cider that
did not initially fit.  It was delishious and potent!  After
three of those I couldn't even find the coin slot on the 
Bump 'n' Nudge machine ;^).


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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 09:24:34 mst
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: English berverages and keg sanitation

Oops.  I forgot to ask my question.  What were those beer/cider
drinks called?  Snakebite comes to mind, but I'm probably wrong.

Keg sanitation:
I clean and sanitize immediately after I've completed emptying
a keg.  I leave the valves on, pour a gallon of hot water + a
couple of tablespoons of bleach into the keg, seal and slosh
the liquid around for a few minutes.  Then, I dispense the bleach
solution just like it was beer.  I repeat two or three times with
hot water and then finally pour the last ounce or two of water
out the top (I've cut an inch off my pickup tube so I leave the
trub behind).  Two points of caution: 1) don't leave the bleach
solution in too long -- bleach reacts with stainless steel and
2) this has worked for me on kegs that I drink within 2 months
- -- if you plan to lager in the keg, you may need more intense
sanitation.

Al.


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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 8:24:00 PST
From: Jeffrey R Blackman <blackman at hpihouz.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Re: lagering outside (mike schrempp)
Full-Name: Jeffrey R Blackman

Mike writes:
> 
> In another light, it's starting to get very chilly outside. I'm thinking of
> trying a lagered beer. What is the common wisdom on leaving a carboy of beer
> out in the backyard (covered to keep the light out, of course)? Will the
> local critters leave it alone?
> 
> Mike Schrempp

The only critters that have bothered any brew I've set out has been the 
Oct. 17 Bay area earthquake.  I had two five gallon batches of a tasty 
blackberry stout fermenting away out back.  They were placed about three 
feet off the ground (up on a table) and covered with a thick blanket.  Both
carboys plummeted to the ground (landing on the concrete patio) but 
miraculously only one of the two carboys shattered; the other one was intact.
It turned out to be one very tasty brew!

One disadvantage I can see is the temperature fluctuations that can occur
in this climate.  It is hard to dictate what Mother Nature is gonna do with 
the weather.  It may drop to mid 40's at night and then jump up to the mid
70's during the day.  Depending on the insulation you have around the carboy
(both that of the glass and the covering) you might be able to dismiss any
temperature variations.

Go for it!  I haven't had a batch turn out bad that sat outside at this time 
of year.

 -Jeff

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Date: 6 Dec 90 16:25:18 GMT
From: bnrgate!bnr-rsc!crick at uunet.UU.NET (Bill Crick)
Subject: Its dead jim?

In regard to my question on liquid yeast, Roger Locniskan supplied the
following info: (Its nice to see a controlled experiment rather than 
opinion/myth!)


Saw your posting in the Digest #550 and thought I'd respond directly.
I too pre-start most of my yeasts whether they be dry or liquid.  My
process is a bit different.  The biggest difference is that rather than
using cane sugar I use 2 tablespoons of dry malt as the food.  

I sterilize a longneck bottle, stopper and fermentation lock.  Boil
6-8oz. of water with 2 tablespoons of dry malt and 1.5 teaspoons of
yeast nutrient.  Chill to room tempurature in an ice bath (so it cools
quickly) add starter and yeast to sterile bottle install the lock.  And
every 12 hours or so swirl the contents of the bottle to help build
colonies.

So far this process has not failed me.  I have heard of other people having
similar problems to yours when they used cane sugar, so I did a little
experiment.  I made up some petri dishes half with cane sugar/agar medium
and the other half with malt/agar medium.  I inoculated one of each type
of dish with one yeast strain and did this with a number of yeasts.  To my
suprise the dishes that I used cane sugar in had 0 (Zero) growth where
the malt dishes showed active growth.  This said to me that there was
somethiong wrong with cane sugar.  When I did a little more research I
discovered that cane sugar lacks the enzymes that brewing yeast needs to have
to grow properly.  You can add sugar to a brew because there is the malt
present (with all of its enzymes) to support the activity.

Hope this helps.  If you have any questions please feel free to write.
Roger Locniskar
A Fellow Digest Reader


Thanks Roger!

My mother used to mix beer, and ginger ale to make a shandy?
She also said thet in England they would use a "real Ginger Beer"
instead of Ginger Ale?

