HOMEBREW Digest #638 Thu 16 May 1991

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  gingered ale (Dick Dunn)
  Dutch Trappist Ales (DAVID)
  Un p'tit rien (Eric Rose)
  Grolsch bottles (Mahan_Stephen)
  homebrewers picnic (Stephen Russell)
  Black patent in wheat beers (mcnally)
  We wuz HAD!  A Cautionary Tale ... (Martin A. Lodahl)
  hops measurement question (Steve Bagley)
  Recipe Book (lutzen)
  Barm and Rye (BAUGHMANKR)
  Re: mead ferment times (HBD#637) (David Lim)
  Clarification (C.R. Saikley)
  Re: Archives out of date ("a.e.mossberg")
  Strange hoplike herbs (hersh)
  re re sanitation (Chip Hitchcock)
  Re: mead ferment times (Steve Dempsey)
  Honey Lager (kjohnson)
  Indiana Univ. & BEER ("Schnabel,Eric S")
  Miller's book (Norm Hardy)

Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com [Please do not send me requests for back issues] Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 15 May 91 02:19:36 MDT (Wed) From: ico.isc.com!rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: gingered ale hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu claims: > And a warning to all planning to attend the AHA conference. I am brewing up a > batch of my soon to be infamous Gingered Pale Ale (4 oz chopped ginger, 2oz > Eroica + some Sticklbract), talk about a beer with a bite. Look for it at the > AHA club night or the Wort Processors Courtesy Suite. Hmmm...have things gone so far downhill at the conference that a gingered ale is once again a threat? Especially with only 4 oz ginger, a mere pittance!...or was this only a 2-gallon batch?!? (In '84, our amber gingered ale took a first in Specialty. We used 9.5 oz ginger in 5 gal. Try it; you'll like it.) Seriously...I wish Jay the best, and I wish more people would try ginger for specialty beers. It's a wonderful addition. In particular, the combi- nation of a gingered, well-hopped pale ale with good Chinese food (Hunan/ Szechuan), or with barbecue, is a match made in heaven. --- Dick Dunn rcd at raven.eklektix.com -or- raven!rcd Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 MAY 91 12:54:47 BST From: GAINS at vax.lse.ac.uk Having recieved a *considerable* number of requests for recipes for Bishops Tipple and Old Peculier, I have decided to send the recipes and quoted method to HBD. This is quite a lengthy message and I apologise to those who have the book. For those who haven't, however, the details are: Brewing Beers like those you buy - David Line ISBN 0 900841 51 6 It is/was published in GB by The Standard Press (Andover) Ltd., South St, Andover, Hants, England and is an Amateur Winemaker publication. I don't think it has been released in the states. It contains *many* recipes for Lagers, Light Ales, Pale Ales, Keg Beers, Brown Ales, Stouts, Barley Wines and Strong Ales. Most beers included are British, although there is a section on Beers of the World, including Chimay, Pilsner Urquell, Grolsch etc. Best though, is the Real Ale section with *43* recipes - many of which are authentic, that is to say they have been adapted from the true recipe and techniques used by the brewery. I have brewed several of the Real Ales, and can verify in most cases that results are good, and occasionally better than the original:-) Most are all-grain brews. Old Peculier - Theakstons, Masham, N Yorks (Approx 6% Alcohol) 15 Litres of water treated for 'brown ale' brewing (although it is not a Brown Ale!) 2000g Dark malt extract 250g Crushed roast Barley 250g Crushed crystal malt 1000g Soft dark brown sugar 60g Fuggles hops (or extract) 5 Saccharin tablets 60g Brewers Yeast 100g Black treacle ;-) Boil extract, malt grains + hops in water for 45mins. Strain into bin and sparge the grain and hops with hot water. Dissolve sugar in hot water and add to bin. Top up to *25* litres with cold water. When at room temp, pitch in yeast and saccharin. Ferment until activity dies down and rack into secondary. Fit airlock. After 7 days rack into a barrel primed with treacle. After seven days conditioning it should be ready to sample:-) Bishops Tipple - Gibb Mew, Salisbury (OG 1066) 3500g Crushed pale malt 500g Crushed crystal malt 15g Crushed black malt 15 Litres of water treated for 'strong ale' brewing 5ml Irish moss 750g Golden syrup 60g Molasses 100g Goldings hops 5 Saccharin tablets 60g Brewers yeast 15g Gelatine 60g White Sugar (for priming) Raise water to 60C and stir in crushed malt. Stir continuously raise temp to 66C, retain at this temp for 1.5 hrs. Contain mashed grain in a grain bag to retrieve sweet :-) wort. Sparge grains with hot (~70C) water to collect 20 litres of extract. Boil extract with hops for 1.5 hrs. Dissolve molasses and sugar in some hot water and add during boil. Pitch Irish moss. Strain clear wort into bin and top up to *20* litres with cold water. When cool add yeast and saccharin. Ferment until sg 1020, rack into secondary, add gelatine, and fit airlock. After 10 days rack into primed barrel. Sample after 10 days. These are Lines recipes and method, not mine, and *should* be experimented with, for example to capture cold break or to replace unavailable ingredients. Suggested improvements would be welcomed. