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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Saccharine in Old Peculiar like recipe. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Pilsner Urquell Recipe (Don McDaniel)
  Recipe Book, Mead, roasting grain (hersh)
  Malt Vinegar. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  leaf hops vs. pellets (Brian Bliss)
  stuff (Brian Bliss)
  Beer Image (Ron Rader)
  Canned Fruit (Teague_Joel)
  Wort Aerator Question (David Lim)
  re: various topics (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #638 (May 16, 1991) (Kent Forschmiedt)
  Re: hop question (florianb)
  several (florianb)
  Honey lager (cdp!uunet!inland.com!pals)
  Recipe book... (Gary Mason - I/V/S PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503  16-May-1991 2315)
  brewpub? (Pat Patterson)
  unsubscribe markj at amc.com (Mark Johns)


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Date: 16 May 91 06:49:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Saccharine in Old Peculiar like recipe.

I am most interested in trying the recipe that was posted for the Old 
Peculiar like brew.  I'd rather not use the saccharin tablets, though.  I 
assume they are to provide some non-fermantable sweetness to the beer.  I 
haven't been in brewing that long ... was crystal not available when that 
book was written?  Would, say a quarter pound of crystal malt be a good 
substitute for those saccharin tablets?

Dan Graham
Beer made with the Derry air, (Derry, New Hampshire).


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Date: Thu, 16 May 91 08:48:11 -0600
From: dinsdale at chtm.unm.edu (Don McDaniel)
Subject: Pilsner Urquell Recipe

I tried a Pilsner Urquell this winter (I called it Ersatz Urquell).
It was my first partial mash batch and was unquestionably the finest
brew I had made.  I then tried the same beer in extract form.  Again
fine results.  Unfortunately neither was an Urquell.  The hop 
character just wasn't there.  At the time I didn't know about the
gravity adjustment for high gravity boils and I had Saaz pellets of
questionable history.

The yeast I used produced a very clean, clear beer and I'd recommend
it highly.  It was the Wyeast Bohemian Pilsner yeast.  It you haven't
gotten into liquid yeast cultures yet, do it for this batch.  The
difference is tremendous.  I did a two-stage fermentation.  Primary,
secondary and bottle conditioning were all done at a steady 50 F
(that's where my cellar was during Dec and Jan).

Here's my extract recipe.  I just took Miller's partial mash and 
calculated how much dry malt extract would be needed to get the
OG of his recipe.  I've also adjusted the hop rate upward by 20%
for the gravity adjustment (I didn't account for that in my attempt).

4 lb. can Alexander's Pale malt extract syrup
2-1/3 lb. light dry malt extract
Saaz hops
   5 AAU 60 min boil
   5 AAU 30 min boil
   5 AAU 10 min boil
Wyeast 2007 Bohemian Pilsner yeast
OG ~1.050
FG ~1.010-1.008


I feel the key  to success here are:
1.  The lightest extract you can find
2.  Fresh hops or pellets packed in Nitrogen
    (onlyonly Saaz will do)  
3.  Liquid yeast fermented at a steady low temp.

Happy brewing.

Don McDaniel


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Date: Thu, 16 May 91 11:07:23 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Recipe Book, Mead, roasting grain


> We used 9.5 oz ginger in 5 gal.
Must have been that wimpy store bought ginger. Mine was dug fresh off the trail
and smuggled back from remote tropical Islands :-) :-)

1000 Humble Kudos to those brave souls involved, Mark Stevens and Karl Lutzen.

>My second batch, a raspberry mead,
How many raspberries?? I've made blueberry meads, and Strawberry Blueberry, and
Orange Cinammon, and Raspberry Cider, but it's always useful to get the 
amount (lbs or pints) per gallon from others to compare.


Oh yeah I've gotten a few responses on the Cider starters offer. I'm just
waiting for the last few stragglers before sending something out. Perhaps if
there is sufficient interest I can set up an alias and mailing list here for
cider, but I'll hold off on that for a while.

> Dave Miller talks about roasting your own grains
I think that's just a tendency Dave has in his writing style. I've roasted
grains myself before and it's not that difficult. There was some sort of chart
in a past issue of Zymurgy about temperatures and times for roasting your own
grains, I'll try to find the issue.

>Is it true that Noonan now runs an ale brewery?
Greg runs the Vermont Pub & Brewery located in Downtown Burlington, Vermont. 
A truly wonderful place, (well it helps that I'm friends with Greg having met
him at many a competition while he lived in Williamstown Mass, and I was just
over the border in Troy, NY.) with a nice atmosphere most of the time
(occasional the UVM college types over run the place and it gets a little like
a Frat party). The beers there are pretty good. I especially like the smoked
Porter that he's been making for a while. From what I understand he now has
someone else working for him doing most of the brewing, but on my last foray
there I couldn't notice the difference.

