HOMEBREW Digest #567 Fri 18 January 1991

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Ancient brew needs help (Ken Schriner)
  micro in MO, Boulevard Brewing Company (Ken Schriner)
  Beer for the Slugs (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Re: bottle washing (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Homebrew Digest #566 (January 16, 1991) (Wayne Allen)
  baking bottles (Pete Soper)
  re: Mead + bees (Dick Dunn)
  Re:  Primary fermenter options (John DeCarlo)
  Re: Bottle rinsing (John DeCarlo)
  Home Brewing on Other Networks (John DeCarlo)
  Unsubscribe me please (Denis Anthony)
  Bottle Rinsing (Mike Zentner)
  Bottle Rinsing, Quite Yeast ("Justin A. Aborn")
  feed barley (kevin vang)
  re: Underaged beer at brewpubs (Chris Shenton)
  brew on planes, bacteria infections (durbin)
  Layered Beer (bob)
  The Wholesale Homebrew Club (S94TAYLO)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Jan 91 07:34:50 CST From: Ken Schriner <KS06054 at UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU> Subject: Ancient brew needs help The easiest remedy to a flat beer in the keg: Boost the CO2 pressure for several days, thereby forcing the beer to carbonate. Normally, after I keg a beer (any beer), I raise the CO2 pressure to about 20 lbs for one week. Then I lower the pressure to serving level. I usually lower the pressure by turning down the regulator and removing homebrew from the keg. (A nasty job, but someone has to do it :-) ) For my setup, serving pressure is about 8 lbs. Of course, everyone's serving pressure will vary depending on liquid tube size, lenth of liquid tube, height difference between keg and tap, temperature, beer type, head size preference, etc. Using CO2 from the bottle for carbonation instead of priming when kegging is the easiest way I have found to carbonate beer. It is also the most repeatable for me (probably because its the easiest.) Ken Schriner BITNET : ks06054 at uafsysb 220 ADSB, Computing Services Internet : ks06054 at uafsysb.uark.edu U of A, Fayetteville, AR 72701 (501) 575-2905 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 91 07:46:55 CST From: Ken Schriner <KS06054 at UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU> Subject: micro in MO, Boulevard Brewing Company I had the pleasure of touring the facilities at Boulevard Brewing Company over Christmas 1989. I gleaned the follwing from the tour. Boulevard Brewing Company PO Box 414881 2501 Southwest Blvd. Kansas City, MO 64108 (816) 474-7095 The Brewmaster is John McDonald. John has spent much time in Europe researching beers and brewing. He has done a fair amount of apprentice brewing there also. His intention is to bring back the type of traditional style beers brewed in KC before Prohibition. At the time he produced only Boulevard Pale Ale, but had plans to produce a Wheat Ale and Bull-E-Porter during 1990. Boulevard Pale Ale is a medium bodied, light amber colored ale. The fresh flavor characteristics are produced from blending two-row pale malt with a small amount of roasted carmel malt to give it its rich color. The sweetness of the malt blend is nicely balanced with a Cluster hop used for bittering and Cascade hops used for aromatic qualities. At the time they were capable of producing 2,000 bbl per year. They only had a kegging line and ale was available in 1/2 and 1/4 bbl kegs. I drank it first at a Mexican restaurant named Ponads or Ponachs or something like that. The restuarant was also located on Southwest Blvd (The Boulevard to Kansas Citians.) At the time, Pale Ale was not available in bottles. The Brewery is a 12,000 square foot warehouse on the Boulevard. Equipment at the brewery includes a 35 bbl, 50 year old copper brew kettle imported from a family brewery in Germany. New stainless steel fermenting tanks were fabricated in Missouri. John McDonald was a most gracious host for our tour. They have a tasting room very nicely done in oak. Windows overlook the brewery floor. We were treated to as much Pale Ale as I could handle. I got to steam up my glasses over a mass of Pale Ale wort in copper brew kettle. Even got to stir the wort and bung a keg. Great fun. By the way, they have great t-shirts. Ken Schriner BITNET : ks06054 at uafsysb 220 ADSB, Computing Services Internet : ks06054 at uafsysb.uark.edu U of A, Fayetteville, AR 72701 (501) 575-2905 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 91 10:35:11 mst From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Beer for the Slugs I'd like to suggest an alternative use for undrinkable beer. I like to try obscure beers that my local liquor store gets occasionally, but some of them have been real losers. I also use this method of diposal for bottles of Old Style Light and Falstaff that appear in my refridgerator during parties. I boil bratwurst in them! A little malt flavor, a little hop flavor... not bad. Also, I certainly don't like bratwurst enough to sacrifice a Liberty Ale or Twickenham Bitter (mine). Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 91 10:35:24 mst From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Re: bottle washing Jim Dryfoos writes: >I normally clean gunk out of bottles right away so later all I need is really >to sterilize. This is the most important thing you can do to make bottling easier. >Is baking the bottles necessary? No. >I feel like since I use bleach I need to painstakingly >rinse the bottles. When I used to bottle, I used to soak in bleach solution (1 or 2 tblspns per gallon of water) and then run hot tap water (160F) through the bottle via my Jet Bottle Washer for about 10 seconds. Some brewers don't even rinse out the bleach solution. >What about this bottle tree thing? A bottle tree is like an artificial X-mas tree without the needles. >Oh yea, is using a dishwasher sufficient? Some have a "sanitize" cycle -- I've never used one but some brewers say it works. Cleaning out the bottles immediately after use is very important if you use a dishwasher. One brewer had posted an article where he put some flower or something in a few test bottles to see if the dishwasher really cleaned them. I don't recall his results, but every dishwasher is different, so you would have to try the test yourself anyway. >What should be used as detergent if so? DON'T use detergent. A soap film of any kind will kill your head (well, your beer's head anyway). In fact, when I go to bars, I insist they reuse my glass so that the first beer washes most of the soap film out and the rest of the beers have a much more stable head. As I've already said, I no longer bottle -- I've found that kegging, in the long run, is about half the effort (partly from the lack of bottle washing effort and partly from not needing to decant the beer anymore). Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 91 16:15:53 CST From: wa%cadillac.cad.mcc.com at MCC.COM (Wayne Allen) Subject: Homebrew Digest #566 (January 16, 1991) Max Newman writes: >I am looking for extract based barley wine ale recipes. Does >anyone out there have a recipe that they would be willing to >share? maxn at intermec.com Here's mine, the best beer I've ever brewed (and getting better by the year!) Marigold Ale: 10 lbs Munton&Fisson Light un-hopped extract 2 lbs marigold honey 4 Oz. Fuggle leaf boil 1 Oz. Cascade pellets finish Munton&Fisson Ale yeast champagne yeast (I used red-star 8-) (It may not seem like enough hops at first glance, but it is...) Pitch ale yeast first, then after activity has subsided, pitch champagne yeast. Rack after clearing and let stand a LONG TIME in secondary - this will continue developing a long time, so you don't want to bottle too early and get over-carbonated. After bottling, wait A LONG TIME (> year). Watch out, you can get addicted to barley wine! wa Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 91 19:04:44 EST From: Pete Soper <soper at maxzilla.encore.com> Subject: baking bottles I've been using my oven to sterilize my bottles for a few years. Digest old timers may recall that when this came up, Dick Dunn suggested that this could be hazardous since the uneven heating could weaken the bottles and cause them to fail when put under the pressure of carbonation. I decided to keep quiet about this until I had collected some data. I guess around two thousand bottle's worth is enough to report on this with confidence. First, Dick is 100% right, that in some cases the bottles will be permanently weakened; depending upon the amount of headspace in the bottles, this could pose one heck of a health hazard. However the good news is that this weakening does not happen if the oven is started out at a low temperature and then ramped up a little at a time and the maximum temperature is kept moderate. I start at 160 and go up one wee skoshin ever few minutes, getting to 275-300 after maybe an hour. Based on what I've read it takes quite a while at this temperature to get guaranteed sterilization. I usually hold around 275 for a couple hours and then turn the oven off, letting it cool for 24 hours prior to bottling; I believe that trying to "force" the cooling of the bottles would be very risky. I forgot a batch of bottles were in my oven once, got hungry the next day and prepared to cook a pizza. Let's see "preheat oven to 450". OK, oven preheated, open oven door: Darn if there aren't 50 very hot bottles in there. Over half of those bottles failed during the two weeks after bottling and all the rest were discarded to avoid the risk of more failures. I was careful to minimize the headspace and so when the bottles broke they did so with no "explosion" whatsoever; they just typically cracked with a "clink" and drained. With a couple inches of headspace there would have been more drama. But aside from this adventure with stupidity I haven't had a bottle failure recently; I'm 100% certain no bottles have broken in the past 18 months. I use the same pool of bottles over and over and some are pretty light weight, but I'm now quite satisfied that using my oven carefully is a way to avoid having to soak the bottles in sterilant. Having said this, I believe that bottles must be *absolutely clean* prior to any sanitizing or sterilizing operation. The bottom line for me is making all the bottles of a batch of homebrew consistent. Careful mixing of priming sugar or extract is about the other 70% of consistency, IMHO. Thinking about the discussion of stratification of wort, keep in mind that just pouring your priming sugar on to top of the new beer and then bottling *doesn't make it* and will result in terrible variations in carbonation levels. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Pete Soper (soper at encore.com) +1 919 481 3730 Encore Computer Corp, 901 Kildaire Farm Rd, bldg D, Cary, NC 27511 USA Return to table of contents
