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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Biostatistics and Beer (S94TAYLO)
  Mason Jar replies (chris)
  #608 reusing water (chip upsal)
  UPS returns HOMEBREW COMPETITION entry's (braumeister)
  Beer HyperCard Stacks (IOCONNOR)
  Re: Get a Clue (hersh)
  Los Angeles Pubs & more Alcoholic Science (!) debate (Ron Rader)
  15 gallon carboy? Hunter energy monitor? (Jean Hunter)
  Beer recipes (DAVID)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #622 (April 24, 1991) (msharp)
  Re: Alcoholism (S94WELKE)
  Can I forfeit the deposit and use the Busch keg? (boubez)
  bottling after long period in secondary (krweiss)
  Norm Hardy's trip to Germany (Ken Johnson)
  Brewpub info request (adietz)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
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[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date:     Thu, 25 Apr 91 08:28 EST
From: <S94TAYLO%USUHSB.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:  Biostatistics and Beer

I am a first year medical student and let me tell you, one of the most common
lines you will hear from any first year about the course load is "When am I
ever going to use this basic sciences crap in my career?  If I wanted Biochem
I would have never graduated from college.  Well, as it turns out, one of these
courses is Biostatistics, which the department says is important in teaching
us Young Doctors in Love how to interpret data presented in medical literature.
Finally a practical application:  health risks/benefits of beer/alcohol.

Perhaps the greatest source of hidden error in research data is a phenomenon
nicknamed "The Great Confounder".  This represents apparent cause/effect
relationships when there are none, but instead the "cause" is only closely
associated to the true cause, but not the effect.  Example:  An apparently
well designed study identifies a correlation between number of matches in one's
pocket at any one time and the risk of lung cancer.  All the data supports it.
People who never have matches in there pocket almost never get lung cancer, or
many other respiratory and cardiovascular diseases.  So what is it about
matches that causes cancer?  Well, of course, you say, people with matches
smoke cigarettes.  Well maybe beer drinkers smoke more cigarettes, too.  Think
about it.

I'm sorry I'm running on, but I get so few opportunities to practically apply
my limited knowledge.
Al Taylor
Uniformed Services University
School of Medicine
Bethesda, MD
s94taylor at usuhsb.bitnet

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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 91 8:14:12 CDT
From: medch!chris at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Mason Jar replies

Thanks for the answers about Mason Jars.  I'll admit, I hadn't
thought about their ability to withstand the pressure of homebrew. 
I was more concerned about whether or not they would seal tight
enough for fermentation.  Oh well, it was just a thought...plastic
2-liter bottles don't appeal to me much at all.  
- -- 
                    # 
Chris Hudson        #  
b17a!medch!chris    #              Rub her feet.
X1375  IW17A5       #
Intergraph          #                     -Lazarus Long
                    #


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Date: 24 Apr 91 23:12:16 EDT
From: chip upsal <70731.3556 at compuserve.com>
Subject: #608 reusing water

Opon returning to the online world and picking up old mail I noticed an
old posting about concerving water.  I try to save as much water as
possible since I haul my water from a near by well and I use solar power
to run it in the house.

First off I use all water from the chiller to clean up.  If there is any
left over I dump it in the washing machine for the next load.
The same goes for water from sanatizing solutions ect.  the little bit of
bleach will not affect the cloths at all.

Chip


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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 91 09:40:44 EDT
From: wolfe at zeus.WEC.COM (braumeister)
Subject: UPS returns HOMEBREW COMPETITION entry's

   	Friday, April 19,1991, I had returned to me, my homebrew entries.  
Reason, UPS does not violate Federal Law of Interstate Transport of Alcoholic 
Beverages across state lines.  When the package left Maryland, somehow
the UPS distribution center in Pennsylvania decided to check my package.
They decided that it was really beer, although it was not marked as such.
They informed me that they "know" all of the tricks and are watching for
packages marked: beer, yeast, vinegar, malt, "Zymurgy".  They also know
of the competition, it's locations and dates. 
	I was intructed to cease and desist my attempted shipping of
alcohol across state line, or they would report me to the BATF.
note: the entries were shipped from Baltimore MD, on April 10, 1991.
Package was marked: "Liquid in Glass, Yeast Cultures".
	We need to find a solution to this problem!!

