---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Carbonation in Secondary (John DeCarlo)
  Recipe for Oatmeal Stout (Mike Tavis)
  G. Heileman Declares Bankruptcy (Richard Stueven)
  lagering (mage!lou)
  Month-long fermentation in secondary (CONDOF)
  cleaning bottles and glasses (florianb)
  Brewpubs in Phoenix? ("Gary Mason - Image ABU - 603-884[DTN264]1503  23-Jan-1991 2024")
  Grolsh bottles (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Mashing inna picnik cooler ("QMMAC::\"John_Post)
  A call to New England home brew clubs (Please beer with me  24-Jan-1991 1642)
  Dishwashers for Bottles (Allen Akin)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #570 (January 24, 1991) (Randy Tidd)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thursday, 24 Jan 1991 08:06:28 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Carbonation in Secondary

>From: Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU>

>This batch, and this has happened infrequently but a few times
>in the past, has a wonderful pinpoint carbonation right now as
>it sits in the secondary, even though its gravity is now stable,
>and it looks and tastes like it is ready to bottle.
>
>My question is this: why would this beer do this?  Why would
>other batches *not* do this?

I used to occasionally have this happen to me, though thankfully
I never ended up with any bottle-bombs.  Also had another
problem, namely that my airlock only had tiny bubbles in it, no
big ones going glub, glub.

So I mentioned that here and got lots of responses, mostly
suggesting that the top to my airlock must be on too tight.
Voila!  Now I make sure that the top is on very loosely.  I get
great glubs in the airlock and no more carbonation of any kind in
the secondary (I think, have been lazy the last few batches about
taking out samples to measure S.G.).

John "This may have nothing to do with your situation, though"
DeCarlo

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Jan 91 08:28:40 est
From: mtavis at saturn.webo.dg.com (Mike Tavis)
Subject: Recipe for Oatmeal Stout

I have a friend who is a great fan of Samual Smith's Oatmeal Stout.  I
owe him a favor and I promised to make him a batch of homebrew oatmeal
stout.  Does anyone out there have a recipe that they would like to
share?  I'm still on the lower half of the homebrew learning curve so
either an extract or mixed mash recipe would be best.  Thanks in
advance.

- -- Mike


  o o|	Michael Tavis
  o o|	HyperDesk Corporation, P.O. Box 182, Westboro, MA  01801
  ---+  E-mail: mtavis at saturn.dg.webo.com	  (508) 870-6114


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Jan 91 08:59:52 PST
From: gak at Corp.Sun.COM (Richard Stueven)
Subject: G. Heileman Declares Bankruptcy

Just heard on CBS Radio News...

G. Heileman CO. has just filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.
Heileman, maker of "Old Style" (for a long time, the most popular beer
in Chicago), has debts of $780M*.  The company claims that it should be
back on its feet by  spring.

*This figure sounds awfully high...could I have misheard it?

have fun

gak

**    Richard Stueven           attmail!gak               gak at Corp.Sun.COM  **
**               Monday is a work day, Tuesday's much the same              **
**           Wednesday comes and goes away, Thursday's back again - Madness **
**                  Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew!                    **

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Jan 91 10:57:42 MST
From: hplabs!mage!lou
Subject: lagering

There have been a couple of comments lately on just what "lagering" really
means.  I don't know the origin of the term but I do have an observation to
share.

Until recently, I have not had the facilities to do cold fermentations; I have
made several steam beers, however.  These beers were fermented and then aged at
60-70F.  Usually, I take beer out of the aging/storage area and refridgerate
a day or less before planning to serve.  On those occasions when get-togethers
are cancelled at the last minute, the beer can sit in the fridge for a week or
more.  I've noticed that this storing of the beer at lower temperatures for
even as short a week makes a marked improvement in the taste.  I've not yet
had the opportunity to make comparisons of this technique with beers that were
fermented cold.