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has a go at these recipes, and will answer brief queries. Much arm-twisting would be required, though, if I am to release any more recipes. I am, however, compiling a recipe and method database and will send to anyone interested. Contributions of course are welcome. Finally I am glad to hear of your healthy loathing of American Bud. Ade [ Obvious disclaimer on above! ] Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 1991 8:08:21 EDT From: POORE at SCRI1.SCRI.FSU.EDU (DAVID) Subject: Dutch Trappist Ales I got some good advice on Beligian beers available in France to have my mother get for me this summer (thanks Martin!). However, no word on Dutch Trappist Ales. One of the Beer Hunter episodes had a bit about these brews and breweries which left me in a bad state: rolling around on the floor drooling. Most unattrative. Can any one help me out? What brand Dutch Trappist Ales (if any) would be available in Paris? Also, re: the cantilever cappers. I also ditched mine in favor of a bench capper. Broken bottles etc. The problem I had with it is that it wouldn't work on all bottle types (even with the adjustable collar) and it didn't mash the caps on completely. The bench capper works on everything and is much fast and safer. They can be had cheaply and easily by haunting a couple flea markets or garage sales. David Poore poore at gw.scri.fsu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 9:45:22 EDT From: Eric Rose <rose at aecom.yu.edu> Subject: Un p'tit rien For every wound, a balm For every sorrow, cheer For every storm, a calm For every thirst, a beer ----Kwoted in Geo. Herriman's "Krazy Kat" komic strip, 1918 - -- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 08:45:00 CST From: Mahan_Stephen at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil Subject: Grolsch bottles Lee Katman asked about the suitibility of Grolsch bottles. They work great. Check the gaskets before starting bottling and replace those that are questionable. I usually bottle using both 12 oz. (IBC root beer) and 16 oz. (Grolsch) bottles. The 12 oz. bottles are good for giveaways, as my family consumes enough root beer to keep up the supply. The Grolsch bottles are MINE. I can bottle in Grolsch by myself in one pass, running the bottle filler with one hand, and capping and filling the case with the other hand. Conventional capping usually needs a helper or two passes, putting caps on as I fill and then crimping after all bottles are filled. On the same topic: >I like to use the Grolsch re-sealable bottles for bottling. The are >16 ounces and they are re-sealable. Capping is a breeze! The problem >however, is getting them. Does anyone know where I could get a lot at >a reasonable price? I know I can get the gaskets, but the bottles? >Or similar ones? I found a German bar locally that saves them for me. I get about a case every week or two at no charge. I'm currently stocking up for myself and two or three brewing friends. Zymurgy usually has an ad from some people that sell Grolsch-like bottles (at an unknown price). They are: E.Z.Cap Bottle Distrubutors 4224 Chippewa Road N.W. Calgary, Alberta, Cananda T2L 1A3 phone: 403 282-5972 I see the Grolsch bottles occasionally at the flea markets in small quantities, but the asking price is around $1.00 per bottle. You could also make the sacrifice and buy and drink a few cases of Grolsch beer. steve mahan_stephen at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 11:49:19 EDT From: srussell at snoopy.msc.cornell.edu (Stephen Russell) Subject: homebrewers picnic Hi folks, For those of you in the Central or Western New York areas, there's a home- brewers' picnic in Trumansburg, NY, this Sunday from 1 to 4 pm. Trumansburg is about 10 miles NNW of Ithaca and not too far from Rochester, Syracuse, and Binghamton. Guests are requested to bring homebrew and/or a dish-to-pass, plus lawn chairs, a drinking glass, frisbees, musical instruments, children, small farm animals....wait a minute! There'll be some interesting homebrews, including Nettle Beer, various Belgian beers, plus fruit juice for the kids. Please e-mail directly to me for directions, srussell at snoopy.msc.cornell.edu Happy fermentations, Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 08:26:51 -0700 From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com Subject: Black patent in wheat beers I'm not a purist, so I have no moral indignation at putting black patent in a wheat beer. However, it is almost certainly not what German brewers do to make Dunkelweizenbier. More probably, they use a Vienna malt. Dunkelweizens are generally pretty sweet, with no tannic bite. One of the best dark wheat beers I've ever had was a Weizenbock called "Aventinus". I had it in Munich. It's produced by a brewer that's relatively big but unknown in the states; I don't remember the name. Aventinus is really a fabulous beer, and it's served in the niftiest weissbier glasses I've ever seen. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike McNally mcnally at wsl.dec.com Digital Equipment Corporation Western Software Lab Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 8:53:55 PDT From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM> Subject: We wuz HAD! A Cautionary Tale ... I'm passing on an experience our club had last night, to put you all on your guard against being duped as we were. The observations and opinions that follow are mine and mine alone, and don't necessarily represent those of even a single other member of my brewclub. And please forgive the length, but I believe this to be important. A long-time member (and local pub brewer) contacted another long-time member and past President (and M. D.) to give a talk to the club about responsible drinking and the effects of alcohol. So far, so good. Part of the talk was to be the ritual demonstration of getting a few "designated drunks" plastered, after assuring they wouldn't be driving, to demonstrate the effects of various levels of blood alcohol content. To provide a consistent means of testing this, and to "sharpen the point" of the demonstration, a representative of the California Highway Patrol was invited. I don't know who invited Channel 13 News. The lead story on the 11PM newscast was on DUI (it must have been a slow news day), the anchorperson fairly trembling with indignation and righteousness, and our club serving as unwitting shill for neoprohibitionist extremism in an amazingly crude form. Certainly none of us had ever imagined the footage would be used in this way. Fortunately, the name of the club was never mentioned, nor was anything said about its being a gathering of homebrewers; it's possible the "reporter" (who stood very much aloof, at the meeting) was unaware of the type of gathering the CHP officer was addressing. We are under attack, and must be very careful of the image we present, how we present it, and to whom. = Martin A. Lodahl Pacific*Bell Staff Analyst = = malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM Sacramento, CA 916.972.4821 = = If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, = = Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me! 8-) = Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 1991 09:29:29 PDT From: Steve Bagley <bagley at parc.xerox.com> Subject: hops measurement question Hi. I'm wondering about the difference between leaf and pellet hops. Is one type the "standard"? If a recipe says "2 oz. Cascade", which type are they referring to? Assuming that I can figure out which type they intended how much of the other type should I substitute? Thanks. - --Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 11:36:36 CDT From: lutzen at phys1.physics.umr.edu (lutzen) Subject: Recipe Book Are you tired of searching through the Homebrew Archives trying to find just the right recipe? Have you ever wanted to have a nicely formatted book of recipes from the Homebrew Archives? Well, then keep reading, because Mark Stevens and Karl Lutzen are proud to announce the release of their Homebrewing Recipe book, 'The Cat's Meow'. In it you will find a collection of recipes taken from the Homebrew Digest archives. After many hours of filtering through the archives, many more hours of editing, the book is now ready for public consumption. Rush right out via FTP to the homebrew archives, mthvax.cs.miami.edu, and change directories to homebrew/recipe-book. Here you will find the 15 parts of the book in compressed format. Please do not forget to set type binary before transferring the files! After the files in your machine and are uncompressed, you will have PostScript formatted files ready to go directly to your Laser printer. (Please note: A plain ascii version will be available upon an email request to Karl Lutzen at lutzen at apollo.physics.umr.edu. It should be ready in about 2 weeks). So rush right out and get your copy of 'The Cat's Meow' today! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 1991 11:49 EST From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU Subject: Barm and Rye Various and sundry comments: Dr. John: I always thought that 'barm' was the clean, 'hot', recently deposited yeast in the secondary. Florian: A cautionary note. I've been told to be wary of grains bought in feed stores. Being fit for animal consumption doesn't mean being FDA approved for human consumption. They have all sorts of fertilizers, chemicals, etc. floating around in the air in those warehouses for one thing. For another, they spray all sorts of fertilizers and chemicals on grains while they're growing. They may or may not clean them if they're destined for the grain hopper in a barn somewhere. There's no advantage to laying beer bottles on their side as I see it. It's necessary to keep corks damp in order to insure an air tight seal. The crimping of the crown around the upper neck of a bottle does the job for capped beer. Cheers! Kinney Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 11:08:38 MDT From: David Lim <limd at sulu.Colorado.EDU> Subject: Re: mead ferment times (HBD#637) Ken Johnson asks about mead fermentation times... Ah, the mysterious world of mead. I've made three batches of mead, and I've yet to discover what *really* makes them tick. The first batch was a plain still mead (no fruit or stuff.) I used a little acid blend (to get pH around 3.5) a little yeast nutrient (about 2/3 tsp for 5gal) and some Lalvin K-1 wine yeast. The K-1 yeast is one of the so-called "killer" strains which produces a substance (enzymes, i believe?) which kills off, or at least inhibits the growth of other competing micro-organisms. This batch took a few months to ferment from an OG of abut 1.100. It stalled