---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Missing 583 and 587 ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Framboise and Wort Chilling (Mike Charlton)
  First batch... (Dave Beedle)
  cornelious kegs ("David E. Husk")
  Re:  Women & Beer (Jueal, Stacey)
  exploding cider (mage!lou)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #588 (March 04, 1991) (Lynn Gold)
  Problems getting digests ("N. Zentena")
  framboise hints (Bob Devine  04-Mar-1991 1156)
  Missing Issues (Brian Capouch)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 4 Mar 91 08:15:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Missing 583 and 587

I'm not sure if it's my latent perversity, or bad eyesight, but I never 
received 583 or 587.  I mailed to the -request address and asked, but no 
response.  (Guess Rob is busy.)  I can't even get those two off the netlib 
archives.  Could some kind soul send me copies of 583 and 587?  Many thanks 
in anticipation.

Dan Graham


p.s. Also, many thanks and great appreciations to those who answered my 
query in 587 (the one I missed) about brewing with bad vision.  I solved 
the labeling problem (I can't see 'em) by deciding to keep all bottles of a 
given type in a single box or set of boxes and label the boxes with a Dymo 
tape, (I can feel that).


"Reality is for those who can't stand homebrew."


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 4 Mar 91 9:36:37 CST
From: Mike Charlton <umcharl3 at ccu.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Framboise and Wort Chilling

Bill Crick
Gay Mason

Bill Cick asks about Framboises.  My brewing partner and I are in the
process of berwing a framboise.  We are now in the secondary (just
added the raspberries).  I'm not sure I remember the recipe exactly, but
here's a stab at it:

         7 lbs. Lager Malt
         3 lbs. Wheat Flakes
         1 oz.  2 year old Cluster hops that had been baked for 20 min.
         7 lbs. crushed raspberries
         WYeast #1056 American Ale Yeast

We did a beta glucan rest at 120 degrees for 30 mins,  a protein rest at
130 degrees for 30 mins, and a saccarification (sp?) rest at 155 for
1 hour.  Be exta careful with the sparge because it has the potential to
be very slow (although we managed to whip right through in 45 mins.).
We boiled the wort for 2 hours, leaving the hops in for the entie boil.
Cooled with an immersion chiller to 42 degrees and strained into a carbouy.
After 8 hours we racked the wort off of the trub and pitched the yeast.
We left it in primary for 2 weeks and then racked it into a carbouy and
added the raspberries.  We had a bit extra so we are doing a small fermentation
(without the raspberies) of about 3/4 gallons.  To this we added a teaspoon
of yogurt to try to get a lacto bacillus infection and produce lactic
acid.  If it produces anything interesting I'll post the results.  Anyway,
I can't comment on how this beer will taste as it is still in secondary and
is fairly expeimental.

Gary Mason asks about wort chilling.  The reason that I don't pitch the yeast
before I rack the wort off of the trub is that during the initial uptake of
sugar and oxygen, the yeast will actually use trub in preference to oxygen.
I have found that this produces an unacceptable amount of fusel alcohol in
my beer (gives it a strong bitterness at the back of the throat).  This
initial uptake of oxygen (or trub) occurs within the first few hours of
respiration (basically just after you pitch the yeast) and thus I would
say that it is inadvisable to pitch the yeast before you have gotten rid of
the trub.  I've tried it both ways, and racking before I pitch the yeast has
always given me superior results.  After perusing George Fix's book
("Principles of Brewing Science" or something like that) I get the impression
that several large breweries like to "carry over" the trub to the fermentation.
This is apparently because some breweries have a hard time oxygenating their
wort.  The fatty acids in the trub will give the beer a soapy flavour which
some people like.  I believe that Miller Lite must be one of those beers.
One of these days I'm going to try a split batch to see the difference between
an under-oxygenated wort with "trub carry-over" and a normal wort without the
trub.  I think it would be interesting.  I think to get away with the trub
carry-over you need a large pitching rate (to minimize the length of the
respiration time) and perhaps a low temperature fermentation (to minimize
the amount of other by-products).

                   Mike Charlton
                   umcharl3 at ccu.umanitoba.ca

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 4 Mar 91 9:58:01 CST
From: dbeedle at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Dave Beedle)
Subject: First batch...