JaH


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Date: 16 May 91 10:59:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Malt Vinegar.

Well, I didn't get any ideas about how different beers make diff. malt 
vinegars, but a few people did want to know where they could get the 
mothers for making their own malt vinegar.
Several of the mail order homebrew suppliers carry vinegar mothers, they 
come in jars.  I called to check, and Alternative Beverage, 1 800 365-BREW 
has them in stock.  In fact, they have mothers for five different vinegars. 
I think they said the cost was $4.50 or something like that.

You can use the mother many, many times so the cost is minimal.  Making 
vinegar is a little stinky, so do it in the basement or attic, or anyplace 
that is well ventilated.  Vinegar likes about 85 degrees to work, and takes 
about three months to complete.  What happens is the bacteria in the mother 
are converting the alcohol to acetic acid.  You don't want more than about 
six percent alcohol at the most, so if you use a XXX stout for your malt 
vinegar, cut it with a little water.

Ah, will the practical uses for homebrew never end!

Dan
Beer made with the Derry air.



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Date: Thu, 16 May 91 11:29:01 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: leaf hops vs. pellets


>Hi.  I'm wondering about the difference between leaf and pellet hops.  Is
>one type the "standard"?  If a recipe says "2 oz. Cascade", which type are
>they referring to?  Assuming that I can figure out which type they intended
>how much of the other type should I substitute?

I've heard that 1oz. of leaf hops is equivalent to 1oz. of pellets,
and I've heard from other sources that leaf hops are up to 4 times
stronger, by weight.  Personally, I beleive that leaf hops are only
marginally stronger, when they are used as boiling hops.

I would use nothing but leaf hops for finishing, though.
If you add them right as you take the wort off the heat,
You can immediately sparge into cold water or remove them
by some other means, but the important thing is that their
aromatic qualities are immediately imparted to the wort
and that the wort is cooled immediately before they have
a chance to disappear.  Pelletized hops need to be boiled
at least a little in order to break them up; by this time
the aromatic qualities have degraded significantly.

In my last batch of stout, I added only 1/4 oz hallertauer leaf
hops for finishing, mainly because I wanted the leaf filter bed,
and could definitely taste the difference (even through
2 oz. of fresh, nearly overpowering, bullion leaf boiling hops.)

When I follow a recipie, I use the weight of hops is called for,
be it pellets, or more often, leaves.

bb

`.



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Date: Thu, 16 May 91 13:58:35 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: stuff


1) Thanks you very much Mark Stevens and Karl Lutzen for compiling
   "The Catus Meow".

2) > A cautionary note.  I've been told to be wary of grains bought in feed
   > stores.  Being fit for animal consumption doesn't mean being
   > FDA approved for human consumption.  They have all sorts of
   > fertilizers, chemicals, etc. floating around in the air in those
   > warehouses for one thing.  For another, they spray all sorts of
   > fertilizers and chemicals on grains while they're growing.  They may
   > or may not clean them if they're destined for the grain hopper in a
   > barn somewhere.

   After spending 3/4 of my life on a grain farm, I wouldn't have any
   qualms about using grain from the local elevator.  They handle the
   grain that goes to make your cornflakes, flour, corn chips, etc.,
   and you might as well but directly from them what you can instead
   of paying 5000% markup.  Any fertilizers or pesticides are applied
   sufficiently early in the growing season, with ample time for rain
   to wash the plant, and besides, the end product (seeds) have yet to
   form.  The only disadvantage of buying animal food is that there's
   no one to sue if something does get contaminated, which is just as
   likely with human food.


bb


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Date: Thu, 16 May 91 16:17:46 EDT
From: rlr at bbt.com (Ron Rader)
Subject: Beer Image

> We are under attack, and must be very careful of the image we present,
> how we present it, and to whom.
> 
> = If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
> = Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =

  Gimme that ol' time religion, indeed!

  No offense to Martin, I just found these two bits of his posting quite
amusing when read together.

- -- 
ron rader, jr  rlr at bbt.com OR ...!mcnc!bbt!rlr = Opinions are my own and do
| |  i gotta six-pack & nothing to do...       = not necessarily reflect those
 | | i gotta six-pack & i don't need you       = of BroadBand Tech. (SO THERE!)
  *** Punk ain't no religious cult, punk means thinking for yourself - DKs ***

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Date: Thu, 16 May 91 16:32:00 CST
From: Teague_Joel at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: Canned Fruit

I'm preparing to brew some cherry stout for consumption this Christmas 
season.  Since fresh cherries are hard to comeby in my area this time of 
the year, I thought I might try canned, unsweetened, pitted, sour 
cherries.  Stouffers, I believe, is the brand available at the local 
Food World.