Louis Clark
reply to: mage!lou at ncar.ucar.edu


Return to table of contents


Date:     Thu, 24 Jan 91 10:44 PST
From: <CONDOF%CLARGRAD.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:  Month-long fermentation in secondary

Brian Capouch writes:
>I wonder if any of you out there have ever had this "problem."
>I brewed a batch of beer on Christmas eve, and have been
>assessing it the last week or two for gravity and taste.
>
>This batch, and this has happened infrequently but a few times
>in the past, has a wonderful pinpoint carbonation right now as
>it sits in the secondary, even though its gravity is now
>stable, and it looks and tastes like it is ready to bottle.

Assuming you don't have an infection, the key word is "secondary." If you
rack a beer that has fermented completely out, the brief exposure to oxygen
causes the yeast to biochemically change gears. I've been told that it enters
malo-lactic fermentation. Whether that's technically correct or not, the
upshot is that the yeast is triggered into fermenting the higher-order
oligosaccharides, namely, what brewers usually call dextrins, which
contribute to mouth-feel/body.

From a practical standpoint, you can't stop this without pasteurizing the
beer or otherwise killing the yeast. From a commercial standpoint, you're
brewing "dry" beer.

>I also wonder how to figure out how much priming sugar to
>use--I did this once before to some sparkling beer, and got
>grenades a month later.

DO NOT BOTTLE. It can take well over a month for the yeast to do all your
dextrins. Wait until the pinpoint carbonation stops, then prime and bottle
normally.

There are two ways to avoid this kind of secondary fermentation: 1) (the hard
way) rack to secondary while primary fermentation is not complete; 2) (the
easy way) when racking to secondary, add the same amount of sugar/malt that
you would when priming. The latter way adds enough sugar to allow the yeast
to consume the oxygen without digesting dextrins, and will totally prevent
this phenomenon. There's actually a third way, which is what I use: since I
brew only ales and use fast-acting yeast, I do away with racking to secondary
altogether.
===
Fred Condo. Pro-Humanist BBS: 818/339-4704, 300/1200/2400 bps
Internet: fredc at pro-humanist.cts.com  Bitnet: condof at clargrad
UUCP: crash!pro-humanist!fredc [add ' at nosc.mil' for ARPA]
matter: PO Box 2843, Covina, CA 91722  America Online: FredJC

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Jan 91 12:38:47 PST
From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com
Subject: cleaning bottles and glasses

In #570, John DeCarlo quotes and comments on RANDALL SCHRICKEL's 
statements about cleaning bottles:

>with the rest of our dishes, detergent and all. Once or twice I
>tried sending the bottles through a second time, without
>detergent, right before bottling.  I didn't see any difference
>in the head retention of the final product, so I conclude that
>at least my dishwasher rinses the detergent out very
>effectively.  Dishwasher soap is formulated to rinse easily, so
>
...
>Specifically, Miller says not to use a "rinsing agent" (or
>something similar that removes spots or somesuch) precisely
>because it leaves a film.

Geeze!  I have a beer glass collection I brought back from Europe.
Routinely, I stick all the glasses in the dishwasher, dump in a 
bunch of Cascade Detergent, and run it.  The glasses come out
sparkling clean.  The beer poured into these glasses will form an
adequate head.  I just can't see any problem with treating bottles
the same way.

The alternative for bottles, if you are really a fanatic, is to
wash them with a solution of 1 tbsp TSP in a gallon of warm water,
rinse thoroughly until the glass is squeaky clean.  Then cover the
top with aluminum foil and bake the bottles at 350 F for one hour.
If there exist any microorganisms in the bottles after that
treatment which could spoil your beer, well, you've got the makings
for a real exciting SF film (beg your pardon for the pun).

Florian


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Jan 91 14:30:12 PST
From: "Gary Mason - Image ABU - 603-884[DTN264]1503 23-Jan-1991 2024" <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Brewpubs in Phoenix?

Hi -

I'll be in Phoenix next week.  Any brewpubs, or good beer bars?

Thanks...Gary

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Jan 91 15:52:36 mst
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Grolsh bottles

John Decarlo writes:
>4) My favorites are the ones with the resealable ceramic-top
>bottles (Grolsch-style).  No use of a bottle capper needed.