Date: 16 Jan 91 20:55:47 MST (Wed) From: ico.isc.com!rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: re: Mead + bees > ...While I was boiling > the honey, my house was attacked by bees!... > ...This really struck me as odd that the bees would be > so attracted to the smell of boiling honey... Not odd at all. The bees were seriously offended by your mistreatment of their elaborate, extensive efforts at creating a wondrous foodstuff (and meadstuff:-). They sent emissaries to attempt to inform you of the error of your ways. DON'T BOIL HONEY! It isn't necessary, and it damages the flavor. Just heat it gently to sterilize. In fact, for typical mead proportions, you can boil the water (and any other ingredients you might need which actually require a boil, if any), turn off the heat, and add the honey. The temperature will remain high enough to kill off the baddies without hurting the honey. --- Dick Dunn rcd at raven.eklektix.com -or- raven!rcd Return to table of contents
Date: Thursday, 17 Jan 1991 07:39:27 EST From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Re: Primary fermenter options >From: Bill Thacker <hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!cbema!wbt> >First, on primaries. Our kit came with a plastic bucket >primary, but Papazian suggests using a glass carboy. His logic >(allowing the tannins and other vernicious nasties to blow out >the top) makes good sense, and it strikes me as odd that this >wouldn't be universally suggested. The obvious question is "is >there a good reason to use a plastic bucket for the primary ?" Well, food-grade plastic buckets are cheap and plentiful. Glass carboys are more expensive, less plentiful, and subject to breaking from being dropped, banged against something, or even temperature shock. Plus, they are harder to carry when full of beer. Also, since you can reach into a plastic bucket, it is easier to stir in yeast or priming fluid, take samples, clean, etc. OTOH, plastic scratches easily, leaving places for bacteria to grow (note that the sanitizing solution won't get in there to kill them). So you may need to change plastic buckets more often. Most people I know that use a glass primary use a 6 1/2 or 7 gallon primary and don't use the blowoff method. The majority opinion seems to be that blowoff doesn't really reduce the bitterness of your beer and is capable of causing explosions should the blowoff tube become clogged. I switched from plastic to glass after the first year. I think glass is better, but still miss the ability to take samples by simply dipping in a sanitized measuring tube. I do use a plastic bucket for mixing in the priming liquid before bottling. >Second, on small batches. It seems to me that brewing small >batches could be a handy way to check out wierd brews or minor >variations of a single recipe. Does anyone out there do this ? It makes a lot of sense. However, I am so lazy that I figure I might as well make 5 gallons each time, getting more beer that way if it turns out good. Also, if you use a secondary fermenter, it helps to have it full to the top to avoid contact with too much air and the resulting oxidation. Still, I have seriously considered buying a 3 gallon glass carboy for the very purpose of making small batches (or maybe two for splitting a 6 gallon batch and testing different yeasts or somesuch). >Third, on the law. Papazian, I think, says that homebrew cannot >be legally removed from the premises except for a beer-tasting >event. Can anyone comment on federal and/or Ohio laws >regulating homebrewing of beer ? I can't comment knowledgably on Ohio laws. However, having read the federal laws on homebrewing, there is nothing in there restricting transportation of your homebrew. I know in Virginia that there are laws restricting the amount of alcohol you can legally transmit across state lines (primarily designed to limit people going to cheaper neighboring states and stocking up). We can legally take our homebrew anywhere we want that doesn't restrict the presence of alcoholic beverages. Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Usenet: at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Thursday, 17 Jan 1991 07:40:02 EST From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Re: Bottle rinsing >From: DRYFO001%DUKEMC.BITNET at ncsuvm.ncsu.edu >I am curious about feedback on the above topic of rinsing >bottles. I find this the worst part of the whole process. >Oh yea, is using a dishwasher sufficient? What should >be used as detergent if so? *I* find it sufficient to sanitize my bottles using the dishwasher. I set it to rinse and heat dry (skip the wash cycle). The steam from the heat dry should sanitize all the bottles. I also try to keep all bottles clean by rinsing after use and occasionally tossing them into the dishwasher with other dishes. You want to be careful not to leave any soap residue on your bottles, though. Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Usenet: at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Thursday, 17 Jan 1991 07:40:50 EST From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Home Brewing on Other Networks >From: doc at brewing.cts.com (Mitchell M. Evans) > I have a request for information from a few other folks >on a local Homebrew Echo out here in San Diego on Fidonet. For those of you who use systems connected to Fidonet, there is a *national* Home Brewing echo called ZYMURGY, which is available from the backbone. I can be reached at 1:109/131 for any more details. Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Usenet: at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 91 13:19:01 GMT From: Denis Anthony <esrmm at cu.warwick.ac.uk> Subject: Unsubscribe me please Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 91 08:38:23 -0500 From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Mike Zentner) Subject: Bottle Rinsing Norm Hardy writes: >(1) Rinse real good after using, drain upside-down. >(2) ... I soak the bottles in a bleach bath (2% or so) for a couple of hours. This removes the layers of film that accumulate. >(3) Upon rinsing with the bottle jet sprayer and hanging on a bottle tree, > I usually go the extra mile and bake the bottles at 300f for 60 minutes. and James Dryfoos writes: > I am curious about feedback on the above topic of rinsing bottles. > I find this the worst part of the whole process. > I normally clean gunk out of bottles right away so later all I need is really > to sterilize. I use the above method of soaking in a bleach solution. > This and the process of then rinsing is a drag (I also use a bottle washer). > Are there better ways? Is baking the bottles necessary? I have not > heard this before. I feel like since I use bleach I need to painstakingly > rinse the bottles. Is something like bbrite a better alternative? > Any advice would help. What about this bottle tree thing? I usually > just shake out the bottle. It is usually still wet when I fill it with I too think that rinsing is a pain. That's why I don't do it. I just rinse after use, soak in something like 3 tbsp bleach / 6 gal water for a half hour, drain the bottles and put them back in the case. Then, I put paper towels in the lid of the case (over the tops of the bottles) and invert the case overnight. I have now done this for at least 5 batches and have not had any carbonation problems or infections. It is really a quite painless process, but certainly not as thorough as you could be if you wanted to be. Mike Zentner zentner at ecn.purdue.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 91 9:55:55 EST From: "Justin A. Aborn" <jaborn at BBN.COM> Subject: Bottle Rinsing, Quite Yeast I have noticed some concerns about bottle cleaning and yeast that does not really get going. I thought I would contribute some clinical evidence. Bottle Washing ============== I have brewed about eight extract batches in my brewing career and I have yet to produce a spoiled bottle. I rinse the bottles after I pour myself a cool, refreshing, homebrew and put them in the dish drainer upside down. This keeps mold nuggets from forming in the bottom. 10 minutes before I bottle I thoroughly rinse the bottles with a bottle washer using the hottest water I can come up with. I then stick them on a bottle dryer I made out of a 2x4 and 1/4" dowels. (The bottle dryer gets sponged off with a bleach solution before the bottle washing.) This bottle cleaning procedure is apparently completely sufficient. Like I said, out of about 450 bottles produced I have yet to get a bad one. Make your homebrewing as easy as possible. Slow Starting Yeast =================== At the moment, I am fermenting my first batch that uses liquid yeast. Apparently liquid yeast is not as robust as the dried stuff. This batch took *much* longer to get going that *any* of the dried yeast batches. I brewed on a Wednesday night (late), pitched at Thursday lunch, and it was not until Saturday night that it really started to bubble. The dried yeast batches usually got going in less than 24 hours. I am in the secondary fermenter now. All looks good. All is right. Justin Brewer and Patriot Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 91 10:41:03 CST From: kevin vang <MN033302 at VM1.NoDak.EDU> Subject: feed barley In HBD 566 Jeff Miller mentions that he malted his own barley, and was unhappy with the results, and goes on to say that he purchased his barley from a feed store. Well, there's the problem right there. If you watch the ag. commodities reports on the news, you'll notice that they quote separate prices for feed barley and malting barley, and the price is substantially lower for feed barley. The difference between the two is that by definition, feed barley is anything which isn't quite good enough to be used as malting barley. For example, if a farmer is out combining his malting barley and is suddenly hit by a major rainstorm, he suddenly has a crop of feed barley. If you want to find a better class of grain, don't go to the feed store. Try your local grain elevator around August or September. Of course, that's no problem here in the Land of the Amber Waves of Grain (North Dakota, in my case) but it may be more complicated in other parts of the country. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 91 11:58:15 EST From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: re: Underaged beer at brewpubs >>>>> On Wed, 09 Jan 91 12:16:24 EST, "Andy Wilcox" <andy at eng.ufl.edu> said: Andy> ico.isc.com!rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn) writes: >I'll go a little further out on the limb and say that there is no >such thing as a "young" or "raw" taste for beer (unless you choose >to equate "young" and "fresh":-). Andy> However, I can tell you this is *exactly* what I did for the first Andy> couple years of my brewing. Only after going back and tasting Andy> budmilob did I notice that a certain type of flavor was missing. I Andy> now equate this flavor with "freshness". I was intrigued by the initial argument that the only reason to age beer was to cover up some defects in the beer -- made some sense. But then how does that justify the German lagering tradition? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 91 14:34:47 EST From: durbin%cuavax.dnet at netcon.cua.edu Subject: brew on planes, bacteria infections I just got back from Germany with my case of fresh German beer, half Schneider Weiss(hefe-weizen) and half Andechs doppelbock. Originally I packed the case up real good in a baox and was going to check it in, but when I went they asked about it and I told them what was in it and they said no way( no glass, cans are okay). So I had a back up plan and put the bottles in my carry on bag, gave the plastic case to my dad and checked in my carry on stuff. Other than that no problems or hassles. So you shouldn't have any trouble on domestic flights as long as you carry on your brew. Also I noticed that German weizen beer bought in the states doesn't taste as good as in Germany, I think mainly because its not as fresh. The head on american bought weizen dissipates more quickly after pouring.Speaking of weizen beers, the bavarian dialect for weizen is weiss, so weiss beer in Bavaria is different than elsewhere in Germany, thus causing a bit of confusion to visitors who like weizen beer. I bottled the week before I left, and came home to a couple of cases of homebrew. One bottle I opened gushed foam( not like a real gusher) when I opened it, but all the others I've drunk have been ok. I was thinking that bottle might have had a bacterial infection, any ideas? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu Jan 17 16:03:30 1991 From: semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET Subject: Layered Beer In HBD 566, Mike Meyer writes: > I've had this same problem with measuring OG when using a closed primary. > There seems to be a lot of stratification between the cold water you put > in the primary to prevent thermal shock, and the hot or warm wort, and > it is very difficult to mix the layers once you are in the carboy, as > you can't fit a spoon in to stir, and there isn't enough headroom to > effectively shake. Here is an easy solution to your problems: Take a sterile turkey baster, stick it in the hole of your carboy, suck up some beer, and then squirt it back in with some vigor, then repeat many times. This will accomplish several things: 1) It will mix up your different 'layers' of beer; 2) It will create an even temperature through out the carboy; 3) It will aerate your beer; 4) It will allow you to easily extract some beer for your hydrometer readings; 5) It will allow you to mix in your yeast rather then letting it all settle on the bottom. This is what I do, It works great! But remember to leave enough head space for the foam you produce, otherwise it oozes over the sides. My baster is a cheap one and squirts a little beer out of the sides every time I squeeze it. So this is the messiest part of my brewing processes, but it gives me an excuse to wash the kitchen floor. (Albeit with beer :-) Happy squirting, - -- Robert A. Gorman (Bob) bob at rsi.com Watertown MA US -- - -- Relational Semantics, Inc. uunet!semantic!bob +1 617 926 0979 -- ++ Basted beer is better beer Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 91 17:03 EST From: <S94TAYLO%USUHSB.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Subject: The Wholesale Homebrew Club I should have just posted this info here in the first place: The Wholesale Homebrew Club 5760 Bird Road Miami, FL 33155 (305) 667-4266 Here are a few prices, all are typical, both in size and price. 1) M & F Malt Syrup 6-3.3 lb. cans-Unhopped $29.84 Hopped $32.49 2) M & F Dry Malt 55 lb. barrel -Unhopped $89.64 Hopped $94.30 3) Hop Pellets by the pound $ 5.25 4) Leaf Hops by the pound $ 5.25 5) Specialty Malts-5 lb. $ 4.10 6) Corn Sugar-50 lb. $20.13 7) Crown Caps-printed overruns-70 gross!! $32.78 8) Wyeast liquid culture-six pack $15.90 All prices don't include postage, but is very reasonable, considering the size of these orders. Membership fee is $25, minimum order is $100. Great idea for clubs. Remember, if you live in the Washington, D.C. area, call me before you sign up, I want to share this thing (i.e., I want to defer part of the cost of the membership!) By the way, I would like to see more recipes, or just ideas about recipes, posted on the newsletter. If you all are nice, I'll tell you my recipe for Cranberry Beer (actually, I'll post it anyway soon). Pucker up! rdwhah, Al Taylor Uniformed Services University School of Medicine Now let's raise a glass of our best homebrew to our men and women fighting and dying in the Persian Gulf. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #567, 01/18/91 ************************************* -------
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