	

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Date:    Thu, 25 Apr 1991 10:19:31 EDT
From: IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR.EDU
Subject: Beer HyperCard Stacks

I have a Macintosh program which might be of some interest to home 
brewers.  You need a Macintosh and HyperCard to run it, so ignore this 
if you don't.

It is the Beer HyperCard stacks.  Evrything you wanted to know about 
beer, including breweries (US only), recipes, etc.  It doesnt cover 
everything, but it's still kinda nice.  It's shareware.  I didnt write 
it, but I uploaded it to sumex (a Mac archive).

Anyone who is interested in a copy, email me and I'll help you get a 
copy.  Please tell me if you have ftp capability.

Kieran O'Connor
 
Bitnet:  IOCONNOR at SUNRISE     Internet: IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR.EDU


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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 91 10:50:41 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Get a Clue


Chuck says> I am getting real tired of reading
I knew this would happen sooner or later, too many homebrews Chuck :-)

(Sorry I basically can't resist the temptation to quote Chuck out of context)

JaH


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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 91 11:13:56 EDT
From: rlr at bbt.com (Ron Rader)
Subject: Los Angeles Pubs & more Alcoholic Science (!) debate

  csswingley at ucdavis.edu shares with us:

> 	Also check out the Crown City Brewery in Pasadena CA down in the
> Los Angeles area.  It is a block from the Amtrak station (which is how I
> discovered it)  It has excellent beer, as well as offering a multitude
> of world beers to choose from.  It's the best micro I've been to.

  I wasn't as enthused over their beer, although I must admit that at times
it was great!  I don't know if there were different brewmasters or what, but
going to Crown City fairly regularly revealed a lot of variance in their
brews.  Sometimes the stout was a bit too flat and thin for my taste.  I do
like their Mt. Wilson Ale, though.  The food is good as well, although a bit
too pricey (like everywhere else near Old Town Pasadena).

  When in Pasadena, get to the Loch Ness Monster Pub (north on Fair Oaks,
I don't remember the address).  Center of the infamous Doo Dah Parade, this
is a nifty little pub without their own brew, but they do have Bass, Watney's
and Guiness on tap, and loads of other stuff in the bottle.  Good bands on
the weekends, with a fairly cheap cover.

  In L.A. proper, I recommend Gorky's.  There's one downtown near the Museum
Of Contemporary Art and Little Tokyo, and I think they opened one up in
Hollywood where the old Tick Tock Diner used to be.  Gorky's is insufferably
gimmicky (with their "Soviet Socialist" theme), but it is lots of fun to go
to and hear bands.  Don't know too much about their food.  Lots of artsy
types in and out, nothing like the yuppified atmosphere of most brewpubs.
I like Gorky's amber and dark brews in particular, these seemed more consistent
than the Crown City brews (to me, anyway). 


  And Fred Condo <CONDOF at CGSVAX.CLAREMONT.EDU> sez:

> I also think the War on Drugs and Alcohol is really a War on Liberty

  Yes.  Thank you.

> As someone who does research that involves the use of statistics, I know how
> easy it is to do bad science. That's why one must remain skeptical and ever
> vigilant against error.

  Regarding statistical analysis, one thing my Applied Psychology professors
always pounded into our skulls was the very important concept:

    Correlation, In And Of Itself, Does Not Imply Causation!

  To demonstrate the importance of this rule, we were given the raw data for
a study of birth order and the effects on intelligence.  The class analyzed
this data using common statistical methods, and came up with a very valid and
significant conclusion.  Something like firstborn children most definitely
tend to have higher intelligence.  Mind you, our analysis was not flawed,
according to the professor.  Chuckling, he handed us the data for parental
involvement, and very quickly showed us how this neglected component completely
invalidated our previous conclusion.  The correlation was present and the
causation implied, yet with more information, poof! no causation!  Powerful
stuff, and I'm never able to read anything statistical in the newspaper without
thinking "what's wrong with this study?"