Can anyone provide info on the use of canned cherries or other 
unsweetened canned fruit (rasberries, blue berries, etc) in their 
brew?

Thanks,

Joel








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Date: Thu, 16 May 91 15:47:32 MDT
From: David Lim <limd at sulu.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Wort Aerator Question

I recently read in a back issue of Zymurgy a aeration device based on 
a little pump which pumped air through an aeration "stone".  The
"stone" emitted air bubbles fine enough to efficiently aerate the
wort.  The test by someone on the Zymurgy staff concluded that this
gadget produced a better result (i.e. shorter lag time) than simply
shaking the fermenter to aerate. 

I presume the pump was an air pump for a fish aquarium, similarily the 
"bubbler-stone" (I don't know the proper name) came from the same
pet store.  There was also a filter in the hose between the output
of the pump and the stone.  This filter supposedly filtered out any
airborne contaminants before it reached the wort. 

Here's my questions:  What type of filter is this?  Is the claim of
filtering out any harmful airbornes valid?  If so where can I get one
of these filters? 

I have the pump and can easily buy a bubble stone.  I need to know if
the filter is for real.

Thanks!
 -Davin Lim (limd at sulu.colorado.edu)

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Date: Thu, 16 May 91 15:49:59 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: re: various topics

I had fallen behind in reading HBDs and did not want to comment
until I was sure that these topics had not been covered by others
in subsequent digests.  So here goes (sorry about this being
a bit late and that I've lost the original poster's names):

Bock - Yes, goat in German - originally brewed for consumption under
	the sign of Capricorn (Dec 22 - Jan 19) i.e. X-mas holidays.
	Beyond that, I don't know for sure:  I suspect that a similar
	style brewed for spring consumption gained the name Maibock.
	I second the praise for the German tradition of seasonal
	beers (although I'm not very fond of beers that lean too far
	on the malty side of hop/malt balance like the Oktoberfest style).

"the enzyme used by rice wine brewers for conversion" - I believe it's
	called "koji."

"3 or 5% soured beer in the fermenter [for more-authentic Guiness]"
	I'd just like to add "PASTEURIZED soured beer"

"It is optional whether to carbonate before or after fermentation."  -
	I suspect the author meant to say "before or after LAGERING."
	In other words, either you can prime+bottle (or keg) then lager
	or lager then prime+bottle (or keg).  I don't have enough
	experience in lagers to comment on which is better -- I would
	like to hear what others recommend.

"Did I wait too long to rack to the secondary?"  -  I contend that using
	a secondary is unnecessary for beers that ferment out in a week
	or two.  I used to transfer to a secondary after the krauesen
	fell (2-3 days at 65F) and then bottle after two or three weeks
	in the secondary.  I stopped using a secondary for ales quite
	a while ago and did not notice any change in flavor.  I did
	notice a decrease in infections, which may or may not be
	attributable to the one less racking.  The primary reason
	for using a secondary is to get the beer off the dead yeast
	before it begins autolysis (where the yeast cell walls begin
	to break down).  Although it is temperature and yeast-health
	dependent, I only go to a secondary after a week in the primary
	if I don't plan to keg or bottle within 6 weeks (lagers/high
	-gravity beers/scheduling conflicts).

Al.
korz at ihlpl.att.com


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Date: Thu, 16 May 91 14:54:59 PDT
From: kentfo at polari (Kent Forschmiedt)
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #638 (May 16, 1991)

> Date: Wed, 15 MAY 91 12:54:47 BST
> From: GAINS at vax.lse.ac.uk
> 
> Having recieved a *considerable* number of requests for recipes for
> Bishops Tipple and Old Peculier, I have decided to send the recipes
> and quoted method to HBD. This is quite a lengthy message and I
> apologise to those who have the book. For those who haven't,
> however, the details are:
> 
>     Brewing Beers like those you buy
>                    - David Line
>                      ISBN 0 900841 51 6

[ text of recipes elided ]

I am no expert in these matters, but isn't this a blatant violation
of copyright?  I mean, the whole point of selling the book is that
people have to buy it to get the recipes.  I believe that an apology
and perhaps some reparation is due Dave Line, not the readers of the
HBD who got free copies of unautorized excerpts from Line's book.

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Date: Thu, 16 May 91 12:55:53 PDT
From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com
Subject: Re: hop question

Steve Bagley asks:

>Hi.  I'm wondering about the difference between leaf and pellet hops.  Is
>one type the "standard"?  If a recipe says "2 oz. Cascade", which type are
>they referring to?  Assuming that I can figure out which type they intended
>how much of the other type should I substitute?