Bill Crick Brewius, Ergo Sum

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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 11:40 EST
From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
Subject: chimay

Maybe I can clarify a few points in the discussion lately concerning 
Chimay.  I lived in Belgium for a year some ten years ago. (Eat yer 
hearts out! :-)  Two years ago on a return trip to see my buddies over 
there, I had the good fortune to be taken on a personal tour of the 
Chimay brewery at Scourmont (near France, by the way) by the 
brewmaster himself, Pere Theodore.  Undoubtedly, the highlight of my 
brewing life!  I'm relying on memory for the following details.  
Plus bear in my mind that the tour and conversation were both in French 
and while my French is pretty good, still, a lot gets by me.  I do 
have it all on tape and I need desperately to get it out and go 
through it again.

Pere Theodore learned how to brew from  Jean de Clerk (who is buried 
at the abbey).  de Clerk taught him how to make the process they were 
using at the Abbey more "scientifique".  Chimay was apparently brewed 
rather haphazardly prior to Pere Theodore taking over the helm.  He is 
the man responsible for the Chimay that we know and love today.  He 
cultured the yeast himself.  And I think he said that there are at 
least two strains of yeast involved.  When they drain a fermenter, 
they keep the yeast deposit in the tank and run a fresh batch wort 
right in on top of it.  I'm not sure how many times they do this 
before pitching with a fresh strain.

Ready for a surprise?  On the floor in the brewhouse were several cans 
of American Cluster hop extract that they use for boiling hops!!  I can't say 
whether they use hop extract exclusively or in conjunction with other 
hops but that's what was on the floor.  I asked Pere Theodore about 
this and he said that extract gave him more control over bitterness 
from one batch to the next.

I'm fuzzy on whether they filter or not.  I don't think they do.  But 
if they don't, then I don't understand why they add extra yeast at 
bottling time.  I'll have to check my notes on that one.

Pere Theodore was a most gracious host.  He invited me into his 
office.  Asked me if I would like a beer. "Certainement!"  He proceed 
to one wall of his office and opened it!!!  Must have been a hundred 
bottles or so of all the Chimay beers in there!  A white, a blue, and a red 
Chimay later and we were in a pretty good mood.  In fact, he was late
for prayer that afternoon, something he is rarely late for, as I was 
told later.

I'll close these anecdotes with a joke the public relations man told 
me.  (You can bet it didn't come from Pere Theodore!!)

"She may or she may not but with Chimay, she may"

Cheers,

Kinney Baughman


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Date:         Thu, 06 Dec 90 08:02:48 EST
From: Joe Uknalis <UKNALIS at VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      thanks & addresses


Many thanks for all the responses to my start up kegging cost question.
I'll have to keep a keen eye out at garage sales!

Two suppliers who have been mentioned a bit are Foxx and Williams,
can anyone post their addresses?

thanks

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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 1990 12:40:20 EST
From: Marc Rouleau <mer6g at virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: Pasteurized extract

Ok, I now understand why we might like to use the enzymes that
are supposedly in the supposedly unpasteurized "commercial" grade
malt extract sold by The Homebrewer's Store (1-800-TAP-BREW).

On Dec  5, 11:44am, Donald P Perley wrote:
> Why keep them, you say?  So you can make partial mashes, with mostly
> extract, but some wheat or rice, etc. added.  Even malted wheat is 
> kind of low in enzymes, so the DMS lets you mash it easier, without
> the "hassles of scale" that a full mash entails.

There's one thing I forgot to tell you all about our conversation.
He said that his extract would make "smoother-tasting" beer, and
his claim wasn't in the context of partial mashing.  This is hogwash,
right?

>                                                   At least some
> of the extract companies boil the extract under a partial vacuum to
> keep the temperature down.

He just said that his extract was "unpasteurized" and not that it
was made in a special way.  Is "commercial" grade extract really any
different from the stuff we usually buy in cans?  Do the brewpubs and
microbreweries that use extract really get fundamentally better stuff?

    -- Marc Rouleau


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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 9:42:08 PST
From: "John Cotterill" <johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com>
Subject: Foxx Beverage
Full-Name: "John Cotterill"

I have heard people mention Foxx Beverage out of Denver.  I have tried
to get their number from information, but can't locate it.  Could someone
pass their phone number along to me?  Also, does anyone know where I
can get a Wyeast catalog?
Thanks,
John Cotterill
johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com

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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 11:46:30 -0600
From: Todd Enders - WD0BCI <enders at plains.NoDak.edu>
Subject: SN yeast changes type...