     Hi all...well, the first batch is in the fermenter without too much
trouble...   A couple of questions, though (mind you, I'm not worrying, I'm
pretty much relaxed, and I did indeed, have a homebrew -- well, Sierra
Nevada Pale Ale since I didn't have any HB -- I'm just...curious).
 
     I pitched the yeast last night about 11 (it took a while for the stuff
to cool).  This morning there is some activity but not as much as I
expected.  I also notices a .25 to .5 inch layer of brownish white stuff on
the bottom of the carboy.  What is this stuff?  Is this normal? 
  
     The extract is Edme dark with Edme yeast, 1lb of corn sugar.
 
TTFN

- --
  Dave Beedle                                     Office of Academic Computing
                                                     Illinois State University
  Internet:  dbeedle at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu                     136A Julian Hall  
    Bitnet:  dbeedle at ilstu                                  Normal, Il   61761

Return to table of contents


Date:     Mon Mar  4 12:09:47 1991
From: "David E. Husk" <deh7g at newton.acc.virginia.edu>
Subject:  cornelious kegs

	Could someone tell me the phone # of the cornelious (sp) keg
lid replacement program.  Also how to tell if they need to be replaced?

		Husk at virginia.edu


Return to table of contents


Date: 04 Mar 91 17:16 GMT
From: JUEAL.S at AppleLink.Apple.COM (Jueal, Stacey)
Subject: Re:  Women & Beer

Dear Jeff -
 
If you want the local chapter of NOW picketing your brew pub you'll market a
beer especially for women.
 
I agree with your statement that women have been educated that beer is a "man's
drink".  Men continually feel/are taught that they need to take care of us
because we're helpless.  We're such delicate creatures that we could never
handle such a strong drink as beer.  And women have been told the same!  Let's
not perpetuate it by continuing this inaccurate message.  Beer is a drink for
*PEOPLE*.
 
Being a woman I have to deal with enough discrimination everywhere else, let's
keep it out of the pub!  Market to beer drinkers, not genders.
 
Regards,
 
Stacey Jueal
 
PS - Lots of us like stout you know!
 

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 4 Mar 91 11:02:31 MST
From: hplabs!mage!lou
Subject: exploding cider

In HBD #588 Mark Castleman and Sterling Udell write about making hard cider.

>	After pitching the yeast we put a stopper and fermentation lock in each
>jug.  The stopper is secured with some duct tape (just to make sure).  

I *strongly* recommend against this practice.  The stopper is not going to come
out unless the hole gets clogged somehow.  If it can build up enough pressure
to push out the stopper it can build enough to explode the jug.  Blowing a
stopper is messy; blowing a jug is much messier and dangerous.

Louis Clark
mage!lou at ncar.ucar.edu


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 4 Mar 91 10:38:16 PST
From: figmo at mica.berkeley.edu (Lynn Gold)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #588 (March 04, 1991)

>From rdg at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Mon Mar  4 00:12:06 1991
>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 91 01:00:06 mst
>From: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Are you SURE you want to send it HERE?)
>Reply-To: homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com (CHANGE THIS IF NECESSARY)
>Errors-To: homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hpl.hp.com
>Precedence: bulk
>Subject: Homebrew Digest #588 (March 04, 1991)
>Apparently-To: realhomebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
>
>
>
>HOMEBREW Digest #588		             Mon 04 March 1991
>
>
>	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
>		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
>
>
>Contents:
>  CIDER (MC2331S)
>  framboise, dry, Raspberry stout (Bill Crick)
>  Burlington, VT beer place (11PDAVIS)
>  Wort chilling ("Gary Mason - Image ABU - 603-884[DTN264]1503  02-Mar-1991 1444")
>  Women and Beer (Jeffrey Marc Shelton)
>
>
>Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
>Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
>[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
>Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 28 Feb 91 11:35 CDT
>From: MC2331S at ACAD.DRAKE.EDU
>Subject: CIDER
>
>Date: Sun,  3 Mar 91 19:19:45 -0500 (EST)
>From: Jeffrey Marc Shelton <js8f+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
>Subject: Women and Beer

>   In reading the responses that people sent me (thanks to everyone who
>did) about what selection/atmosphere/prices/etc. they wanted in their
>Dream BrewPub, there were references to the fact that there are a lot of
>women who do not like beer and that perhaps I should also sell wine in
>order to draw the husband/wife, boyfriend/girfriend crowd.    

It never hurts.  Most of the brewpubs I go to do this.

