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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Micros in St. Louis (chip upsal)
  frozen wyeast (chip upsal)
  yeast & sassafrass (Joe Uknalis)
  sassafras in beer (Terry Noe)
  Extract Efficiency, a Matter of Semantics (Todd Enders - WD0BCI )
  Re: Ooops -- I put Wyeast in the freezer! (Chris Shenton)
  Cider (Rick Myers)
  Re:  Beer bottles and carboys (John DeCarlo)
  Mail Order Prices (John DeCarlo)
  Re: keeping fermenters cool (John DeCarlo)
  Capping champagne bottles ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Missing issues (DARROW)
  India Pale Ale (Ken Johnson)
  Re:  Barleywine bottles (John DeCarlo)
  What about tea beer? (Paul L. Kelly)
  Campden vs yeast (Dieter Muller)
  Still more info on the Wholesale Homebrew Club (S94TAYLO)
  1990 Recipe for Craig (Norm Hardy)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: 11 Mar 91 06:02:52 EST
From: chip upsal <70731.3556 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Micros in St. Louis

In HBD Doug Roberts ask about A micro in St. Louis.

As far as i know there in none yet.  Dave Miller is romered to wanting
to start some type of brewery there.  The law was only recently changed
in MO regarding small brewing operations so not much has happened yet.
The only Micro in the state is near or in KC.

If you have any inclination of visiting the big boys of brewing
Budwiser, don't.  There brew house is closed for remodeling until 1991.

Chip

"In heaven they have no beer, that is why we drink it here..."


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Date: 11 Mar 91 06:44:10 EST
From: chip upsal <70731.3556 at compuserve.com>
Subject: frozen wyeast

Chris Sheton:

>Any thoughts on it's chances for survival? it was only in for eight hours,
>but felt frozen solid when I moved it to the fridge.

I have heard of Wyeast freexing in transport and still beeing viable.
give it a try.

Chip


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Date:         Mon, 11 Mar 91 08:44:03 EST
From: Joe Uknalis <UKNALIS at VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      yeast & sassafrass

replies to hbd 593...
I've been able to culture live yeasts from samples that have been frozen
in liquid nitrogen for 2 hours...

Sassafrass root has a compound in it (I forget it's name) which causes
cancer (Doesn't everything nowadays...)  BUT I've seen sassafrass extract
(for making tea) which has the nasty ingredient removed ($2/10oz).

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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 91 7:22:20 PST
From: Terry Noe <terry at hpsadlu.hp.com>
Subject: sassafras in beer
Full-Name: Terry Noe

>Has anyone had experience using sassafras in beer.  I was
>originally going to try making a raspberry stout, but the only
>berries that I've come across in my area have sugar added --
>they're also not very cheap, and adding 3 pounds or so would start
>getting a little costly.
>
>One of our local grocery stores has fresh sliced sassafras root,
>but I'm unsure of how potent an additive it would be in a stout.
>It comes in a 2oz bag and smells very nice (plus it's a dirt cheap
>$0.49).  In _TCJoHB_, Papazian mentions the use of licorice root,
>but unfortunately he doesn't give a measurement by weight.  He just
>says use a 4 to 6 inch piece of root.  Any info appreciated.
>
>                                      Thanks,
>
>                                       Eric


I gave this a try a few months ago.  I used about one oz. of sassafras
bark, since I could not find any sassafras root around where I live.  I
made a light ale, with about 4 lbs of light malt extract and three lbs
of honey.  I added half the bark to the boil.  Unsatisfied with this, I
then made a tea with the other 1/2 oz and warm water, and added this to
my primary.

Unfortunately, I'm not very happy with the results.  The resultant beer
tastes mainly like tree bark!  It smells more or less like what I had
hoped it would, but the taste is bitter and strange enough to make
drinking this more work than pleasure.  I should have used less,
clearly, but I'm not sure that even a small amount would have been an
improvement over no sassafras bark at all.

Maybe sassafras root would work better than the bark; if you try it I
hope you'll post your results.  I've thought about trying a little root
beer extract in something like a stout.  Has anyone out there ever tried
this before?