[ Mike Charlton <umcharl3 at ccu.UManitoba.CA> writes]:

>  My brewing partner and I made up a few cultures of WYeast American Ale
>Yeast (#1056) to stick away for a rainy day (liquid yeast cultures are
>hard to get here), and have have been using them quite successfully.
...
[ Change in behavior of culture trimmed ]
...
>it has turned into a bottom fermenting yeast!  There is virtually no
>foam on the top of our fermentors and a huge amount of yeast
>sediment at the bottom.  

     This sounds more like your fermentation is over.  The yeast pancake
usually breaks up and sinks as fermentation ends and cells die/go dormant.
*All* yeast produces a foam head during primary fermentation.

>The other thing is that it has become extremely
>powdery and takes 3-4 weeks to clear.  My first thought would be that
>we just picked up a wild yeast that has taken over the cultures.  The
>only problem is that the beer being produced is of great quality (even
>better than before).  My other thought was that WYeast #1056 might be
>a mixture of S. cerevicae(sp?)  and S. uvarum (carlsbergensis) and that
>the top fermeting yeast just died of old age (~6 months).  Does anyone
>know?  I know that it passes a standard test for a lager yeast (it
>can ferment maltotriose, I believe), so maybe the idea's not too out of whack.
>In any case, I think I'll make up a second generation culture of it since
>it seems so good.
     
     Hmmm... I don't know about the powdery bit.  It may be that the culture
is indeed contaminated.  I don't believe that #1056 is a mixture.  Depending
on a lot of things, you may have induced a mutation in your yeast.  I don't
know what the stability of #1056 is, but mutations can happen, with results
varying from benign to bizzare.

     A standard test for lager yeast is fermentation of raffinose.  Just about
any yeast can deal with maltotriose.  Raffinose is only available from chem/
biological supply houses, to my knowledge.

     Actually, if it makes good beer, I'd make that second generation culture,
relax, don't worry, etc.  But, if the characteristics of the yeast change 
again, I'd pitch the whole works in the trash.  If you do have a mutation,
there's no telling how stable it is, so be forewarned.  If you aren't into
taking chances, throw out the old cultures, scrub, sterilize, even autoclave
your culturing equipment, get a new package of #1056, and start over.  This
would be the safest approach.

Todd Enders          Enders at plains.nodak.edu



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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 10:46:33 mst
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Through-the-door faucets

I chose *not* to mount my faucets outside the fridge for two
reasons: 1) I have heard of mold growing around the mouth of
the faucet (since its not refridgerated) and 2) if you don't
seal the interface between the outside air and the insulation
in the door, you will get condensation which will eventually
make your fridge *very* inefficient.
Al.


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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 09:49:58 PST
From: bobc at Eng.Sun.COM (Bob Clark - Sun Engineering)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #551 (December 06, 1990)

 -> HOMEBREW Digest #551		             Thu 06 December 1990
 -> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 90 07:39:25 mst
 -> From: Mark.Nevar at hp-lsd.cos.hp.com
 -> Subject: Soda kegs - how do I sanitize them
 -> 
	[...]
 -> 
 -> I got a new catalog from Alternative Beverage in NC.  They sell
 -> used kegs for 19.95 (as advertised in Zymurgy).  But, the lids
 -> may not have pressure release valves on them.  They sell reconditioned
 -> kegs for 35.95 which have been cleaned, have had the lids replaced,
 -> and have new o-rings installed.  I have heard you can swap old lids
 -> for the new ones from the company.  But what company ?  Is it free ?

	[...]

I ordered two kegs from them.  One came with a relief valve, the other
without.  The one without the relief valve is made by Firestone.  I've
been using it, but have been very careful about the pressure.

I'm also interested in any responses about the mfg replacing it, since
a new lid costs ~$17.

	Bob C.

	

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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 1990 12:01:00 EST
From: Marc Rouleau <mer6g at virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: Oh God, not Al vs. Stainless again!!!

On Dec  5,  9:41am, krweiss at ucdavis.edu wrote:
> 24 qt. aluminum pot is $50.00, and the same size stainless is $150.