at about two weeks at about 1.060. I added some more nutrient and some more yeast - this time a more attenuative strain of S. Bayanus made by Lalvin. I wasn't sure if this yeast would take hold since there was the K-1 killer yeast already in the fermenter. However, it did go to completion (about 1.002 on my hydrometer) in a few months. My guess at why it took so long to ferment was that I didn't aerate the mixture enough prior to pitching. My second batch, a raspberry mead, had only a slightly lower OG (1.090) and was aerated *thoroughly* prior to pitching. Same S. Bayanus yeast, no yeast nutrient or acid blend (I figure the raspberries would take care of this for me.) This batch had a very active fermentation - I had to attach a blow-off tube to the fermenter! This was *not* the classic lazy mead fermentation. The mead reached a final gravity of 1.000 in 1 1/2 weeks! It's still a beautiful deep red! Can't wait until it's a year or so old in the bottle. Moral of the story: Aerate the cooled honey mixture! I don't have enough experience to make real scientific claims, but if you don't supply enough oxygen for the yeast for the respiratory phase, it only makes sense that the classic slow, possibly stalled fermentation could result. It needs enough O2 to form a large enough population to handle all that food. Though aeration of a batch under fermentation is not a good thing (oxygen is bad after in the anaerobic phase of the yeast life cycle), I did it anyways with the first batch to see if I could kick start it. It did eventually go to completion and tastes fine. Not award-winning, but entirely enjoyable. Good Luck! -Dave Lim (limd at sulu.colorado.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 10:14:06 PDT From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley) Subject: Clarification From: "Dr. John" <JELJ at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu> >C.R. are you sure you want to put roasted barley where you have? Your chart >implies that roasted barley is roasted flaked barley, and interesting concept >but one which I have yet to encounter (all the roasted barley I've seen, and >bought has been whole corns). Perhaps the roasted barley should be on its own >branch? Sorry for the confusion. I didn't mean to imply that roasted barley was made from flaked barley, but that neither roasted or flaked barley went through the malting process. If roasted flaked barley sounds interesting, you could try roasting it yourself. It would probably be most suited to a stout. Dave Miller talks about roasting your own grains. He makes it sound very hard. The transcripts from the 1990 AHA conference contain another discussion about roasting grains. I think the talk was given by Randy Mosher. He makes it sound easy. CR Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 12:46:04 -0400 From: "a.e.mossberg" <aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu> Subject: Re: Archives out of date In list.homebrew you write: >Sorry to post this, but I got no response from -request. Maybe somebody can >answer this: I have received no letters from you. >Why has the archive not been updated since January? I want to delete >the digests I have saved but I won't do so until they show up in the >archive. I see that there are files called "9102.index", etc., but I >can't read them. All digests are available. The monthly digests have not been updated, true, but all of the individual ones from the last monthly digest are contained in ~ftp/pub/homebrew/incoming aem - -- aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu ....................................................... If you crumple your money into little balls, it will never stick together. - David Byrne Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 13:47:17 EDT From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Strange hoplike herbs Well recently I was judging the fruit/herb beer category at the Southern New England homebrewing competition. One of the beers was a chamomille/marigold beer brewed by the very noteworthy Ron Paige. I personally didn't like it cause of the marigold flavors, but it was a well brewed beer and many others liked it. Ron is part owner/operator of the brewers of Atlantic Amber, I think they're called the Connecticut Brewing Co. and are located in Norwalk Conn., though I'm not 100% sure of the breweries name. JaH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 13:50:52 EDT From: cjh at diaspar.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock) Subject: re re sanitation > If you are siphoning from the > secondary, it will take longer for the bacteria to get started, but if > you lager or age in the bottle for any length of time you *will* see an > infection. Nonsense! I have been tasting bottles from last Fall and last Spring, all siphoned by mouth-starting, and have had \\no// gushers---maybe your "any length of time" is over a year? The bacteria in your mouth aren't wimps, but they aren't guaranteed to get a foothold from the minimal contact of mouth-starting, especially in finished beer and/or if you avoid sucking the beer right into your mouth (I use a long enough tube that I can suck it about half full, then work the air out of the rest of it by gravity). You're right that it's not good to be casual about sanitation; you don't know when something's around that's going to be a problem, and it would be a shame to ruin a batch that's cost a lot of time. But there's a limit to how fanatical you want to be; if you use water to start your siphon, do you boil it? I sanitize everything (10-60 minutes in std bleach solution) and have had only one spoiled batch, which had two vulnerable periods: >3-day lag, probably from dead yeast (I repitched after ~2), and 1 day in closed racking bucket because I found after racking that the spring in my filler had been corroded by overexposure to bleach, and I couldn't replace it immediately (as a dex 3 I didn't even consider trying to bottle with a pinch siphon). Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 13:09:37 MST From: Steve Dempsey <steved at longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu> Subject: Re: mead ferment times In HBD #637 kjohnson at argon.berkeley.edu (Ken Johnson) writes: > I bought 15 lb of honey for 5 gal. It's been fermenting for about 5 > weeks right now. OG 1100 SG 1060 right now. If it will finish near 1000, > how long is this going to take before I can bottle? The yeast was Red Star > Champagne, and the ingredients were water and honey. Should I add some > yeast nutrient next time? Red Star Champagne is a pretty good yeast, highly attenuative. But 15 pounds should have put your OG well above 1.100, probably closer to 1.120. I have consistently had OG 1.100 using only 12 pounds, which usually works out to exactly one gallon of honey per 5 gallons of mead. Most champagne yeasts will attenuate about 100 SG points before the alcohol kills them. Using 15 pounds should finish above 1.000 in the medium-sweet range. What temperature is your primary? Unless you pitch a healthy quantity of yeast and ferment fairly warm, things can go fairly slowly. I know guys who do meads at 80F and complete primary in 7-10 days. Nutrients are important in meads because there's not much in honey except sucrose/dextrose. It's also very easy to overdo the nutrients and end up with an unpleasant, bitter chemical mess. I'm down to 2 tsp nutrient per five gallons and have gotten rid of the nutrient flavors. The aroma will come through in some of the drier meads but I'm working towards medium and sweet meads and this problem should work itself out. Unless you want to wait 6 months for this thing to attenuate, my advice would be to boil up 1 tsp nutrient in a cup of water throw it in. Activity should pick up for a while and maybe even complete. If it slows down again, another dose of 1/4 or 1/2 tsp nutrient may get it going once more. Or just relax and wait for it to finish on its own; as long as you can perceive that it is still active, it should be just fine (some day). -Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 12:30:38 -0700 From: kjohnson at gold.berkeley.edu Subject: Honey Lager I want to try making an all grain honey lager. I was just going to make a regular batch and add some honey. So what kind of malt/honey ratios work? For a five gal batch with a normal starting gravity of 1050, how much honey could I add? One, two, five pounds? I assume the fermentation will take a very long time. Any comments about honey beer experience very welcome. kj Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 23:09:12 cdt From: "Schnabel,Eric S" <SCHNABEE%GRIN1.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Subject: Indiana Univ. & BEER JUst finished some of YOUNG'S OLD NICKS and it is definately a winner. I was just thinking if anyone out their knows of some brew clubs and suppliers in the Bloomington Indiana area. I'm moving out within the next week and will be going to grad school for a while. If anybody has any info I'ld sure could use the help. Thanks, Eric Schnabee ps. are their brewpubs in the area?? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 May 91 21:45:01 PDT From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy) Subject: Miller's book Starting to brew in 1985 I read Papazian's book and was led by the hand by the wit and knowledge of the author. Even today the book is used as a reference for some of the charts on mashing or style recipes. I grew weary of the light-hearted banter, accentuated by similar recipes and articles in zymurgy. It seemed that Charlie was intent on keeping the extract makers in business and the *serious* homebrewers making mediocre beer. Still, I read the book and the articles. What attracted me to Miller's book was the attention to detail and the answers to many questions I had. I find Miller to be a little too serious at times and abit off at other times (like his stand on bleach for instance). But, by and large, I picked up MANY tips to improve my homebrewing, and they worked. At the same time that liquid yeasts became easily available, my brews took a quantum leap in quality. Now, being a bit jaded and a little burnt out, I brew less often (maybe once a month) but make the best beer yet. Miller's book was a definite step upward for me. Who wants to talk about Fix's book or Noonan's book? Is it true that Noonan now runs an ale brewery? Norm Hardy Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #638, 05/16/91 ************************************* -------
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