Terry Noe
terry at hpsadlu.hp.com



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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 91 09:30:13 -0600
From: Todd Enders - WD0BCI <enders at plains.NoDak.edu>
Subject: Extract Efficiency, a Matter of Semantics


     I see that there's a little mixup as to the way Miller cites extract
efficency vs. Noonan.  Miller quotes extract efficiency as % of theoretical
maximum extract (ca. 35 points/lb/gal for lager malt), whereas Noonan gives
the actual percentage of sugars converted/extracted per pound of grain.

     So, if I'm getting 87-91% efficiency as per Miller, what I am saying
is that I'm getting 30-33 points/lb/gal.  It might be instructive to compare
both systems to obtain a sense of perspective.  But from my experience, it
should be relatively easy to get 30 points/lb/gal of extract if your mashing
procedures (grinding, temp. control, sparging, etc) are correct.

     Of course, the real issue is: do my procedures make good beer?  If so,
there is little incentive to change.  We are all striving to make good brews,
so the comparison of extract efficiency is of some value, at least to see how
our mashing compares with others (or with theoretical values).  But trying to
squeeze the last point or two out of your mash borders on excessive worry :-)!

===============================================================================

Todd Enders - WD0BCI                  ARPA: enders at plains.nodak.edu
Computer Center                       UUCP: ...!uunet!plains!enders
Minot State University                  or: ...!hplabs!hp-lsd!plains!enders
Minot, ND  58701                     Bitnet: enders at plains

     "The present would be full of all possible futures,
      if the past had not already projected a pattern upon it" - Andre' Gide

===============================================================================



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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 91 10:33:54 EST
From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Ooops -- I put Wyeast in the freezer!

>>>>> On Friday I said:

Me> Any thoughts on it's chances for survival? it was only in for eight hours,
Me> but felt frozen solid when I moved it to the fridge.

Well, it worked just fine. It was stamped `March', and the pouch puffed up
nicely in one day, and a starter culture did it's thing in the time it took
to mash and brew a 10 gallon batch of Maibock.

[Of course, I'm not gonna tempt fate and *recommend* this :-]

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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 91 8:54:43 MST
From: Rick Myers <cos.hp.com!hpctdpe!rcm at hp-lsd>
Subject: Cider
Full-Name: Rick Myers

> From: rtidd at ccels2.mitre.org (Randy Tidd)
> Subject: Making Cider
> 
> Mark W. Castleman writes:
> >     We add 1/2 to 3/4 c of regular sugar to each gallon jug.  We have found
> > that this gives the tase that we like.  More than thins will result in a more
> 
> According to this, you used 3-3/4 to 5 cups of sugar for a 5-gallon batch?
> That seems to me to be a lot of sugar, but then again i've never made cider.

1 cup/gallon is a lot of sugar?  If I want a strong cider, I will use 3-5 cups
PER GALLON of sugar...this usually comes out very dry and alcoholic, but still
tastes like apple cider.  I only use dextrose (corn), not cane/beet sugar.

Rick

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Date: Monday, 11 Mar 1991 11:14:23 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re:  Beer bottles and carboys

>From: William Boyle (CCL-L) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
>
>I am just getting started brewing, and I have about 3 dozen
>bottles.  The bottles are from a generic soda, they do not
>have screw off caps, they had the standard crown caps.  My
>question is they are not as heavy as "bar" bottles, can I put
>beer in them, and is there a chance they could explode.

I haven't had any problems with any soda bottles that don't have
the screw-off caps.  I have been told that the pressure in
american sodas is greater than the pressure the beer should be at
when carbonated (i.e., sodas often fizz when you open them, beer
should never fizz when you open it).

>Also I keep seeing things about a glass secondary (carboys),
>I can get plastic ones from water coolers, is there any harm
>in using a plastic one?