Don't forget to change the gaskets.  You can buy them in large
quantities from many supply stores or mailorder.  I have heard
that you should change it once before your first reuse and then
"occasionally."  Some digesters have said they change gaskets
every two times, others don't change them even at the beginning.
If I didn't keg, I would probably change them every three or
four reuses.  Your milage may vary.
Al.


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Jan 91 16:14 PST
From: "QMMAC::\"John_Post at Y_COPP_LASER\"" at addvax.llnl.gov
Subject: Mashing inna picnik cooler

Date	1/24/91
Subject	Mashing inna picnik cooler
From	John Post
To	Homebrew Digest
 
         Regarding:               Mashing inna picnik cooler
 
Hey ffolkes,
     I have been using a picnic cooler as a mash tun for a few batches now, and
can't ssem to get the OGs and FGs I would like.  I generally mash fer about 45
min to an hour at about 152-157 degrees, and use about 8 lbs of grain, with
about 1-2 lbs of that specialties.  My extract is *really* low, and I tend to
finish high....Hints?
 
john
 
 

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Jan 91 14:46:02 PST
From: Please beer with me 24-Jan-1991 1642 <hall at buffa.enet.dec.com>
Subject: A call to New England home brew clubs

The following letter was FAXed to me by Karen Barela, AHA Conference Director.
She is very interested and excited about getting New England area clubs
directly involved with the upcoming AHA Conference in Manchester, NH.
She gave me permission to post her letter here, and for it to be distributed
freely.  If your club hasn't seen it, please show it to your fellow members.
If you've been thinking about joining a NE-area club, there's never been
a better time!

I know that there are a handfull of active clubs scattered around New England
now.  Though there are not yet any well-established clubs in New Hampshire,
there are currently two starting up in the New Hampshire/NE Mass. area.  
Gary Mason posted information about both in HOMEBREW DIGEST.  John Welch is
actively working to start a club, and the kickoff meeting will be February 16
at his home in Pembroke, NH.  See HB Digest #331 for info, or call or write
John at 418 Nadine Rd, Pembroke, NH 03275, (603) 485-8381, or reply to me
for information.

Additionally, the Wort Hoggs Home Brewers Club is gaining perceptible momentum
and will be meeting again January 25 in Tyngsboro, MA.  See HB Digest #498
for general info, or reply to me if you want to try and make the 1/25/91
meeting or any future meetings.

This early activity is getting me psyched about the Conference, and I'm
confident that New England's home brew clubs, both new and mature, will
be ready to welcome the AHA and the world's home brewers to Manchester
in June!

 -Dan

  =_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=
  Dan Hall                        | Enterprise Integration/Telecom & Networks
  Digital Equipment Corporation   | ARPAnet: hall at buffa.enet.dec.com
  1 Digital Drive                 | EASYnet: BUFFA::HALL
  MS MKO1-2/H10, PO Box 9501      | Usenet : ....!decwrl!buffa.dec.com!hall
  Merrimack, NH  03054-9501       | N.E.T. : (603) 884-5879
  =_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=



AMERICAN HOMEBREWERS ASSOCIATION
736 Pearl Street
Post Office Box 287
Boulder, Colorado 80306 USA
Facsimile 303 447-2825
Telephone 303 447-0816

A Division Of The Association Of Brewers

							1/22/91

Dear New England Club:
	We're thrilled to be holding our Homebrew Conference in Manchester,
N.H., close to many of you.  In case you haven't heard, the dates are June 19
to 22, 1991, and the festivities will be at the Center of New Hampshire
Holiday Inn.  Registration information for both the Conference and the
Competition will be available in the spring issue of ZYMURGY.