>    From my personal experience of those people that drink, about 85% of
>the men I know like beer, but only about 50% of the women do.  I can't
>seem to find any distinguishing characteristics between those that drink
>beer and those that do not (i.e.  those that don't are more picky
>eaters.)  This somehow leads me to the conclusion that this phenonemum
>is more of nurture instead of the nature.  Somewhere in childhood,
>(discounting those that would not like beer anyway) females are
>"trained" not to like beer.

It isn't so much that they're "trained" to not like beer so much as
they're (a) not encouraged to try it (beer is often an acquired taste)
as much as the guys are and (b) are discouraged in some circles (beer
IS perceived in some circles as being a "macho" or "blue-collar"
drink).  A lot of it has to do with one's cultural upbringing.

I LIKE a good beer.  I'm also half Slovak.  Beer is very prominent in
many eastern European cultures.  My Grandmom used to say "pizza isn't
pizza without a good beer."  On my father's side of the family, almost
NOBODY drinks beer.  They're Jewish, and you don't hear much about
"kosher beer."  They like their wines (dry as well as sweet) and their
cocktails, but beer?  Ugh.  For THEM, beer isn't part of their
culture, and it's also looked upon as "blue-collar."  After their
years in the service, my father and his brother occasionally drank
beer, but rarely.  Dad preferred ale.

>   This brings into some important marketing aspects that I might wish
>to consider.  For example, I know that more women are drinking "light"
>beer now that it is available.  Is this because it tastes
>better/different than regular beer (I am not under this impression) or
>that it has been marketed differently and comes across as being more
>"socially" acceptable (less calories, etc.)

I also suspect most Americans don't LIKE beer, but drink it for social
reasons.  Why would ANYBODY drink most of those DRY beers out there if
they LIKED the taste of beer?  In much of American culture, it's
considered "unladylike" to drink beer.

>Say that in my BrewPub I sell a beer hypothetically called
>"For Women Only." (This is an extreme case, in reality I would not be as
>blatent in naming the beer "For Women Only.")  Do you think that women
>would be more inclined to like the beer and frequent my establishment
>more even though the beer is of a similar type than others I sell? How
>about if it was a Pale Ale instead of a Lager? 

I think you'd have even less "woossy" women drinking the beer if you
gave it too specific-sounding a name.  If a woman is more concerned
with being "ladylike" than with what she's consuming, a very WIMPY
beer with a name like "Lover's Lager" or "Petunia Pale" might get her
attention.  Overall, I'd say pick something soft and flowery if you're
aiming at the woossy women, but keep it within the theme of whatever
else you're naming your brews.

- --Lynn


Return to table of contents


Date: 	Mon, 4 Mar 1991 18:16:08 -0500
From: "N. Zentena" <zen at utcs.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Problems getting digests

	Hi,
		I've missed a couple of issues lately[583&587]. These two
issues don't seem to have made it to the archive site either. Am I the only
person  to have missed these issues? If so could someone in the Toronto area
mail me these two issues?
	Thanks
		Nick

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 4 Mar 91 16:44:17 PST
From: Bob Devine 04-Mar-1991 1156 <devine at cookie.enet.dec.com>
Subject: framboise hints

bnr-rsc!crick (Bill Crick) asks:
> Anybody with some experience with Framboise care to post a recipe,and primer?

I've made a few batches of framboise.  Raspberries is a great addition
to beer!  Here are some :rules of thumb":
  1. I've found that to get the best flavor, you should add the
     raspberries as late as possible.  Make a smallish batch (about 3 gal)
     of your favorite beer to use as a base.  Add the berries when you
     rack the base to secondary.  You will get a trub of berry skins and
     seeds within a couple of days, just rack again to remove.
  2. For the best nose, prime with raspberry juice.  Folks in Colorado:
     look for Merlino's juice; it works well even though it has added sugar.
  3. Frozen raspberries sold in the poly bags works ok.  Plus they are
     more inexpensive than buying fresh.
  4. Finally, a light bodied framboise is great in the summer!

Bob Devine

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon,  4 Mar 91 21:19:06 -0600 (CST)
From: Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU>
Subject: Missing Issues

I seem to be missing two recent issues of HBD; I notice when I look at
the archives machine that it's missing the same two issues.  

Could someone who's received them send me issues #587 and #583?

Thanks a lot.

Brian Capouch
Saint Joseph's College

Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #589, 03/05/91
*************************************
-------

---