There is no such thing as leaf hops.  You are referring to "loose" hops, 
which are the pressed cone flowers.  Pellet hops are cone flowers that
have been munched up and compressed into pellet form.  The use of either
is determined (as far as I can tell) by individual brewer preference.
Pellet hops are easier to deal with since they won't plug up your
transfer tube, and for this reason, some people swear by them.  Others
swear at them, claiming that fresh cone hops are the only way to go.\
Some of the European hops are only available in pellet form, for obvious
reasons.  The issue on which to use has been settled by two famous
brewers, but their conversation takes place in the restaurant at the
end of the universe.  So unless you have time travel or can wait 6 
billion years, you will have to decide for yourself which is better.

Substitute amounts by alpha equivalent content.  For example, if you
have on hand both types, and both have the same alpha acid percentage,
then substitute equivalent weights.  If the two types have different
alpha acid percentage, then substitute amounts by taking the product
of the weight and the alpha acid percentage.

...And hey!  Enjoy yourself! -- Welcome to the neighborhood, Steve!

florian


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Date: Thu, 16 May 91 13:09:04 PDT
From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com
Subject: several


First, "Thanks" and a tip of the hat to Mark Stevens and Karl Lutzen
for their work in compiling the recipes and making the work 
available to us!

Second, Kinney warns me:

>A cautionary note.  I've been told to be wary of grains bought in feed
>stores.  Being fit for animal consumption doesn't mean being
>FDA approved for human consumption.  They have all sorts of
>fertilizers, chemicals, etc. floating around in the air in those
>warehouses for one thing.  For another, they spray all sorts of
>fertilizers and chemicals on grains while they're growing.  They may
>or may not clean them if they're destined for the grain hopper in a
>barn somewhere.

yes, I agree.  But I was unable to find whole rye anywhere else.
We have only one or two very poorly stocked health food stores
in Central Oregon (where?).  I haven't given up trying to find the
rye elsewhere.  Funny that triticale is in the grocery store, but
rye isn't.

While we are on the subject of alternate grains, let me (how can
you stop me?) talk about corn.  I have been using corn in lager
for a while now.  It produces a cleaner, clearer, dryer lager, and
this is just fine for making pilsener.  I was using corn out
of the feed store for a long time, but this year I grew and dried
my own.  I simply planted an overabundance of sweet corn, and left
some on the stalks about 4 months into the winter.  Then, I picked
the mature, dried ears, hulled it, and stored it in a plastic bag.
Before brewing, I measure out the grain, grind it in my Corona mill
and gelatinize it.  The gelatinizing is done the day before brewing
in a large kettle.  I use 1.5 gallons water to 1 pound cracked corn
and boil it 1-1.5 hours.  The next day, I add this porridge to the
usual mash.  For the specific application of pilsener, I am really
pleased with the outcome.

florian


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Date: Thu, 16 May 91 12:17:27 CST
From: hplabs!cdp!uunet!inland.com!pals
Subject: Honey lager

In HBD #638, kjohnson writes:

>I want to try making an all grain honey lager.  I was just going to make a
>regular batch and add some honey.  So what kind of malt/honey ratios work?
>For a five gal batch with a normal starting gravity of 1050, how much honey
>could I add?  One, two, five pounds?  I assume the fermentation will take a
>very long time.  Any comments about honey beer experience very welcome.

There aren't any hard and fast rules.  Papazian suggests that to retain
"beer character" you add honey in amounts less than 30%.  That figure is by
weight in an extract beer - for your 1050 OG that would be a bit less
than 2 pounds of honey.  That would produce a fairly potent beer - I would
guess in the 6-7% alcohol by volume range.  I prefer to use only enough
malt for an OG of about 1040 (or less), and about a pound of honey.  The
honey produces a pleasant dryness in the beer.  Yes, the fermentations get
quite extended - 3-4 weeks for a honey ale at 65F, and of course longer
for a lager feremented cold.

Randy Pals
pals at inland.com


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Date: Thu, 16 May 91 23:19:25 -0400
From: mason at habs11.ENET.DEC.COM (Gary Mason - I/V/S PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503 16-May-1991 2315)
Subject: Recipe book...

I tried for the recipe book, but received only a "$" for my trouble.  I used
the form :
		SEND RECIPE-BOOK FROM HOMEBREW
Any suggestions?

Thanks...Gary

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Date: Thu, 16 May 91 23:28:00 -0400
From: patterso at gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Pat Patterson)
Subject: brewpub?

Does anyone know of a brewpub in the Memphis (Tennessee) area?
Thanks!

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Date: Thu, 16 May 91 08:24:25 PDT
From: markj at amc.com (Mark Johns)
Subject: unsubscribe markj at amc.com

unsubscribe markj at amc.com


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #639, 05/17/91
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