From Chris Shenton's mail order summary:

 -> Rapids Inc: 1011 2nd Ave SW; P.O.  Box 396; Cedar Rapids, IA 52406;
 -> 800-553-7906.  Restaurant wholesale equipment. Most interesting: 10 gal 20
 -> gauge stainless pot: $80; matching lid: $20.  The pot is quality, and it's
 -> a good company with which to do business. [chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov]

    -- Marc Rouleau

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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 10:34:49 PST
From: ocarma at unssun.nevada.edu (Oran Carmona)
Subject: Reinheitsgebot


I got to wondering about this the other day and thought some kind soul here
could offer an explanation: If the purity law states only water hops yeast
and barley can be used to make beer, what about wheat beer?

O<

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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 08:47:36 PST
From: uunet!tc.fluke.COM!gamebird at uunet.UU.NET (Duane Smith)
Subject: Reconditioned Kegs


	In HB#551 Mark Nevar asks about reconditioned kegs and
	pressure relief valves. I bought 2 reconditioned kegs from
	Art's Brewing in Co. several months ago. Cost $25ea. Both were
	in real good condition with relief valves on top. Art said
	take your chances on the seals but when he sells them, they
	had held pressure for some period of time. I also bought re-
	placement seals just in case. These kegs are still sitting in
	my basement holding pressure(with original seals) after being
	recharged by me. Hope to put brew in them soon.

	Just a testimonial from a satisfied customer.

	Onto another issue.. I already have a Keg setup for regular beer.
	It is a Sankey type if that makes any difference. The hose sizes
	for bber and gas are different for the keg beer vs homebrew soda
	keg(1/4 in) vs 7/16 in for my keg setup. Are there any quick con-
	nect types things so I can easily switch between systems? Anybody
	else done this? Any help would be appreciated.

					Thanks, Duane Smith

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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 09:16:30 PST
From: keng at epad.MENTOR.COM (Ken Giles)
Subject: Re: WYeast American Ale Yeast

In HBD #551 Mike Charlton <umcharl3 at ccu.UManitoba.CA> writes:

>  My brewing partner and I made up a few cultures of WYeast American Ale
>Yeast (#1056) to stick away for a rainy day (liquid yeast cultures are
>hard to get here), and have have been using them quite successfully.
>It is interesting to note, however that the fermentation characteristics
>of the yeast are changing as it gets older...

Isn't it interesting how so many posts start with "My brewing partner and I..."?
Homebrewing is truly a social hobby.

When my brewing partner and I bought ingredients for a Christmas ale at
Steinbart's, they were out of 1056, so I asked for something equivalent. The
sales person said he had Wyeast 1021, calling it Steinbart's Ale Yeast. He said
it's a slight mutation of 1056. I asked what the difference was, and he said that
they differed mainly in flocculation rate (how fast it settles out), 1021 being
slower. They were busy that day, and we were in a hurry, so we took it and
didn't ask any more questions about it. We gave the beer 3 weeks of
fermentation, during which it didn't completely clear. One week after bottling,
it became crystal clear, and developed the most yeast sediment I've ever seen in
a bottle (that's out of at least 40 batches, in 5 years). I must have 3/8 inches
of sediment. Luckily, sticks well to the bottom, when pouring.

So, I'm wondering if you've created the same or similar mutation. I don't have
enough experience with 1056 to talk about whether the beer is better. Also, it's
a spiced Christmas ale (Papazian's Holiday Cheer), not my normal brew, so it's
not a controlled yeast experiment. I'll try to find out more about this yeast,
but I don't anticipate talking with the folks at Steinbart's until after
Christmas. Presumably, the yeast is valued over 1056 by somebody, or Wyeast
wouldn't propogate it.



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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 15:10:06 EST
From: mer6g at bailey.acc.virginia.edu (Marc Rouleau)
Subject: Why so few alcoholic beverages?

This is something I culled from the Bud vs. Miller wasteland of
rec.food.drink.  I thought y'all would be interested.  I'm kinda
new to the homebrew digest, so if you think this is inappropriate,
please feel free to let me know, hopefully privately and nicely ...