  Science is most definitely politicized, and the neo-prohibitionists are
among the worst misusers of statistics.  Remember that as you down your fourth
homebrew for the week ;) .

- -- 
ron rader, jr  rlr at bbt.com OR ...!mcnc!bbt!rlr = Opinions are my own and do
| |  i gotta six-pack & nothing to do...       = not necessarily reflect those
 | | i gotta six-pack & i don't need you       = of BroadBand Tech. (SO THERE!)
  *** Punk ain't no religious cult, punk means thinking for yourself - DKs ***

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Date:         Thu, 25 Apr 91 11:48:41 EDT
From: Jean Hunter <MS3Y at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      15 gallon carboy? Hunter energy monitor?

In HBD 623, Ted (tsamsel at usgsresv.bit) mentions a 15 gallon carboy.  My
largest vessel is a 12-gal antique wine jar, thin-walled, pear shaped, made of
pale green glass. It originally came to me in a wicker basket, padded with
wood shavings.  I'm guessing it's Portuguese or Italian.  I would be thrilled
to get a modern, thick walled 15 gal carboy as I cringe whenever I have to
move or scrub my fragile old relic.  Any leads?
   Ken Ellinwood (aimla!ruby!ken at uunet.uu.net) is searching for a Hunter
Energy Monitor.  Having read the brief recent posting, so am I.  Any leads on
manufacturer or distributor?  Thanks, and happy lagering.  -- Jean Hunter

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Date:    Thu, 25 Apr 1991 12:18:19 EDT
From: POORE at SCRI1.SCRI.FSU.EDU (DAVID)
Subject: Beer recipes

Regarding the beer use in recipes...

I think if you flatten the beer it won't be so bitter. I used to make a 
dish called Carbonade Flamande (Belgian Mock Venison Stew was teh 
translation given in my recipe) which calls for a cup or two of flat beer. 
I made it once without flattening the beer, and it was too bitter to eat. 
Ever since, flat beer makes a great dish.

David Poore
poore at gw.scri.fsu.edu

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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 91 13:41:49 EDT
From: msharp at gull.ulowell.edu
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #622 (April 24, 1991)

[Pete Soper says:]
  
>   Mike Sharp advertised Pediococcus cultures recently. I'm curious about how
> closely related this type of Pediococcus is to the Pediococcus that scares
> the bejesus out of commercial non-Lambic breweries? I suggest folks explore
> this before letting this bacteria into their homes.

	As for the relationship of this Pedio. to the one which has been
	known to inhabit breweries -- yup, this is the one.  Be careful
	folks.

	I doubled checked this with the lab that supplied the original
	cultures.  There is no problem using this strain of bacteria
	PROVIDED that all fermenters, utensils, racking tubes, etc
	are sanitized with the usual bleach solution.  This assumes
	that you are starting with something that can't be sanitized to
	being with (i.e. NOT wood).  In other words, do what you always
	do (or should) and you won't have any problems.

	I'd go further than this and also avoid soft plastics just in
	case.  This means either a glass primary/secondary, or, if you're a
	fanatic like me, a special oak one.

	The problem that breweries have is due more to their size than
	anything else.  Pedio is hard to kill in a brewery because it can
	hide anywhere in your ten story building.  The standard homebrew
	5 gallon setup doesn't have this problem.  If you want to be
	extra sure everything is dead you can put it in a tube full of
	bleach -- commercial brewers can't put their whole plant in a
	tube of bleach.

>   I hate like hell to mention this and feel Mike's offer of slants is a
> great idea. Hopefully I'm wrong and this is a "friendly" Pediococcus and
> not the one that is hard to kill and which can permanently infect brewing
> environments.

	This was a good question so don't worry about it.  Since I'm
	brewing only Lambics its something I've never worried about.

	Finally, part of my testing of this prior to sending it out is to
	see if it causes infection problems for two volunteers.  Getting
	these results will take a little while, so if you're nervous I'd
	wait for an announcement of the results (probably around the end
	of June).