	As a New England club, several events concern you.  Thursday night,
June 20, will be club night, where any club that wants one gets an exhibit
space for their T-shirts, mugs, pins, and especially beer!  To reserve a
space, call Dan Fink at the AHA.  Remember to start brewing your club beers
soon, so they'll be crystal clear and delicious to impress other beer lovers
at club night.  The Homebrew Expo will have its first of two nights running
alongside club night, so there will be plenty of interesting equipment and
supplies in addition to fine club beers.  After club activities wind down
the hospitality suites will run well into the night.  If you are interested
in renting a hospitality suite, contact Karen Barela at the AHA.

	On Friday, the New England Brewers Tasting will be combined with the
second night of the Homebrew Expo.  Both events will follow the gala awards
banquet, so be prepared to check out the latest supplies and equipment while
tasting some fine commercial beers served by the brewers.  On Saturday, the
plan is to tour breweries throughout New England, so here's your chance to
introduce your club to brewers from all over the U.S. and Canada.  How about
hosting brewery tours of your area for groups of conference goers?  Or maybe
help arrange for some Conference attendees to attend the Red Sox game with
your club?  How about hosting a club party and beer tasting?  The AHA will
help arrange transportation from Manchester and back again, and we'll assist
you in any other way we can.

	These are just some preliminary ideas for you to think about.
Remember, Saturday is *your* day to promote your club, get to know to
others. [sic] have fun *and* get some recognition for your club and its beer!
If you tell us your plans by the end of February, we'll help you however we
can, and we'll be sure to publicize your activities at the Conference and
in the program.  Contact Karen Barela at the AHA for more information or for
help with getting your plans moving.
	We're looking forward to seeing you at the Conference!

						Fermently,

						Karen Barela
						AHA Conference Director


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Jan 91 17:14:52 PST
From: Allen Akin <allen at atd.dec.com>
Subject: Dishwashers for Bottles

I routinely use a dishwasher for cleaning and sanitizing bottles.  I've
had no problems with bottle clarity, brew infection, or head retention.

Most times I've used ordinary dishwashing detergent.  As added
protection against soap film, I use detergent in the first wash period
but not in the second (i.e., I put detergent in the external cup but
not in the the latched soap compartment).

Just recently I decided to be more ecologically correct :-) and tried
washing soda instead of detergent.  As far as I can tell, there's no
difference in the result.

I always use the ``pot scrubber'' cycle with heated drying.

As Miller suggests, I scrupulously avoid the use of a rinse agent.
However, I've never run an experiment to determine what happens if
rinse agent is present.

Allen

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 24 Jan 91 23:29:10 EST
From: rtidd at ccels3.mitre.org (Randy Tidd)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #570 (January 24, 1991)

>From: randy at aplcomm.jhuapl.edu (RANDALL SCHRICKEL (NCE) x7661)

>I'm getting ready to make my first batch of home-brew, all I
>need is bottles to put it in.  I know that the returnable type
>longnecks (Bud & Coors) are usable, but they're hard to find

You know, I was thinking the same thing. My brew partner and I
have been buying six-packs of domestic long necks to provide 
ourselves with bottles, but it is a painful process (for both my
taste buds and my wallet).  There are a few beers that come in the
right bottles that are actually drinkable (Dominion Lager and Pete's
Wicked Ale, for instance) but we can't afford to drink the stuff
all day long.

So I went to a bar near school and asked the bartender what they
did with their bottles (they served Bud, Bud Light, Bud Dry, Miller
and Lite, among other yucky brews, all in long-neck bottles). She
said they pay a $1.20 deposit on each case of bottles and routinely
send them back to the brewer for re-filling. I asked if I could have
a couple cases of these bottles, and she got the manager, who went
around back himself and brought out the bottles. He didn't even charge
me the $1.20 per case deposit, he just let me have them.

The only thing is that the Lite bottles aren't quite the right shape/
size, but they outta work out if i'm careful when I bottle. The moral
is just go to your favorite local bar and ask them for their bottles.
Depending on what kind of beer they serve it should be really easy to
acquire a few cases real cheap; even if i'd paid it would only have
cost me $2.40.

Randy
rtidd at mwunix.mitre.org



Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #571, 01/25/91
*************************************
-------

---