I don't know.  However, I have heard that most of these plastic
water cooler containers are not "food-grade", since they don't
expect to store anything acidic in them (like wort).  So stuff
could leach out of them.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Monday, 11 Mar 1991 11:17:54 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Mail Order Prices

>From: <S94TAYLO%USUHSB.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>
>Many of you out there in HBD-land have wondered about the high
>cost of postage. Well, postage worked out to be about 25-30
>cents/pound.  Total cost of:
>55 lb. unhopped dry malt        $115.68         $2.00/lb.!!!

This is typical.  I looked at three catalogs that sold 55 lb.
buckets of dry malt.  Prices were from $116 to $123.

>6-3.3lb cans M&F syrup          $ 42.00         $7.00/can!!!

I have gotten 6 lb. packs of extract from Williams for as little
as $10, in groups of 6 (on sale, but 11-11.50 isn't unusual).

>Specialty grains-5 lb.          $  6.50

Last place I ordered from all their specialty grains were
$1.00/lb.

>These are DELIVERED prices, actual price.  I would like to know
>if these AREN'T the best prices around, but they are more than
>50% less than most of the retail prices in this area.

I think they are better than going to a store and buying one
pound or one can of something, but are about average for buying
large quantities mail order.

On the other hand, if those prices reflect the addition of the shipping
costs (55lb  at $115 is great if $30 of that is shipping and $85 is basic
cost), then you got a great deal.

>Stainless Steel Stack Pots (5 gallon cap-$67.00
>Is this a good price?  'cause I really want one.)

I have seen 10 gallons ones with copper bottoms for $99 (want to
get one for myself some day).

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Monday, 11 Mar 1991 11:18:29 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: keeping fermenters cool

>From: Dan Strahs <strahs at murex.bioc.aecom.yu.edu>

> I would like to brew ales, but I need to find a way to lower
> the temperature of the primary about 5 to 10 degrees farenheit.
> Does anyone have any ideas/suggestions/information?

I read in this digest about draping a wet towel, with ends in a
bucket of water, around the carboy.  A friend of mine tried it
and thinks it works wonderfully in his apartment.  Evaporation
cools the carboy, as I understand it.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: 11 Mar 91 08:39:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Capping champagne bottles

I just got a case of champagne bottles and want to bottle in them.  The 
normal 28 mm. caps I use on beer bottles do fit, but they don't come down 
on the sides of the bottle top as snugly as they do on the 12 ox. bottles.  
My capper, an Italian device whose name I can't remember for my life, says 
that a set of tongs for 30 mm. caps may be obtained for champagne bottles.  
Am I going to have to get those different tongs and use 30 mm. caps, or 
will the caps I have do.  I tried a couple and the seal seems to be very 
tight, just the sides being funny as I just mentioned.  Do I have a 
problem?  (Not to worry, though!)

Dan Graham


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Date:     Mon, 11 Mar 91 13:45 EST
From: <DARROW%IUBACS.BITNET at UICVM.uic.edu>
Subject:  Missing issues

Homebrew digests not arriving:

#583
#587

Would you please resend them?  Thank you.

          D. D>>->

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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 91 11:33:47 PST
From: kjohnson at argon.berkeley.edu (Ken Johnson)
Subject: India Pale Ale

I'm teaching a friend of mine how to brew.  The second training batch will be
an extract India Pale Ale from the  CJoHB.  I have a question about the amount
of gypsum to add.  With a recipe for 5 gal of:

7 lb pale malt extract
1 lb crystal malt
.5 lb toasted pale malt
2 oz cfj90 aa=~9.8
.5 oz cascade aa=~6.8 (both pellet)
gypsum
Wyeast London Ale

what amount of gypsum would one want to use.  East Bay water has less than
10 ppm Ca and all the other good ions, so we're starting out with pilznerish
water.  I was thinking of adding 2 tsp. of the gypsum.  All comments on the
IPA brewing and water salt content for specific beer types welcomed.  Also,
what pH range are we talking about?  If it's not in there, how would one easily
change the pH? 

curious,
kj

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Date: Monday, 11 Mar 1991 15:38:28 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re:  Barleywine bottles

>From: nt at Eng.Sun.COM (Nick Thomas)

>        I've called all over the West Coast trying
>to find some 6 oz bottles for bottling my barleywine, and
>can't find any.  Does anyone know of a source?