    -- Marc Rouleau

In article <1102 at ai.cs.utexas.edu>, throop at cs.utexas.edu (David Throop) writes:
>
>   Why are there so few (non-distilled) alcoholic drinks commercially
>available?
>
>   Almost anything with starch or sugar in it can be fermented.   And a
>huge number of things are fermented and distilled to liquors.  But in
>the undistilled category we have
>
>In large commercial quantities
>  Grapes - to wine.
>  Barley - to beer.
>  Apples - to cider.
>  Rice   - to saki.
>
>In small commercial quantities
>  Wheat - to wheat beer.
>  Plums and cherries - to wine.
>  Honey - to mead.
>  Muscedines (sp?) - to wine.
>
>  Beyond this -- what?  Am I missing something that's drunk undistilled
>and sold commercially?   There are on the order of, what, about 250
>starchy plants sold in large commercial quantities world wide.   Why
>aren't others converted into wine/beer?
>
>    Clearly, some of the plants wouldn't make it - fermented onions just
>aren't going to make a good drink.  But it seems odd that more of the
>fruits and grains don't get exploited - especially in seasons when
>they're in excess and can't be sold at a profit before they spoil.
>
>   Does acidity keep orange and pineapple juices from fermenting?  Do
>laws keep beers from rye, oats and corn off the market?  Is the
>undistilled mash from sugarcane palatable?   Have traditional cultures
>fermented drinks from beans and pulses?
>
>    I don't think it's just the taste.   Many things are unpalateable
>alone, but improve with blending.  If I understand correctly, barley
>beer, without the hops added for flavor, is not that great.  So why
>hasn't similar artifice worked on other alcholic concoctions?  In
>particular, I would think many of the starchy vegetables, if mixed with
>something sweet, would yield something good-tasting.
>
>David Throop

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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 90 13:33:14 PST
From: wicinski%winona.esd.sgi.com at SGI.COM
Subject: growing hops

has anyone tried growing hops?  i've been doing a lot of reading and i
think it can easily be done either indoors or outdoors. indoors would be
much better because then you can really control enviornmental flows to
fully develop a strain of hops you like. has anyone tried this? sure
sounds like a good way for doing experiments. with cross breeding
strains, etc. 

I like the quasi-experiments people are trying (fermintation lock glubs
was cool), has anyone tried collecting or collating the data people have
been sending to the list? 

tim






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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 90 13:44:37 PST
From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Subject: Beer body


Gee, I hate to bring up what might be an old debate, but here goes: in HBD #551,
Algis Korzonas mentions in his honorable retraction of some scandalous
claims concerning Chimay yeast that dextrins in beer give it body. 
Dave Miller vehementlty claims that dextrins most certainly do not give
body to beer, but rather that proteins do.

I do agree that bottle fermentation in any case doesn't add body.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 16:43:49 PST
From: ssiwest!young at llnl (indi)
Subject: Patriotic Duty...


	I have been requested to post this by a friend at Gillead Sciences
	in Foster City, CA:

	A friend of ours is going to Saudi Arabia soon, with the army.
	He wants to know how to make a *still*.  [ed. While this is not
	related to *beer*, it is related to *brewing*, right?  Do our
	friend from Alabama know?  ;-)]  He wants to get the equipment
	to build it before he gets shipped over there.

	[ed. I recently heard that the most requested item in letters
	written to friends in the US by US military, uh, members, is,
	yes, YEAST!  Would you beleive?  I wonder if they have any
	email connections out there...

	So, can any of you help him??!?!  I guess we should consider it
	our patriotic duty...]

	___________________________________________________________
	indi (Cathy Young)            Supercomputer Systems, Inc
	uunet!ssi!young           2021 Las Positas Court, Suite 101
	(415)373-8044                   Livermore, CA  94550

	Just spotted on the bumper of a van:
        It will be a great day when our schools have all the money
	they need and the air force has to hold a bake sale to buy
	a new bomber.

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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 90 20:23:38 PST
From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Radler

When I saw the word on yesterday's postings I was reminded of a nice 
beverage while in Germany this summer.  When we (wife Karen and I) asked
what it was the reply was "half beer and half lemonaid (or 7-up type pop)".
The beer half was usually a helles.  It was sweet, refreshing, and quite
drinkable, even for a beer purist like me.  

I don't recall seeing Radler in 84 or 87.  Perhaps it is recently more
popular.  It seems a generic name and not a brand name.

Oops on goofing Dave Miller's name concerning the review (slam) of his
Continental Pilsner book.  Funny, Larry Miller is member of our Brews
Brothers club and could probably do as good job with the material.

Norm
Hardy

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #552, 12/07/90
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