		--Mike Sharp	

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Date:     Thu, 25 Apr 91 14:29 EST
From: <S94WELKE%USUHSB.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:  Re: Alcoholism


In HBD 623, James Zuniga (ZIGGY) Writes:
>        WHAT IS ALCOHOLISM?
>                1) CAN'T CONTROL THE AMOUNT HE OR SHE DRINKS
>                2) FAILS TO YIELD WARNINGS OF FRIENDS AND FAMILY ABOUT HIS OR
>                   DRINKING
>                3) ALLOWS ALCOHOL TO BECOME MORE IMPORTANT THAN HIS OR HER
>                   COMMITMENTS
In the military, people can be involuntarily referred for alcohol
rehabilitation if they drink so much that:
        1) they neglect their job
        2) they neglect their responsibilities
        3) it's hurting their family
        4) their health suffers
Most people are unaware (or unwilling to admit) these effects are occurring;
that's why it's important for friends to be bold enough to let someone
know they appear to have a problem.  Alcohol, you see, can dull your
perception of the things on my list; so #2 on Ziggy's list is everyone's
responsibility to those they care about.  If a person says they're
irritated by friend's warnings, this is a clear signal of alcoholism.
Worse--most alcoholics deny their problems (much less their illness).
So be careful...we all love beer, but we're playing with fire.
- --Scott Welker, Uniformed Services University Med School


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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 91 16:27:47 EDT
From: boubez at bass.rutgers.edu
Subject: Can I forfeit the deposit and use the Busch keg?


I sent this a little while ago, but never received any responses. As it
happens our /usr disk was wiped out, and some mail was lost for a couple of
days, so I'm assuming I lost some stuff there. Of course, it could also be
that nobody is interested in replying, in which case I won't bother a third
time.


As the Subject line indicates, one of my roommates had a party and got one
of those nifty large Busch kegs with the hand-pump. He had to leave a $40
deposit for it. This got me wondering.... I know this has been discussed in
the past, but I don't remember when, so I'm asking again. I'd appreciate
either direct answers, or references to previous issues in the HBD
archives. So, getting to the question, Can I use this keg for kegging my
beer? If so, are there any modifications, special instructions, etc...
I figure that $40 is not too bad to pay for a kegging system. Any comments/
Thanks in advance.

toufic

            R 2 4
            |_|_|      Toufic Boubez
            | | |      boubez at caip.rutgers.edu
            1 3 5      CAIP Center, Rutgers University





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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 91 15:14:00 -0700
From: krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Subject: bottling after long period in secondary

Opinions please... I've got a batch of beer which ended up sitting in the
secondary for a long time -- around eight weeks. The beer is really nice
and clear, and shows no sign of infection.

My question is this: Should I add fresh yeast before bottling, to ensure
carbonation?


Ken Weiss
Manager of Instruction
Computing Services
U.C. Davis
Davis, CA 95616

916/752-5554
krweiss at ucdavis.edu


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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 91 17:50:31 PDT
From: kjohnson at argon.berkeley.edu (Ken Johnson)
Subject: Norm Hardy's trip to Germany

Does anyone have copies of Norm Hardy's trip to Germany which he posted last
summer?  I'm wishing I had it now.

2nd item.  Get off the beer health effects/alcoholism trip.  You all sound like
my mother.

kj

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Date: 25 Apr 1991  17:18 EDT
From: hplabs!ames!rutgers!bellcore.bellcore.com!hera!afd (adietz)
Subject: Brewpub info request

Geez, I hate to ask this, I swore I never would...

What:  Another request for SF brewpub list
Why:   Another visit by someone to the SF bay area
When:  Another Wed. May 1 -> Sun. May 5 trip.

Private e-mail please.  No use clogging up the digest with rehashed info.
What the heck, go for broke.  If anyone has the information phone # for
Yosemite, send that too.

 -A Dietz
Bellcore, Morristown


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #624, 04/26/91
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