The only bottles I have been able to find that are that small are
the holiday Coke bottles.  It's expensive, though, so unless you
have someone who really likes Coke and likes the small bottles,
but doesn't mind you using them for beer, it isn't a very good
solution.

(Note: I just got 583 from the netserver, so that's why the late reply)

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 91 16:03:58 EST
From: pkel at psych.purdue.edu (Paul L. Kelly)
Subject: What about tea beer?


Okay, we've all heard about/made/tried beers with coffee in them.  I happen
to be a tea lover, and I'm wondering if anybody out there has ever made a
beer with tea.  Just before Christmas this year, I made a rather wonderful
liqueur with jasmine tea, and I'm becoming more and more convinced that a
beer made with some sort of tea would not at all be a bad idea.  Anybody out
there have any experience with this?  Any ideas as to why it might be a bad
idea?

And for those of you who want to try out making the Jasmine Tea Liqueur,
here's the recipe:

1 pint dark rum
1/2 cup jasmine tea
1 cup sugar syrup

Steep the tea in the rum for 24 hours, and remove.  Make the sugar syrup by
boiling 1 cup of sugar in 1/2 cup of water (it will be VERY thick).  When
the syrup cools, add to the rum.  It's ready to drink immediately.  This is
a very nice after dinner liqueur, but you may drink it any time you want to.
If the tea flavor is too strong, try steeping for a shorter time, cutting
down on the amount, etc.  Likewise, the amount of sugar may be a bit excessive
for many tastes, so experiment.

Cheers,

Paul


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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 91 18:05:57 MST
From: dworkin at habitrail.Solbourne.COM (Dieter Muller)
Subject: Campden vs yeast

I just finished working my way through the first of the recipes in the
``Making Mead'' book I've got (can't remember the authors -- they're
very British, the cover's orange).  The part that confuses me is the
adding of the Campden tablets.  The directions were something to the
effect of ``add two Campden tablets, wait 24 hours, then add the
yeast.''  The idea, as I understand it, is to kill all the little
beasties that managed to wander in while you weren't looking.  So why
doesn't the yeast die?  Especially since they say to add another
tablet after each racking.

If the theory is that the sulphite settles out, thus not coming into
contact with the yeast, it seems like any movement of the fermenter
runs a good chance of killing the yeast.

I think I'm confused....

	Dworkin
See you at Al Packer's Legendary Culinary Fast-Food Cannibal Bar and Buffet
dworkin at solbourne.com                      Flamer's Hotline: (303) 678-4624

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Date:     Mon, 11 Mar 91 19:08 EST
From: <S94TAYLO%USUHSB.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:  Still more info on the Wholesale Homebrew Club

Well, I said the last message would be THE Final report, but forgot their
address and phone number.  It is:
        The Wholesale Homebrew Club
        5760 Bird Road
        Miami, Florida  33155
        (305) 667-4266
I also forgot to mention this time that there is a $25 annual membership and
that there is a $100 minimum order before postage.  See the last issue for
examples of the great deals this place offers.
Al Taylor
Uniformed Services University
School of Medicine
Bethesda, Maryland
s94taylor at usuhsb.bitnet

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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 91 20:33:03 PST
From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy)
Subject: 1990 Recipe for Craig

A question about the 2nd place Pale Ale recipe from 1990 - Cascade Pale Ale:
It was exactly the same as the previous 1989 best of class winner, but the
1028 yeast attenuated further than planned.  I entered it as a British Bitter
and a Pale Ale.  The Pale Ale got the 2nd place.  The Brit Bitter got knocked
out in the 1st round.  

I just bottled this year's "version", the same except for .25 oz Cascade cones
in the secondary for dry hopping.  Very nice beer, fermented and conditioned
in 19 days.  It helps to get a proper yeast starter, indeed.

Norm Hardy


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #594, 03/12/91
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